Ayn Rand - How Is This Still A Thing?

[Initech]

[unblock]

1. as long as there is greed and selfishness, there will be flimsy excuses for it.

[guillaumeb]

2. can anyone remind me again

what is the difference between a Libertarian and a sociopath?

I truly cannot remember. Is the difference that one is running for political office?

[Major Nikon]

5. Sure

A libertarian is someone who strongly believes in individual rights, including those of the most unfortunate in society.

A libertarian sociopath is someone who believes the individual rights of the most fortunate trump every other right all the time, especially when it comes to the most unfortunate in society. In other words, you don't have to be an unwashed asshole to be a libertarian sociopath, but it's a great start.

[guillaumeb]

7. I suppose that most GOP politicians

fall into the second category. Too bad.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. Precisely.

Just as the "free-market" as conceived by Milton Friedman is a" corporate person" with purely psychopathic traits.

No empathy, treat others as objects, act only for your own gain…

But then, the Wall St/MIC/Oil-owned politicians of both parties also seem to run pretty strongly to psychopathy, nominally libertarian or not.

[guillaumeb]

16. and many of the same sociopaths

call themselves people of faith. Faith in the virtue of being rich is the part they leave out.

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Just for the helluvit--Ever read Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry?

[guillaumeb]

19. no

I will check it out, of the library. Thanks

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

3. Since we're on topic

Let me post this again

?w=584

[guillaumeb]

8. really nice

fell off my chair laughing. Can I sue you?

[Initech]

9. Perfect!!!!

[freshwest]

11. That is a keeper! n/t

[Xolodno]

23. Copyied it to my hard drive..

[Enthusiast]

24. +1 an entire shit load.

[NYC_SKP]

4. So I had to look up what is a "Drake". And wonder, How Is This Still A Thing???

[former9thward]

6. How is Karl Marx still a thing?

Two sides of the same coin...

[edhopper]

10. or every

Religion?

[DefenseLawyer]

14. You really think Karl Marx is on par with Ayn Rand?

Funny, I never once had a philosophy or economics course that mentioned Ayn Rand even once, even in passing. Put down The Fountainhead, you have a lot more reading to do.

[former9thward]

28. So do you.

I guess you think Marx is still something that we should follow.

[DefenseLawyer]

35. I think every educated person has to read Marx

Your pulp novelist isn't required reading for anyone. I'm going to assume you haven't read any political philosophy, much less Marx, otherwise you wouldn't have said something so ludicrous.

[former9thward]

41. I have read Marx

and his disciples Lenin and Mao. Assume what you may....

[DefenseLawyer]

45. Equating Das Kapital to "The Little Red Book"

Proves you haven't read either. But God Bless America, apple pie, freedom and all that. Good night and good luck.

[former9thward]

48. If you think the Little Red Book is an example of Mao

proves you have never read it or any of Mao's theoretical writings. The LRB was not even written by Mao. It was written by the Chinese Communist Party.

[tblue37]

49. Marx's critique of capitalism is right on the mark. He only fails when he

fantasizes about the socialist utopia, because he neglects to figure in the perversity of human nature and its unsuitability to advanced civilization and huge social groupings.

[former9thward]

52. No one, at least not me, argues capitalism is a flawless system.

I agree with your second sentence. My problem with your first sentence is that Marx thought that it was inevitable that capitalism would fail. He was looking at capitalism in the mid 1800s, when it was still primitive and less than 100 years old, and did not foresee the regulatory effect of government on the system.

[Kingofalldems]

20. How many Marxists running for office in the US?

Is there a political party who bases their economics on Marx?

So the two sided coin is one you just made up.

Epic.

[former9thward]

29. Is there a political party that follows Ann Rand?

[tenderfoot]

42. Who's Ann Rand?

Is for Ayn Rand, the GOP follows her. Most notably Paul Ryan and Alan Greenspan.

Have a nice day.

[former9thward]

43. You might argue the Libertarian party follows her.

But it is laughable to say the GOP does. Paul Ryan and Greenspan are not presidents. Every GOP president has issued volumes of regulations just as Democratic presidents do (which is entirely proper).

[Kingofalldems]

56. Remember Paul Ryan?

Atlas Shrugged was required reading for anyone who worked for him.

[former9thward]

57. Which means what?

He is a Rand fan boy. So what? The poster was talking about parties. If Sanders changes to a D to run for president does that mean all Democrats are socialists?

