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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHillary Clinton can not beat Jeb Bush
The fundamental problem is that the ordinary citizen can not relate to Hillary Clinton. On the other hand ordinary citizens can relate to Jeb Bush as he was popular as governor in the state of Florida. If people underestimate Jeb Bush they are in for a rude awakening.
babylonsister
(171,059 posts)You don't think they can relate to another woman who has worked tirelessly for their best interests?
I think you're wrong. And don't forget his idiotic brother whom everyone will connect him to.
xmas74
(29,674 posts)have spoken about nothing but, often in hushed tones. They're excited about her running. One woman I work with came in to work this morning and said she was at the courthouse, registering to vote. She'd never registered before and this was enough to make her do so. She said she can't wait until next year when she can cast a vote during the primaries.
(The hushed tones? A number of the men we work with have mouthed her nonstop, saying every rotten thing imaginable. We've learned to tune them out over the years and this was no different.)
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)She wasn't running for president.
And Palin also wasn't the first woman to run as a VP candidate either.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)then she would get a vote.
i imagine clinton is more inline with their political leanings, dont you? seeing how excited they are voting for her.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)That's my point.
The only time this female coworker had any interest in voting in any election in this country is when a woman is running for president? But then you claim that it must have absolutely nothing to do with the fact Hillary is a woman? Even though you do not know this co-worker personally.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)she is voting. as a matter of fact, there is no mention that it is cause it is a woman, but cause it is hillary she is excited about. you do the "only a woman" crap.
further, it is like media doing the kerry election
anyone but bush, bullshit.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)if a black person wants to vote for the first black man running for office.... fuggin good for him. he deserves. and if women want to vote for the first woman running for pres, then fuggin' good for them.
it is about damn time with white men having the starring role to this point of time.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Why not find a true progressive woman that doesn't vote for trillion+ dollar wars and the military industrial complex? Why not find a progressive woman that doesn't favor destroying the labor market with more H1B visas that corporations don't need? Why not find a progressive woman who truly cares about labor and the middle class. But we have to put all this aside and vote based on genitalia?
If you want to play that kind of game and vote for people based on skin color and what they have between their legs? It's your vote to do what you want. That's your business. But what a candidate believes in and supports is a bit more important to me. That's what matters to me, personally. I want to vote for people who are going to move this country forward in the right direction and favor progressive ideals and policies. And I don't give a damn what their skin color or gender is. That's not my concern when I listen to candidates talk. Maybe that's just because I'm a "privileged white male." But I vote based on what's important for the country, for everybody.
I'm not going to put aside my beliefs in everything just so we can say "we finally have a female president." Why? Because I know it will happen eventually anyway. It's inevitable that a woman will be president. It's not like Hillary will be the only female candidate ever again.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)as is race issues. and hillary being elected certainly falls into that category, whether i support her or not, i am not too stupid to not recognize that fact.
and yes....
that is exactly what it is. the start of finding a solution is recognizing the problem.
have the last word
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)I just saying there are several things I don't agree with her on. If a more progressive candidate enters the race, that is where my vote is going.
The most qualified candidate doesn't always win. Otherwise Hillary and McCain would have beaten Obama.
graegoyle
(532 posts)xmas74
(29,674 posts)and feel that she will fight for them, compared to what else is out there and what else might be out there.
I think that's all that needs to be said.
babylonsister
(171,059 posts)Maybe the women want the neanderthals to chill out?!
xmas74
(29,674 posts)The woman finally registering yesterday? She's a grandmother. She actually said (and I quote) "I thought Roe v Wade ended this shit. At least she'll protect my granddaughter's rights."
(The conversation was about the young woman who was denied a prescription from Walmart to bring on her miscarriage. She said she'd had two miscarriages when she was young and that if a med could have helped instead of her D&C she gladly would have taken it and someone denying someone else a prescription made her angry. She also said that, though she didn't believe in abortion for herself she remembers the back alley days and doesn't want a return.)
She likes her for other reasons: she knows her, she felt that she and Bill had a good partnership and feels as though that would continue with her in office, she feels that she would be more likely to protect minority rights and she made comments about the Supreme Court. She also referred to her still new grandmother status, saying she thought that they were good parents and seem to be wonderful grandparents. (In other words, she's found something in common with them.)
onehandle
(51,122 posts)People really admire the brother of a war criminal who either can't fill out a form, or simply lies on them.
