Avengers Director: Rumor I Quit Twitter over Feminist Harrassment ‘Horsesh*t’

[sufrommich]

Avengers director Joss Whedon unceremoniously deleted his Twitter account Monday, leading some to believe he had been chased off by Twitterati angry over his studio’s handling of Scarlet Johansson’s Black Widow character.

On Wednesday Whedon told BuzzFeed that was “horseshit.”

Per BF:

“Believe me, I have been attacked by militant feminists since I got on Twitter. That’s something I’m used to. Every breed of feminism is attacking every other breed, and every subsection of liberalism is always busy attacking another subsection of liberalism, because god forbid they should all band together and actually fight for the cause.

“I saw a lot of people say, ‘Well, the social justice warriors destroyed one of their own!’ It’s like, Nope. That didn’t happen,” he continued. “I saw someone tweet it’s because Feminist Frequency pissed on Avengers 2, which for all I know they may have. But literally the second person to write me to ask if I was OK when I dropped out was [Feminist Frequency founder] Anita [Sarkeesian].”


http://www.mediaite.com/online/avengers-director-rumor-i-quit-twitter-over-feminist-harrassment-horsesht/

[cyberswede]

1. Aw, I guess that banned troll was wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141085477

Now, if only...

[seabeyond]

12. i do not think i get this story and what is happening. i never follow this shit.

your confused me even more, rather than clear up.

[seabeyond]

14. you know what cyberswede. very interesting.

took a while to load the second, to the sjw being tedious bullshit. so i replied without seeing that. fuck. kinda what i am living.

[Doctor_J]

35. Ironic that so many dedicated feminists fell for MRA talking points.

[cyberswede]

37. Do you mean in that thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141085477

...'cause I mostly see people pointing out how the OP was full of shit.

[Doctor_J]

45. Most, yeah, but

Whedon is another MRA pig. Good riddance.

Ug. I was hoping this would be a good movie, since my 11 year old son wants me to

Sexist shit is everywhere.

Nothing sexist about it?

[NCTraveler]

54. Then you should rethink your post.

"Ironic that so many dedicated feminists fell for MRA talking points."

The irony is lost on you.

[cyberswede]

57. well...

One of those is a troll.
One poster (who you cited twice) changed their mind after a dialog ("I agree. That is encouraging.&quot
And the poster who said "sexist shit is everywhere" continued with "But you'll be hard pressed to find it in here..."

...that's hardly "so many dedicated feminists." - nor are DU's most "infamous" feminists even in that thread.

[seabeyond]

2. all i am seeing is the men called the female character a slut. people didnt like that. now they

throw a tantrum? that they are not allowed to call women sluts? how unfair?

have i missed something.

poor little boys.

[el_bryanto]

4. Who called the female character a slut specifically?

I thought it was Jeremy Renner and Chris Evans? Did Joss Whedon do that as well? If so do you have a link? That would be pretty uncharacteristic of him.

[seabeyond]

5. all we get is his whine about the mean feminist picking on him. i for one, am curious WHY

the mean ole feminist are picking on him. so i read the article. thinking surely i would see why those mean feminists are picking on him. all i got from the article was.

The Avengers rollout has had its bumps, with Robert Downey Jr. walking out of an interview and Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner apologizing (and then reneging on that apology) for calling the Black Widow character a “slut.”

well. too bad. boys. you are not allowed to define women as sluts. your bad. if that is it, then i am gonna say there was not hordes of meanie feminists. but some asshole men.

[el_bryanto]

7. OK - but let me ask this again - Joss Whedon - the person who this article is about

Did he call anybody a slut?

Was he present when Evans and Renner called Black Widow a slut?

Or is this guilt by association? He directed a movie with some actors who said some unfortunate things in interviews?

Bryant

[seabeyond]

8. we do NOT know. in this enlightening story, all we hear is his whine about the mean feminist.

do you think feminist might have been addressing SOMETHING? i am thinking. i mean, those meanie feminists are picking on him for absolutely no reason?

wouldnt you like to know what the ISSUE is? at the very least?

dont you think the article should have let us know WHAT the issue is?

all i found was some men calling a woman a slut.

[el_bryanto]

16. A few points

1. He isn't complaining about Feminism. He is instead saying that he didn't quit Twitter because of Feminists - indeed he points to Feminist Frequency's Anita Sarkeesian as having reached out to him. I don't know if you are familiar with Ms. Sarkeesian but she was part of the whole Gamergate mess. While there is an element of "see - some feminists like me" in his reference to her, there's also the fact that Sarkeesian has been lambasted by the geek community for pointing out (accurately) that many games have sexist elements to them (and worse). And he's backed her up in the past.

