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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFive of the six officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray are now in police custody
...according to Baltimore mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.
Democracy Now! @democracynow 10m10 minutes ago
Breaking: Five Baltimore police officers now in custody in #FreddieGray case. http://ow.ly/MopBZ
Notorious TSF @MsFlowersTweets 59s59 seconds ago
6 Officers must go through central booking.... #BalitmoreUprising #BlackSpring http://wpo.st/s3LF0
NPR News @nprnews 3m3 minutes ago
Baltimore Mayor: 'No One Is Above The Law In Our City' http://n.pr/1HYAeT1
FSogol
(45,582 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)charges. That is so heavy...pretty much means a sociopath.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Conveniently out of town? He is faced with the worst of the charges.
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)depraved heart is not a medical diagnosis of sociopath. It is a description of his mens rea (mental state) on that day in that particular action.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)It is just one charge short of premeditated murder.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, as did I.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Specifically, mens rea refers to the mindstate required for intentionally commiting an offense. In order to claim intentional homicide, the prosecutor would have to establish mens rea.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Intent to murder can be really hard to prove.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)The "depraved mind" route to 2nd Degree murder looks pretty clear.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6602812
B2G
(9,766 posts)It could very well be they were, but your link doesn't say.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Last edited Fri May 1, 2015, 09:45 PM - Edit history (1)
My point is that the "rough ride" is a method that was locally known to produce injury and death in those subjected to it, it had done so before, there had been huge cash payouts, the cops should have known about the possible consequences. I think it would be pretty hard to convince a jury that they did not knowingly engage in reckless behavior intended to inflict injury on the victim. Had they actually set out with the intention of killing him, it would have been 1º murder.
Remember that the arrest was improper, and was itself a criminal act. The situation is analogous to someone who maliciously beats another person with intent to cause severe injury, but who ends up killing his victim. Such a case would fall under the "depraved heart" provision of the murder statutes.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)is injured and possibly dying...not giving medical care...willing to break the law...and you think this is the first time under the pressure of the moment? I didn't use the term "mens rea" ... I used the term Sociopath. And no, not as a professional diagnosis. but as a sociological observation and knowledge of these events. Good god, the justification is stunning.
Most criminals "act as if" they are sociopathic. That's why we put them away...they don't play nice with polite society.
so·ci·o·path
[soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-]
NOUN [PSYCHIATRY.]
1.
a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
sociopath
A person with antisocial personality disorder. Probably the most widely recognized personality disorder. A sociopath is often well liked because of their charm and high charisma, but they do not usually care about other people. They think mainly of themselves and often blame others for the things that they do. They have a complete disregard for rules and lie constantly. They seldom feel guilt or learn from punishments. Though some sociopaths have become murders, most reveal their sociopathy through less deadly and sensational means.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)that was all I was talking about. Sorry about the misplaced remark.
And it's just as well you didn't use the term "sociopath" as a "professional diagnosis" because it doesn't exist as a professional diagnosis. It's neither in the DSMIV-TR or 5 nor ICD9 or 10. And, while it may be conceptually somewhat similar to ASPD, it is not correct to confuse the two as your offered definition does. ASPD is a proper diagnostic category, while "sociopath" is not, and has no standardized definition.
Neither is the term "psychopath" in any currently recognized diagnostic lexicon, although it has been (variously) operationalized by Hare's PCL-R, the PPI-R, and the lesser-known Levenson Psychopathy scale. There is, by the way, an ongoing and rather hot scientific debate on the factor structure of psychopathy (conceived as a trait complex rather than as a disorder). The Hare, for example, seems to break down into 2 major components, each of which has 2 sub-factors, while Lilienfeld's PPI seems to have a 3-factor structure.
All of that is by way of suggesting that, after a couple of decades as a criminal forensic psychologist, having conducted psychological evaluations of something more than 2500 criminals and criminal defendants, I may not be entirely in need of a refresher on a topic I have testified about as an expert in several hundred cases. In fact, I kinda resent it.
And incidentally, I did not mean to suggest that there was no mens rea on the part of the cops in that case. As I have argued at some length elsewhere (see 32 above), I think the cops are fully culpable, knew what they were doing, and at least the driver, surely at least some of the others, and maybe all of them completely meet the "depraved heart" test. Only the fact that they used a method that does not guarantee a kill saves them from 1º murder charges.
Verstanden?
Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)mens rea refers to the mental state necessary to establish the commission of a particular crime. At common law, the mens rea for the crime charged is depraved heart. Under the Model Penal Code the mens rea for the equivalent crime is recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life.
The Maryland charging documents apparently use the term depraved heart murder even though that term does not appear in the statutes - but it appears to refer to the equivalent of the model penal code noted above. So - fast and loose only to the extent that I referred to the common law mens rea since that what the crime charged, rather then looking up the statute to retrieve the equivalent staututory mens rea.
