Poll: If you could have Hillary Or Bernie for President, who would you pick??

[Logical]

Forget if you think they are electable.

If you could magically pick the next president, who would you pick??

425 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Hillary
	37 (9%)
	Bernie
	388 (91%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[linuxman]

1. Damn.

LOL.

[bvf]

27. Right? n/t.

[OLDMADAM]

293. I'm sorry, I'm not laughing.. This is where we are in the party..

We are in serious trouble, Hillary, and the Clinton family are disingenuous in the minds of true progressives, and their second choice is a fantastic guy, but in reality, is not electable in a general election.. Fire away, but if you are honest, you have to agree with me..

[merrily]

302. Not really.

[OLDMADAM]

326. We may disagree, but I hope you are right, and I am wrong..

[merrily]

327. My exception was to "if you are honest, you have to agree with me."

If my crystal ball tells me something different about next November than yours tells you, that does not make me dishonest.

[OLDMADAM]

328. I misunderstood, I thought you you were talking about Hillary..

If you believe Sen Sanders can win in a general election, we surely disagree.. A politician in this country, who proudly says he is a Socialist, has little to no chance to win outside his home state, let alone the battleground states.. If you honestly believe that he can, you are in serious denial, IMHO..

I would fight for him in a heartbeat, but I really believe, it would be an up-hill battle, with little chance of success..

[merrily]

329. Again, my exception was to your imputing dishonesty.

[OLDMADAM]

331. Please accept my apology, I simply couldn't understand..

But I am now convinced that you really believe Sen. Sanders could win a national election..

[merrily]

332. One last try to make my point clear.

It has nothing to do with whether Sanders can or cannot win an election. It has to do with your claim that anyone who disagrees with you is dishonest.

[OLDMADAM]

335. Have it your way..

Actually, my new belief is you are nothing but a bitter bully, looking to be offended, and picking on a low count poster, it's why I post so few comments.. I will grant you my choice of words could/should have been better chosen, but I tried to explain it, you decide to make a federal case out of it, so be it..

You can accept my apology or not, it's your choice..

[merrily]

339. yikes.

[yuiyoshida]

453. oh my!!!

Merrily a bully?

[MohRokTah]

376. Don;t worry. You were the bigger person for apologizing.

Only small people refuse to accept heartfelt apologies.

[frylock]

389. says the conventional wisdom

[OLDMADAM]

408. Well at least you admit, I am not out on a limb.. ha!

[trillion]

367. Hey, is it okay to steal your Bernie logo? I've love to have that on my posts too.

[merrily]

368. sure. ichingcarpenter made them for anyone to use. No stealing involved.

[still_one]

401. "True progressives"? So you decide who is a true progressive?

[OLDMADAM]

407. .. Well, yes.. perhaps you were so busy collecting 35,000 hits to see the fax..

Where do you people come from, jumping on an apparently harmless post, with no intentions except to start a useless fight? WE had better find a better way to unite this party, or the end may be closer than we think..

[still_one]

412. My my are you sensitive, to start and insinuate something with the number of posts I have. In fact

using someone's number of posts or lack there of used to be against the TOS

"Where do you people come from"? What are you insinuating? Keep going with your judgmental rhetoric you will go places

[OLDMADAM]

413. What in the Hell is wrong with us?

Why are you coming out of nowhere to start a useless fight with an ally? We are both fighting a real enemy, having diverse opinions on who would be the best.. Hell, I'll vote for any of them, but, like you, I'm sure we both want the best.. I'm not at all a confrontational person, and seldom post to avoid these petty skirmishes..

We come from different backgrounds, and see things through a different lens.. So why not listen to each other and try to find common ground..

I know now I started out with a clumsy post but tried to rectify it several times.. I have read many of your posts, and never felt a reason to address you, because I mostly agree with you..

I am truly worried about this election, especially after the midterms, we need the best to stop these bastards.. I'll fall in line at the end, you can be sure..

If we could start again, and I'll start by saying Hi, and good luck..

[still_one]

415. I am not fighting you. I was just commenting on some of your assumptions. I agree, I will

stop the insinuations, and wish you a nice evening

I realize we are we are on the same team, and that is good

Take care

[OLDMADAM]

416. Lets take it to them, and WIN in 2016.. Thank you..

[peacebird]

429. We will have to agree to disagree. I believe Bernie can win, & Hillary cannot.

The R's hate her with a passion.

[OLDMADAM]

431. I agree, about Hillary, and it appears that a great many D's do too..

[Android3.14]

455. Just wanted to see if you changed your mind about electability

This was six months ago and a lot has changed. Do you still think Sanders is unelectable in the GE?

[OLDMADAM]

456. Not in the least.. If there has been any change..

I now believe we are DOOMED.. Not only do I believe Sen. Sanders, will not become the nominee, I am now convinced Sen. Clinton can't win the election.. It's a real conundrum.. She's can't tell the truth, he won't lie..

[Skink]

2. Bernie Vice and or Castro Vice.

I thought when I voted for Obama we would see a lib. This is the way.

[Luminous Animal]

3. I've been a registered Green for decades. I've not voted for a Democrat or any other party for

higher office in decades (that is my luxury… I live in San Francisco, California). I've worked my ass off for to get out the vote, in state and national elections, to get out the vote for Socialists or Greens.

I'm going to volunteer for Bernie. My husband and daughter will faint when they find out. And seriously? I think the National Green Party should back him.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. surprise surprise...

[obnoxiousdrunk]

24. Bernie is polling

little higher than Dennis Kuchinich in 2008.

[totodeinhere]

99. But I think that Bernie has much more potential and his numbers will

continue to get better. With all due respect to Dennis, he was a congressmen, and we haven't elected a congressperson directly to the presidency for over one and a half centuries. But of course Bernie is a senator.

[sabrina 1]

122. Where was Obama 2 years before the primaries?

Lol, I'm guessing Bernie will have the Unions and Teachers and Nurses and all those who have warned the Dem Party to no longer count on their votes unless they start standing up for them.

Bernie is just getting started.

I like that he is making Campaign Financing a big issue. He's a smart man, he will be up against billions of Corporate dollars and the best way to fight that, is to make it the issue it should be. It has corrupted our entire system and we know that the public agrees.

I think he knows some things you don't know right now or he would not be running.

The winds of change are blowing and it's way past time.

Enough with the inequality that is destroying this country and others since Corporations began buying elections.

It will be an uphill fight, but I think Bernie is going to surprise a lot of people.

Kucinich is a great Democrat, right on all the issues, but he was way ahead of his time. Things are different today.

I have a feeling Bernie is going to get that all-important Independent vote.

[JDPriestly]

300. Bernie is a more forceful and concise speaker than is

Kucinich. Also, Bernie projects a lot more confidence and moral authority than Kucinich. Kucinich was a great and moral man, but he was very different from Bernie Sanders.

[RiverNoord]

155. What does that even mean?

It's April 2015 - the general election is on November 8, 2016. Sanders officially announced his candidacy today. Seriously, polling?

[INdemo]

272. The Iowa Caucus is 8+ months away. Bernie could gain an awful lot of ground from now till Jan 2017

Liberals that have skipped the last elections will come out, re-register and vote. Bernie has a chance.

[rufus dog]

163. Not a fair comparison

Bernie is real and will have a much stronger group of supporters.

[AgingAmerican]

219. Kuchinich Meme Fail

nt

[daleanime]

26. Helps keep life interesting...

[Ken Burch]

36. It's bad that Bernie is bringing new people to the Democratic Party?

By you, that's a bad thing?

What matters is where voters end up...not where they started.

He's running as a Dem...as he always said he would if he did run for president...what more could you ask?

[Luminous Animal]

49. I've campaigned for more Dems than any other party combined. San Francisco is

a Democratic town. I belong to two Democratic clubs. The members know I am a Green Party member (and I am not the only one AND there are some socialists, as well.) They don't mind. Politically, I am an anarchy-syndicalist which the organized Socialist Party's seem uncomfortable with and why I am not a registered Socialist. Though, oddly enough, the Democrats that I work with have no problem with my uber lefty philosophy.

[arcane1]

58. Another San Franciscan for Sanders here!

[Luminous Animal]

61. See you in the trenches!

[CountAllVotes]

217. Another 5th generation San Franciscan for Bernie Sanders here!!!

and YES!!!

& recommend!!

[yuiyoshida]

454. AND ME TOO!

and I been a democrat since I first registered to vote, at 18!

[F4lconF16]

30. Green party backing is something they should definitely consider.

I'm not convinced I should be investing my time in his campaign yet. I think my time is better spent elsewhere in my community and in the ISO up here in Seattle. I will be voting for him, though.

[Luminous Animal]

50. I figure that I can invest time in the early stages and then switch to local when those campaigns

heat up.

[merrily]

287. Do you have to register Dem to vote for Bernie in the primary?

In Massachusetts, we can vote in a Dem primary only if we are registered Dem or indie ("unenrolled," they call it here).

