TPP is nothing more than DLC lipstick and makeup applied to a giant republican/corporate pig.

[Elwood P Dowd]

Comparing NAFTA to this monster is like comparing a pothole to a washed out bridge. Remember it took a Democratic President to get NAFTA passed. George H.W. Bush signed it in 1992 but did not have the votes to push through the implementing legislation. We heard much of the same rhetoric about that as we do now about TPP. Friends of mine said we had to trust Clinton, he has our back. He had our back alright, but he left part of the blade in there when he pulled out the knife.

There are two other monsters out there that will follow this one - TTIP and TISA. If TPP passes, I'm sure the other two will pass also. The corporate takeover will be complete and a government of the people, by the people, for the people will officially end.

What's sad is so many here on this site are supporting it almost as much as the republican leadership, CATO, Heritage, the US Chamber Of Commerce, Wall Street, and all the other corporate lap dogs.

[SamKnause]

1. K&R

I don't understand it either.

The follow like sheep.

It really is mind boggling.

I have always heard the Democratic party is informed.

I have to question that premise.

[NanceGreggs]

2. Oh, goody!

Another OP on how the TPP will destroy civilization as we know it.

I was so afraid we were going to run out.

[Elwood P Dowd]

3. Mitch McConnell says thank you for supporting TPP. (nm)

[nationalize the fed]

8. So does Rand Paul!

Rand Paul to Obama: "Prioritize" Passage of Trans-Pacific Partnership

"President George W. Bush understood that part of the projection of American power is the exporting of American goods and culture. His administration successfully brokered fourteen new free trade agreements and negotiated three others that are the only new free trade agreements approved since President Obama took office. Instead of just talking about a so-called “pivot to Asia,” the Obama administration should prioritize negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership by year’s end." Rand Paul, Oct. 23, 2014
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/19439-rand-paul-to-obama-prioritize-passage-of-trans-pacific-partnership

Anyone on the fence should take a look at who supports it and who wants more information or opposes it.

[Dragonfli]

10. Oh dear, I had heard this board was infested with Paulites, but I didn't want to believe it. /nt

[Enthusiast]

24. Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul are good honest men. They would never lead us astray.

[Joe Worker]

51. You sir

know exactly what you are talking about!

[NanceGreggs]

11. I haven't read it.

And doubt that I would understand it, if I had - despite the fact that apparently dozens of DUers have read it and understand the intricacies of international trade law without any education or training in the field.

Having not read it, I neither support it nor reject it.

Is pointing out that there are already many, many threads on this topic, all saying the same thing, now to be construed as "support for the TPP"?

Is this yet another litmus test - like not participating in endless "discussions" about divining the nefarious symbolism hidden in Hillary's campaign logo - to weed out the undesirables on DU?

I don't receive the memos - so it's hard to keep up with every "this-means-that" de jour.

[newfie11]

29. Has it been released to the public?

It's my understanding even those in congress had difficulty in reading it. It's been a huge secret.

[NanceGreggs]

39. "Leaks" have popped up on the internetz ...

... from time to time. How legit they are is always questionable.

[BeanMusical]

42. Nobody came out to deny the legitimacy of these leaked documents.

[NanceGreggs]

43. Hmm, yeah.

That's suspicious because, as we all know, the President and/or his staff always comment on alleged documents that circulate via the internet.

[BeanMusical]

44. Hmm, yeah, sure, whatever.

As if everything that is released by WikiLeaks wasn't dissected and analyzed by countless people. If these documents were fake and someone could prove that they are then we would hear about it. Especially from the people who can't stand WikiLeaks. These "alleged" documents are mentioned and quoted by politicians, journalists and so on, I doubt that they didn't verify their authenticity. BTW, who's talking about the President and/or his staff?

[NanceGreggs]

45. Pretty much everything on the internet ...

... is eventually "dissected and analyzed by countless people". So what? Who are those people, and what is their expertise in analyzing anything?

"These 'alleged' documents are mentioned and quoted by politicians, journalists and so on, I doubt that they didn't verify their authenticity."

