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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy is the party scared of Alan Grayson?
http://thefloridasqueeze.com/2015/05/10/the-uncanny-valley-of-the-florida-senate-race/THE UNCANNY VALLEY OF THE FLORIDA SENATE RACE
When robots are too human it creeps us out. Its called the Uncanny Valley an unsettling sense of revulsion when confronted with something thats human, but not.
Jon Testers ludicrously early endorsement of Patrick Murphy for Senate is an Uncanny Valley moment for him. As head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, his announcement was an obvious doncha even think about it gesture to Alan Grayson who is famously thinking about it. If it were anyone but Tester it wouldnt be so uncanny.
In 2006 Jon Tester wanted to run for a Senate seat in Montana, but the party had their chosen conservative corporate candidate and they wanted badly to keep the progressive Tester out of the race. Chuck Schumer, as head of the DSCC at the time, played the heavy, making sure the Wall Street donors candidate had a clear path.
Fortunately for Tester, the partys favorite son turned out to be cheating on his wife and had conflicts of interest that tanked his bid. Jon Tester became a Senator from Montana (turned out being progressive wasnt that big of a problem after all), and now its his job to muscle progressives out of competing for strategic Senate seats (because, you know, being progressive is a big hurdle).
Who stole Jon Testers soul? And more to the point, why does the party seem to prefer Democrats who lose? Isnt the point to keep as many seats as possible? Wouldnt the best way to do that be to vet candidates in a primary and send a tried and true candidate to the general?
It makes no sense, but the party only wants a specific kind of Democrat: a Patrick Murphy, Charlie Crist, or Alex Sink. Ambiguously Republican Democrats. Vaguely Demopublican Republicrats. Losers, all.
Every time the party came out of a whooping of one of these sorry candidates it says, Aw shucks, we shoulda been more effective in our messaging. At some point you have to admit its not the messaging. Im starting to wonder if were really even trying to win at all, or if the point is simply to keep progressives from taking higher seats of power.
Take the Florida governors race. The party put up a corporate Democrat in Alex Sink who ran a Im not as bad as him campaign against Rick Scott, and lost. Then the party put up lifelong Republican-turned-Democrat Charlie Crist in an Im a nicer guy campaign, and lost. Both candidates lost because you cant mobilize voters based on Eh, at least Im not a Republican.
This was not a failure of messaging. This was a failure of choosing a candidates who could win. The party chose conservatives that corporate funders approved of instead of Democrats who champion our values.
Patrick Murphys bizarre early coronation as our only choice for Marco Rubios Senate seat stands out as a prime example of this pattern. As a lifelong Republican with no name recognition, one of the most conservative records in Congress, who has had to recently back track on Social Security and the full support of the party, were treading depressingly familiar ground.
Why is the party so terrified of Alan Grayson? Hes a lifelong Democrat and national progressive leader with a trusted brand, an enormously effective fundraising apparatus, and a known, muscular volunteer base. In other words, a candidate who can unite the voters as a champion of our values, and win. Are they simply resisting the idea of Grayson advancing to the Senate?
Ive heard many speculate that those stories that you saw last week about Alan Grayson were a shot across the bow indicating that if he got into the race, his own party would become his prime adversary. They may have a point. The POLITICO story cited an email provided to them from a democratic-leaning organization and a Democratic source with knowledge of the situation. This is Dem on Dem aggression.
Who was this democratic-leaning organization that shared the email with the intent to malign Grayson? Who is the Democratic source with knowledge of the situation? Would these not be players within the party who have a personal stake the outcome? One thing is for sure, they arent bystanders. By the acts they took, they are active brokers sending the message that they intend to get nasty.
Its fine if theres people within the party structure prefer candidates for the 1% and seek to get them elected. We have a right to know thats happening and discuss it. We need to be more honest about the fact that were not playing on a left vs right spectrum. Its far more accurate to say we have a 1% vs 99% spectrum. Conservadems will vote with us on weed and LGBT issues, but theyll give away the store in the form of tax havens to corporations, defense spending and executive powers what brought us the Great Recession and the Iraq War.