If we were registered Green, Green is the only primary we would be able to vote in.

[Luminous Animal]

291. It is a bit complicated in California. I can vote Dem IF the party, prior to election, designate

cross-party voting (and I request a Dem ballot). The Democratic Party ordinarily informs the secretary of state that they will allow but to be sure, I have already changed my registration.

[merrily]

295. Great. As I said on another thread, Bernie's run is doing great things for the party, including

causing a lot of people who had registered Indie or so-called "third" party to register Democratic again. Not to mention energizing those who had become disaffected entirely.

[merrily]

296. PS, It might be good to send the Democratic Party of California a reminder about allowing

the primary cross over for the 2016 primary. (It will be very interesting to see if it does this time.)

[Luminous Animal]

297. Good idea. And I will pass that to our Democrat club to pass that on to other state

Democratic clubs.

[Vincardog]

152. visit berniesanders.com and contribute I did.

[Jackpine Radical]

325. Yoda your archetypal form is.

I just realized, that Yoda in German syntactic patterns speaks.

[Stardust]

4. As much as I love Bernie, frankly I couldn't bear to watch him be torn apart like so many Dem

preidents have been in my lifetime. Purely selfish on my part, but I can't handle the acrimony anymore.

[Cosmic Kitten]

18. I know, right! Poor Hillary... emails, Benghazi, IWR, it's unrelenting!

[AgingAmerican]

47. Same will happen to any candidate

nt

[WillyT]

48. LOL !!! - HE... Is Gonna Get "Torn Apart" ???

He Speaks the truth.

Those that speak as politicians should watch the fuck out.

[Segami]

73. +1

[L0oniX]

97. +2

[gcomeau]

149. Speaking the truth is hardly a defense against getting torn apart.

If it was the GOP would no longer exist as a viable party. The truth as a defense requires a national press core who gives a shit about informing their viewers who's telling it instead of just broadcasting he-said-she-said false equivalencies for the drama of it all.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

279. President Obama still seems to be in one piece.

[gcomeau]

281. Which is not the equivalent of him never getting torn apart in the media. -eom

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

282. He seems no worse for wear to me.

[gcomeau]

283. Might want to check...

...the grey hairs and the significant minority of the country who think he's secretly plotting to enslave us all or something. That's a *little* the worse for wear...

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

284. My hair turned white before 50. And I think BO is a "sticks or stones" kinda guy.

[gcomeau]

285. It's not just about his feelings about it.

Millions of the people you're supposed to govern thinking you're secretly plotting to destroy the country is an issue all by itself.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

289. I think he understands that they are racists and rednecks

I really think he just "shakes it off", to paraphrase Taylor Swift. I absolutely agree that he has been attacked relentlessly like no other President before him, it's just the "torn apart" that I disagree with. Thankfully, Barack Obama is a very wise and strong individual.

[merrily]

288. It's what he wanted--twice. Loving a candidate too much to vote for him doesn't ring true.

[totodeinhere]

100. Bernie can handle himself just fine. I would not worry about that. n/t

[Stardust]

244. Ok, thank you. I get discouraged from time to time. Go Bernie, I've got your back. Let's do this! Nt

[AgingAmerican]

220. The GOP will be torn apart by Bernie

You have it backwards.

[grahamhgreen]

396. Oh yeah, they'll brand him a democratic socialist and he'll just smile;)

[MisterP]

426. he won't just smile ... he'll start EXPLAINING

[grahamhgreen]

432. Got to school some folks!

[Oilwellian]

5. tee hee n/t

[Luminous Animal]

52. you made me tee hee!

[Oilwellian]

204. I'm still tee hee'ing

[KMOD]

6. magically pick?

What do you want? A coronation?

[yuiyoshida]

7. I guess I am all in at this point..

at least until Clark Kent shows up... and throws his hat into the ring.

[Dragonfli]

10. OT - Who is that beautiful pop star in your sig line pic?

Do you have any music video links for her?

[yuiyoshida]

13. stop it...

I am not a pop star!

[Dragonfli]

15. If you can sing, the career is yours for the taking!

[yuiyoshida]

17. I don't sing...

In fact I sing horribly... so off key its not funny. My friend Lexxi wanted me to be a cam model, but I have a decent job.. and frankly I think she HAS A BETTER BODY and is cuter than I am!

LEXXI

[TheKentuckian]

85. I guess it is subjective but to these eyes you're cuter and it isn't particularly close.

[yuiyoshida]

186. She is quite a personallity

on line...I just think she is grand! I could never do that... even my other friends say they can throw clothes off in a second, and be comfortable with a live cam right there. I couldn't do that in a million years, but that's how they get paid.. doing silly stuff like that. I am glad they are happy with it, but it won't last long and few years, I am sure they will be ready to get out. Not only that, but I am sure, since the internet lasts forever, no matter where they go or what they do, the Naked Cam girl thing will follow them. For some, it may not be a problem, for others ..it might.

[hifiguy]

136. She's wrong.

If you were any cuter you'd be Fluttershy.

[yuiyoshida]

184. LOL

okay, if you say so

[Scootaloo]

34. He's not eligible; he's literally an illegal alien

From the planet krypton

[yuiyoshida]

46. While that is techncally true....

NO ONE IN METROPOLIS KNOWS WHO CLARK KENT IS... right???

[arcane1]

59. Not unless we see a long-form birth certificate!

[yuiyoshida]

78. Maybe the Kents

got one! Old Pa Kent, might have had connections at City Hall!

[bvar22]

117. If Superman flies around the Earth fast enough (past the speed of light),

he can go back in time and write out a birth certificate.


Geez. I thought everybody knew this.

[Stryder]

156. Now that you mention it..

I've never seen Bernie without his glasses. Hmmmm...

[yuiyoshida]

189. oh that would be interesting...

I wonder if a PRESIDENT COULD TAKE off their glasses and Jump into action to save the world?
Do you think so???

[orpupilofnature57]

153. Superman ever been invited, and attended a Bilderberg conference ???

[yuiyoshida]

185. You would have to ask the folks at DC ... or

go to GOTHAM and personally ask THE BAT!

[jberryhill]

8. That's an interesting question

There's a lot to like about both of them.

[Dem2]

9. If such a choice were possible?

Bernie.

[Dragonfli]

12. It is a choice in the Democratic primary, Bernie is running!!!! /nt

[Dem2]

19. The question was if I could magically pick the winner of the primary and general...

who would I pick?

Bernie,

or Warren if she ran.

At this point in time I am relatively certain I'll be voting for Hillary in the general, but this is just my sense of things.

[Dragonfli]

21. Cast your primary vote for who you want and hope for the best! /nt

[Dem2]

22. I'm looking forward to it ;) nt

[SheilaT]

14. Actually, Elizabeth Warren is my first choice, but I'd be happy with Bernie.

What bothers me so much about Hillary Clinton is the assumption on the part of her supporters that she simply deserves the nomination this time, and anyone who disagrees is a pile of shit. And should sit down and shut the fuck up.

What we need more than anything, in my opinion, are new people in the race. And even though Bernie Sanders has been in politics since 1981 (from what I read on Wikipedia), and even though he's over 70, he comes across as a fresh, new voice. He comes across as someone who really cares about the working and middle classes, and has little use for the very wealthy.

I will volunteer for him until such time as Elizabeth Warren may declare her candidacy.

If nothing else, he will bring a genuine debate to the primary season.

[Logical]

16. Great points! Nt

[awoke_in_2003]

102. If she loses the primaries again

I am taking a break from here. PUMA 2016 will make PUMA 2008 seem tame.

[denverbill]

103. Sanders/Warren 2016? I'd be happy. n/t

[nationalize the fed]

20. Sanders/Warren 2016

[WDIM]

183. That would be a dream ticket.

Lets make it happen!

[HereSince1628]

224. That'd be hard for the real progressive cause in the senate

[merrily]

311. Agree. VP versus popular, high profile, liberal Senator? I'd stay in the Senate.

[mvd]

23. If I could choose, definitely Sanders

I know it will be hard to beat Hillary, but I agree with others that she should not be handed the nomination. I think Hillary would win and she knows the Repukes' attacks very well. I don't know if Sanders would win. But philosophically, I am with Bernie. I hope all those running for the Democratic nomination run positive campaigns.

[treestar]

25. I'd pick a Democratic Congress

Still thinking the Presidency is all powerful and magical and the right POTUS can solve everything.

[Blanks]

90. There you go...

And if Bernie leaves congress where is all the legislation that he wants to see going to come from?

Hillary's seat won't come up for election because she's not holding a seat. Bernie will bring a lot to the debate, but the republican machine will tear him apart if he's the nominee. The Clintons are numb to the republican machine.

Wanting to do the right thing isn't enough. There's a skill set that the president needs to posess that has more to do with psychological toughness than it has to do with ethical considerations.