2. He is 100% correct when he says "Every breed of feminism is attacking every other breed, and every subsection of liberalism is always busy attacking another subsection of liberalism, because god forbid they should all band together and actually fight for the cause."

3. You are the one who made the accusation that he was one of the boys who called the Black Widow a slut - I simply asked you to back up that accusation. If you can't - well you can move on to something else that he has actually done and suggest that this is why Joss Whedon - who has been one of the most openly feminist men working in Hollywood - deserves to be attacked for being insufficiently feminist. Frankly - if Whedon isn't feminist enough than there's little hope for anybody in Hollywood.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

19. 1. he is not pitting feminist against feminist? sure sounds that way to me.

2. calling and calidating nad dismissing calling women slut and whore sure in hell not banding together. to tit for tat?

3. no. i did not make that accusation. you may have read it, but i clearly did not think he was the one to say that, and you need to re read my words. i was wanting to know what he did, to get the feminists riled, not seeing it in the story.

[el_bryanto]

21. OK - reconcile 2 and 3

So Joss Whedon didn't call woman sluts - but he should be held accountable for other men who did? Is that the argument?

Bryant

[seabeyond]

22. only learning the story as we go. if he has a long history of supporting feminist, one would think

he might say something about that fuckin offensive interview, you think> but at the very least, understand why women may be pissed at the interview.

this also leads me to exactly what the widow character will be. and that, ya, has to do with wheldon. but... having no information on the character, that really is not relevant.

unless we already know the character and it is relevant.

but seeing how i am just walking into this story, i do not have that information YET

[sufrommich]

25. He does have a history of supporting feminists. That's why I found

the whole "ZOMG Wheldon quits because evil feminists" story suspect:

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/27/joss_whedon_blasts_misogynistic_video_games_tweets_support_for_feminist_frequency_founder/

[seabeyond]

43. good for him. i for one, appreciate his voice. nt

[el_bryanto]

28. If you don't have the information - why are you on the attack?

Why not get the information and then go after Whedon? Your attack, if you still felt it warranted, would be sharper and more direct. It's not like people haven't written about these issues.

Here for example is an interview that he gave on Black Widow's Character. Doesn't reference that controversy directly, but does talk about how Whedon sees the Character.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

38. oh. stop. i have clearly put out my position step by step. and it matters. i have been honest

clear. i do not know if this is a dude we hold up to a point, wehre we are not even allowed to address. but if so, bullshit. i can appreciate his position supporting feminist. an ya. i have problems with what he said. that you refuse to acknowledge. and i think cause you know it.

i do not need to treat him with kid glaves. afraid to lose his support. i am sure he is a big boy and can handle it.

[el_bryanto]

39. There's a difference between treating someone with kid gloves and being accurate

in your accusations. If you feel like he warrants being attacked because he didn't publically chastise Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner than you should have made that clear at the outset. Instead you put him in the same box as those two and assumed he was in agreement.

Being accurate and backing up your accusations is not being weak. It's not being gentle. It's not being soft. And it's certainly not using kid gloves.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

44. i do not think you are ACCURATELY portraying what i have said. meh.

[el_bryanto]

52. Your initial statement

all i am seeing is the men called the female character a slut. people didnt like that. now they

throw a tantrum? that they are not allowed to call women sluts? how unfair?

have i missed something.

poor little boys.

But you are right no point continuing this.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

53. ya. so? that is what i READ in the article. that is what happened.

some men called a character a slut. then other men blamed feminists.

[el_bryanto]

56. OK

Jeremy Renner and Chris Evans called a character a slut

Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner apologized - Jeremy Renner reneged on his apology.

Some Mens Rights Activists and others (Patton Oswalt for example) claimed that Joss Whedon had been hounded into leaving Twitter.

Joss Whedon then commented that this wasn't true; he hadn't been hounded from twitter by feminists.

Is there anything I've said above that you dispute?

Bryant

[seabeyond]

58. that is all you had to say, instead of hunt things to attack me on. and that still does not address

how i read wheldons comment.

1. SOUNDS like he is pitting feminist against feminist. is he? and surely the militant was just a slip parrating the MRA. see, i can be gracious and understanding, as feminists are labeled militant.

hence my point. where am i wrong? you can tell me. i am receptive. and even if i am not wrong, and it was an ooops.... he is a feminist ally. i can wrap my head around that.

can you?

[seabeyond]

24. and. was he pitting feminist against feminist in that statement? that is everything he accuses

feminists of, and that is not supporting feminism.