Thank you for your 'concern.'
cali
(114,904 posts)krawhitham
(4,644 posts)dsc
(52,160 posts)this outfit has Strickland up by nearly double digits, Toomey up by about the same. Neither of those are even remotely likely. This firm has some real problems. The average of polls has her up by a consistent amount.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Jeb Bush is going to clean our clocks, and then eat our lunch (He is having peanut butter and jelly sandwiches today, with a tiny box of raisins!)
Once Jeb gets in the race, we are fucking DOOMED!
DUH DUH DU- DUHHHHHHHH!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I mean, be prepared for THOUSANDS of these to be published in the coming weeks, because, yanno, she's just like us.
.
.
.
.
cali
(114,904 posts)She's a fuck of a lot easier to relate to than Jeb.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)never knew when Bill & Hill would show at a park or historic site.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)You're not going to have a beer with any President, ever. They aren't your friends. We are electing someone to run the country.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)stupid.
especially the dry drunk he is, there is no way i would want a beer with him. betcha gotta tippy toe around his drunk.
emulatorloo
(44,120 posts)She's been working on children's issues and has been an strong advocate for a long time.
Vomit all you like, it doesn't reflect well on you though.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Did she do anything to help American childrens' parents recover from the jobs that NAFTA sent over the border?
No, she didn't.
She does what she does to promote herself.
It's a sad sad thing.
Unless you want Jeb to win. Then Brilliant!
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Your prophecies will be given all the credibility they in fact, warrant.
Thousands! he proclaims righteously. Thousands of pictures. Just. Like. This.
The horror... the horror.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)graegoyle
(532 posts)Never before has a candidate had pictures taken in the presence of other humans.
They usually just use stock photos from web sites.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)I hope she does.
But I do feel like posters are acting as if her Presidency is a done deal stupid!
Thom Hartmann said yesterday this is going to be a tough election and a nail biter. I believe him.
cali
(114,904 posts)to flatly state that she can't. And guess what? The polls I've seen, have her BEATING him in Florida.
And I don't think he's so easy for "ordinary people" to relate to.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_bush_vs_clinton-3827.html
your post is just silly. put away the crystal ball. It's all smudgy.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)[url=http://www.servimg.com/view/11715825/1482][img][/img][/url]
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)You're new around here, aren't you?
mcar
(42,307 posts)You couldn't be more wrong. Jeb has the "to the manor born" aura down pat. You really have no idea what you are talking about.
But thanks for letting us know what today's anti-Hillary meme is.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)I have a ton of my coworkers that love Jeb because (and this is their statements), he comes off as personable and friendly. I too think Hillary would have an uphill climb against him.
Just because you live in Florida doesnt mean you get to speak for the entire state.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)in the same manner.
mcar
(42,307 posts)The OP was speaking for the entire electorate. I was responding in kind.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)Whats the insistance that everyone see the world through your perspective?
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)Scott is the polar opposite of Bush as not even Republicans like him. Scott won again simply because people didn't like Crist, so it is not like people all of sudden have a glowing opinion of Scott.
underpants
(182,788 posts)They mostly know the caricature of her painted by the media and her under constant attack when Bill was President.
Jeb has to do a complete "I am NOT my brother" introduction of himself.
Bill in any picture with Hillary is a giant plus but the campaign has to be careful that he doesn't take all of the air out of the room.
Blue_Adept
(6,399 posts)He has to do that to the general public, but to conservatives he has to show he's much more to the right than his brother, many of whom felt he really didn't follow through on core conservative principles as his time in office went on.
underpants
(182,788 posts)I can't see anyone other Christie who has any shot in a general election that would be able to survive the primaries.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)xmas74
(29,674 posts)Personally, I liked her, though she is often painted as the enemy by the media. She was obviously intelligent and I thought she seemed personable. (Of course, compared to Bill few are as warm and endearing. He really did take all the oxygen out of the room.)