Look at how much the office has changed Obama. There were a lot of things that he wanted to do, but without control of congress - there isn't much any president can do.

[John Poet]

28. That's some amazing poll numbers...

somewhat surprising to me, considering all the "sit and down and shut up for Hillary" that goes on in here... I would have thought her supporters to be much more numerous. Maybe they're only real loud.

90 to 10 for Bernie?

[magical thyme]

82. "Maybe they're only real loud."

This. And some of them are very new here and suddenly very "popular" (ie, visible everywhere and extra-talented at schmoozing) and therefore somewhat suspect in my mind. Thinking ptp.

[Ms. Toad]

218. That was my reaction, too.

For the same reason.

[Ed Suspicious]

29. Bernie in a heartbeat.

[Ed Suspicious]

31. These results are really something. The minority of Hillary supporters sure do make a metric ton of

noise.

[Logical]

32. +1000 nt

[liberal_at_heart]

33. not once you put them on ignore. lol.

[Ed Suspicious]

67. .

[L0oniX]

105. LMAO

[KMOD]

38. Really?

[joshcryer]

66. I don't see a lot of Clinton supporters names in there.

Maybe they haven't voted yet or maybe they aren't dignifying it with a response (or maybe they're ignoring the OP).

[merrily]

315. You don't?

[joshcryer]

319. Another response a week+ later.

I have an official stalker, folks.

[hrmjustin]

108. Would you prefer we leave?

[Ed Suspicious]

113. Not at all. Just commenting that you all sound a lot bigger than you are.

I prefer you vote your conscience in the primary then get on board the Bernie express in the general.

[hrmjustin]

114. We are bigger in the party.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

267. and the country. just not du. especially in a poll about magically picking candidates. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

125. Of course they would because they are bullies at heart...

Look at all the mocking and baiting of her supporters here...


i subscribe to what my best friend says about the net...It's not what you do on the internet that matters but the shit you do in real life.

[hrmjustin]

127. I noticed that some posters are thrilled that the Sanders group has more subscribers than...

..the HRC room. I wonder if the get a free toaster.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

129. I am not going to denigrate Senator Sanders or his supporters...

I don't expect that courtesy to be returned over the "internets" but I have no doubt it would be returned in real life.

[hrmjustin]

130. Sanders is a classy guy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. I like a lot of his ideas and find him to lack pretense or artifice.

I will leave it at that.

[tridim]

166. I wanted to join the HRC group but was banned before I had the chance.

Banned because I asked a question.

Maybe that's why the HRC group isn't growing.

[hrmjustin]

168. The HRC room is for supporters.

[tridim]

169. I was undecided at the time I was banned.

And was banned before she even announced.

Despite this, I continue to support Hillary's run for President.

[hrmjustin]

170. You can petition the head host to unban you.

[Metric System]

142. Yes they would, even though I'm sure they'll say otherwise. DU has long been inhospitable to

Hillary supporters, probably now more than ever. The antipathy toward her here is in direct contrast to multiple polls showing her popularity among Democrats.

[hrmjustin]

143. Well we are not going anywhere and they will just have to deal with it.

[Metric System]

146. Damn right.

[hrmjustin]

147. .

[Beacool]

175. Hear, hear!!!

Then again, what does it matter? This place is the reverse coin of the Freepers. They live in their own world, where someone like Sanders is a viable candidate who can win a general election.

[geek tragedy]

119. Viability in the general election is a valid concern that's explicitly excluded

from consideration in this poll.

So, the actual decision-making process gets more nuanced.

[peacebird]

151. An HRC nom will bring every R out to vote against her.

Many progressives will refuse to vote for her. End result? HRC loses.

[Marr]

229. I agree with you. I don't think she can win nationally, unless her opponent is someone

so extreme that they alienate everyone from GW Bush leftward.

A Hillary nomination would energize the right like nothing else-- and it will sap the hope out of a big portion of the left. I mean, there's a reason Obama beat her so handily when his actual policy positions ended up being more or less identical. He didn't have two decades of record behind him, so he could reasonably pretend to be a liberal. Hillary cannot do that.

[L0oniX]

365. So the GOP wants her to run. Wow ...that's what I call a centrists dream.

[peacebird]

227. I think Hillary is vulnerable because her nom will bring every R out to vote against her.

I think when people hear Bernie, they like what they hear. He is authentic, the real deal.

[still_one]

403. and DU represents the majority view of all Democrats by your inference

[Fearless]

35. Well that's awkward!

I guess I should sit back down because clearly Bernie has no momentum at all.

[Ed Suspicious]

37. To be fair it's a web poll and I don't see some of the people whom I know are H supporters

but this is one hell of an indication that we're sick and tired of status quo.

[Fearless]

39. It shows momentum as I said. Otherwise people wouldn't care.

Clearly people care.

[KMOD]

40. Yes, this poll is definitive.

Cancel the primaries. It's over folks. lol

[Fearless]

42. You are thinking I said what you wanted me to say. Which, in fact I didn't.

I said it shows Bernie has momentum. FULL STOP.

Have a good night.

[KMOD]

44. I'm gonna wait for the polls.

I'm very curious to see his bump.

Bernie has been winning DU polls for months now, yet it's not showing up in the national polls.

FULL STOP, lol

good night.

[arcane1]

63. He isn't appearing on television very much yet, so beyond DU he's still unkown.

That changes after today's announcement

[PatrickforO]

70. Yeah, he's only unknown because the media doesn't cover what he says.

But he'll drive the Democratic dialog to the left, where it belongs. I've had a gutful of corporate shills. ALL the Republicans are that, and far too many Dems. We need a populist in there. And we need to elect a bunch of populists to Congress.

[AtomicKitten]

41. Great poll. Bravo, DU.

[Geronimoe]

43. What if

What if Bernie asks Elizabeth Warren to VP?

[AtheistCrusader]

55. I detonate with sheer joy.

[awoke_in_2003]

104. Then we lose two good senators

That wouldn't be good, IMO

[joshcryer]

45. If Hillary keeps it up it'll be a coin toss.

A nice rebuff of TPP would bring her over the top since she'd have a better chance getting the party back in power.

[zeemike]

56. Would anyone believe her if she did?

Considering that she was for it before she was against it and Bill gave us NAFTA.
I think her best bet is to try to sell it like Obama is doing, and hope we fall for it again.

[joshcryer]

60. Once it comes out, she can make a case.

Do a speech like she did on women issues or as she did today about our prison state.

In that 60-90 day timeframe there's a vote on it she can go through it and say where she disagrees with it. Even if it passes at least she'd be on record being against those aspects of it.

But I don't see that happening, just fyi, but I'd believe her if she gave a substantive speech on it. I think she'll just differ to Obama and leave open the possibility to "fix" any of its problems.

[zeemike]

68. How many believe her prison speech?

She was in the senate where she could have had an impact and she was silent then...and it is not like this just happened in the last year or so...it has been going on for decades, as long as she has been in politics.

Not everyone just believes the things politicians say in speeches...not me for sure, I judge them by what they do and have done.

[joshcryer]

74. Eh, she's been saying this stuff for awhile.

It's not new or controversial at all: http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_Dems_Brown_Black_Hillary_Clinton.htm

What's important is that she's making a national speech in a time of crisis and not backing away from it or waiting a few weeks to get the message down. She likely had the speech written up the night of the riots or the next day. Like Brooklynite said, they aren't getting much sleep.

A lot of the stuff people say Clinton doesn't champion or hasn't championed is just silliness, she's a Democrat, if it's part of the platform, she likely supports it.

What's interesting is how she channeled inequality in the speech, not just mass incarceration, but economic inequality, talking about how in less than a 5 mile radius between two areas in Baltimore life expectancy dropped 20 percent.

If you look at her crime and civil liberties votes they're not too shabby:

http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/55463/hillary-clinton/20/crime

http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/55463/hillary-clinton/13/civil-liberties-and-civil-rights

[Fumesucker]

80. The Democrats including Clinton are still in favor of the drug war

And until the drug war ~ends~ the status quo on mass incarceration and civil liberties will change only minutely if at all.

[joshcryer]

81. That remains to be seen.

The "non-violent offender" rhetoric may signal an anti-drug war stance. At least in the case of marijuana, which is going to almost certainly be a party plank (4 states legalized it, the delegates can put it in the platform trivially in a late night DNC vote).

[Fumesucker]

83. What I see happening is that cannabis will be "legalized"...

But the legal product will be so expensive that the black market will continue which will provide justification for crackdowns. We see the same thing going on with cigarettes to some extent, illegal cigarettes were the original justification for what happened to Eric Garner.

The drug war is part of the national security state and a national security state is a one way ratchet that only tightens and never loosens short of major societal upheaval.

[joshcryer]

86. That's sort of happening now.

Especially in Washington, but in Colorado it's not worth it, and people are "growing their own." Colorado has a decent system and reports have shown that it has already eaten in to Mexico cartels.