Fine. Please post the links to the "verification" done by said politicians, journalists, and so on. I am more than interested in knowing how they "verified" said leaks.

[BeanMusical]

46. "Please post the links to the "verification" done by said politicians, journalists, and so on."

Please post a link to any article from a serious source claiming that these documents are fake and can prove that they are.

[NanceGreggs]

47. Uh, no, sweetie ...

... that's not how it works.

You claimed that the leaks have been "verified" - ergo, it is up to you to back up your own claim.

[BeanMusical]

49. For someone who pretends to be a writer you don't know much about fact checking, now do you?

Not that facts matter much to you, especially at that echo chamber where you're hanging out, hmm Honey bunny? I hope that you'll have a wonderful Summer.

[NanceGreggs]

50. I have never "pretended" to be a writer ...

... however, I have somehow been recognized as such by the websites and newspapers that have republished my articles, and by the radio journalists who have read my work on-air - such as Stephanie Miller, Mike Malloy and Thom Hartmann.

I was not the one who made the claim that "these alleged documents are mentioned and quoted by politicians, journalists and so on, I doubt that they didn't verify their authenticity."

If you don't doubt that the authenticity of said documents was "verified", please share with all of us the "verification" process that you are so sure took place. That would be part of "fact checking" - which is the responsibility of the one making a claim, not on one refuting it.

So you do yourself a little of that "fact checking" you speak of - and get back to me with the "facts" behind your own assertion - not mine, YOURS - and show me where and how the "verification" of the leaks was carried out by "politicians, journalists and so on".

[DisgustipatedinCA]

68. One thing you do know is that Republicans support it.

What's your response to that fact?

[NanceGreggs]

69. Sorry, but ...

... the old "if Republicans are for it, I am automatically against it" routine is just plain lazy thinking - or, more to the point, a lack of any thinking at all.

If GOPers started slamming it, would you change your position based on that fact alone?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

71. Tell me, in the last 6 years, what have Republicans supported that you agree with?

I'm not wasting my time playing the naivety game with you. If elected Republicans are solidly behind something, you'd better run the other direction. It takes a special sort of fool to believe otherwise.

[neverforget]

5. Can you explain why the US Chamber of Commerce, Orrin Hatch and Paul Ryan are for it

while unions, environmental groups and Democrats like Sen Merkley, Warren, Brown are against it? If it's so good for workers, why are they against it and Republicans for the most part, are for it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/04/21/u-s-chamber-afl-cio-clash-at-senate-hearing-over-obamas-free-trade-push/

But Trumka railed against the process, arguing the bill is essentially a rubber-stamp for the administration to pass a massive free trade and regulatory pact with countries that compose 40 percent of the world's gross domestic product.

Trumka said the Obama administration has spent more than five years already negotiating the terms with the Asia Pacific nations and that the negotiating principles contained the fast-track legislation are pointless because the deal is almost finished.

"The idea that fast track lets Congress set goals for the TPP is an absolute fiction," he said. "The instructions you send them will have no effect whatsoever."

Hatch expressed confidence the bill would win support from some Democrats. But he acknowledged the difficult politics for many on the other side of the aisle.

"Mr. Trumka, you haven’t helped them here today with your criticisms," Hatch said.

"Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that," Trumka replied.

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. When Orrin Hatch is co-author of legislation, bend over and bite on the towell.

Its going to be painful.

[appalachiablue]

35. Bernie too of course. Even Sen. Harry Reid is agin' it-

THE PEOPLE VS. TRANSNATIONAL CORPORATE KINGS

[Joe Worker]

52. At least we will have the consolation

of watching HRC FAIL if fast track and the TPP are implemented!

[NanceGreggs]

55. Out so soon? n/t

[Joe Worker]

56. I can recognize a coup when I see one

Throwing pensioners under the bus was where I drew the line! (with Obama)

These trade deals are nothing more than theft from the middle class. Haven't we wised up to sending these same GS clowns to the WH every year?

We have not had a champion for the middle class since LBJ and that is the TRUTH!

