General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Tower of Babel in 7 maps and charts - Our precious human heritage: Language
6. Nevertheless, most languages are spoken only by a handful of people. That's why about half of the world's languages will disappear by the end of the century.
Whereas English lags behind in the number of native speakers, it is by far the world's most commonly studied language. Overall, more people learn English than French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, German and Chinese combined.
HISTORICAL REALITY TO REMEMBER:
The reason why English, French and Spanish are among the world's most widespread languages has its roots in the imperial past of the nations where they originate.
Study more:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/04/23/the-worlds-languages-in-7-maps-and-charts/?tid=pm_pop_b
Duppers
(28,120 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)and all manner of English-learning methods.
The Chinese know perfectly well that most of the world isn't going to learn their language.
If they want to trade with us, they need to talk to us.
Have a friend who taught in central China for one yr.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)After all, look what happened to the previous lingua franca...
dembotoz
(16,802 posts)More Arabic than Spanish...that might give pause to those who want a new crusade...
Feeling rather dumb today
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Only the Brits and the Americans are so arrogant as to assume that everybody speaks their language, so why bother.
Anglo speakers are linguistically challenged, in general.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)where France is, more of us would speak a second language.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Tanuki
(14,918 posts)unless they were rich or drafted into the military. Outside of major cities, you could go your entire life without encountering someone who didn't speak English. It wasn't even an issue for most people, and there was no emphasis on language learning in most schools. No need to project arrogance on people who never had an opportunity to learn a second language.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)A move to embrace it with open arms as America's official second language?
HELLL NO! Bill after bill in state legislatures to make 'MURCAN (English) the mandatory official language.
Americans over-all are a linguistically lazy lot.
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)that English is the "official language" of the U.S. It is not, and never has been. Why would we have an official second language when we don't (and shouldn't) have an official first one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States
I am all for exposing oneself to multiple languages and cultures. I grew up in Appalachia and went to a very basic, no-frills school and had little opportunity to learn more than the bare rudiments of any other language until I went away to college. It's much more difficult to acquire a new language as an adult, for a variety of reasons including brain plasticity, and I regret not learning more earlier in life. I don't think that makes me lazy or arrogant.
I now live in Nashville. When I lived here years ago as a college student, there was only a very small international presence here. Since then, the Spanish-speaking population has burgeoned, but we also now have the largest Kurdish population outside Kurdistan, and significant numbers of refugees from Somalia, Burma, and elsewhere. I am not sure why you think that Spanish should be privileged in an official capacity when there are also so many others. Frankly, to me that is as xenophobic as "English only."
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)in those Red States...go figure.
I merely mentioned Spanish because of its ubiquity in American culture.
I have no idea about you personally. I DO know that Americans IN GENERAL are the least inclined among the 'developed' nations to learn another language.
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)is behind this, along with writing legislation regarding women's reproductive rights, breaking the back of unions, de-regulating business, cutting funds for public education and consumer protection, undermining health care for the poor, providing back-door public support of religion via school vouchers, privatizing prisons, eliminating sensible gun control regulations, and much more. If you think this trend is really about language, you are missing the big picture.
Here in Nashville, there was an "English-only" initiative a few years ago, but you might be surprised to know that the public voted it down. Here is a discussion of what happened:
http://www.equalvoiceforfamilies.org/defeat-of-english-first-in-nashville-shows-power-of-unity/
This coalition was instrumental in its defeat:
http://nashvilleforallofus.org/
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Of course I don't 'think this trend is really/only about language', just a reflection of the general jingoistic mind-set that reigns among at least 25-30% of the American public.
sabbat hunter
(6,829 posts)English is the language of diplomats, international air travel, business. At one time it was French, but English has since replaced it.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)That's not fast enough.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Look how the Navajo Wind Talkers were able to help in WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Once you speak these foreign languages and are accepted as a local speaker, what do you find out? That you have removed a barrier, but that it did not bring you any intrinsic new knowledge.
I have often read the same books in different languages just to check that. It's perfectly obvious for anything factual (sciences, news, down to crime fiction), but it also holds true of emotional texts (songs, children books). The only thing that will get lost out will be the occasional richness of some rhyme. Not justification enough for all the downsides of this jungle of languages.
The 'rich' diversity of the 10'000+ languages before the Industrial Revolution just showed that many human groups were isolated by lack of transportation and communication means. So these 10'000 codes are testament to 10'000 difficulties of transport and communication. Not a happy testament.
Finally, languages are powerful tools to excite in-group/out-group divisiveness. Want to invade your neighbor? Dehumanize their eating habits and their lingo. Better: combine the two: Krauts. Limeys. Frogs.
Language is a tool of national divisiveness, and "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Surely you must be aware that there are multiple dialects, even in the most rigidly regulated of languages? And for good reason: local conditions require specialized vocabulary...creative and unique ideas require a way to communicate them.