The eventuality is that the big cigarette companies start lobbying for legalization of weed and they'll likely succeed. It's not really that controversial of a position now. I expect Clinton to at least say "we'll reschedule if the state experiment works." And late into her second term she'll reschedule. (By then a half dozen if not a dozen other states will have legalized.)

It won't be some bold thing, I'm just saying. Non-violent offenders are mostly marijuana mules. So supporting getting those guys out of prison is indirect support.

[Fumesucker]

92. Oh, they'll take the "grow your own" away soon enough

We'll never get that where I live anyway, far too socially conservative. They might "legalize" it but they'll never allow it to the point people can have it without big corporations profiting hugely somewhere.

Not to mention that a surprisingly large portion of the economy is based on prison labor now and states have signed contracts guaranteeing a certain level of incarceration to the private prison corporations.

I don't think it's possible to end the mass incarceration, it's entirely too much a part of the social fabric now and if they let all those nonviolent offenders out of prison think what it will do to the unemployment numbers, both from prisoners out on the street and from guards and other staff who are no longer needed.

[zeemike]

91. You mean the last time she was running for POTUS?

But not as Senator?

Q: Some people say your husband’s crime bill is one of the primary factors behind the rising incarceration rate for blacks and Latinos. It earmarked $8 billion dollars for prisons and continued a trend to harsher sentencing. Do you regret how this has affected the black community?
A: I think that the results--not only at the federal level but at the state level--have been an unacceptable increase in incarceration across the board & now we have to address that. At the time, there were reasons why the Congress wanted to push through a certain set of penalties and increase prison construction and there was a lot of support for that across a lot of communities. It’s hard to remember now but the crime rate in the early 1990s was very high. But we’ve got to take stock now of the consequences, so that’s why I want to have a thorough review of all of the penalties, of all the kinds of sentencing, and more importantly start having more diversion and having more second chance programs.

Source: 2007 Iowa Brown & Black Presidential Forum Dec 1, 2007

On Drugs: Reduce sentencing disparity for crack, but not retroactively
Q: The US Sentencing Commission recently limited the disparity in sentencing guidelines for those convicted of crimes involving crack cocaine versus crimes involving powder cocaine. Should that change be retroactive?
A: I believe we’ve got to decrease the disparity that exists. It is really unconscionable that someone who uses five grams of crack cocaine, compared to 500 grams of powder cocaine would face such disparate sentencing. And it’s further compounded because the possession of crack cocaine really is unique in the way that it leads directly to prison for so many people. So I am going to tackle the disparity. I think it definitely needs to be prospective on principle. I have problems with retroactivity. I think that it’s something that a lot of communities will be concerned about as well, so let’s tackle this disparity, let’s take it on. The sentencing commission hasn’t come forward yet with its specific recommendation but I’m looking forward to seeing it.

Source: 2007 Iowa Brown & Black Presidential Forum Dec 1, 2007

[Cosmic Kitten]

109. She's got her eye on the issue! lol

The sentencing commission hasn’t come forward yet with its specific recommendation but I’m looking forward to seeing it.

Reminds me of the TPP BS statement

Among other things that Clinton will be "watching closely," she wants to see "what is being done to crack down on currency manipulation."

She's really good at "watching" and "listening tours".
Solving problems, meh

[merrily]

304. Posted like a true Bernie supporter since Day1!

[joshcryer]

313. Bernie is against TPP.

As am I.

Clinton has waffled about "making jobs." She has not come out against it, though I think she should.

Otherwise they have yet to substantially differentiate themselves.

Feel free to add me to the private message cliques and criticisms for the ensuing witch hunts. Sanders' positions are clearly better than Clinton's, so far. If Clinton comes out strongly against the TPP, then I will be fine with her as a nominee. Big deal.

Fascinating 1 week 2 day old response though, I wonder what is going on, with a thread this old getting kicked and random people being harassed by regulars? Perhaps to put it in Google search records to slander anyone who dares disagree on some minor issue?

[merrily]

316. Dude, what on earth are you going on about?

Never mind.

[joshcryer]

320. Damn straight nevermind.

[grahamhgreen]

397. love to see it!

[still_one]

51. Whoever the Democratic nominee is

[mylye2222]

57. Not really

People are just tired of Center right policies. And also I do think the corruption doubts on the Clintons plays a part of it.

[AgingAmerican]

62. We don't play into 'corruption doubts'

Because there are none. Of course the GOP is trying to push lies, but we don't care about what they think.

[Logical]

93. Nope, the DU knows Hillary is not a true liberal! Nt

[Iwillnevergiveup]

64. Well, it's at least refreshing

to know truly what you're getting with candidate Bernie.

[chknltl]

65. BEST POLL EVER!!!

nuff said

[PatrickforO]

69. It's a no-brainer. Bernie, of course.

[tokenlib]

71. I'm for Bernie, but this poll shocks me...

...are all the Hillary people on vacation??

[LWolf]

87. It's not shocking.

While there are more centrists here than there used to be, DU still has a strong contingent of those left of the status quo.

Early DU polls in '08 had both Obama and HRC running at the bottom...and Dennis Kucinich was the first choice, followed closely by Edwards.

[MelungeonWoman]

95. No, they're all voting on this poll...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026594106

[Octafish]

121. They can only vote once.

But they are free to post as much as they want about their candidate, which is good.

As for the poll: I am very gratified so many are willing to stand up and be counted. Hope more Democrats take note and more Democrats enter the race for the nomination.

[cherokeeprogressive]

290. I think in the context of this poll they "took their ball and went home". n/t

[merrily]

306. Do you think your needs, wants and dreams are that different from those of other USians?

[grahamhgreen]

398. They're all the same people, I think!

[Cheese Sandwich]

399. The DU polls usually seem like Bernie has more support on DU.

Maybe Hillary posters make more posts so it seems like there are more of them

[chknltl]

72. I hope Thom Hartmann mentions this poll

He oftentimes cites things he sees here at DU. I am quite sure it should bring a smile to his friend Senator Sanders

[Warren DeMontague]

75. I want to hear their actual positions on a number of issues, before I decide.

I am glad Sen. Sanders is in, though.

[Ed Suspicious]

94. behold

http://www.ontheissues.org/house/Bernie_Sanders.htm

[Warren DeMontague]

124. I am a bit of a political junkie, so I am familiar with Bernie's track record.

And, en masse, I like it.

I'm likewise familiar with the track records of HRC, Webb, O'Malley (to some extent) etc.

Still, there will be a primary process, there will be debates, and during this cycle the candidates will most likely both update their stances, add new ones, AND hopefully address some pressing issues relevant to 2016.

For instance, right now 3 states and DC have legalized marijuana for recreational use. It is entirely likely that come 2016 additional states, including California, will join them. Any potential chief executive will need, in my mind, to address the question of marijuana legalization. The days of politicians being able to laugh it off or ignore it, are over.

That's just one example. Beyond that, I see no need to commit to a candidate at this early date, other than to simplify matters for DU members who want to easily identify which 'team' someone is on.

I will say I have very good impressions of Sen. Sanders, and this comment:

"I voted against the war in Iraq," he said. "Secretary Clinton voted for it"

certainly summarizes a salient, early argument in his favor.

[RiverLover]

76. R&K Would love to see Bernie in the WH! /nt

[Recursion]

77. Don't know enough about Sanders's administration skills.

I can't answer until I see how good Sanders is at administering a large organization, handling the national media, and juggling multiple balls at the same time. Which is why it's a good thing there are campaigns.

[magical thyme]

84. actually, the first is just making good hiring decisions. As to handling the media...

&feature=player_embedded

&feature=player_embedded

more here:
https://berniesanders.com/blog/

He's been out there a lot; they respect him. His answers are sharp, clear, on target and he doesn't mince words.

[TBF]

410. Well he's been in Congress 24 years -

which is much more than we had with Obama - or Hillary for that matter. I don't think she's run a large organization either. Unless you count the stint on the Board of Directors of Walmart (6 years - 1986-92).

But waiting to see how they operate their campaigns isn't a bad idea if you're on the fence.

[Ed Suspicious]

414. Mayor of a city should allow people to see some administrative chops.

[MannyGoldstein]

79. So it's true what I read here.

DU is now filled with Libertarians.

[Warren Stupidity]

88. dreamers and fools too.

You know we can't have a candidate who actually supports traditional democratic programs and policies. That's just crazy nonsense. We need Yet Another Center Right Corporate Stooge, those are the rules of The Raw Deal.

Plus Bernie is too old, unlike Hillary.

Dennis Kucinich.

Nader.

Hippie <= punch here.

[L0oniX]

98. Yer bad!

[pampango]

89. Bernie in this binary world of the primary. Either of them in the real world of the general. n/t

[Rex]

96. Wow! DUers choose Bernie over HRC 10 to 1?

I have to admit, I am a little surprised at those numbers.

