Today was a good day in Hawai'i

[ellisonz]

Last edited Wed Apr 8, 2015, 02:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Tonight I celebrate the power of aloha (humanity) and doing what is pono (right) in our democracy. Hawai'i Governor David Ige has called for a one week "timeout" in order to "engage in further conversations with the various stakeholders that have an interest in Mauna Kea and its sacredness and its importance in scientific research and discovery going forward.” Governor Ige has heard the challenge to the "significant" Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) on Mauna Kea and this is a start, although the fight is far from finished.

Governor Ige has also relented and put forth a qualified nominee to be Chairman of the Board of Land and Natural Resources and Director of the Department of Land and Natural Resources. This follows his withdrawal of his nomination of development lobbyist Carleton Ching who could only speak of pieces of dirt and saw the Governor interrupt him to answer questions for him. The new nominee is the Director of The Nature Conservancy in Hawaii. I look forward to what Ms. Suzanne Case has to say about the invaluable environmental, historic, and cultural resources of the islands of Hawai'i.

If you do not believe that you have a voice, consider that petitions of just 8,500 against Carleton Ching and 18,000 in just a few days did to show our politicians that "business as usual" is not good enough in Hawai'i. The writing is on the wall, Hawai'i is not for sale or despoilment to the first or highest bidder. If someone tells you that your signature, email, or phone call doesn't matter, that what is aloha and what is pono does not matter, consider what happened today.

Aloha!

Hawaii Governor Calls ‘Timeout’ on Mauna Kea Telescope Construction
As protests intensify, Ige wants to pause for a week to talk with the stakeholders.

APRIL 7, 2015
By NATHAN EAGLE

Construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope atop Mauna Kea is on hold for at least a week as protests over the $1.4 billion project continue to mount.

Hawaii Gov. David Ige told reporters Tuesday that there will be a “timeout” to facilitate a dialogue.

“It’s a significant project and this will give us some time to engage in further conversations with the various stakeholders that have an interest in Mauna Kea and its sacredness and its importance in scientific research and discovery going forward,” he said.

---

The summit of the dormant Big Island volcano has become the site of protests — and 31 arrests last week — as Native Hawaiian and environmental groups fight to protect the location, already home to 13 telescopes. The 18-story-tall TMT would be the biggest yet and nine times more powerful.

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/hawaii-governor-calls-timeout-on-mauna-kea-telescope-construction/

Please read the letter and sign, Stop TMT Construction and Arrests of Mauna Kea Protectors https://www.change.org/p/governor-david-y-ige-stop-tmt-construction-and-arrests-of-mauna-kea-protectors

Ige Taps Nature Conservancy’s Case to Head State Land Department
Hawaii governor's nomination comes three weeks after rescinding his appointment of Castle & Cooke lobbyist Carleton Ching.

APRIL 7, 2015
By NATHAN EAGLE

Hawaii Gov. David Ige has appointed Suzanne Case to head the state Department of Land and Natural Resources, ending weeks of speculation.

The governor withdrew his previous nominee, Carleton Ching, three weeks ago amid mounting public opposition over his ties to developers and lack of experience for a job that requires leading a department comprised of 10 divisions and nearly 900 employees.

The Senate must confirm the appointment. With Ching, it became clear that the support wasn’t there and the appointment was rescinded moments before lawmakers were set to vote March 18.

----

Ching was a longtime lobbyist for land development companies, most recently Castle & Cooke, whereas Case has spent the past 14 years as director of The Nature Conservancy Hawaii, a leading environmental nonprofit that has worked to protect more than 200,000 acres statewide.

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/ige-taps-case-to-head-state-land-department/

More background:

Mauna Kea:

Arrests: http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28709851/protesters-arrested-blocking-road-to-giant-telescope-site
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28719978/a-day-after-arrests-mauna-kea-telescope-protest-grows
Legal: http://kahea.org/issues/sacred-summits/legal-protections
Environment: http://www.malamamaunakea.org/environment/environmental-factors

Carleton Ching:

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/03/gov-ige-withdraws-carleton-ching-nomination/
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/03/tough-questions-for-ching-and-some-rough-answers/
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/01/environmentalists-criticize-hawaii-gov-iges-land-board-nominee/

big - to those who signed: https://www.change.org/p/governor-david-y-ige-stop-tmt-construction-and-arrests-of-mauna-kea-protectors

and

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/do-not-confirm-developer.fb47?source=c.fb&r_by=1621974

We're not done yet, but tonight I can

[NYC_SKP]

1. I think that the great island nation of Hawai'i deserves self-determination.

As useful to science a 30-meter telescope may be, I do not believe that this should trump the will of the people, if that will is to prevent its installation.

Sometimes we just need to say to science, "No, thank you anyway".

Nice work, friend!