And is it so much to ask that people make an effort to bridge language barriers in the pursuit of peaceful relations? It's worked far better for us than war, slavery, and inequality.
Or standardization.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Grammars are the architecture of the 10'000 languages. The differences of these architectures bring absolutely nothing to the plate. Like I said, reading the same book in two different languages usually brings no benefit.
Now I do realize each regional group will bring its touch to the general architecture. That's why some words can be used with difference between, say, British English and American English. Some new words might pop up in Australia or in Arizona (more so betwee Chinese dialects). But English or Chinese speakers (usually) remain able to understand one another.
But mostly, local conditions do not require specialized vocabulary. If someone invents sushis, the words is usually accepted as is universally.
I mentioned the divisiveness of languages. And it's compounded by the diversity of languages. A kid learning Piedmontese, Navajo or Corsican is narrowing his universe down, not expanding it by learning Chinese or Arabic.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)and the flexibility of the thinking process. Language is a partial mapping of the functioning of our brains, and we are not computers, bound to 1 and 0 and rules that cannot be broken without creating chaos.
Grammar variations are cultural variations....recordings of the development of those groups of people. Standardizing that leaves no room for people like me--brought up in a culture to which I am not in the slightest attuned. I can understand it, communicate with it, but it cannot encompass (and seldom uses) my abilities, nor trigger any reflex responses in me (above the flight or flight primitive instinct, at least). I make a very poor modern American. I'd do better in a previous century (provided I wasn't female at the time).
I have been fluent in 2 other languages besides English (not now, due to lack of recent use) and studied several others as a hobby.
No, thank you. I vote to keep our options open. It is diversity and the multiple choice options that keep a species viable. Our two strengths are language (brain augmentation) and tools(environmental augmentation). You could get rid of practically anything else, and still be human and viable. Take either of those away, and the species dies. We become cattle, chattel, undifferentiated lemmings, where Might makes Right.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Besides, when yu write "Grammar variations are cultural variations", yes, grammars are the product of different cultures, but as a retroactive effect, their influence on their cultures is little. As an example, French is spoken in Southern, Norther France and in Switzerland.
yet, I can assure you the cultural differences between Southern, Norther France and Switzerland are quite marked.
To make my point very simple: I have not experienced benefits fom the languages I learnt other than removing barriers. While I learnt new and different thought processes from games, arts and sports AND cultures. I learnt things from the difference in cultural perspectives between Anglo-Saxon, Latin or Asian countries and regions, independently of the languages they shared or not.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)He was working on teaching computers to speak/write spontaneously, grammatically correct human languages...artificial intelligence.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)10 Superb Psychological Advantages of Learning Another Language
Benefits of learning a second language include brain growth, staving off dementia, boosting memory, improving attention and more
To have another language is to possess a second soul. Charlemagne
People used to think that learning two languages created confusion in the mind.
Far better, it was thought, to get one right than bother with two.
An even more extreme and absurd view was that learning two languages caused a kind of schizophrenia or dual personality.
Some studies did seem to back up the idea that learning two languages could be problematic; early researchers noted that bilingual people tended to have smaller vocabularies and slower access to words.
But these myths and minor disadvantages have now been overshadowed by a wave of new research showing the incredible psychological benefits of learning a second language. And these extend way beyond being able to order a cup of coffee abroad or ask directions to your hotel.
1.Brain growth
2. Stave off dementia
3. Hear language better
4. Become more language sensitive
5. Boost your memory
6. Better multi-tasking
7. Increased attention
8. Double the activation
9. New ways of seeing
10. Improve your first language
Learning a new language can literally change the way you see the world.
Since learning a second language draws your attention to the abstract rules and structure of language, it can make you better at your first language.
As Geoffrey Willans said: You can never understand one language until you understand at least two.
These ten are all quite apart from the benefits of immersing yourself in another culture, and of seeing your own culture from the perspective of another.
All told, you may well get something like a second soul from learning another language.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)A- most of the benefits you mention can be gained by any other activity: learning to play music, chess, a sport, whatever. Music, chess, painting all would foster
1.Brain growth
2. Stave off dementia
5. Boost your memory
6. Better multi-tasking
7. Increased attention
8. Double the activation
while, I repeat, once you have learnt other languages, it does not help you understand anything better. You have just removed barriers.
B- One of the benefits you mention is circular:
4. Become more language sensitive
What would be the point of becoming moresensitive to language differences if they did not exist in the first place.
C- one of the benefits you mention is misplaced.
9. New ways of seeing is related to understanding the different culture of other countries. The language itself is only a barrier to that culture as long as you do not speak it.
Anyway, for someone like me who can read and speak a few languages, it's good fun to be called a language hegemonist.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)you must have learned them by rote and rule, and neglected to immerse youself in the cultures which gave rise to those same languages.
And, you are the poorer for it, IMHO.
In passing, the 'mistakes' you dissect are not mine, but those of the study's author and the supporting studies he/she uses.