She's stuck in my head all these years now as a positive so she must have done something right when a seventeen year old from a hick town in Missouri shook her hand.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)I will give it all the consideration it is due.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)brooklynite
(94,520 posts)The trendline of this chart clearly shows that Bush will knock her out...sometime in 2018.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)mwooldri
(10,303 posts)Hillary Clinton doesn't have a close relative who while as President allowed a terrorist attack to happen on US soil, sent thousands of soldiers to Iraq to fight a senseless war and tanked the US economy in his last year of office.
In this case, Jeb Bush is completely unbeatable.
In the real world... Hillary is electable. We do need enough "shy Republicans" to vote Democratic though.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Nobody else we nominate would threaten 50/50 against Jeb.
I hope the GOP screws up and nominates somebody else. In that case, I would be very confident in Hillary's chances.
Right now I would expect Hillary to lose a very tight race if Jeb is the opponent, and to defeat anyone else. It all depends on Obama's approval rating in 2016 and the right track/wrong track percentage. If those improve, Hillary can defeat Jeb narrowly.
We screwed up when we nominated Obama above Hillary in 2008. If you reverse that order, Hillary would have destroyed anyone in 2008 and 2012 and now Obama would be still immensely popular and poised to follow Hillary. In open races after one party has held the White House for exactly two terms, charisma and popularity are generally very important. That didn't fully apply to 2008 because Bush was so unpopular, following Iraq and Katrina. Anybody we nominated would have cruised. Fast forward 8 years and now we are in need of personal popularity. Obama would fit better than Hillary, who has polarized opinions dating more than 20 years.
Granted, it would have been difficult to apply strategy that far ahead and along those lines, but that's the way it worked out.
still_one
(92,187 posts)one of his shinning moments.
He is against abortion, same sex marriage, opposes a legal requirement to hire women and minorities, believes in keeping god in the public sphere, opposes the ACA expansion, wants to privatize social security, wants vouchers for school choice, opposes 'rights' to clean air and water, absolute right to gun ownership, opposes higher taxes on the wealthy, favors more military spending, supported his brother's Iraq invasion, and is against the Obama's administration negotiation with Iran, opposes incentives for green energy, does not believe in global warming, etc. etc. etc.
ordinary citizens do not relate to the bush family at all. However, many unfortunately relate to rand paul
vankuria
(904 posts)still_one
(92,187 posts)Stardust
(3,894 posts)still_one
(92,187 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)President Obama.. who is @ 50% now.
Thanks for all the info on the FL bush, still one
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)EL34x4
(2,003 posts)And believe he would be soundly defeated by Hillary Clinton.
Ted Cruz, on the other hand, will rout Clinton in a 535-3 landslide victory!
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)EL34x4
(2,003 posts)They think Ted Cruz is the second coming of Ronald Reagan and everyone else better get out of the way. I'm surprised RimJob hasn't started banning the Cruz naysayers yet.
Cruz threads are reserved to fawning over Cruz's invincibility. Walker, Paul and Rubio threads are reserved to fawning over Cruz's invincibility.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I don't think the Romney zotting fiasco went over all that well last time around. All it did was lose potention donors and alientated them badley enough they wouldn't be returning. I think Rim Job will be protecting his bottom line this time around.....but I could be wrong, stupid is as stupid does.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)My reading there suggest that a Walker candidacy could be dangerous. Like McCain or Romney, he's seen by the general populace as someone who's more or less respectable, not a loonie, but unlike either of them he has cred with the loonies as well.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Idiots....
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I miss getting mirt notifications.
I am joining up next term.
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)I'm sure everyone will give it all the attention it's due 18 months out from an election where neither candidate has won the nomination yet.
2naSalit
(86,579 posts)sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)It can be so fitting sometimes.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)Thankyouthankyouthankyou!!!!!
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)the look on her face is fantastic.
calimary
(81,238 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)it's the only gif that fits a situation.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)First, Hillary Clinton could beat Jeb Bush. Likewise, Jeb could beat her. Both outcomes are possible.
Second, if Jeb were to win, it would be for two reasons: [1] most importantly, the republican machine; and [2] the failure of a Clinton campaign to convince enough voters that it is in their best interests to vote for Hillary Clinton.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Calm and reasonable and open minded.
Anyway....
