Jesus fuck, can we lay off the torture and agony fantasies already? (Tsarnaev)

[NuclearDem]

I truly can't believe I'm reading this shit here.

[marym625]

1. I have no idea what you are talking about

But I bet I agree

[Chemisse]

2. Are people drooling over the idea of Tsarnaev suffering?

If so, I heartily agree with you.

I am glad he is facing very severe consequences for his actions. But I don't take pleasure from his suffering. We should leave hatred and vengeance to the Republicans. They're good at that.

[NuclearDem]

4. This post really applies to most discussions here about prison.

"Death's too good for him."

"Stick him in a tiny cell for the rest of his life."

"Stick him in general population and let nature take its course."

I've just had enough of this shit.

[freshwest]

5. I didn't see them, probably already in my 'not you again' section of my ignore list.

I'm not sure what cesspool spews comments about how someone is going to get 'prison raped because they don't like rapists' BS. I doubt they can't make friends with other rapists and killers.

I believe in keeping society safe from sociopathic killers and rapists, but that's all. I'm only paying for them to be stopped from doing their crimes. Again. And again. And again.

That's all I want and it's appropriate, not torture. I don't think any of the comments you list are appropriate, but didn't see them and don't want you to link them as it's not proper in this forum. I've seen much worse.

The juries won't do anything about it. This issue has been hashed over and over again. They don't get the point. Such posts don't reflect well on DU, but would go just fine at Freeperville. Not a very good standard.

Just put their happy asses on Ignore and enjoy DU. Even Skinner once said he has some people on Ignore.

EOM.

[KingCharlemagne]

11. Do you believe rehabilitation is sometimes possible also? I like to think that

I'm paying to segregate criminals from the general public but also that I am paying to try to rehabilitate them. Bush and Cheney, of course, are beyond hope.

[freshwest]

12. Rehabilitation has worked in Scandinavia. But they are committed to a whole social solution, not

just in the prison system. Some people are hard wired to not give a damn who they hurt They are only concerned about themselves. That fits some politicans and individuals.

Having seen the damage done to victims of such crimes as the raping young children, the lack of empathy is simply not there and cannot be taught or talked out of doing it again. They can't be rehabilitated and will commit the same offenses again.

Some were victims who turned into perpertrators. Some, and these are the really disturbing ones, were not victims but enjoyed the thrill or the profit in some cases from what they did. I don't want them on the street.

Their victims carry a life sentence and are hard wired to not be able to cope or manage productive relations with anyone, some of them. Only 'lucky' ones, if someone who has had their minds broken can ever be thought to be 'lucky,' get costly, long-term, staffed professional help.

Others become shut ins, never get to achieve anything in life, or in the most severe cases I've seen, are institutionalized because they have lost their minds altogether. I won't go into details, as it's not my right to tell them. I've just seen too much and this has to be stopped.

I don't see an particularly liberal or humane to stop it except for long terms of incarceration. I've had the discussions of rehabilitation and my hopes for some with a number of legal and professional persons. After one discussion with a very caring attorney, she finally said to me, 'Not all people can be helped. Some are simply broken beyond repair.'

It was a very sobering thought. and against my more idealist thinking that 'anyone' can be changed. Some don't want to change, some can't. It may be for no fault of their own. But they will not stop what they are doing to the innocent. And they should be the ones protected first, to prevent more destruction of lives.

I'm sure that's not the answer you want to hear, as most people here want B&W solutions. I have not seen that. I have seen people that were beaten, starved, gang raped and video taped their crimes while held that way for a long time. In one case, the only way to prosecute them was to nab the one for child pornography posted on line where they arranged for more people to come and rape the child they held.

The rest all got off because the child could not testify in court. I have known this victim for twenty years now and their life is a living hell even with the best help that could be given. That life was stolen. The one who put the images on line will be out of prison soon, if not already. The victim and family are terrrified this individual or their pals might get at this person again.

Tell me what you think of all those men who are living free and walking the streets involved with them, who are likely doing the same thing today, and not going to be prosecutted. I realized these are extreme cases I am talking about, but I guarantee you, no rape victim sees rape as a mistake, like that judge in CA claimed the man that raped the three year old girl, just because she was there, so no big deal, ya know?

You want to rehabilitate that guy or the judge? Do you think the little girl will forget? Or do you want to make sure he never gets out?

Like I said, if this was Scandinavia with its social system, I'd have hopes. But not here. And there are too many wounded no one ever hears about. They are often not in the news. But there are people who have to clean up after all of this, and they and the victims never get a day in court, no one talks about their rights. I'm not the same person I was at one time, before I learned all this agony. There are a lot of blighted lives and it seems few people care, it's as if they don't exist, because they have no power.

[KingCharlemagne]

13. I think I may have missed the subtext of your reply to which I was responding where

you mentioned 'sociopathic killers and rapists.' My understanding is that Anti-Social Personality Disorder (whether sociopathic or psychopathic) is currently untreatable. That is, there is no cure. So a criminal who is a sociopath or psychopath also by definition cannot be rehabilitated. (I'm agreeing with your post #12.) Those prisoners can only be segregated from the general population so that they cannot commit their crimes again.

Your post is a great one and really deserves to be its own OP, imo, for its passionate advocacy of victims' rights.