I know many who feel even more strongly than I do. Unions will sit this one out since HCR is playing the same old game. A TPP will be even more of an uphill climb for her and the Democratic Party. Bet On It!

[NanceGreggs]

58. Out too soon.

It happens.

Better luck next time around!

[Joe Worker]

60. I am still learning

the navigation on this site. I have been all over it tonight!

[Gman]

4. The DLC hasn't existed for years.

[Elwood P Dowd]

7. Their lipstick, makeup, and talking points haven't gone anywhere. (nm)

[Dragonfli]

9. Yet their ideology, founders, think tanks, and goals live on (ever hear of re-branding)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12774832

[Enthusiast]

25. It's a case of rebranding. They already have a name ready to replace Third Way.

It is my understanding that Blackwater consulted with Third Way on the new name Xe.

It's true! Just as true as the TPP will create huge numbers of new American jobs.

[merrily]

14. Irrelevant. The "philosophy" lives in the offshoots and philosophical kin of the DLC:

the Progressive Policy Institute, Third Way, New Democrat Network, Center for American Progress, No Labels and so on.

But, you knew that.

[stillwaiting]

28. Well, this post ensures that I don't take anything you say seriously going forward.

How utterly disingenuous. Or, how utterly naive.

Either way =

[Oilwellian]

38. When you've cemented control of the DNC...

who needs the DLC anymore?

[One of the 99]

66. Accorn hasn't existed for years.

That doesn't stop the right from still using it as a bogeyman.

[msongs]

6. in secret, stampede it thru with no changes or deep study time, rush rush rush.

one would think it was some sort of bait and switch scam

[Dragonfli]

12. Funny how it took years to forge yet the passing of it needs be rushed.

Don't con men have a name for this tactic of rushing the signing of the deal by the mark?

[Buns_of_Fire]

59. "...and if you're one of the first 100 congresscritters to support FTA,

"we're going to include a second trade agreement ABSOLUTELY FREE! (Just pay additional shipping and handling.)"

[sabrina 1]

13. George Bush also tried what Obama is trying now, to Fast Track a Trade bill. He failed. In 2007.

These Corporations never give up, even when they lose. They just try again, if a Repub doesn't get it done, they try it with a Dem.

[RKP5637]

27. It's like Whac-A-Mole, a constant battle. And often R=D=I when it comes to big $$$$$'s IMO. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

40. "if a Repub doesn't get it done, they try it with a Dem"

That was the whole point of ensuring that either Hillary or Barack wound up in office in 2008.

It was always clear that it would be one of those two.

It is now pretty clear that either would do just what the right wing wanted.

[Elwood P Dowd]

72. Just like NAFTA.

Clinton suddenly became a free trader and stabbed working people and unions in the back. I keep voting for Dems who turn out to be chameleons.

[Joe Worker]

63. Bribery has become a simple business expense

You can tell from the money exchanging hands and the repeat offenders.

[cantbeserious]

16. I'm Ready For Oligarchy - Are You? - Support Obama On TPP - Elect HRC To Continue The Charade

[Elwood P Dowd]

18. Here is the TPP Oligarch love song. "Yes, I'm Ready".

[cantbeserious]

19. Perfect - Silky Smooth Pipes To Mollify The Masses As The 99% Are Led To Slaughter

eom

[appalachiablue]

36. +1 A slow, miserable path to the Glue Factory

[betterdemsonly]

37. I think their songs are like

"Let it go" "Happy" and "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" I do think showbusiness has been coopted by them, and these are austerity anthems.

[Jester Messiah]

30. Yep, Goldman & co. own both parties.

The only choice now is whether you'd like a side of religious fundamentalism with your shit sandwich.

[Joe Worker]

62. Bing!

we have a winner.

[Joe Worker]

53. Exactly

What the blind sheep and their enablers are hoping for.

[JDPriestly]

17. It's a corporate coup. I say that because of the corporate courts that will

inevitably turn over some of our laws or court decisions, that will inevitably weaken our democracy and lead to even more powerful international courts that will ultimately have the power to destroy our democracy. Sounds like hyperbole but wait till you read the text of the agreement concerning the TPP court.