Jeb vs Hillary will be +$2billion vs +$2billion, from more or less the same donors. It might be seen as win-win, or lose-lose, depending on what side of the $$ divide you stand on.
But which candidate/party would win?
First thing I think of: the more or less thoughtless Republican voter wouldn't see the 18 month $4billion smoke and mirror show as odd, or distasteful. These are jackasses who think that American Enterprise Institute "tea party" astroturf is "grass roots", even while they stand in the shade of the bus they rode in on. They can't even feel their nose rings. Democrats and Independents, even third-way democrats, know that e.g. OWS, however disorganized and disjoint (perhaps in part *because* of that), is truly grass roots action. A +$2billion campaign, marketed like some "gets your laundry cleaner than the second leading brand" soap, will be hard for a lot of Dems and Inds to swallow, given who's paying for it. Most everybody understands the concept of an IOU and that when the money is that big the dues will have to be paid. To Wall St., to war profiteers, to the scum of the earth.
Second thing I think of: Anyone who identifies as "left" or "progressive" remembers being treated like shit by the third-way and their supporters (remember "fucking retards"?). Never listened to, ideas dismissed before hitting "the table", before even being voiced, all in a spirit of so-called "bipartisanship" that profits the wealthy. There seems to be NO attempt to explain/justify/defend recent history -- the ascension of the bankers, of the %.01 (TPP etc), or the PNAC war that started with Afghanistan, moved to Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen,... and which the new war resolution being promoted would extend indefinitely, arbitrarily, forever. Third-way has been openly hostile to "the left" on these major fronts, and this is true of third-way supporters at DU as well as elsewhere, and taking $2billion from the banks and %.01 to promote yourself as in "you're Everyday Americans and it's your time... to vote for Me!" does nothing to address the problem that this has created. How many times has a third-way supporter, now a Hillary supporter, said that their team doesn't need or even want "the left"? Well, just look at how third-way, on DU, has rolled out the Hillary campaign, with the one unifying mantra "haha, we have the money, the money is needed to win, and the left will never have the bankers/war-profiteers money".
Third thing I think of: both #1 and #2 above provide the total opposite of the "hope and change (for the better)" consciousness that drove Pres. Obama to victory. Jeb, on the other hand, has no such problem. Jeb's problem will be the opposite, will be convincing the diehard Republican voter that he's a big enough asshole - an even bigger asshole than his brother and father. Which isn't such an immense problem for Jeb to overcome. What I'm saying here is that in Hillary vs Jeb, $2billion each on a perfectly level Wall St. and war profiteer funded playing field, Jeb's route is already slicked whereas Hillary has GOTV problems. Unfortunately, Hillary chose this particular $$$ defined playing field and it defines her as much as it does Jeb.
Fourth thing I think of: gender and, secondarily, LGBT issues. Hillary has an advantage here, not because she's a woman, but because she's a Dem. IMO she's not the strongest voice on either (I think just about any solid progressive Dem would be a stronger voice). But I can't say... I'm ignorant. I recall defending Bill Clinton during the "sex scandals", more or less saying "c'mon, Bill Clinton is a total improvement on that demented warmongering Ronald Reagan, and Republican operatives are cooking these scandals up, offering rewards...", whereas none of the women in my family were having any of that. The women in my family, every one of them, looked at me with disdain for my dismissive apologetic attitude. They didn't like it, they didn't think it made for a good role model, they didn't like how Hillary was spinning it, it contradicted everything they believed in.
get the red out
(13,462 posts)The Bush name is a lot worse than the Clinton name in this country.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)femmocrat
(28,394 posts)Not sure who these "ordinary citizens" are, but the bushes are not particularly relatable either! I'm not sure if I will support Hillary in the primaries until I see if anyone else declares. However, I think she is more "likable" than any of the bushes.
Women seem to prefer her and who are more "ordinary" than women?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)riversedge
(70,204 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)You're joking, right?
I can't "relate" to any member of either of America's Royal Families.
I have earn my way through life.
PoutrageFatigue
(416 posts)...there is no way that ANOTHER bush gets elected...
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Bill can bring them cocktails on the beach and chimpy can be there building sand castles
blm
(113,052 posts)Are you sure about who Jeb Bush is, or are you just trying to be funny?