[totodeinhere]

101. Yes and it's very significant. People who participate at DU are more likely to be opinion

makers. We are the ones who go out and work for our candidates. Now it's our job to let every Democrat know that Clinton is not inevitable and we do have a choice. Then Clinton and Sanders need to be compared issue by issue.

[Rex]

144. Very true, every election cycle I drive carloads of people to vote that cannot make it.

Either they are too poor or their car is in that bad of shape. We all do our part, very true about DU. We are all political junkies lol.

[Daniel537]

106. Bernie, not even close. n/t

[Cosmic Kitten]

107. Tally looks like the disparity between the HRC room membership and DU in general

[Logical]

110. Good point! Nt

[lovemydog]

111. Bernie, with 535 in Congress like him.

[Melissa G]

112. Bernie!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

115. But..but...Hillary has the support of 80-150% of liberals!!

Which means, obviously, that DU isn't liberal or progressive. Right?

[BrotherIvan]

260. lol

The rest of us are LLLs (left-leaning libertarians). Because if you don't get on the third way bandwagon, you're gonna get crushed.

[hifiguy]

116. 90% Bernie as of this typing.

Speaks for itself, doesn't it?

[Eleanors38]

118. Bernie.

[tridim]

120. Wow, I really didn't expect this result.

Mile wide, inch deep.

[Metric System]

134. Oh no, she's losing an unscientific online poll! She's DOOMED!!!

[tridim]

167. She's not doomed, she's just not attracting support on DU.

Even unscientifically, it's an important and interesting result, and a big problem for her second attempt at "inevitability".

[chknltl]

123. Kicked

[cantbeserious]

126. Bernie - Bernie - Bernie

eom

[orpupilofnature57]

128. For those with ears listen, and with clear eyes, look .

If this poll was the election, we'd actually have a shot at turning this Mess around .

[Metric System]

132. If you ever needed proof that DU exists in its own bubble, this is it.

[Logical]

133. LOL, if you need proof Hillary supporters are jealous of Bernie, your post is it! nt

[Metric System]

138. Are you actually arguing that this poll means anything outside of DU?

[Logical]

140. So the DU is a magical place that only attracts bernie supporters? Or that we know Hillary....

is not a real liberal?

[Metric System]

145. DU attracts people that tend to be further to the left than most Democratic voters. You say that

Hillary is not a real liberal as if opinions are facts.

[sabrina 1]

199. If it were the other way around, all of a sudden DU would be representative of the country

in general.

I've definitely seen this so many times.

DU is either 'irrelevant' or it 'speaks for the base' depending on how the polls go.

What is actually means is that those who are to the Left on DU have not been as vocal as those who claim the country is not Left leaning but Centrist.

In RL polls, that is not true either. All Polling shows that the country is definitely Left on the issues.

Bernie may just be the right person to take advantage of that fact. He certainly knows about it. And he knows that the Independent vote is now 42%, another fact he has mentioned, Gallop shows that a majority are now left leaning.

I have a feeling he's going to going after that vote.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

268. no, there is no proof of this, and much proof of the other statement.

HRC statistically leads other democrats by giant margins, and this poll here shows the opposite, providing proof that Du i not representative of the overall party.

there is no proof of your statement thought, it's merely an allegation

[PowerToThePeople]

135. Or maybe

It is you who is in the bubble.

[Metric System]

139. My bubble will burst IF he can pulls these numbers in a real poll. I'm waiting...

[hrmjustin]

137. If it were a scientific poll I would be worried.

[Beacool]

177. Yep, you said it...........

"A McClatchy-Marist poll released Monday lists Sanders as receiving 4 percent support among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents for the 2016 presidential nomination. Hillary Clinton leads with 64 percent, followed by Vice President Joe Biden at 15 percent and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren at 8 percent. Sanders fared better than Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley's 2 percent and former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb's 1 percent."

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2014/10/06/sanders-poll/16826357/

[Metric System]

192. It's amazing how some on DU have managed to belittle and demonize Hillary supporters when their

candidate of choice has FOUR percent support outside of this bubble. It's like upside down world here.

[LondonReign2]

200. Your poll was from Oct. 6th, 2014

So, umm, yeah.

[Beacool]

206. Read this one then, same difference.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16dem.htm

[LondonReign2]

212. So what you are telling me is that in April the only declared candidate was way ahead?

So, umm, yeah.

[ladjf]

182. I wouldn't describe the preference for Sanders as a "bubble" but

rather as "a concentration of level headed and caring citizens".

[Metric System]

191. So Hillary supporters aren't level headed and caring, even though we comprise the majority of

Democratic party supporters in the real world?

[ladjf]

225. You read a whole lot more into what I said than I was thinking when

I wrote.

[TheKentuckian]

275. No, corporations are amoral and wars are wicked, my friend.

[undeterred]

141. If I could perform magic I would make Bernie a woman and vote for her.

Or maybe I would make Hillary more like Bernie.

[PassingFair]

148. Haha..47 seven votes for Hillary!

...and Vanilla Rhapsody probably voted twice!



An indication that we have been STARVING for ANY progressive
to announce.

[Pooka Fey]

150. K&R

Bernie at 90%

[mountain grammy]

154. I had to think about it, for about half a second..

Bernie!

[merrily]

317. Really? That long?

[Stryder]

157. A snipet of my FB post on Bernies presser.

TPTB ain't just gonna swiftboat him
he's gonna get greasedlightningboated. He's gonna get
thermonucleardeviceboated.
But he's got my vote.

[Logical]

158. +1000 nt

[chknltl]

159. kicked again.

Lol, interested at this point to see if Clinton can reach 100 before Sanders reaches 1000.

[Logical]

160. LOL, I doubt it! nt

[Art_from_Ark]

309. Right now, they're neck-and-neck, neck-and-neck,

Bernie as he approaches the 1000-vote goal, and Hillary as she approaches the 100-vote goal.

[chknltl]

161. Getting a kick out of this.

[Logical]

171. Me too! nt

[herding cats]

162. I'd pick Bernie.

I wish picking our president were as simple a choice as just choosing between Bernie and Hillary and it would become a reality. More often than not it's not even a "thing" anymore by the time I cast my primary vote for our candidate.

[Jamastiene]

164. Wow!

All this time, I thought DU was pretty evenly divided between centrists/conservatives and liberals. Now, I see the centrists and conservatives only make up about 10%. They sure do make a lot of noise on here to only be 10%.

[chknltl]

165. 'nother lil kick before I turn off the ol brain for the night

[chknltl]

172. .

[workinclasszero]

173. Hillary

The only democratic candidate that can win the presidency in 2016.

And this country desperately needs the democratic party to win big in 2016.

[Beacool]

174. The results are not surprising considering that this is DU.

Now conduct that poll in the real world and let's see what results you get.

This is like conducting a poll on Free Republic with the two choices being Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz. Cruz would win by a country mile. Does it really mean anything? Nope, nada, zilch.

[cali]

178. It doesn't mean much, but it's not utterly meaningless.

What is more interesting is watching her move toward positions that Bernie has long held and that are very popular- out in the real world.

She'll most likely be the candidate, and if she isn't, it will be her own doing. It'll be interesting watching HRC try to pivot back in the General. Remember that comment she made about how we need to "topple the 1%"? She's going to have to wriggle out of that one, for example.

[Beacool]

188. Primaries are for the base of the party, the GE is for the nation at large.

All candidates have to do a balancing act between their base and the people they need to vote for them, outside their base, in the general election.

[cali]

179. It doesn't mean much, but it's not utterly meaningless.

What is more interesting is watching her move toward positions that Bernie has long held and that are very popular- out in the real world.

She'll most likely be the candidate, and if she isn't, it will be her own doing. It'll be interesting watching HRC try to pivot back in the General. Remember that comment she made about how we need to "topple the 1%"? She's going to have to wriggle out of that one, for example.

[Logical]

181. LOL, i agree, real world meaning wall street! Nt

[Beacool]

187. Real world meaning actual Democratic voters.

[Logical]

193. Get ready for disappointment. I think she will run a terrible campaign in the GE. nt

[Beacool]

202. I guess you prefer a Republican to win the presidency.

This place has become a joke.........

[Logical]

207. Lol, if I wanted the GOP to win I would not be worried about....

Hillary being a terrible candidate! Wow, think a little harder!

[Beacool]

211. I think that it's you who needs to think a little harder.

The same goes for those here who think that Sanders has a remote chance of ever becoming president. Hillary may or may not win the presidency in 2016, but I'm 100% sure that Sanders won't ever become the nominee.

[Logical]

214. If she wins the nomination i will of course vote for her.....

But I will be the first time ever that I've been totally drunk on election day!

[liberal_at_heart]

210. how many times are we going to have to listen to this tired old line? Time to use the ignore

button yet again.

