I don't give a flying patootie that Bernie can't win. This primary is about far more than that.

[cali]

(Reposted from Politics. Posted this yesterday, but seeing all the ridiculous posts about Bernie, I'm posting it again, here.)

It's about what this party stands for and will fight for. It's about highlighting the ever increasing corporate dominance of our government by someone who actually has a record fighting against it. To be corny it's about defining the soul of our party at this time in our nation's history. It's about cutting through the bullshit and hypocrisy.

Yes, HRC will almost certainly win the nomination. The money that she is now so vocal in opposing, ensures that. Bernie has some notable strikes against him: He's a "socialist". He's 73. He's Jewish, etc. But by running, he'll force a real and much needed debate.

It's ironic that the person to do this is an Independent.

Oh, and this is GOOD for the Democratic Party.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. I care. And I want him to pull an Obama 08.

You can bet that Hillary learned from 08. She'll do much more of what Obama did in 08; she won't ignore the electoral count this time around and act like she's in the general during the primary. He's going to need to take her head on and work the caucuses hard.

[cali]

3. I want the issues that Bernie speaks about and advocates for to get a national

airing. I want Bernie to campaign as he always has- with passion and honor.

[Sherman A1]

4. Agreed

I am very happy that he is in the race and I believe that win, lose or draw he adds to the debate.

[davidpdx]

9. I do as well, but there is zero chance it is going to happen

I'm pretty convinced that was a once in a lifetime event. I have sat and wished for a primary like that this time around. It isn't going to happen.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. Desperate people grasp at longshots.

People were desperate for change in 08. And things have only gotten worse for most people since then, despite all of the claims of 'recovery'. More people are in poverty, more people have given up on finding work and dropped out of the labour force, more people are working for less money than they did before, if they've even got jobs. So yeah, most people are still desperate for change, because the last guy didn't deliver enough.

[davidpdx]

15. The problem is the hole he was put in and the obstructionist Congress

To get things through we need to gain control of both Congress and the White House. He can't do it all through EO's. I also think people's patients wore out too quickly to push for change once he was elected. After the 2010 election, it seemed apparent that things had not been sustained enough in terms of organization. People flat lost interest (I'm not talking about those of us that are ultra-political, I'm talking about people that need to be pushed to get involved).

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

16. He wasted his first couple of years in office.

It was reported on from the start that Republican leaders met and decided to deny him everything, and in spite of this, he spent years wasting time on 'bipartisanship'. He should have had Reid 'go nuclear' immediately, and whipped out all sorts of needed legislation on a 51 vote majority. Our situation was desperate, and still is.

[davidpdx]

17. The complete nuclear you are talking about

would eventually backfire on us if the Republicans ever got back the White House and the Senate at the same time. I supported filibuster reform as well especially what was proposed by Senator Merkley. That wasn't Obama's fault it was Reid's fault.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

19. You don't think Republicans will do it anyway?

I think that if they get the WH, their first order of business will be to 'go complete nuclear'. It won't matter a hill of beans that Democrats wasted 8 years without doing it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. Is it ironic or is it just fitting because the Democratic Party really needs that injection of

energy from the independent left. It makes sense that a high profile independent, progressive would enter into the Democratic Party to help save it from itself. For progressives it hurts to see the Dem. Party taken over by big banks and corporations. By "hurt" I don't mean our feelings are hurt, I mean it's a real material defeat that costs us on policy and power. The Democratic Party is a battleground in the class struggle. So Bernie has decided that's a battle he's going to fight. And like you said he might not win, but on the other hand there's more than one way to win. You also win by building a movement, or by having influence.

[CanadaexPat]

5. I don't support candidates because I think they can win.

It's the reverse: Candidates win because I support them.

[Martin Eden]

6. GOTV

Bernie can win the general election if millions of eligible voters who seldom bother get their ass to the polls because they have found in Bernie Sanders something to vote FOR.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

12. And GOTV NOW. And every day until the elections.

Winning GOTV is not waiting til the last week or two and phone banking. It's talking to people about Bernie every single day, everywhere you go. Taking some of his many good quotes and working them into conversations so that people who've never heard of him do, and those that have become more favourable to him.

[pampango]

7. Agreed. Perhaps Bernie's focus on liberal issues may propel him to the nomination but, if not

at least a discussion of issues will good for the party and move it to the left.