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Will get anywhere close to the turnout Obama got.
So while she may poll better, when it comes to motivating people to actually get out and go to the polls, I think that's where she'll show her weakness.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)of my concerns with any Dem. Obama got huge AA turnout in my swing state (PA). No one will get that this time around. I think that women will not support Hillary to the extent that Obama got black support. Jebber is just a wild card at this point, so who knows. I know that the people I know who are Republican can't wait to vote for the smart, sane Bush.
Beyond who could win, which it's too early to tell, the thought of Bush 3.0 vs Clinton 2.0 is just too depressing for words. This country is running on empty.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Silver spoon mentality, governed as a bully. Not really the whole "I feel your pain" type of person.
Jeb's popularity in my state remains a mystery to me to date, although I suspect much of it came from the whole "Smarter Bush" image that was bestowed on him in contrast to his brother. But the man was truly a putrid governor who did a lot of harm to Florida and very little good.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)I consider Jeb to be more dangerous than his brother.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)The thing is, he's not that much smarter, but he does look a lot smarter, and that's good enough to fool a lot of people.
H2O Man
(73,537 posts)1939
(1,683 posts)While we may have severe policy disagreements with Jeb Bush on how a state should be run, he was a very effective governor administratively and did carry through his agenda. The man is far more competent than his brother and will be a tough opponent. Give the devil his due.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)And there's much more than that, but just take that as a starting point to counter any claim that Jeb Bush was supposedly an "effective administrator."
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)finance,
supreme crt
corp greed.
nsa, torture
i think it was that time. caused a lot fo destruction. hence the obama win.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)no one other than the OP has rec'ced it and even folks who don't like Hillary are refuting the idea she can't beat Jeb.
In comparison to the normal hate that comes with a Hillary OP, this is actually progress.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)sexist misogynist crapola on this site, since he arrived...
I am truly amazed he still has an account.. but that's not for me to decide.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Wait until the batshit insane republican clown car occupants start debating!
Hillary will be the sole voice of reason in this campaign. If jebby wants the teabag nomination, he will have to go hard right.
It ain't going to work in the general. And Hillary is extremely popular in this country contrary to what the teahaddists on the right and the purists on the left think.
trumad
(41,692 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)Jeb Bush is only slightly more relatable than Mitt Romney.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)of DU getting sold caught more folks than this idiocy did, and I stated the forum would now be moderated by the Kindom of Saudi Arabia.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)And 'ordinary citizens' can really relate to someone who is the son of one president, brother of another, and used his position as governor to help shove his brother into the White House?
Hillary may have lived in the White House; but at least she wasn't practically born into it!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)honest about that issue foremost in presenting this statement. yes. you would have a problem voting for a woman. i get it.
what is it you labeled yourself? herbavore? where you no longer have any interest in women cause you do not like their behavior?
this info has been freely given by you to du. you are not bothered, what you say about yourself. i am just trying to remember exactly what it was you stated.
lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)And just that may be enough to bring them out to vote against
another one no matter who the Democratic candidate is.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and lookie who you are.
well really. that is fun. pure joy. i am thrilled with the cooties. i guess that is where we are going, so soon, into her run.
spanone
(135,830 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)the cootie game. i remember that. love cooties. thank you.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)And when fried, have sort of a nutty flavor.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Hillary Clinton is polling about 20 points higher than she was around this time eight years ago, even though the polls pit her against strong candidates who probably wont run, like Elizabeth Warren.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/upshot/huge-head-start-for-clinton-but-the-big-race-is-far-from-won.html?rref=upshot&abt=0002&abg=0
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)...and I mean, among candidates who will actually be running.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)I mean, if all democrats hold their noses and vote for him, as has been suggested with Hillary,
you can add many repukes who will vote for him as well.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)The average Democratic voter (as well as the average Republican and Independent voter) don't frequent political blogs to find who who they need to suck up and support. They need to find the choice attractive, which in part requires the candidate to offer a compelling campaign message. Other than the fact that Chafee was opposed to IWR (for which I see no sign that the average voter -- again, not political bloggers -- cares about), how does he raised the multiple hundreds of millions of dollars to get his message out?