[PassingFair]

197. Nothing....

Just a sample of educated voters.

Carry on.

[Beacool]

203. A minority within the party.

Carry on....

[LondonReign2]

241. Just remember that we are a tiny minority when your preferred conservative candidates

get swept again at election time. Sorry, can't blame us since we are such an inconsequential minority.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

369. "Now conduct that poll in the real world..."

Wall Street isn't the real world.

And why are you conflating Cruz with Independent Sanders?

[darkangel218]

176. K&R!

Woot!

[ladjf]

180. I'm encouraged by the large majority on DU that preferred Sanders

over Clinton. I'm surprised that we have such a majority of humanistic minded members.

I'm sure that Ms. Clinton also cares about Americans. But, Sen. Sanders has worked harder throughout his career to improve conditions for all of our citizens.

Either candidate would be far better than any of the Republicans.

[AtomicKitten]

190. k

[democrat2thecore]

194. Take this as a hint Ms. Clinton

There are more than two families who can offer up presidential candidates.
Tired of fake.
Tired of phony.
Tired of great candidates, but bought off presidents.
----------------
B E R N I E - 2 0 1 6

[ucrdem]

195. Easy. I picked the Dem.

[Logical]

198. +1000 nt

[PassingFair]

196. Kick

[Spider Jerusalem]

201. If I could magically pick the next president?

Someone who combines FDR's willingness to try new solutions with Bill Clinton's charisma, JFK's oratorical skill, and LBJ's ability to push things through Congress. Know anyone like that? Since whoever it is is not going to be much use if 1) the American people aren't on their side and 2) they can't get anything done.

[zappaman]

205. To that I would add Abe Lincoln's hat

Bad.
Ass.

[sabrina 1]

209. I'll take Bernie. Charisma to me is honesty, integrity, courage, strength of character.

And being right on the issues.

Bernie has been said to be carrying that banner of FDR, he is a great speaker because he believes in what he says and that sincerity comes across, as it did this week when he was speaking to the media, especially to Chuck Todd, who tried to get him to talk about Hillary.

As President I have a feeling he will have LBJ's ability to push his agenda through.

As for Clinton's charisma, for me again, that was because I believed he meant what he said, and on some things, he did, but then I was pretty naive at that time. His Welfare Reform hurt so many people, and his deregulation of Wall St, contributed to more hurt for so many people, not to mention deregulating the media.

So now I look at their records if they have one, and if they appear to be altering their views in order to get elected, it doesn't matter how attractive or how much charisma they have, to me they are just another politician.

[Marr]

208. Holy shit, am I reading those numbers right?

The Hillary fans are an even smaller group here than I thought they were.

Christ, they make a lot of noise.

[peacebird]

228. That's what amazed me too... LOL! In real world Bernie raised more $$$ in first 24 hours than any R

AND Hillary's team refused to answer how much SHE raised in first 24 hours after announcing.

[Autumn]

213. This poll is quite the shocker.

Amazing.

[Iggo]

215. In a choice straight up between Clinton and Sanders, I'd choose Sanders.

[MadrasT]

216. K&R because this is amazing. n/t

[onehandle]

221. A reminder that in 2008, John Edwards won these polls at DU.

Even for a couple of weeks after he dropped out.

[PeaceNikki]

235. I would argue it was Kucinich.

[FSogol]

385. I agree Kucinich had the supermajority of DU support.

How did Kucinich do?

[DirkGently]

222. Interesting. n/t

[nashville_brook]

223. k and r for Bernie!

[The Second Stone]

226. I like the things Sanders says

just like I like the things people on DU say. I like the things Clinton has done.

[Cal33]

231. I also like the way Sanders has consistently voted.

[Cal33]

230. As I have noted earlier, I beieve there are more Progressives in DU than in the general

population. It would nice if there were more Progressives in the general population also,
but I don't think there are.

[The Second Stone]

232. Most of the general population is turned off by politics

and don't want to vote, and many that do vote consider it a chore. Neither Sanders nor Clinton can get elected unless they get the votes, and that requires registration efforts now.

[Cal33]

243. I believe there are people working at getting more of the population to register. At the

present time, roughly 40% of the people bother to vote. I remember having read about
50 years ago that in Australia 95% of the people voted. Main reason: those who
didn't vote and had no good reason had to pay a 5-pound fine. 5 pounds was quite a
sum then.

Maybe we should do something like the above.

[chknltl]

233. Kicked

[PeaceNikki]

234. Kucinich would have kicked Obama's ass here in 2007.

[Maedhros]

236. Why have the Lesser of Two Evils, when you can have someone Good? [n/t]

[The Second Stone]

238. When has that ever happened in presidential electoral politics?

A pony is not going to win in a two round tournament with thoroughbreds. Why would you invest the future of your country in a candidate that is only going to get 35 percent of the vote? We tried that with McGovern, and we got Nixon. Some tried that with Ralph Nader in 2000, and we got Bush. We have a responsibility to the rest of the nation to compromise to prevent the worst. The person with the most electoral votes controls the executive branch for the next four years and makes the appointments. Obama has been a mixed bag, a compromise, but one that is far better for us than McCain or Romney would have been.

By all means, advocate and vote for Bernie Sanders, but please don't allow a repeat of Nixon/McGovern. We don't want another Nixon.

[Maedhros]

245. Your attitude sickens me.

Bye.

[The Second Stone]

248. Nixon, Reagan and Bush sickened me

I fell for the vote for the unicorn crap in 1980 when I supported John Anderson as a young man. It took me years to figure out that I'd been played. I don't know if Anderson ever figured it out or if he was in on it. Nader knew and did it anyway because it would make things worse. The reason Elizabeth Warren doesn't run this time is because she has figured out that the three playered gamed is rigged. Bernie Sanders is a good man and a smart man. I hope he isn't convinced to be a spoiler after the primary. If he wins the primary, I'll vote for him. 1912, 1948, 1968 and 1992 also had spoilers in the races. They did the job against the coalition they were supposedly supporting.

[lovemydog]

298. Whoa, let's get the history correct here.

Hubert Humphrey, the mainstream democratic party candidate and nominee, gave us Nixon in 1968.

[Art_from_Ark]

303. And McGovern was running against an entrenched,

no-holds-barred dirty trickster who went so far as to have his henchmen burglarize the national headquarters of the Democratic Party just a few months before the election.

And to seal the deal, Nixon and Kissinger announced in October 1972 that an agreement to end American involvement in the Vietnam War was imminent. That announcement right there was enough to win large numbers of votes from newly-minted 18-to-20-year-old voters (not to mention the parents of draft-age males).

[The Second Stone]

305. George Wallace was run as an American Independent to get the racists

to vote for him instead of a Democratic candidate back when no self respecting racist southerner would vote Republican. It's called the Southern Strategy. So, yes, let's get history correct. They killed Bobby Kennedy to keep him from getting the nomination, and then split the vote on Humphrey.

[Art_from_Ark]

307. I knew people in Arkansas who had supported Bobby Kennedy,

but then voted for Wallace. And the state gave its 6 electoral votes to Wallace (while also electing a progressive Republican governor and a liberal Democratic senator)

[The Second Stone]

321. Yep. Splitting the vote is a disaster for the portion of the electorate doing it.

Ralph Nader deliberately threw the election to Bush. The candidate usually knows exactly what he (and now she!) is doing. The electorate is not as sophisticated. I'll support the party nominee this time around. If Sanders gets the nomination, then he is my candidate.

[merrily]

318. You are repeating memes designed to take the country right. No Presidential election is explained

that facilely. There were a lot of factors, not simply McGovern's liberality. The same with Reagan's defeat of Carter. No, it was NOT because a primary challenge is a sin. And the Supreme Court gave us Bush, after many more Democrats in Florida crossed over to vote for Dimson than crossed over to vote for Nader.

I don't know why some DUers want to pretend that these facile memes are truths chiseled by God in stone and handed down to Moses on the mountain, but they are not chiseled in stone or anything close to accurate or sophisticated political analysis. To the contrary, they are oversimplified to a laughable extreme. Made up bs to keep the country moving right, no matter which party wins. Koch brothers wet dream, which is why they helped found BOTH the DLC and the Tea Party, but starting with the DLC.

[chknltl]

237. This poll sheds light on the elephant in DU's room

I'll say it: those paying attention recognize that our capitalism has over-run our democracy. There is no doubt by anyone here that the Republican Party is bought out lock, stock and barrel by the highest bidders, that our media serves as a propaganda tool for the capitalists who over-run our democracy. It is clear to see that these same forces are strong within our democratic party as well. This poll makes it painfully obvious that DUers recognize this, don't want to submit to these forces and I believe that we are ready for the fight we know is coming.

If you are seeing this Senator Sanders, The Democratic Underground has heard your words, we share/have always shared your vision of democracy, WE ARE BEHIND YOU SIR.