My point is that depraved heart (or recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life) is the mindset of the person as he was committing a particular crime - not a label for his pervasive mental state.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,126 posts)The malevolent states of mind that qualify are: (1) the intent to kill, (2) the intent to do grievous bodily harm, (3) the intent to do an act under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life (depraved heart), or (4) the intent to commit a dangerous felony. Id. The General Assembly has determined that certain murders qualify as murder in the first degree, such as murders committed in the perpetration of enumerated felonies or any kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing. See Maryland Code, Article 27 §§ 407410 (1957, 1996 Repl.Vol.) (setting forth the various circumstances in which a murder will be classified as murder in the first degree). Second-degree murder includes all other types of murder. See Code, Art. 27 § 411 (All other kinds of murder shall be deemed murder in the second degree.).
Harrison v. State, 382 Md. 477 (2004)
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)But I'm so relieved. I thought they were going to walk.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)They still might after the trial.
Have any cops actually went to prison for crimes like these yet?
Having said that, thank God for State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby!
malthaussen
(17,235 posts)Just bringing it to the point of charging them is a minor miracle. Give the woman time.
-- Mal
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I am overjoyed that these cops/killers are being charged.
MH1
(17,635 posts)Getting convictions will be the next.
I suspect some of the worst charges might be pled down.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and I think it will - the defense will do its damndest to pack the jury with bigots. And you will hear so much horseshit about the stress on kkkops and that they can't be blamed for their actions that it could fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool.
The prosecution will really have to be on their toes to get a clean jury.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)with indigent defendants who can't afford to put up a vigorous defense, so getting convictions is pretty easy, especially with the police trained to over-charge to give the prosecutors plenty of bargaining power for plea bargains when they know they couldn't convict.
But in this case, the police union & maybe the city will be pouring money into the defense. This will get very interesting.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)But the attitude of Ms. Mosby in this video signals to me that this is not another Ferguson. Night and day.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)involved, after it looked like no charges would be filed, locally. If I'm remembering correctly.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)smart phones are going to start unraveling things (I hope)
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Vinca
(50,326 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)it just might change some things.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Bringing charges is only the first step. All it takes is a couple racists on a jury to blow it all up.
Plus juries tend to like cops. When a cop goes on a witness stand and testifies, juries pay a lot of attention to that. We are raised as children to respect authority. We are raised to trust and respect the police. Unfortunately, Freedie Gray isn't here to give his side of the story.
If the jury acquits, we are back to square one...
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)underpants
(183,007 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Are they bruised? Any broken teeth? Fat lips? Black eyes?
Is #6 in the wind?
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Justice.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)This action is the only possible way to stop these unwarranted attacks on defenseless citizens.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)They're only hurting their own cause! When you choose violence, the system wins!
Or, so I've hear from just about every corporate media outlet and from many DU'ers. Sorry little children, sometimes, violence is the ONLY thing that works. Please look me in the eye and tell me this would have happened if Baltimore hadn't erupted. Please do. I dare you...
sybylla
(8,533 posts)And it calls into question the intelligence and motives of the AG.
While protests did a lot to shine a light on terrible police practices and may have kept Locals in power from burying the truth and more in Baltimore, the suggestion that the AG would have done any differently if the protests never took place is more than an insult.
To claim that riots were the sole implement by which the charges were made is lunacy at its highest. But that never stopped crazy people from screaming at the moon before.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Last edited Fri May 1, 2015, 09:10 PM - Edit history (1)
What I find offensive is that despite police getting away with murder time and again people like you still think you hold the key to resistance and that your way is the only way. Every time there has been a riot in response to police criminality, there has been positive response to it in that the government took action against the police. Los Angeles 1992, the guy executed on BART by Oakland police, the 60's when segregation finally came down, and now this. Every time people have "behaved" and gone the lawful route the pigs got away with it. Every time they rose up and fucked some shit up the cops got charged.
If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend that's a coincidence then go ahead. I'll stick to reality.
Solly Mack
(90,800 posts)captainarizona
(363 posts)Keep the demonstrations going to keep up the pressure. Every trigger happy cop should start working thinking what happens to me if I shoot a 12 year old black child playing in a park. Answer the same thing that would happen to him if he shoots a 12 year old white child playing in a park. Happy may day everyone!
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)Now, pick up the last one.
imthevicar
(811 posts)if the peaceful protest were heard! so Now I see what has to be done for the PTB to Listen. they need to FEAR the people. or else it's just, "Oh look how cute, a peaceful hippy type protest THAT's nice." When you flip over cars and burn down businesses, and stone cops, all of the sudden it's, "HOLY SHIT we need to do something! the people are pissed."
WHY I ask, does it have to come to this. why don't they JUST EFIN LISTEN!
Cha
(298,021 posts)TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary
Marilyn Mosby
7:22 AM - 1 May 2015
http://theobamadiary.com/2015/05/01/marilyn-mosby/
Mahalo
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)that deserves its own OP
Cha
(298,021 posts)...thanks, Cha.
Cha
(298,021 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)We need more Mosby's.