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Unless Hillary declares that there will be none.
Which wouldn't surprise me.
brooklynite
(94,520 posts)Politics must be fun if you can just keep making things up to be outrages about.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Or am I only remembering what I want to?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)rurallib
(62,411 posts)Jebby has many skeletons in his closet as do all the clowns in the clown car.
This election may be so brutal and ugly that many Americans will stay away sadly. This may hurt Dems.
Ugly and brutal is a republican strategy to suppress the vote.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)President Obama stabilized the country but it should be Hillary Clinton to become the catalyst of change in our country.
-Harmony Blue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6105656
any other candidate would crumble up against Jeb Bush. Most Floridians know what Jeb Bush is capable of but many have always underestimated him.
Hillary is also the one that can make changes on the world stage because she is respected worldwide.
-Harmony Blue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6109651
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)thank you.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and.... lol, since my mind does not go in this direction, too funny when brought to my attention. ya. post 140. interesting.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)...a ton of crooked voting supervisors. Yeah, I live in Florida and I don't put anything past these criminals.
I hope your nightmare doesn't come true. I'd have to put up with Jeb AND pRick Scott.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)That's the Lee Mercer Jr way of saying I'm voting against Jeb Bush, no matter what.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The rest of your premise, however, is not true.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)Hillary is hugely popular with a large segment of the population. Then there are those that may not be 'in love with her' (for lack of a better term) but like her politics. Hillary absolutely can beat Jeb.
If your only reason if that he was a popular gov, she was a popular first lady, presidential candidate, popular SoS, and private citizen. No, I think you're wrong.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)The son of a millionaire Republican can relate better to ordinary people than the woman who didn't even own a home until 2000?
Where do you live? My mother lived in West Palm Beach for years and So. FL is my second home. Jeb was not that popular and Hillary beats both him and Rubio in recent FL polls.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)am i off? i am not in florida.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Democtrats don't want him and conservatives think he's a RINO.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)But it does to those of us who see what a mess Florida is in. That would make me vote no bush thank you.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)But I'm not sure that Jeb gets the GOP nomination. I think Walker from Wisconsin has an excellent chance at it.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Interesting how you turned on a dime after claiming to be a Clinton suporter.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)who was undefeatable, right?
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)voting, but your assessment couldnt be more wrong.
Dont take my word for it, take almost any informed observer.
ann---
(1,933 posts)and a goper - that's reason enough for ME not to vote for him.
WillTwain
(1,489 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)What fucking planet do you come from?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)There certainly are a lot of people who pretend to know what the "ordinary citizen" can or cannot relate to. For their part though, they studiously supply objective sources to support the editorial allegation.
The objective and unbiased evidence you provided for us for example, was stunning in its depth.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)(This isn't the old who-would-you-rather-have-a-beer-with dumbness, is it?)
Vinca
(50,269 posts)People may not be jumping up and down over Hillary, but most remember the Bush years less fondly than the Bill Clinton years.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)If this election does wind up to be between Clinton and Bush we need to find a way to get Ross Perot Jr. to run as an independent.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Not if that Hillary can beat Jeb Bush but if her and her legend of supporters can browbeat True Progressives into supporting her, without a proper Primary. Somehow, someway I believe that will be the overriding question.
The other candidates are coming. Just because Hillary has declared first, the fight for the Democratic Primary Nomination is FAR FROM OVER in April 2015. The Browbeaters would be wise to remember that.....and a bit of history that was made in 2008, where the candidate of inevitability lost. Wonder what that candidate's name was, by the way....
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Support who you want in the primaries, vote for who ever you want in the general election. If Hillary is the nominee, by all means vote for someone else in the general if you don't like her.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Perhaps not by you, but there definitely is. The worse thing about it is all the possible Democratic Candidates for the Nomination have not declared their candidacy yet, however many want to force other to make a decision to back Hillary without a proper Primary Contest. That is disturbing.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)during clinton two positions, and we were so many fucked during bush two term.
for the uninformed, ..... they are gonna point to clinton, remembering when.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Have Floridians suddenly decided they love JEB?
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/florida/release-detail?ReleaseID=2037
Clinton tops several possible Republican candidates in Florida:
49 - 41 percent over Bush;
The most recent poll, taken after Hillary's email kerfuffle, put the two candidates within the poll's margin of error: a statistical tie.