[davidpdx]

8. I totally agree with you Cali

I hope Bernie gets in there and campaigns hard on the issues (as I hope O'Malley will as well). It's not going to be much of a primary though.

I will have a very difficult time supporting Clinton if she is the nominee (which I agree she most likely will be) and will not campaign or donate money for her like I did for Obama in 08' or 12'. Instead I will focus on helping in down ticket races in states other than Oregon (because my state is pretty safe).

[cali]

10. I think his issues may well take off, David.

That will make it an interesting primary.

[davidpdx]

14. Hope you are right

[underahedgerow]

13. Bernie seems like a really good guy, but it's not possible at all for him to win. Any votes for him

takes critical votes away from the only front-runner in the race, Mrs. Clinton. So, if you vote for Bernie, then Jeb Bush will win.

That's just how it works. Jeb and Mrs. Clinton will be neck and neck right up to the finish line, and any spoiler 3rd choice picks could easily tip it to Jeb.

Do we really want that to happen? Again?

[MelungeonWoman]

18. Jeb is running in the primary too?

See, I see Jeb taking critical blue dog third way support from Clinton, thereby handing the primary to Bernie.

Then on to Cruz!!!

[frylock]

21. ffs Bernie has stated, and it's been repeated here, ad nauseum..

HE IS RUNNING AS A DEMOCRAT.

[backscatter712]

24. Um, no. That is completely incorrect.

Bernie is running as a Democrat, which means he'll be competing against Hillary in the primaries, and the winner of those primaries gets to compete against the Republican assclown in the general.

Bernie himself said he would not act as a "spoiler" to give the Republicans the win.

I'll support whichever Democrat wins the nomination in the general, and I hope that Democrat is Bernie.

[arcane1]

28. Ah, the Jeb Bush Threat. That's a new one. Clever!

[Jester Messiah]

31. Unadulterated claptrap.

Any D will beat any R in the general because the amount of insanity a person has to exude to win the R primary will render them unpalatable to most swing voters. Therefore, we should feel comfortable in voting for whomever we like in the primary.

[MisterP]

20. they want both "Bernie can't win" and "Bernie Boosters were so numerous they lost '16!"

[BrotherIvan]

22. Bernie can win

The idea that he can't is used to push third way propaganda. Obama ran as a liberal and won twice. Don't buy into it.

[PowerToThePeople]

25. Truth.

eom

[tritsofme]

23. This seems like a rational approach to the Sanders candidacy.

I don't have a problem with Sanders being a candidate, or that he has a small band of passionate supporters for however long he stays in the race.

But the people here that are convinced Sanders is a serious contender for the nomination are just living in another world.

[onecaliberal]

26. Most ppl don't know about Bernie, when they

Find out what he's for his popularity will soar. I do not concede that Bernie can't win.

[arcane1]

27. If nothing else, he's providing a lens with which to evaluate the next 4 years.

[DJ13]

29. I agree cali

From earlier today........


Many party leaders (and just plain Hillary fans) are deathly afraid that Sanders message will begin to siphon off voters from her.

If that happens, Hillary would likely have to adopt a truly fiscally liberal set of campaign positions, and those party leaders and Hillary fans dont care about those issues.

In fact it would be the worst thing possible as far as they're concerned as it might impact Hillary's appeal to the Wall St. money men she has courted since Bill left the WH, crippling her GE finances.

Of course she would likely tell them behind closed doors that she hasnt changed her beliefs, its all a bunch of empty campaign promises (remember the word came out to Canada in the 08 primaries that Obama really had no intentions of renegotiating NAFTA?), but that leads to more distrust by average voters after already being burned by a slick Obama campaign in 08.

She might feel she would actually (GASP!) have to follow through on many of those fiscally liberal positions.

This is really what Bernie is trying to accomplish, forcing her so far left she might end up as a real liberal after all.

And the party leaders hate it after decades of selling the Democratic party to the same moneyed interests that control the GOP.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6599074

[Jester Messiah]

30. I'm pretty sure he can win.

Winning the primary would be the hardest task. I'm thinking any D beats any R in the general, just because the ignorance and religious craziness required to get through the R primary will guarantee the R is unpalatable to moderates.

So, if Bernie takes the D primaries, he'll be the next prez. Just one little obstacle to overcome first.