[Kingofalldems]

58. You seem to confuse Socialism with Marxism

Surely you must know there is a huge difference

[former9thward]

59. Classic.

You accuse me of confusing Socialism with Marxism yet you say because Paul Ryan reads Rand that means an entire major party promotes Rand. Funny.

[Kingofalldems]

60. Well let me ask you this, are you a Republican?

Nothing wrong if you are of course.

[former9thward]

61. No.

Are you one?

[brush]

21. Not even close.

Try goggling Marx.

[former9thward]

30. You first.

[Cal Carpenter]

22. ??

Please, expound. I'd love to hear you develop that theory.

Not sure if a rofl or a wtf applies here.

[former9thward]

31. Do your thing.

They are both crock pot theories.

[Cal Carpenter]

34. Okay

I suppose that's why even many mainstream economists find Marx's analysis and critique of capitalism useful and thorough.

Cuz it's a 'crock pot theory'.

If you say so.

I get a sense you may not really be familiar with Marx's body of work and the legacy of that work. Even economists who think his conclusions about communism and his revolutionary ideas are dangerous or wrong recognize the value of his analysis.

That's a fact whether you want to dismiss it with no substantiation or not.

Again, I'd love to hear you expound on *your* theory about him being two sides of the same coin in terms of Ayn Rand. Really, you made the claim, it would make sense to defend it with substance, no?

[former9thward]

40. They are both fanatical theories.

Based on a very flawed understanding of human nature. Socialism has never worked anywhere and Rand's theories have fortunately never obtained state power.

[edhopper]

44. Democratic Socialism

works in most of Europe.
And works better than the very limited socialism we have here.

Rand's theories can be seen in Somalia.

[former9thward]

46. No on both counts.

There are no socialist countries in Europe. I think you don't understand what capitalism is. All European countries are capitalist based. Somalia is an example of anarchy. Rand's theories are corporate based, not anarchy, and there are no real corporations in Somalia.

[edhopper]

47. There has never been a socialist country that

did not have capitalism within it.

And, no her theory was individual based. The Fountainhead was about the individual against the corporation.

[former9thward]

50. The European countries are capitalist with social welfare.

Social welfare is not socialism. That is a mistake conservatives make when they attack social welfare in the U.S. The U.S. has a smaller amount of social welfare than Europe but it is the same basic system. If you want to argue Rand is individual based then Somalia would be the last place on earth to make that comparison. Somalia is run by warlords and thugs. Certainly no place for the individual.

[edhopper]

51. You really don't understand Rand at all

we already know you have no understanding of Marx.

You are the winner of the most wrong posts in a single thread.

Good day.

[former9thward]

53. Your analysis of Europeon economics

shows you have no understanding of capitalism, socialism or I assume any economic system. You have a good day too!

[Cal Carpenter]

55. I've never heard the labor theory of value or historical materialism

described as 'fanatical' before. Sort of an odd characterization - I find Marx incredibly dry and nearly impossible to read sometimes.

I'm almost curious to hear you expound on human nature - what you think human nature really is, what you perceive as Marx's understanding of it, and why his is so flawed.

Regardless, the very fact that you continue to propose that Marxist theory and Rand's fictional bullshit are at all comparable, let alone 'two sides of the same coin', tells me everything I need to know, so there's no need for you to keep replying to me unless you really want the last word. You have plenty of other conversations on this subthread to keep you busy.

[Enthusiast]

25. Hardly

[PowerToThePeople]

27. omfg

[former9thward]

32. Insightful.

[PowerToThePeople]

33. Here is some insight.

[former9thward]

38. No he was not.

[PowerToThePeople]

39. ..

[alterfurz]

12. Christopher Hitchens on Libertarianism:

"I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement in the U.S. that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough."

[Initech]

13. So if we extrapolate - Ayn Rand is Satan?

[lame54]

37. or worse - Paul Ryan

[wheniwasincongress]

26. And remember

Paul Ryan then claimed he wasn't a fan of Ayn Rand and that he never gave books to his staff...despite him saying so on video tape.

[appalachiablue]

18. Satan get thee behind me-

[Thor_MN]

36. "Reality TV" Normalizing assholes and idiots because it's cheap and easy.

Granted not every reality show does these, but so many do.

[workinclasszero]

54. Pure fucking evil greed

thats what every damn republican is about and their god ayn rand is the personification of GREED!

That was a great video!