So even in the state where they know him the best, the voters don't prefer him over HRC.
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2015/3/31/quinnipiac_poll_clin.html
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)William769
(55,146 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Dam that logo!
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Predicting the results of the WORLD SERIES? The season hasn't started yet.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)so only one DUer fell for "people can relate to the son of a president, the grandson of a senator with dubious dealings with the Nazis, and the great grandson of the guy who put up the money for the Walker Cup in golf. Plus another rich banker".
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and he still won't be ready to debate Sec. Clinton.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)They'll both go on Telemundo speaking fluent Spanish. Their families are diverse looking. If one were to formulate the perfect families to capture the Latino vote, you couldn't find a better mix. Rubio's wife is the all-American cheerleader (she was for the Dolphins), and Jeb's wife is actually from Mexico. She looks very AmerIndian. Jeb is a known Hispanophile, and that isn't a derogatory term. He really does seem to love Hispanic cultures. Rubio will tempt the Cuban community from Florida with the immigrant success story. He likes gangster rap.
This will piss off many anti-immigrant Republicans. But if Jeb should make it past the primary, which I'm hoping won't happen, Houston we have a problem. The usual strategies won't work against them.
Not to mention they are both from Florida. Throw in FL and the Hispanic vote, and we are in deep trouble. How are we going to counter that? As far as I can tell, none of our candidates speak fluent Spanish.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)Against the Constitution
nitpicker
(7,153 posts)Snopes explains (see above) that if there is a same-state ticket, THAT state's electors can only vote for one of the two. ((I note they can't have the second vote go to another party's candidate if that third person is also of the same state.))
There are, however, practical difficulties to this. Snopes points out it would not matter too much if it was a NV-NV ticket, as all that would be abandoned for the second person would be NV's electoral votes. However, the Bush/Cheney ticket ((once decided on)) had to have Cheney switch his residency back from TX to WY to not lose TX's electoral vote for that part of the ticket ((and thus have a Bush/Lieberman term)).
That is why it is virtually certain that there will not be a Jeb/Rubio ticket, nor a Clinton/Gillebrand one.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)But if Jeb Bush is the Republican nominee he can definitely pull California, Georgia, Texas, Alabama and Florida. New York would be a toss up.
Jeb Bush is the one that has been a big proponent for pro life especially with the "choose life" license plates that I see everywhere in Florida. The vast majority of this support comes from women in the pro life movement.
Bush being fluent in Spanish will definitely help him relate with a lot of Americans but also add much needed change of pace for the Republican party. I am afraid people don't understand or don't know much about Jeb Bush and they think it will be an easy victory for the Democratic party. Hillary is the best currently but I am not sure her best can beat Jeb Bush.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)As for NY Hillary beats Bush by nearly thirty points:
59 - 31 percent over Paul, compared to 61 - 26 percent in December
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/new-york-state/release-detail?ReleaseID=2179
*except for GA which WJC carried in 1992 in a three man race where he got a plurality...
We shall see about FL...Bush shouldn't be fighting for his home state.
P.S. Bush is trailing Hillary 71-26% among Hispanics:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jeb-bush-trails-hillary-clinton-hispanics-polls-show/story?id=30123472
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And probably only win older and more conservative Latino voters.
I think Hillary paired with Castro would be hard to beat!
libodem
(19,288 posts)Expect lying, cheating, and thieving to be the order of the day.
I think they have every intention of vote rigging, role purging, and electronic vote machine tampering.
They don't fight fairly. It's not popularity.
Although there is wicked irrational hatred instilled in certain redneck hillbilly factions, to be intensely opposed, to anything Clinton. The extremely ignorant are already convinced.
Conservative brains are wired to be shocked and disgusted by ordinary human behavior. They excuse mistakes for themselves and condemn others for the same behavior. They wont play fair. And they just think you are stupid for trying to play fairly. Crooks and liars. Unworthy opponents.
They use guilt and shame and never feel a bit themselves. No bigger hypocrites on the planet.
Selfish, petty, lying, liars,
Now,....let me tell you how I really feel....