[ellisonz]

4. I would settle for something more expansive than the Akaka Bill.

My biggest complaint with it is the deferral of negotiations over land transfers. I do not believe the State of Hawaii can or should end. If there is to be a Hawaiian political entity, I favor it to be built upon the Hawaiian Homes Lands and conservation lands. The least we could do to strengthen a renewed Hawaiian political entity by providing them with the trust of the "ceded" lands.

"No, thank you, come up with something better"

We should not put science ahead of humanity. That is lead to some very tragic mistakes in the past.

Thank you

[pinboy3niner]

2. I miss you, brother

Wish we could be together again doing another demo or protest. I really enjoyed being with you on that Justice for Trayvon protest in L.A.

[ellisonz]

3. I miss you too!

That was not a good day, if you know what I mean. Sending you a PM.

[longship]

5. Luddites!

Would you tear down the world's greatest astronomical observatory for a volcano god?

Oh physics! Save me from metaphysics.
Attributed to Isaac Newton

And yup. Newton believed in god. But he well knew the value and benefits and products of the scientific method.

For Christ sakes, the observatory has been on the Mauna Kea summit since the 1960's. Only now there are demonstrations to stop it? The world's most advanced astronomical observatory?

These protests are decades too late. Even if they happened in the 60's they would still be based on abject ignorance.

Again. It is the world's most advanced observational astronomical observatory! (There's a near duplicate in the Southern Hemisphere in the high Andes. One needs two to cover the whole sky.)

Some people would tear it all down for a volcano god. I have a better idea. Let's not. Let us celebrate what we've learned by making it even better.

Build the Thirty Meter Telescope where it can see amazing things and Hawaii can stay at the cutting edge of science instead of stooping to blinkered ignorance of volcano gods.

And yes, preserve the environment the best one can while one does it. It is not like there will be a huge human footprint up there above 4,000 meters once it's complete. For Christ sakes, the scopes are operated remotely since people have a tendency to pass out at that altitude without supplemental oxygen. The workers who have to work there have such oxygen available just in case. It is anything but a Hawaiian paradise. Which makes it a perfect site for the world's best astronomical observatory.

Congratulations Hawaii. Ignorance won today. We'll put you on the list with Kansas, Indiana, Texas, Florida, Louisiana, and Arkansas, among others.

What's next? Forbidding astronomy classes in favor of volcano god theory?

[Hekate]

7. Pele is the goddess of the volcano, not a god. There is a goddess of the snows, Poli'ahu.

I will not waste my time reiterating my comments and information from the other thread, since you obviously did not read them.

I will close with this observation, however: many in that first thread have made a "god" of Science, and have put human concerns far beneath that "god."

[CBGLuthier]

8. 'god' of science is a hell of a lot better than all the imaginary ones

Fuck it. I proudly declare my allegiance to my personal lord and savior science and any who deny her are ignorant fools.

[longship]

13. The extent to which those human concerns invoke Pele...

Or Jahveh, or Allah, or whatever deity one might choose, is the extent to which I do not know how to dialog with you.

To invoke Pele as opposition to the world's best astronomical observatory is, as I have stated, a non-starter.

These telescopes, the best in the world, see no Pele, no Jahveh, no Allah, not even a Cthulhu. What they do is enrich our knowledge of our universe, which one can consider as our metaphorical back yard. They are big science like the LHC in Geneva, recently restarted. Like the Cassini probe which has been orbiting the Saturn system for years and gives us pictures like this:

(If you look closely you can even see the Earth in that pic.)

But it is not just pretty pictures that make this science worth what we spend on it, although I might argue the the Hubble pictures alone are worth all the Shuttle repair missions and much more. There is real science being done.

The telescopes on Mauna Kea were used to discover Dark Energy, that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. No other observatory could have done that. It resulted in a very quick Nobel Prize, somewhat rare in physics.

These are the kinds of things that a world class observatory like on Mauna Kea and the Atacama desert in the Andes can accomplish.

Another fairly recent Nobel prize was for the invention of the Charged-Coupled device, the visual detector used in every single digital camera. There's one in my iPhone with which I am keying this post. Nobody uses film cameras anymore. The CCD was invented not for common cameras, but for astronomical measurements. It was a revolution in instrumentation that has trickled down into nearly every household, certainly every one with a modern cell phone. And it won a Nobel Prize! Because of astronomy. And its impact on all of us.

The Thirty Meter Telescope is going to cut new ground. It is far larger than anything built before. More important, it will also have technology which was unheard of when the already very large telescopes on the summit of Mauna Kea saw first light. These advancements will also eventually find uses for more prosaic purposes. Just like Apollo. The technological paybacks are often multiples of the expenditures. Unlike Reagan, this is the real trickle down economics. Only investments like these can so easily accomplish these things. Cutting edge, one of a kind designs with the latest new science to back it up, put into practice, to actually build something that actually works. Only big science can do these kind of things. And the technology trickles down to all of us. The World Wide Web was invented at CERN, the home of the LHC, for presenting the data from the previous collider in that same 27 km circular tunnel. Again, big science produces great stuff. Now a large proportion of the world's economy is done on the Web.