[Logical]

239. +1000 nt

[chknltl]

240. From the moment I first saw your poll...

...I was reminded of the opening days of Congresswoman Pelosis' run as Speaker of the House. There was what appeared to be a heated debate over impeachment hearings for the Bush Family Evil Empire or BFEE as we called them. Then Madam Speaker came out, day one I believe and took impeachment off the table. I was crushed but there appeared to be something of a rally here at DU to push for impeachment anyway. IMHO back then, a poll such as yours, carefully worded as yours is here, would have been just as starkly revealing.

We accept that our media is bought out-used to direct us along paths that ultimately are against our best interests. Isn't DU part of our nation's media? Doesn't it make sense that those with millions to spend as investment into paths that could net them billions, that they would spend a tiny fraction of it here at DU in order to sway our opinion? I know if I were them I would do just that. As I see it THAT'S THE ELEPHANT in our room.

[Logical]

242. Great point, something to think about. nt

[chknltl]

246. Kickety kickety

[wildbilln864]

247. Hands down! Bernie! n/t

[L0oniX]

249. KICK ...best poll evah.

[darkangel218]

250. I think its pretty clear

Woot!

[chknltl]

251. Oh this needs another kick

Maybe I have a mean streak in me or somethin'....I just love these results!

[1000words]

252. Bookmark it.

It's a gift that will keep giving.

[chknltl]

253. Oh I have!

Color me .....what's the word I am looking for here....oh yeah, color me a conspiracy theorist but to me this proves that my fellow Americans at DU do indeed have a moral compass. We DUers rally here for more than just our news, we rally here because we share something: a deep understanding about right and wrong with how democracy in America is supposed to work. This poll actually gives me hope, inspiration even, that the big DU is prepared to lead the citizenry in a much needed discussion on what actual democracy here in America should be about.

Now that I understand this poll's implications I would love to see another Poll: Were you in favor of or not in favor of impeachment hearings when Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of The House. I say this because just like today, I believe my fellow DUers understood the needs of our democracy just as deeply then as they do now. I'll not risk my membership by pointing fingers but just prior to our taking the House and directly after when Madam Speaker took impeachment off the table, that period of time when those paying attention in this country were screaming for impeachment, a concerted effort was felt here in DU to make us feel stupid for supporting it. I WAS CRUSHED thinking that my fellow DUers, many that I had come to admire had turned against what I clearly knew was the right thing for our nation.

To this day I have asked myself: Did corporatist money find it's way here? I am now of the opinion that the answer to that question will reveal itself over the coming weeks in this way: If a concerted effort is seen in DU that creates the illusion here that Senator Sanders can not win, that he can not be the nominee. The bottom line, THIS TIME I know who our allies are. We are here because we want to be here....I will not second guess anyone on that list who voted for Bernie, wondering if they have been paid to promote a corporatist's agenda. I know that their opinions come from the same place as mine: their heart.
THAT IS WHAT THIS POLL MEANS TO ME.

[1000words]

254. This site is most definitely "managed."

These poll numbers suggest the effort isn't quite achieving the desired result.

[Quixote1818]

255. kick nt

[ucrdem]

256. Last year it was Eddie, before that Jules

Can't wait to see who or what is waiting in the wings. We're easily distracted.

[arcane1]

257. Did someone say Eddie?

[ucrdem]

258. omg

wish I hadn't seen that . . .

[arcane1]

259. Eddie the 'Ed, 2016!

[U4ikLefty]

375. Okay, that's awesome...I'm stealing it. nt

[arcane1]

377. Steal away! I found it in an online search anyway

[U4ikLefty]

378. Very cool. I would love to make a t-shirt of this for the next Maiden show.

As a politically aware metalhead, it's right up my alley.

God, I'm such a nerd sometimes.

[arcane1]

380. Iron Maiden has already solved world peace anyway.

I love those movies of theirs that document their global tours. There are hardcore Maiden fans everywhere, and no matter what one looks like or acts like or thinks like, all are part of that one HUGE family

[U4ikLefty]

382. Having attended a few (7 since 1983) Maiden shows, I agree.

Loved "Iron Maiden: Flight 666" it was a great movie I love what Sam Dunn has done for metal. His "Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage" bio is one of my favs of all time & the "Metal Evolution" series is freakin' great.

Bruce is healthy, so hopefully they will tour soon again. Last saw them play an awesome show called "The Battle of San Bernardino" (held where they had the US Festival) with Megadeth, Anthrax, Testament, Sabaton, Overkill, and Warbringer. Had pit tickets, so I could mosh (and I did) to Overkill, Anthrax, and Testament. Then I got to see Megadeth and Maiden up close...what great day!!!

[arcane1]

383. Agreed 100% about Sam Dunn! I loved the hell out of his movie, and was pleased to hear he had a show

I've only caught a few episodes since I don't have cable, but I've watched those few over and over again

[chknltl]

261. .

snicker

[delrem]

262. kick

[chknltl]

263. My goal is to see which side reaches 100 or 1000 first.

Yeah, I know, lofty goal, likely not gonna happen, but kicked anyway.

[chknltl]

264. .

nuff said

[ileus]

265. After finding out Bernies pro 2A stance, I'd have to go Bernie all the way.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

266. if i were magical i would pick warren.

[L0oniX]

269. Kick

[Rex]

270. LOL. 9 to 1. That 1 being a very loud group here on DU.

I see why they shout all the time.

[Thespian2]

271. Damn!

Almost missed this poll...

GO, BERNIE

[donnasgirl]

273. I voted for bernie and always will

[hay rick]

274. DU has spoken...my interpretation of the oracle.

There is a Democratic base (those who always vote in primaries) and a smaller activist base- the people that volunteer early for campaigns and run local Democratic Parties. I think both groups are over-represented in DU and the smaller activist group particularly favors Sanders. Hillary's problem is that her appeal to Wall Street alienates the activist portion of the base. They will vote for her in the general election if she wins the primary, but they will put their volunteer efforts into local or state races.

I think she expects that outcome and is prepared to live with the consequences.

[Omaha Steve]

276. K&R!

[SamKnause]

277. K&R for Bernie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rex]

278. K&R!!!

[workinclasszero]

280. Poll: Hillary Clinton Dominates in Iowa, Bernie Sanders Second

Poll: Hillary Clinton Dominates in Iowa, Bernie Sanders Second
May 7, 2015 6:00 AM CDT

Support for the former secretary of state remains high in the state, despite a wave of negative news coverage over alleged influence-peddling at her family foundation.

John McCormick

For now, Hillary Clinton has nothing to worry about as she prepares for the Iowa caucuses. Despite a wave of influence-peddling allegations involving her family's foundation, her prospects for winning the first-in-the-nation presidential contest remain undamaged.

The former secretary of state is backed by 60 percent of likely Democratic caucus participants, a Quinnipiac University poll released Thursday shows. Her nearest rival, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, is supported by 15 percent of those surveyed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-07/poll-hillary-clinton-dominates-in-iowa-bernie-sanders-second

[totodeinhere]

286. That's actually good news for Bernie that after only a few days he has already passed

the 10% threshold. Usually to be considered a first tier candidate you need to be polling in double digits and Bernie has already passed that milestone. I look for him to go up from here. I also think that a strong second place showing in Iowa is all he needs to remain viable. The real showdown will be in New Hampshire.

[merrily]

308. A few days vs 15-20 years, little name recognition vs. maximum possible name recognition, little

money vs. hundreds of millions.

Yep, that's a very shabby showing, all right. We may as well give up now and save ourselves the disappointment later

[L0oniX]

292. 10 to 1 ...kick

[darkangel218]

294. Woot!

[lovemydog]

299. I voted for Bernie Sanders

and would vote for him over any republican. I would also vote for Hillary Clinton over any republican. I would vote for Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton if the primaries were held tomorrow. But they won't be held tomorrow. They are a long way away. In the meantime I am going to say what I always say: we need 535 people in Congress like Bernie Sanders, like Hillary Clinton, like Barbara Lee, like Barack Obama, like Batman, like Superman, like The Hulk, like Black Widow and as a team, like the Avengers!

[SamKnause]

301. K&R for Bernie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[woo me with science]

310. kick

[merrily]

312. Every time I come across this poll, the numbers get higher, but the percentages stay the same.

Not sure if that says anything?

[LeftishBrit]

314. Bernie, but obviously I can't pick the president at all, let alone by magic

I just hope it's any Democrat.

Just being selfish for a moment: my own country is in a fucking mess right now, and all we'd need is a Republican for the Tories to collaborate with. Like Maggie 'n Ronnie, or Tony 'n W. Except that Tony wasn't a Tory. Except that Tony WAS a Tory.

[True Blue Door]

322. It's not even a real question.

Even though Sanders would be vulnerable to initial missteps due to how different his politics are, we would at least know his mistakes were being learned from, and were actually going somewhere.