FWIW, I have not been following super closely the story of the Judge who reduced the sentence of the rapist who raped the 3-year old. Have there been any new developments? I do not think pedophiles can be 'rehabilitated,' as I understand the term, since pedophilia, like ASPD, is currently 'untreatable.' But I'm a layperson and no expert and so shall defer to your experience and relative expertise.

[jonno99]

33. RE: the 3 yr-old rapist sentencing: IMHO, the judge's reasoning is very disturbing...

"Judge M. Marc Kelly told an Orange County jury that 20-year-old Kevin Jonas Rojano-Nieto 'did not intend to harm' the three-year-old girl he raped at his family home in June. The judge said that he was sure that although Rojano-Nieto sodomized the girl and covered her mouth so she couldn't scream out, 'there was no violence or callous disregard for the victim's well-being'."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3030419/Judge-REDUCES-prison-sentence-man-raped-3-year-old-covering-mouth-didn-t-intend-harm-her.html

[Orsino]

26. Yes.

We are human.

It's because these ugly impulses are so nearly universal that we have had to make laws protecting the rights of the accused and convicted.

What weirds me out the most is the emotional investment some of the torture fetishists seem to have with cases unconnected to them--but different strokes and all. Venting these fantasies on DU makes us look barbaric, IMO, but it beats lynch mobs, I guess.

[Warpy]

3. Tsarnaev is going to spend years processing this stuff

and the pain he will suffer as he realizes he was played by a crazy, controlling older brother and the realization that he will never have a life outside prison will be worse than prison, itself. It should be enough to satisfy even the most vengeful.

Face it, many of our fellow humans are still primitive, eye-for-an-eye type creatures who only think in terms of hitting back.

[sendero]

10. Assuming the "controlling older brother"....

... idea has some basis in fact and is not just simply the only card the defense had to play, people have free will. If he chose to follow his brother into killing and maiming innocent people that's on him and no one else.

[Warpy]

23. Life is so simple for legalists

How would you have fared if your parents had left you at the age of 16 in a foreign country in the care of a brother who was sinking into insanity?

Not any better, I think.

[sendero]

28. i'm going to go out on a limb...

.... and say point blank I would not have killed anyone. I didn't exactly have a fairy-tale childhood but i manage to know right from wrong at least on that level.

I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt and in rehabilitation. But there has to be a line somewhere. Setting off a bomb in a public place, well I'm pretty sure it crosses the line. Other than flat out insanity of the sort where you don't know right from wrong, there is no defense here and even his lawyers figured that out.

By all accounts this kid was seen to be as well adjusted, was popular and fit in with his peers well. He had everything to live for and HE chose to toss it.

[aikoaiko]

16. Or he could become the hero of radical jihadists in prison and spend his days wishing he killed more

There is no reason to assume he will be remorseful.

[Katashi_itto]

6. Make him watch in his cell Brady Bunch reruns 24/7

[aikoaiko]

17. Barney and Friends, Teletubbies, and Loveboat.

So much to choose from

[romanic]

7. I don't have fantasies regarding his punishment.

But whatever happens to him in prison is karma for the hundreds of people who suffered at his (and his brother's) hands. I don't feel sorry for him, only the innocent people he and his brother hurt and killed.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. Being against torturing prisoners does not mean "feeling sorry" for someone.

This appears to be where people are getting confused. It means one is human.

[sammythecat]

21. This kind of reaction is so tiresome.

If you want to state your position on something it seems necessary to always include every single thing you do NOT mean. If you don't, there's always some idiot that's going to say "Oh, you don't like such and such, therefore you must really love this and that." Same with anything to do with animal welfare. If you have a heart for animals, you must hate starving children. Like I said...tiresome.

[brooklynite]

9. What fantasies would those be?

I've stated the type of incarceration I think is appropriate; nothing more.

[cwydro]

15. Well, it's very possible he'll be sentenced to die.

Then these posters so worried about this creep's well-being can relax.

[Rex]

14. Jesus fuck? Is that a new rock band?

You might want to trash those threads.

[cwydro]

18. I know. I never alert, and I'm not religious.

But I found that a bit over the top. Surely other expletives can be found?

[randome]

31. My personal favorite is 'God fuck it!' (Trademarked).

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[demmiblue]

19. K&R

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. "Do you know why people like violence? ...

It is because it feels good. Humans find violence deeply satisfying. But remove the satisfaction, and the act becomes... hollow."

-Alan Turing from The Imitation Game

[jonno99]

29. Yep - he nailed it...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

30. imo, one of the best lines in the whole movie (and that is saying something)

because that movie has some great lines.

I don't know if Alan said it in real life or if it is poetic license but, whoever. Nailed it.

[cwydro]

22. Can you link to these "fantasies"?

I've only seen posters express satisfaction that this killer will be locked up.

As he should be.

[NuclearDem]

25. You've already replied to one three or four times.

[NCTraveler]

24. As a society we gain nothing from blood lust.

Did we gain at the blood lust of his? The answer is pretty simple. How would we benefit in any way from attempting to exact some form of revenge? To those looking to punish, there will never be an equitable outcome for your blood lust.

[Comrade Grumpy]

27. We are a punisher culture. Even progressives like to get their righteous rage on.

It gets positively rabid sometimes.

[NaturalHigh]

32. I don't know what you mean.

This is the first Tsarnaev thread I've clicked on. I did read a headline that said Tsarnaev had been convicted. Life without parole seems appropriate and pretty much inevitable.