Related articles:
The Age At Which Learning a New Language Stops Strengthening The Brain
Learning Challenging New Skills Like Photography Improves Memory
Offline Learning: How The Mind Learns During Sleep
Memory & Learning Boosted and Depression Prevented By Compound In These Fruits and Nuts
Learn Languages Better With This Psychological Tip
About the author
Dr Jeremy Dean is a psychologist and the author of PsyBlog and HealthiestBlog.com. His latest book is "Making Habits, Breaking Habits: How to Make Changes That Stick".
http://www.spring.org.uk/2013/09/10-superb-psychological-advantages-of-learning-another-language.php
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)I have lived and worked in the different countries of origin of the handful of languages I speak. In my home, we speak three languages among ourselves.
I will admit one error on my part though. It is true you did not come up with the 10 erroneous claims about the benefits of learning languages, the author of the text you quoted did.
But you did not address the bulk of my debunking of these 10 claims. Again, as a speaker of a few languages, I must insist: once you have mastered other languages, you have removed barriers, but not made any other gain.
While if you learn games (chess), arts (painting, music), sports, you gain access to new worlds which bring much more tangible benefits than learning another human language.
If I may call Voltaire to my rescue, he was mocking an Italian polymath, Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, who was famous for speaking something like twenty languages. Voltaire commented (from memory) that della Mirandola spoke many languages, but made very little sense in all of them. A nice way to illustrate the fact the time spent learning languages is wasted on other, more fruitful purposes.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)That is the fault of the learner and not the language.
Once again, refusing the cultural richness that unperpins a language 'makes Jack a dull boy'. No to mention a poorer soul.
FWIW, Voltaire was mocking one of his court rivals, not making a comment on the merits of acquiring other languages.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)When I interact abroad, I am aware of cultural differences. In tastes, and ways of expressing oneself. These are largely independent of the language itself. Since these foreign languages have become second nature, I do not think about the grammar of how to express my thinking, but to the respect of the cultural codes when I think of the things to say. I could respect this same culural code if I expressed myself in another language, provided the person could understand that language.
To illustrate: I do not speak to an American and to an Englishman in the same way. And you probably can think of different types of people within America whom you would address in different ways. More or less direct. More or less deferent. It's exactly what happens when you adjust to cultures. One might say "No, I disagree" in a cordial way to an American, not to a traditionalist Brit. But you probably could to an internationally minded urban young Brit. All these are cultural differences within the same language.
Using a foreign language is not what allows you to adapt to foreign interlocutors, it's the knowledge of their cultural expectations. The language itself just means you can proceed to that adaptation without the barrier of the language.
PS: della Mirandola was not a court competitor of Voltaire. Voltaire lived in 5 countries, including the courts of three (Russia, Prussia and France). Della Mirandola only belonged to the courts of the different duchies of the Italian peninsula (mostly Firenze).
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)'You are confusing culture and language'...?
No, you are confusing language acquisition with human diversity and richness.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Case in point: at the different times when Latin, French or English were the lingua franca of their times, it did not erase the cultural differences between the countries.
Language was a product, a tool, and it would be difficut to prove that languages themselves were major agents in altering the course of the cultures they hailed from.
Geography and Climate influenced the cultures far more than arbitrary codes.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Just very briefly - I have found that learning other languages has been the opening of a door into another culture, the way people think, feel. How THEY perceive things. Why they are the way they are.
I realized this with the first language I learned as an adult and after college - Japanese - and I spent several years in Japan at different times, plus many shorter trips.
I am still working on Chinese (which does not come easy for me, as Japanese did) and have found the same thing when visiting China and Taiwan or when associating with Chinese and Taiwanese here.
Think of the differences in just the sound of German and the Polynesian languages-- German, and Dutch, for that matter, have all the consonants and the Polynesian languages have all the vowels.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Yes, "learning other languages has been the opening of a door into another culture", because you can't understand a culture if you cannot dismiss its language. What I mean is, the day the language itself isn't a barrier anymore, the day you think in Japanese as you would in English, you can start the real job of understanding the culture: the social codes, the things which are valued, how and why.
But it is NOT the language that will have taught you (in your words) "the way people think, feel. How THEY perceive things. Why they are the way they are.", it's justthe fact you erased a barrier, and took the time to understand the culture and social codes.
Let me give you an example: take a Swiss citizen trilingual in French,German and English (there are many). His culture will be different iaccording to his culture of origin: ethnic, social background, political opinions, usw. Not any of the three languages will give you a clue to his culture.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)hunter
(38,311 posts)No thanks. I try to keep the voices out of my head.
The language I use does reflect myself to some extent, as best I'm able, but I try not to let it influence my thinking.
Like all human languages, English has some terrible shortcomings. Letting English or any other single language guide one's thoughts is limiting, like wearing a straitjacket.
The English language, in combination with television and other mass media, has become a terrible propaganda tool.
Most people cannot differentiate the voices in their heads from their own true selves. They become tools of the language and those who are clever manipulators of the language.