And on the summit of Mauna Kea they do really BIG science. And some folks who worship a volcano god say "no". Why would they think that Pele would not want to look deeply into the heavens? Why would they think that Pele wants people to remain ignorant about the most profound questions in the universe?

As Giordano Bruno reportedly said in the latter part of the 16th century on a similar topic, "Your god is too small!" BTW, they burned him at the stake. (Not that I think that will happen here, but to put things bluntly there does seem to be some equally appalling ignorance in this opposition.)

My best to you. I hope I've made my position clear.

[Hekate]

6. I'm happy for you, Ellison. After fighting my way through your first thread...

....I finally decided it was important enough to counter the arrogance of cultural heritage ignorance, that I signed the petition for you, and my real name is on the page.

Pomaika'i

[freshwest]

9. Good day for democracy and progressive values. Thanks for the update, ellisonz. n/t

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. Beng against science is a progressive value? n/t

[freshwest]

20. Giving a week to discuss how to work around the problem with heavy metal leaks from the site.

That is using science against power and the religious meme is not what this is really about, despite some gloaming onto it to disparage what is actually a scientific movement to rethink the project.

I did not say what you claim me to have said, I feel like I will be asked if I was ever a member of the Communist Party next. I support the democratic method of all voices being heard. The Nature Conservancy is against the scope of this project which changed it from what the past use of the land has been. There is a lake at the top of this allegedly lifeless mountain top which will be lost and stop supplying water to those who need it downstream.

I recall reading at DU about how natives downstream of what were newly built resorts in Mexico were denied water to keep the golf courses looking green. They needed water for farming, fishing and drinking. No one listened. That's not progressive, it's fascist. It's not mumbo jumbo. It's a fact. It's happening around the world. It is wrong and destructive in the long term. It's possible that science does not support all aspects of the siting in Hawaii.

I find myself a bit put off by the name calling and innuendos tossed about in these threads as sloganeering without pursuit of facts. And the facts are there, and demonstrable according to the scientific method, if one looks at all the links.

Some have jumped the gun as to what this is really about. The progressive nature of the laws of Hawaii are being employed in this matter, are what is being challenged and not supported here, which I find disappointing.

No one in the links is supporting medieval religion, Luddites, voodoo or going against science or the law, which is now taking precedence in fact finding for a week, maybe more. The world will not come to an end with that process, nor if TNT is not accomplished as soon as some would desire it to be.

I am pretty surprised at the lack of respect toward native people I see in these threads. They are willing to work it out, they just want to be heard and have their needs protected. The name calling sounds like colonists telling natives to STHU, since they are smarter and more technologically advanced. I do believe science is essential to our survival, so it should have been employed to take all the effects of the siting into account.

STHU doesn't work well with me, unless the group involved like the Tea Party has a proven record of hateful utterances that do no good. This group of Hawaiians deserve to be heard, that is all they are asking for. I don't believe the appeal to religion was ever what this was about, so I don't buy that argument either.

Indigenous people around the globe are sick and tired of being treated like ignorant savages by those who for centuries have assumed they are better than them. We may not understand how they express themselves. But they are not stupid. I also believe that it is time for the dominant members of society, in such matters as the POV of POC, to STHU and listen and learn what they don't know if they are progressive.

Dismissing the concerns of women and minorities are not progressive values. I believe the voices of the natives in Hawaii, just like in the Americas, must be heard. They must be worked with as equal member of the human race if they are not killing or hurting others, not run roughshod over. And these protesters are hurting nothing but a state of pride, and not even hurting the cause of law or science.

EOM.

[Hekate]

22. Thank you for the excellent summation, freshwest.

I've been sickened by the dismissive arrogance and ignorance masquerading as enlightened science and progressive politics here at DU.

[freshwest]

25. It's more the 'science' of the entitled than science, Hekate. The 1% always has fierce defenders.

Last edited Thu Apr 9, 2015, 04:10 AM - Edit history (1)

Anyone who follows this story out, finds there is more going on here than religion.

But that's the usual whipping post, and just as unthinking as the condemning from the rightwing religionists. Both sides can play that game, and they do.

Always reminds of the Monty Python scene where a priest makes the sign of the cross in front of their eyes to not see something they don't want to see. It's comical, resisting something as evil, when you don't know what the facts are.

To me, it's just privilege rearing its ugly head again, lack of a sense of humor and imagining how the other person sees us. I've read native american stories of how they thought Europeans were deluded, frightened and lost children, full of noise but no wisdom. And they still are when they dismiss without facts or knowledge anything that goes against the rulers.