So, looking at the bright side, maybe its a good thing were so dreadful at getting these guys elected.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)social issues are one thing...can't have folks literally wanting economic equality. that's just crazy talk.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)After fifty plus years of being very pro active in Democratic Party elections,one gets more and more temperamental towards party Leadership. The D.C. Plutocracy and their so called Consultants have suppressed any new or Progressive ideals. Noticed we have the same so called Consultants working both sides of the street. All about the money.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)The oligarch's influence reaches deep into the Democratic Party.
whathehell
(29,102 posts)Just a thought.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)corporate status quo apple cart.
think
(11,641 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)eloydude
(376 posts)Murphy is just as disgusting as the next Republican. Turd Way Democrats needs to be cleansed out and progressives in for the 2016 elections. The Bernie's mighty roar will bring in the progressives and give voters a reason to vote their way.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Is it possible this "Tea Party" tactic defeating party rivals at the cost of party success is already being used against progressives by Democratic Party leadership? In other words, does the DCCC's clear surrender of the House, and the risks to control of the Senate that Harry Reid and the DSCC are taking all to prevent progressives from increasing their minimal power amount to "Tea Partying" progressives? It seems so to me. As Howie wrote recently about the DCCC surrender of the House:
Continued, unchallenged [Republican] control of the House became a foregone conclusion the day Nancy Pelosi reappointed a failed, incompetent, corrupt and vision-free Steve Israel to run the DCCC for another cycle. Its numerically impossible for the Democrats to win back the House under Israel guide lines of ignoring Republicans who were members of his Center Aisle Caucus and his decision to give free passes to all GOP Leaders and committee chairmen, even vulnerable ones from Obama districts like the contemptible Fred Upton (chairman, Energy and Commerce Committee) and John Kline (chairman, Education and Workforce Committee).
No, the Democrats have no shot whatsoever at winning back the House and if Steve Israel chairs the DCCC for a hundred years, Boehner and Boehner the II and III and IV will be Speaker for a hundred years. Thank you, Nancy Pelosi. For The DCCC it's become an attempt to re-shape the Democratic House caucus into a more New Dem and Blue Dog tool-- less progressive and more under the thumb of the corporatist Republican wing of the Democratic Party. Most of Steve Israel's recruits are conservatives, maybe not as bad as his prized Sarah Palin of Ohio, but far more conservative than the average Democratic members currently-- despite the walloping House conservadems were given by the Democratic base in 2010's Great Blue Dog Apocalypse. ...
My question isn't, Is this thing good or bad, what House Dem leaders are doing? My question is, Is this parallel correct? It's an intellectual exercise, no matter which side of the tactical fence you fall on. Is this thing like that thing, or not?
- See more at: http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2014/10/are-democratic-leaders-already-tea.html#sthash.BZq6r2C4.dpuf
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)didn't Fox used to run a show with Hannity & Alan Combs, it which Combs played the "libberul" who either agreed with Hannity on stuff or put up such shitty arguments that Hannity would wipe the floor with him?
Conservadems seem to be playing a similar role on the national scene, dancing to the tune of their corporate masters and projecting themselves as weak and ineffectual caricatures of what the Democratic Party once represented.
erronis
(15,429 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)that compared different ways of presenting views in terms of their effectiveness in changing minds. The most effective method was to provide your argument and then counter it poorly with a weak argument from the other side.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)before Jon Stewart exposed the mess, i'd check in to see who CNN was using to impugn the Dems. they'd never have anyone of depth or character. just buffoons and self-promoters. FOX does the same thing now with the progressives they pick to carry the "opposition" message.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)i think it is. maybe meghan mccain?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Many years ago when I had a trial subscription to CNN International, there was some goofy political discussion show where the two panelists would introduce themselves as "On the left, I'm LLL", and "On the right, I'm RRR". After watching a few of those shows, it became clear to me that "left" simply meant "being left of right-wing".
At least the MacLaughlin Group had some real liberals as panelists-- the late Jack Germond, and Eleanor Clift.
madokie
(51,076 posts)I love it
I didn't notice how long you've been here but I did notice your low post count so I'll say this. Welcome to the DU we love good solid democratic party members around here.
Brother Buzz
(36,490 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)By the time we hear Congressman Grayson's positions, it's been framed by the Corporate Media's perspective.
By "we" and "our", I mean non-or-new DUers.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Murphy was a Republican through 2010. He is, IMO, still a Republican.
I will be voting for Alan Grayson. No matter who is on the ballot. I am not going to start voting for fake Democrats.
Patrick Murphys bizarre early coronation as our only choice for Marco Rubios Senate seat stands out as a prime example of this pattern. As a lifelong Republican with no name recognition, one of the most conservative records in Congress, who has had to recently back track on Social Security and the full support of the party, were treading depressingly familiar ground.
Nope. Not voting for that. No matter how Progressive and liberal he tries to paint himself. There is not enough lipstick for that pig.
AC_Mem
(1,979 posts)Has my vote. I wish he were more visible in local florida politics. I open the paper and the only town halls advertised have republicans in them. Florida needs a strong democratic message and I just do not see it or hear it. The republicans are everywhere.