[Orrex]

40. Hmm...

if Whedon isn't feminist enough than there's little hope for anybody in Hollywood.

Well, Whedon does have a well-established history of showing waifish, pretty, barefoot women stomping much bigger and stronger male characters, so there's that.

[yeoman6987]

26. Actually they were calling a cartoon character a slut.

Let's be factual at least.

[seabeyond]

29. really? lmfao. guy. thank you so much for your help

[yeoman6987]

33. Hey anytime. I just like information to be factual and true.

You really shouldn't have an issue with that.

[Snow Leopard]

74. they may not get to define

but they do get to call someone a slut in this free country

wonder why everyones fee fees got all upset over someone calling a fictional character a slut

[seabeyond]

75. as they get to call someone a slut, others get to call them misogynist assholes. why their fee fees

were hurt?

[Snow Leopard]

83. it was my impression it

was the feminists who's fee fees were hurt, but I fail to see how a comment about a fictional character translates to hatred of women. It is illustrative that you chose that term though.

[seabeyond]

84. no surprise you fail to see, ....

[KitSileya]

11. And Jeremy Renner just doubled down on his fauxpology

On David Letterman, where he claimed that because Black Widow is a fictional character, it doesn't matter that he called her a sl*t. Never mind that his salary should tell him how important we find our fiction, and never mind that he hasn't said word one about the character that actually has had sex with a lot of people (while Natasha has had sex with none, and only been seen looking for a serious relationship with one.)

I find it contemptible of him, to be honest, and am mightily disappointed.

[yeoman6987]

27. Did you see the movie? I didn't. No interest at all.

[KitSileya]

55. Yes, I saw it, and it was a mess.

Regressive in some characters, unbelievable in others. Black Widow and Dr. Banner are especially ill-treated IMO. Hawkeye's reveal is just so stereotypical and ill-suited. To me it felt like they cut half the movie - the first half, considering that none of the characters are where we left them last, physically or emotionally. And after the wonderful portrayal of BW and Steve Rogers in CA:TWS it was especially galling. I hope the Russo brothers are slated to direct BW's next outing, and not Joss Whedon.

[yeoman6987]

69. Since you enjoy them or at least the last one.

I hope so to.

[geek tragedy]

50. he's overcompensating in an effort to stay in the closet.

Which is sad, as if everyone didn't already know.

[KitSileya]

60. Speculating whether Renner is in the closet is immaterial.

It doesn't matter. He gets to be in the closet if he wants to be, and more power to him. But he doesn't get to call the only woman in the MCU Avengers a sl*t without pushback. BW is linked with 4of the 6 Avengers because 5 of them are straight guys, and they can't think of her except as a potential romance. That is pure sexism. It harms real life women because it reinforces sexism in our culture. Not to mention it is very disrespectful to Johanssen, who is the person people will be thinking of when they hear 'Black Widow is a sl*t'. It's not like actors don't get closely identified by their roles, after all. This bullshit of his about how she's fictional doesn't excuse anything, nor is this faux anyone who has sex with 4 of the 6 Avengers, considering 5 of them are cis straight men and only women could sleep with 4 of them.

[geek tragedy]

65. not defending it. merely explaining.

The entire point to the behavior is how obnoxious and misogynist it is--it's using hypermasculinity as a shield, based on the old stereotype that homosexuality and masculinity are inconsistent.

[Comrade Grumpy]

61. Really, Geek? Your comment seems a bit tawdry.

And probably not PC.

[geek tragedy]

67. he's engaging in stereotypical hypermasculine/machismo behavior

wouldn't be the first time . . .

Chris Evans realized how offensive the comments were, Renner chose to double down

note that he didn't call Tony Stark a "whore" and a "slut" despite that character's extreme promiscuity.

[seabeyond]

70. ok. gotcha. and ya. and thanks. nt

[backscatter712]

80. Jeremy Renner's turned out to be a giant douchecanoe.

Joss Whedon has always been a passionate feminist. I'll bet he doesn't cast Renner in any more of his films...

[Starry Messenger]

3. Hah! So many people needed this to be true

Pathetic what they will grasp onto.

[seabeyond]

6. i do not follow this shit. i am not sure i am getting what happened. nt

[octoberlib]

15. I googled it. Apparently Renner got called out on Twitter for calling the Black Widow character

a slut and a whore.

During an interview with Conan O’Brien on Monday to promote Avengers: Age of Ultron, Jeremy Renner said he was surprised by the online reaction to the comments he made about Black Widow. (Last month, Renner and co-star Chris Evans joked that their fictional teammate was a “slut” and a “complete whore” during a junket interview.)

