General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere's a picture of the Kent State shootings from 45 years ago today. We should never forget this.
The students were protesting the invasion of Cambodia by the US. Republican Ohio Governor Rhodes called out the Ohio National Guard after some property destruction in the city of Kent. Four unarmed students dead.
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #4)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)Prosecuted. The initial stories blamed the event on the protestors for destruction of property. For that, there was little motivation at first to determine what happened and what went wrong. Eventually, a report concluded that no one should have been shot at; that the Guard had other options. (Duh).
Keep in mind, J. Edgar Hoover was still alive and running the FBI.
icymist
(15,888 posts)Even if the guardsmen faced danger, it was not a danger that called for lethal force. The 61 shots by 28 guardsmen certainly cannot be justified. Apparently, no order to fire was given, and there was inadequate fire control discipline on Blanket Hill. The Kent State tragedy must mark the last time that, as a matter of course, loaded rifles are issued to guardsmen confronting student demonstrators.
In September 1970, twenty-four students and one faculty member were indicted on charges connected with the May 4 demonstration at the ROTC building fire three days before. These individuals, who had been identified from photographs, became known as the "Kent 25." Five cases, all related to the burning of the ROTC building, went to trial; one non-student defendant was convicted on one charge and two other non-students pleaded guilty. One other defendant was acquitted, and charges were dismissed against the last. In December 1971, all charges against the remaining twenty were dismissed for lack of evidence.[46][47]
Legal action[edit]
Eight of the guardsmen were indicted by a grand jury. The guardsmen claimed to have fired in self-defense, a claim that was generally accepted by the criminal justice system. In 1974 U.S. District Judge Frank Battisti dismissed charges against all eight on the basis that the prosecution's case was too weak to warrant a trial.[8]
Larry Shafer, a guardsman who said he fired during the shootings and was one of those charged, told the Kent-Ravenna Record-Courier newspaper in May 2007: "I never heard any command to fire. That's all I can say on that." Shafera Ravenna city councilman and former fire chiefwent on to say, "That's not to say there may not have been, but with all the racket and noise, I don't know how anyone could have heard anything that day." Shafer also went on to say that "point" would not have been part of a proper command to open fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
At the time of these shootings, I was a 12 year old kid listening to my grandfather declare about "those God Damned hippies" deserving it while watching my mother and aunt try and comfort my grandmother who was worrying about my uncle, a student at Kent State at the time. We were living about 14 miles north of Youngstown at the time. We even knew the mother of one of the girls that got shot that day. Those were different times with a completely different war as I saw it every day at school while classmates wore the MIA/POW bracelets. Every day I would grab the newspaper after getting off of the school bus and read about who got killed or is missing. Very different than the wars of today.
NJCher
(35,663 posts)for a long, long time.
Cher
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Lochloosa
(16,064 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)his .38 and threw rocks at several students, setting off the ill-trained Guard troops to fire into the tear gas shrouded students.
You could make a case that the 'killers' were all of these players:
-President Nixon (invaded Cambodia, the reason for these latest student anti-war protests on the Kent State campus)
-Ohio Governor Rhodes (sent in troops fearing more campus unrest)
-Mayor Satrom (who asked Rhodes to send in troops)
-Terry Norman (agent provocateur)
-National Guard captain who gave order to load and fire.
-The Guard troops who fired volleys for nearly half a minute into crowds of college students...
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)liberal N proud
(60,334 posts); (
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Also remember sitting with my sister and our boyfriends watching the draft lottery. It was intense, both drew high numbers and were in college at that time.
Sadly, we are still cutting our children down 45 years later.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I believe everyone who was a teen like you and I were (he was a little older) know something was very, very wrong
very, very wrong.
Yep
. Here we are
Like Stephen Stills shouts at the end of the song (before he broke down, afterwards)
"How Long?"
jwirr
(39,215 posts)man is killed now I think about how unnecessary it is because they are not a real danger to anyone and most of the times the so called crime is something many of us do ourselves. At Kent State those kids were not a danger to the guardsmen.
I am not sure how we are ever going to end this. The 1% have the power and the guard/police are their protection. They don't even want to stop it.