Because, the natives said, they were broken into pieces years ago, and that is all they have left to protect them. And it's crashing down around their ears.

If not going with the herd, out comes the name calling. Which reminds me of another thing I don't care for, how Tea Partiers and Libertarians not only insist you worship their heroes, but that you must praise them with great enthusiasm, to prove you are 'one of them,' or you are the repository of all evil things and the enemy.

I am a secularist, for science and humanity and life. Some are just for power. To that I say:

Meh!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

27. I didn't claim you said anything

and your hyperbole regarding next being asked if you're a Communist is just that, hyperbole.

[LanternWaste]

28. Much as is claiming one is "against science" merely for advocating additional dialog...

"is just that, hyperbole..."

Much as is claiming one is "against science" merely for advocating additional dialog... though I do realize the convenience of holding others to higher standards than we hold ourselves to.

(insert distinction without a difference below to maintain creative pretense)

[SickOfTheOnePct]

29. I'll stand by my opinion that being against science is not a progressive value

and you can stand by implication that it is.

[linuxman]

10. Stone age mysticism beats a stab at scientific and human advancement.

Oh well, at least the volcano god is happy.

Good job folks. No, really. Thanks.

If there's intelligent life out there, I hope they aren't watching.

[Bosonic]

11. I hope in the future this superstitous nonsense is restricted to Earth

First nutcase who declares a sacred whatever on the Moon/Mars returned to Earth ASAP.

[Fumesucker]

12. The flat Earthers win

Astronomy is the oldest science, the science in fact that Eratosthenes 2,200 years ago used to discover the world is round, today the people of Hawaii have indicated they prefer the world to remain flat.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. K&R

And hoping for a positive resolution.

I think there is a problem with folks understanding the subtle dynamic of cultures who interweave the world around them (nature) into their daily lives and practices, missing both the symbolic and practical reasons behind doing such. So many European cultures thrive on fighting and cursing nature where others tried to work with it - in many cases reaching the same result of "conquering" a need in what could be considered "innovative" ways. But fortunately this is starting to change as scientists are discovering not only the beauty of nature, but the practical adaptations of it to advance knowledge and develop products that are beneficial.

I have been running SETI for 16 years non-stop on my computers (and now tablets and phones too), and I understand the issues of astronomer time-sharing on the various types of tele & radioscopes around the world, however it seems to be the "easy way out" to keep building more of the same type of tech without considering the possibility of achieving a similar goal in a different way.

[mahina]

15. Cheers Ellisonz!

Aloha no.

[ellisonz]

23. Cheers mahina!

Aloha

[Hekate]

16. Another kick

[ellisonz]

17. Statement from Protect Mauna Kea

For Immediate Release
Contact Kealoha Pisciotta ([e-mail])
April 7 Response to Governor Ige’s announcement of a construction stand down
Mauna Kea Protectors (3:30 p.m.)

We applaud Governor Ige for stepping forward to take some kind of action in this crisis.

His call for a one-week halt to TMT’s construction is a victory for the Mauna Kea Protectors, clear evidence that he recognizes the worldwide groundswell of public support we have for halting further desecration of our sacred mountain. Mahalo, Governor Ige.
However, it is not enough to pause for a week. We need a commitment from the Governor or TMT to stop the desecration until our legal appeals can work their way through the courts to the State Supreme Court.

We’re grateful for the Governor’s action, but this welcome pause does not mean we’re standing down from our vigil of protection, during which so many people have had an opportunity to experience first-hand and from afar the deepest meanings of aloha and the power of peaceful expressions of protest against injustice and environmental disregard.

Many Hawaiians participating in the Merrie Monarch Festival are coming up the mountain with pain in their hearts, so our continued presence for them is essential.

Until there is a commitment from TMT and its international partners to stop their desecration of Mauna Kea, we will stand strong on the mountain to defend it. We are discouraged by the Canadian Prime Minister’s action yesterday to commit his nation’s funds to this lawless project and the desecration of our sacred mountain, and only days after Native Hawaiians were arrested for protecting their mountain. Shame on him!

We also continue to hold our vigil for our brothers and sisters who were arrested last week and who face criminal prosecution unless the Governor or the County Prosecutor drop these unjust and legally dubious charges.

Our Deepest Aloha and Mahalo again go out to all the people across the planet who have expressed their support for our mountain and our cause!
‪#‎protectmaunakea‬

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Protect-Mauna-Kea/138435822892206?fref=nf

[SidDithers]

18. Pandering to superstitious rubes...

Awesome.

Sid

[Zorra]

21. Well done! I'm seriously considering moving to the Kona area

within the next few years.

[ellisonz]

24. We just all have to keep it up.

Last edited Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:05 AM - Edit history (1)

I think this is the most active period of environmentalism in the state in sometime. People are starting to see the stakes.

Aloha!

[bananas]

26. Congratulations! nt