Rex
(65,616 posts)krawhitham
(4,644 posts)then he can not win
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)applied to anyone, also Hillary Clinton. Nothing new here.
Chemisse
(30,811 posts)The money has flowed toward him but primary voters don't seem to like him much.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)the US is suffering from Bush fatigue. J.E. Bush will not be elected. Hell little Georgie wasn't even elected. He was selected.
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)nutsnberries
(1,772 posts)can you imagine the press running to catch him at his campaign stops?
She can't. I can't either.
I'm not thrilled with HRC being the Dem nominee but I think she can beat any of the clowns that are likely to be the Rep nominee.
Jeb Bush is a snooze fest for the 2016 election.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'd be willing to take odds on that.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)What's the matter, are you afraid if we get a woman president, the good old boys at the he man woman haters club aka discussionist might be upset?
I may have my misgivings about Hillary, but Jeb Bush is no man of the people. Even the conservatives think he is too nice, thus why they did nto elect jeb's handpicked seat warmer Bill McCollum and instead voted for Rick Scott.
kpete
(71,986 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)At least 30 percent of our party (the base of liberals/Progressives) are not enthused about Hillary as our nominee.
The base is the stalwart faction of our party that votes--but also volunteers during campaign season. I see flat interest in both voting and volunteering. She just won't galvanize our party like Obama or Howard Dean did.
Republicans hate her.
I just don't see her appealing to Independents.
In Presidential elections--if both parties elect viable candidate that invigorate their respective bases--the Independents decide the election. Usually, this is the way that most elections go.
With Clinton as our nominee, we'll have an underwhelmed base and a candidate who does not appeal to Independents.
I really think it's a recipe for a big loss.
Just look at 2008. Clinton was the inevitable candidate. All it took was a junior Senator to knock her off. It doesn't take much, because so many in our party want something different, something new.
I find her inevitability this time around--depressing.
Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #178)
seabeyond This message was self-deleted by its author.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Oddsmakers:
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/winner
Experts
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/04/why-hillary-clinton-is-probably-going-to-win.html?mid=twitter_nymag
And she has a healthy lead in the polls:
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-bush-vs-clinton
I find her candidacy--exhilarating.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Bit early to prognosticate, isn't it?
Hillary was pretty popular in upstate NY for a Dem.
One thing you are right about - underestimating Jeb Bush.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Conventional wisdom suggests he will eventually win the nomination but those numbers are flipping embarrassing for the brother and son of presidents.
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)in a row, according to Gallup, if "the ordinary citizen cannot relate to" her?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166646/obama-clinton-continue-reign-admired-man-woman.aspx
Aerows
(39,961 posts)cannot comprehend that another Bush in the White House would be a disaster, our nation belongs in the toilet it will descend into that will come with the election of another Bush.
If even 50% of our electorate think electing Jeb Bush is a good idea, we are fucking doomed, one way or the other.
I may not love Hillary, and I long for another primary candidate, but my GOD, I don't think that badly of the entire US electorate that we would somehow be stupid enough to choose Jeb fucking Bush.
Do you think so poorly of your country and its citizens!?
EDIT: And you recced your own post? Good Lord.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Obama got Florida once.
And Hillary could win without FL.
Initech
(100,068 posts)This isn't 2000 or 2004 though, we're ready for them.
chillfactor
(7,575 posts)and I relate to Hillary very well...I do not relate to another Bush at all....
MFM008
(19,808 posts)Jeb Bush win California? NY? Are you related to him?
I live in WA State, we haven't voted red since 1984. We voted for Dukakis for Gods sake.
Unless she drops dead, she wins and im not so sure she couldn't win dead.
Bush and the rest of the Insane clown posse will wet themselves against a Clinton/Castro Ticket.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)nt
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)And a woman to boot, I can relate.
I call bullshit to your Op.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I like Hillary. I don't like Jeb.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--of the 90s or of the 00s.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)The Bush Crime Family has a way of winning elections and none of them are legal. Saying that, you may be right.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)Hell, I don't think that Hillary can beat Rick Perry and he's been indicted.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)from stealing another election?
GOLGO 13
(1,681 posts)She's a tough cookie. Won't crumble under pressure as easily as a Bush.