Don't mind me - I am just down tonight.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)I feel like someone put their fist to my stomach, and I can't breathe. No, not like Eric, I am alive, yet I feel like I am dying inside. This needs to end.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)told her that at least he knew why he was depressed. I think most of us are like that now.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)Yup. At least he knows.
calimary
(81,238 posts)Mortally wounded by gunfire from the National Guard - that was called upon to fire upon their fellow citizens. I remember this image. Hell, how could you ever forget it. These students were just a few years older than I was at the time. There was campus unrest all over the country because so many young men that age were being drafted off to that hellhole in Vietnam. If you were lucky, you had a high number in the draft lottery and/or you had a student deferment. But ironically, the college campus that purported to be a refuge from the war no longer protected you from the flying bullets. I don't think there was anyone my age, looking toward college or university, who wasn't shaken by this and thinking the same thought - "Fuck. Could that happen to me?"
Horrid moment. HORRID.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)was such a threat.
KG
(28,751 posts)brewens
(13,582 posts)hippie war protestor! It, itself, safe in the national guard and not going to Vietnam. That one fired first and others did the same. Hating protestors that much but still hiding out in their state guard unit is what gets me.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Not all Americans, just the country and it's leaders.
They read that a fairly good share of the populace said something along the lines of "They shouldn't of protested" to "They deserved it for bringing shame on the soldiers"
To this day, I feel partly ashamed of myself for being here.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)being from Ohio it was discussed a lot every year, and this song plays in my head every time I see it.
marym625
(17,997 posts)It wasn't discovered until 2006 by Alan Canfora, one of the victims who was shot in the wrist. Among evidence sitting with the FBI was a recording of the events. A student, Terry Strubbe, hung the mic of his tape recorder out the window. In it you can hear the order to shot. Something that had been denied by the National Guard.
The tape has been verified as authentic. In the search for justice it has been used to try and reopen the case. But that request has been refused
Order to Fire
http://www.may4.org/ordertofirestrubbetapeevidence.html
ORDER TO FIRE OHIO NATIONAL GUARDSMEN
*includes handwritten statements, May 4, 1970, as written by shooters*
--Sergeant James Pierce, Ohio National Guard, Troop G, handwritten statement, May 4, 1970.
I thought I heard someone say, Turn around and stand your ground. At that point, everybody turned around
--Ohio National Guard SP4 Lloyd Thomas, Jr, Troop G, Federal Kent State lawsuit trial testimony, 1970.
As a Guardsman who was present at Kent State, I cannot wholly dismiss the possibilities of a deadly collusion I know others who welcomed the deadly confrontation.
--letter to the editor by anonymous GUARDSMAN, Akron Beacon Journal newspaper, August 18, 1971.
http://www.may4.org/ohionationalguardordertofire.html
The recording
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)silenced us
i think it was the modern era start of militarization of police forces
marym625
(17,997 posts)It just became accepted and widely known with the murders at Kent State
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)the violence during the civil rights movement came from the states and lawless individuals ...the guard was called out to protect children integrating into previously white schools
at kent state the guard came to "protect" the town from college protesters, they murdered their own citizens
marym625
(17,997 posts)I believe they were called out on more than a few occasions to protect tptb. Especially after MLK Jr. Was shot
Regardless, I can't believe they won't reopen this. It is just plain wrong. 100% wrong
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Luckily, they didn't send us. Some idiot probably would have issued live ammunition.
And our only training was for Vietnam combat, not for civil riot control.
marym625
(17,997 posts)Yeah, good thing. Daley would have excused it too. At least his sin learned something from that fiasco. Still have been problems but nothing like 68.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Gunning down college kids, some were just watching or moving across the grounds. I cannot believe the State got away with blatant murder.
Tear gas if you must, but live ammo?
The recent documentary on I think PBS brought all this back. May 4 should live in infamy.
One other thing about the recent documentary, They played a tape of a snotty rich gal saying she was glad these people were killed and sad more weren't shot dead. I hope she had a terrible life.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)At any cost. The guards shot at the order to shot. They knew there was live ammo.
It's a horrible event where there was no justice and truth has never been allowed in the pages of history
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)At least it was one of the days. I heard so many people in my home town voice the opinion that: "the students got what was coming to them!"
I have family there that I visit; but, I never want to go back there, even if the cost of living is cheaper.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I was being treated for gunshot wounds received in Vietnam 3 months earlier. Coming back from a faraway foreign combat zone to see people being killed and wounded by National Guard gunfire on a college campus in Ohio struck me as obscene.