Chris Evans, Jeremy Renner apologize for their derogatory Black Widow jokes
“Yeah, it was a joke. Off-colored. Whatever. I’m unapologetic about a lot of things, but I got into a lot of internet trouble. Because that’s a thing now, you can get in,” Renner told O’Brien. The actor then explained how a question about Black Widow’s romantic partners (she’s been linked to four characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe so far) led to his remark.

“Mind you, I was talking about a fictional character and fictional behavior. But, Conan, if you slept with four of the six Avengers, no matter how much fun you had, you’d be a slut,” Renner said. “I’d be a slut.”

The comments Renner made to O’Brien echo the actor’s apology following the initial uproar.

“I am sorry that this tasteless joke about a fictional character offended anyone,” Renner said in a statement. “It was not meant to be serious in any way. Just poking fun during an exhausting and tedious press tour.” Watch O’Brien and Renner discuss the incident below.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/05/jeremy-renner-black-widow-internet-trouble

[seabeyond]

17. joke, off color whatever. shut the fuck up and take it... *. those damn sjw.

know your place.

kinda like that?

thanks for the link. and.

no

[octoberlib]

18. Yep. Apparently it should be okay to use those terms if the female in question

is a fictional character. Which is bullshit.

[yeoman6987]

31. Hopefully as punishment they never make another

Avengers movie again. They are dumb movies anyway. No use for them. Waste of time and promotes sexism so shut them down. I so hope it happens.

[el_bryanto]

41. So what sort of movies should be permitted? nt

[yeoman6987]

68. I liked furious 7. Very good movie with zero sexism

[KitSileya]

73. I don't want them not to make another. I want them to do better.

I want them to start making superhero ensemble movies that actually pass the Bechdel test. Movies where 5/6th of the heroes aren't white cis men. Where they don't equate sterility with being a monster. I want Marvel to stop thinking that if a movie with a female lead doesn't do well, movies with female leads don't do well, while if a movie with a male lead tanks, that movie with a male lead tanked.

I like superhero movies. What's more, I like MCU movies. These are the people who made a 10-episode miniseries where the whole plot hinged on the hero exploiting the men's awful misogyny to get things done. Why can't they get that into their movies? Why do we get fobbed of with Whedon's revolutionary-in-the-90s female characters? It's 2015. Shouldn't we have gotten farther than this?

[Starry Messenger]

46. Nothing happened.

A bunch of MRAs confabulated that a man got chased off of twitter by ebil feminists, which of course are just "SJWs" (a right wing meme, by the way, for those of you pretending to be liberals and using that...FYI.)

MRAs desperately wanted it to be true that a generally feminist man was driven to the brink by women and our shrill demands on social media.

From the article: "Whedon said he bolted from Twitter to find some “quiet space” to write, comparing working out new ideas amidst the scrum of social media to “taking the bar exam at Coachella.”

He's fine. The MRAs need to fold tents and admit that their conspiracy theory was a bunch of bullshit.

[seabeyond]

47. thank you. ya. we have some jabs at sjw as not even warranting lip service, in this thread.

thanks.

[sufrommich]

49. This. nt

[chervilant]

9. hmm...

"Every breed of feminism is attacking every other breed, and every subsection of liberalism is always busy attacking another subsection of liberalism..."

Hyperbole, Mr. Whedon? Or, are you casting aspersions out of anger?

I don't know this guy, but what little I've read about this trite brouhaha leaves me with the impression that Mr. Whedon is rather sophomoric.

[seabeyond]

10. its sounding like he is claiming feminism. we have a sect of feminist men think calling women sluts

ect,... pornifying is their femist right. and since they are feminists too, they are alllowed. just empowering those sluts and all. you know.

so ya. exactly what is this man getting all pissy about with all us feminists.

do tell.

[chervilant]

13. I was going to add

that he sounds sexist, but I don't know enough about the man to make that claim. And, whining about a Twitter account issue seems so ridiculous when, as a species, we're facing so many ginormous crises.

I think it's sad that so many individuals fail to see sexism, or think that if it's only slightly sexist, it should be okay. I still struggle with self worth having been sexually used by men throughout my childhood. Thus every instance of sexism rubs salt in that wound I've worked so hard to heal.

[el_bryanto]

20. Well Twitter in general is pretty useless

But to be clear - he left Twitter voluntarily - and at that point many Mens Rights Activists types suggested that he had been hounded off by feminists, trying to turn his leaving Twitter as a cause celebre for how nasty feminists are. He then was asked about this and made it clear that Feminists did not drive him off Twitter.