Neither can be said of Hillary Clinton. I've seen no evidence she has learned from or even acknowledges the many, many, many mistakes she has made, at enormous cost to her own career and Party. Every time something she does bites her in the ass, she blames someone else and doubles down on her own infallibility. Every time.

[Logical]

323. +1000 nt

[merrily]

324. kick

[Purveyor]

330. These numbers are impressive, indeed! Thanks for posting. eom

[Rex]

333. Kickity Kick kick!

For those here that have a hard time facing reality...

[Cali_Democrat]

334. Well that settles it

Bernie needs to start picking out a cabinet.

I wonder who he's going to nominate as Treasury Secretary.

[woo me with science]

336. K&R

[Liberal_in_LA]

337. give some love to Hillary

[bobjacksonk2832]

338. Bernie Sanders, hands down.

Clinton is way too corporatist for my taste. Bernie is a true progressive who knows what's best for America.

[woo me with science]

340. Kick

[NYC_SKP]

342. kickity!

[enigmatic]

344. Bernie.

The one person in my lifetime I can truly say w/o irony that I would be proud to vote for President.

[Autumn]

345. Are we sure that the far Left is

really the fringe as we are told so often here on DU?

[Logical]

346. It amazes me that 91% picked Bernie. When I started this poll I guessed maybe 60-40 for Bernie! nt

[Agschmid]

356. Are you sure you are really the far left?

[Autumn]

357. So I've been told.

[Agschmid]

358. And you listened?

[woo me with science]

347. kick

[woo me with science]

348. Astroturfing campaigns use on average ten online personas per employee.

This poll shows roughly ten percent support for Hillary Goldman-Sachs.

One percent is a fascinating number.

[MohRokTah]

349. I bet in 2008, you would have had similar results with Kucinich winning. eom

[B Calm]

350. Bingo!

[morningfog]

351. It's not 2008. Kucinich isn't running.

Sanders is not Kucinich.

[MohRokTah]

352. Sanders is the Kucinich of 2016.

I stand by that.

[morningfog]

353. Hillary is the Hillary of 2008.

If you can't see the difference in Kucinich and Sanders, that is your failing.

[MohRokTah]

354. .

[Nye Bevan]

355. So many DUers wanting to go back to having an old white dude as president. (nt)

[myrna minx]

381. Or, most likely, *finally* having their economic worldview represented.

One of my most recent favorite things that happened is: Thomas Piketty.

His moderate perspective of economics already has had earth moving repercussions in the USA and worldwide- and it's thrilling!

The 40 years of stranglehold of the failed ultraconservative Strauss and Friedman economic philosophy as *the* only common wisdom is no longer. Hahaha. Even mainstream French socialist philosophy is now in the bloodstream. This should strike fear in all Tory, Republican and free trader "Democrat" hucksters alike.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

359. As my friends in the Wood says "it is what it is."

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

[Logical]

361. I am confident she can lose the lead again like in 2008!! nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

363. She blew a twenty point lead last time. She has a fifty point lead this time:

She blew a twenty point lead last time. She has a fifty point lead this time:


http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary


I hope you aren't suggesting Bernie Sanders is a proxy for Barack Obama. He has much in common with Barack Obama as I do with Brad Pitt...

[Logical]

364. She lost a 30 point lead last time. Nice try. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

366. Still off by twenty points.Nice try.

I have been watching the NBA, MLB, and NFL since Wilt was dunking, Willie was swinging, and Gail was running. I saw teams choke up twenty point leads, even a thirty two point lead when the Oilers choked up a 32 point lead in a playoff game twenty two years ago but i never saw a team cough up a fifty point lead... i also have been following national politics just as long and I never saw a presidential candidate cough up a fifty point lead...

Since I am on a Brad Pitt roll it's no more logical to assume that I can get Angela Jolie to have sex with me than some guy who became a Democrat last month can beat Hillary Rodham Clinton in the 2016 Democratic primary.


Enjoy Hillary as 45

[L0oniX]

360. Kick

[ucrdem]

362. Looks like Bernie is starting to slip.

Gee who could have predicted that.

[chknltl]

370. It's been awhile since I kicked this

I am still optimistic that Bernie can reach a thousand DUers first.

[Cheese Sandwich]

371. wow. It's a landslide.

[Recursion]

372. I'll have to see how Sanders handles a national campaign before I can answer

I like him on a lot of issues, but I don't know how good of an administrator he is yet.

[Exilednight]

373. This isn't even close. It's nearly a 10 to 1 ratio in favor of Bernie.

[romanic]

374. I've really grown to like Bernie

but I'm still wary on him being on the national stage. Clinton may be more center but she's well-established and as great national experience.

Honestly a Sanders/Clinton, Clinton/Sanders ticket would be the best of both worlds but that's just me.

[cheapdate]

379. I'd pick Bernie over Hillary. By a long way.

In a perfect world, I'd pick radical environmentalist Derrick Jensen. Other dream picks include astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (I know he's Canadian, but this is a dream), and left-wing, pragmatist philosopher Richard Rorty.

My ethics and Hillary Clinton's are oceans apart in many ways. But I can disagree with her without tearing her down. She'll probably be the next president.

[L0oniX]

384. bump

[Logical]

386. Kick for fun! Nt

[brooklynite]

390. ...but the Poll data does

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6735975

Bernie's support down to 70%!!!!! He's cratering!!!!! Time to panic!!!!!

(or, time to acknowledge that internet poll are meaningless feel-good exercises in slacktivism).

[chknltl]

388. Kicked. nt

[brooklynite]

393. You know that a subsequent DU poll had Bernie Sanders down to about 70%?

And DU polls are the bellwether of how Democrats vote, right?

[wildbilln864]

394. Hands down! Bernie! n/t

[grahamhgreen]

395. Bernie is edging ahead with 90%, maybe he'll win this DU poll, lol!

[chknltl]

400. kicked again.

There is a reason for my madness.

[Bluzmann57]

402. Bernie

That is all.

[2banon]

404. Interesting results at this stage. All things considered wrt to this site.

makes me feel cautiously optimistic this might translate to the primaries. good.

[cantbeserious]

405. I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[B Calm]

406. I'll take either one of them.

[bobthedrummer]

409. Bernie Sanders n/t

[hifiguy]

411. The results speak for themselves. nt

[PowerToThePeople]

418. This never gets old

I love it!!!!

[MelissaB]

420. Holy sh*t!

How did I miss this?

[L0oniX]

421. Rebooting.

[SoapBox]

422. WOW...I never saw this!

KICKING!

[rhett o rick]

423. Yeah! I am not surprised. nm

[Kalidurga]

424. If anyone has links to the rest of the album....

[MisterP]

425. "do I want someone who identifies and then addresses problems, or do I want my genitals and knees

viciously bashed flat with a fire extinguisher? hmmmm"

[tularetom]

427. Regardless of the fact that I believe Clinton is not electable

I still selected Sen Sanders.

[Katashi_itto]

428. K&R

[daredtowork]

430. I CHALLENGE EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO VOTES IN THIS POLL

To go out and canvas someone who they don't think gets their politics from the Internet, and persuade them of the importance of voting in the upcoming election. (Doesn't matter which candidate).

1) If Bernie wins the Primary, he will need all the help he can get. He will be up against Big Money.
2) If Hillary wins the Primary, she won't have the hearts and minds of voters: despite all her money, Democratic apathy may give Republicans an edge.
3) If neither of them win the primary, the Democratic candidate will probably have next to zero national name recognition and need all the help he or she can get.

[demmiblue]

434. Between the two, definitely Senator Sanders. n/t

[aikoaiko]

435. Wow.

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

436. 762 for Bernie! I never thought there were that many people here!

It is such a good sign. A beam of light into the darkness.

I am happy for tonight.

[brooklynite]

437. As DU goes, so goes the Democratic Party...

Hail President Kucinich!

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

438. Kucinich lost along with Hillary. What do you mean again?

[brooklynite]

439. As I recall, he was the preferred "real Democrat" in these parts.

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

440. I'm sure there were a lot of people that preferred Hillary, the real Democrat?

both lost.

I don't understand your point so I will mozie on off to an elsewhere.

[chknltl]

441. .

Nuff Said

[chknltl]

443. ..

[Orsino]

445. Lest we forget, DU is a tiny, tiny subset of the Democratic base.

Just get out there and find more Dems so we can nominate the best.

[madokie]

446. Thats a no brainer

I have zero in common with Hillary and pretty much everything with Bernie. Bernie is on my side, Hillary not so much

[bettyellen]

447. Maybe Bernie with a Dem house and senate. Hillary with what we have.

[chknltl]

448. .

[chknltl]

449. Kicked

I think that the reason for my kick is about to become apparant

[chknltl]

450. .

[Agnosticsherbet]

451. I will make up my mind on June 7, 2016, when California holds its primary.

Until then, I will continue gather information on all our candidates so that I can make an informed decision.

[Ed Suspicious]

452. K&R.