[blkmusclmachine]

20. https://vikkilittlemore.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/obama.jpg

[blkmusclmachine]

21. https://whitehouse.gov1.info/photos7/obama-laughing.jpg

[blkmusclmachine]

22. http://media.townhall.com/townhall/reu/ha/2014/169/31fd1d44-b416-4bdc-ada9-9267a7930c79.jpg

[Enthusiast]

23. Democrats are inclined to believe the President even if he is being less than honest.

[PeteSelman]

26. I've seen several Britney Spears style loyalists here.

https://m.

It's vomit inducing.

[Enthusiast]

33. Vomit inducing indeed.

[FiveGoodMen]

41. Moreso when it comes from people on this site than when it's just some young singer's opinion!

[BeanMusical]

48. Well, some of them are wearing very thick rose-colored glasses.

[99Forever]

31. Bingo.

We have a winner.

Any Democrat that allows this to become law, should be primaried and any potential Democratic candidate that isn't speaking out loud and clear against this corporate PIG of a "deal" doesn't deserve a single vote frm any actual Democrats.

This monster will put us all in to lifetime servitude to the multinational corporations and the 1% masters.

[Bluenorthwest]

32. Who is your Rep? What are they saying?

“Supporters of this bill will tell you it’s better than fast track deals of the past with protections for workers and the environment—don’t take the bait. It reinforces the same failed trade policies of the last 20 years that have earned multi-national corporations record profits and shipped good paying American jobs overseas. Congress must not be used as a doormat to pass bad trade deals. It’s the same raw deal for American workers and the environment.
Without the proper protections, trade deals can give foreign governments or multinational corporations a means to circumvent U.S. laws. As Ranking Member of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, I want to be sure we preserve strong Buy America policies in federal and local transportation projects to support American jobs and workers and ensure that policies like Buy America are not undermined in any future free trade agreement.”
Peter DeFazio

It would be interesting to hear what others are saying as well.....

[moondust]

34. Could be.

I'm leaning toward: one last attempt to goose the stock market and find lasting favor with the 1% before leaving the stage.

[Monk06]

54. TTP is about replacing national sovereignty with corporate sovereignty. That is what globalism is.

Once signed corporations can sue national governments to overturn legislation that effects their profitablility.

That's wage, employment, environmental and tax rules.

Corporations will be able to veto national energy, employment and environmental legislation.

It's NAFTA for the Pacific Rim.

It won't force Chinese polluters to clean up their act, as Obama claimed on Chris Mathiews. It will allow Chinese and American companies to sue the Canadian government if they are asked to pay for cleanup in the Alberta Oil Sands. Same goes in any other country on the list of signatories.

In other words we go from no rules to Corporations making the rules. Who could argue with that, soon to be rich former president Obama asks?

[Joe Worker]

57. So far as we know

this still does not address the issue of Chinese currency manipulation either.

What is really worrisome is the effects it could have on drug prices and granting authority to a foreign government to sue our local municipalities.

[Monk06]

61. An American, Australian or Canadian corporation could sue their governments or each others

governments if environmental regulations effected their profitability in a way that Thailand's regulations don't.

It will be a race to the bottom on wages, social policy, health policy, and tax policy.

As far as China manipulating it's currency, what an enormous joke that is. What is the US doing with 'quantitative easing' but printing money so US Treasuries are paying negative yield. The Chinese are too money smart to fall for that one. Why do you think they are hoarding gold? If you borrow at a given exchange rate that is the rate you pay back. Don't try to settle your debts with monopoly money.

[rock]

64. That would be the pig in the poke that I keep talking about

Anybody selling this stuff might as well be calling us shit-for-brains.

[AzDar]

65. Ayup.

[Autumn]

67. I like the way you turn a phrase

[polichick]

70. The brainwashing happens on both sides - one corporate party, two faces...

What's particularly shocking is the situation Sanders pointed out on Ed's show today - that only msnbc is covering the TPP, none of the other big networks. Most people have no clue what's happening.