Joss Whedon has a long history of supporting feminism.

Bryant

[chervilant]

32. His comment

about "militant feminists" belies that stance. "Militant feminists" is a dog whistle, much like "thugs."

[el_bryanto]

36. OK - that's bullshit.

He's repeating the argument that others made on his behalf that militant feminists drove him off Twitter. That's the terminology they used.

Bryant

[seabeyond]

42. i get that style of addressing the issue, if that was the intent. militant feminist is also a dog

whistle.

[chervilant]

71. oic

Thanks for clarifying...in such a supportive manner.

[chervilant]

72. Well, Bryant,

I reread what he said. In light of his quoted statement, I stand by what I said.

Also, would you try to be civil in your discourse? Most of your past posts I've read have struck me as polite and thoughtful...

BTW, if a feminist tells you that "militant feminists" is a dog whistle, you might want to reconsider using that terminology, or others might think you are sexist.

[el_bryanto]

76. I've tried to be civil - but it's kind of pointless on this board sometimes.

You don't have the whole context to the situation, and you aren't interested in getting the context. So you condemn Whedon - fair enough. I disagree. And to be clear I'm not saying that the term isn't generally a dog whistle, I'm saying that in this context he is repeating what others have said.

At any rate- that's fine - let's throw Joss Whedon out - who's left in Hollywood to uphold feminist values?

Bryant

[chervilant]

78. Civility is seldom pointless,

particularly on a democratic forum.

First, as for "getting the context," I am in the process of so doing. Second, I think "condemn" is too severe a word for my take on Whedon's quote. And, finally, I'm not saying "throw Joss Whedon out."

Bryant, we are all--male and female--socialized within the context of a patriarchal, sexist society. While I am glad that more men are becoming involved in efforts to end the arbitrary hierarchies promulgated by the patriarchy, we have a long road ahead of us. At this point in our evolution, I don't think we have much time remaining to effect change.

I want to point out that I did not make the observations I made to cause you or anyone else to feel defensive. I find that sexism, like racism, is a hot button topic, and people get uncomfortable when confronted with their own isms. As I said herein above, we are all socialized within the context of a sexist society, so we all bear the burden of the language, the attitudes, and the assumptions commensurate with sexism, even when we are actively advocating for change.

[ismnotwasm]

23. Weadon has a history of being supportive of feminism

I haven't followed this story, and I'll have to see the movie.

[el_bryanto]

30. There are some spoilers on the Black Widow story if you follow this controversy

She sees part of her past; and then has a shocking revelation - the revelation is problematic to some (and I can see where they are coming from); but i'm not sure I want to talk about that as some people (like you) might not have seen the movie.

Bryant

[ismnotwasm]

48. I haven't seen it, but I will

[LittleBlue]

34. Probably the only male in Hollywood that pays the SJWs more than lip service.

Every breed of feminism is attacking every other breed, and every subsection of liberalism is always busy attacking another subsection of liberalism, because god forbid they should all band together and actually fight for the cause.

You're too old to believe in fairy tales, Joss. Hoisted by his own petard.

[ismnotwasm]

51. Really?

The only male?

[backscatter712]

81. Just seeing the pie fights here on DU shows that Joss Whedon is right.

Or as Will Rogers put it "I am not a member of an organized political party. I am a Democrat."

[kiva]

59. The creator of Buffy is sexist?

Pretty sure he's not.

[DeadLetterOffice]

62. Yeah, I'm not understanding this hot mess at all.

I'm sure Joss isn't perfect, but anyone who's seen Buffy or Firefly should be pretty clear that his female characters are not exactly wilting flowers waiting to be rescued.

[kiva]

64. I'm wondering how many people who are criticizing him

have actually seen his work, because I'm with you, I find it hard to believe that someone who created those characters is a closet sexist.

If you aren't familiar with Buffy, check out Joss' work compared to the Twilight dreck:

[seabeyond]

66. i havent seen any of them. i do not know the man or his history

and i was more looking for information on what this was about, than anything else.

[kiva]

77. I can't speak to the particular controversy

because I haven't been following it. However I have watched two of his TV series, and both have very strong female characters. If you haven't seen Buffy, I highly recommend it; a colleague who taught a class on contemporary cultural history used clips from the series to show one of the ways feminism had become part of pop culture.

[JHB]

79. A pretty good starting place, considering the topic:

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Joss_Whedon

[backscatter712]

82. Joss Whedon has always been one of the good guys.

He's always been a passionate feminist.

[Comrade Grumpy]

63. Much ado about nothing.