Another example, we have many festivals, food and family fun events where you are surrounded by booths with people selling food, services or messages. Every isle you see republican and libertarian booths but I have yet to see a Democratic one.
I've decided to stop donating to Florida democratic fundraisers until they start to show me that they actually want to fight for us here in Florida. I've really had it.
Annette/Orlando
Willing to donate and volunteer, waiting to see them actually do something to win.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)especially state and local candidates (right down to soil and water commissioners!)...and Grayson of course.
i like doing it that way b/c i like forming the relationship directly with people i'm (hopefully) going to be counting on to support me in my issues, like earned sick time.
there's also some great c3's and c4's that do wonderful non-partisan work.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)He's Blunt, to the Point, Factual, Speaks to an informed audience and He Is Not On Their (Oligarchs/Plutocrats/DemPublicans) Side....
And apparently, he and other's like him are gaining traction with Both sides of us peons out here.
The GOP base "ain't" faring any better socially and economically, (in fact they're doing Worse in Red States I would argue,) than the rest of us out here.
Their worst nightmare is for "the poors" from all political affiliations wake up and start speaking the Same language.
This ties right in with the 4 Million (and Growing) Disenfranchised Voters, doesn't it?
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)I agree, not a popular opinion here, but it's more of a top-down assauly than a right-left assault these days, we could do something about it if both sides would unite on coommon interests. We can fight about the left-right stuff and still form an economic coalition.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and he doesn't hide the fact that it pisses him off that rich people are stealing us blind.
it cuts right through the cynicism born of a thousand tassel loafer'd robots all mouthing the same BS about us having to tighten our belt b/c something something, deficit, defense, something, give me more money.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)when Russia invaded Crimea:
"This is not some new Cold War that's occurring," he said during a Foreign Affairs Committee markup, as quoted by the Daily Caller. "In fact its quite the contrary. We should be pleased to see, pleased to see, when a virtually bloodless transfer of power establishes self-determination for two million people somewhere in the world, anywhere in world."
Grayson argued that the Crimeans determined their own fate, and were merely assisted by Russia.
"The fact is from the perspective of the Crimeans, their leader, the one that they placed in charge of their country, was thrown out of power. So it should come as no surprise, as Secretary Kerry recognized, that the Crimeans had had enough, and they wanted to leave this artificial entity called the Ukraine," he said, arguing that former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was corrupt.
"Now, in fact, the Russians did assist, they assisted by disarming the local Ukrainian army and navy. Thats what they did. They did it virtually bloodlessly. They did that so that the Ukrainian army and navy could not interfere in the referendum that was held. Thats the fact of the matter."
The United States and its allies does not officially recognize the "referendum" that took place in Ukraine, placing the word in quotation marks in several statements.
"This referendum is contrary to Ukraines constitution, and the international community will not recognize the results of a poll administered under threats of violence and intimidation from a Russian military intervention that violates international law," White House press secretary Jay Carney said in a statement earlier this month.
Plus his domestic issue with the investigation into his assaulting her, which was then revealed to be her assaulting him, which then turned into a claim of bigamy. He now has a girlfriend who might run for his seat in Congress if he runs for Senate. That is problematic in that his annulment was only final a month or so ago.
Plus they refer to the DNC as wanting "losers" but remember Grayson recently lost his seat, and the 2014 campaign was very ugly with a lot of negative press about Grayson still in people's minds:
No where was that more apparent than the Tiger Bay Club debate back in September. The bickering started right off the top. Grayson constantly interrupted Long. At one point Long even told Grayson to shut up. And at the end, none of them could find one thing that they respected about each other.
The race was so ugly, the Orlando Sentinel refused to endorse either candidate, saying neither offered any leadership or statesmanship qualities.
http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/11/6/heated_house_distric.html
Orlando trial lawyer John Morgan, a major Democratic donor, said Soto would be the instant frontrunner if Grayson runs for higher office. He said Grayson never raised the issue of Minning running when the two of them sat down two weeks ago at the Hillstone Restaurant in Winter Park to talk about the Senate race. Morgan said he urged Grayson not to run for Senate.
As your brother, as your friend, as your attorney, I believe you shouldnt run for Senate, Morgan said he told Grayson. Youre going to have a lot of hurt feelings when people you think are going to support you wont support your because they dont think you can win statewide. And this is a seat we need to win.
Alans politics are closer to mine than anyone else in Florida. But like me, he is unfiltered. He speaks what he believes in. Hes unvarnished like me. And I couldnt get elected dog catcher, Morgan continued. Alans going to find that out if he tries to run statewide how tough it is.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/alan-grayson-dena-minning-florida-congress-117624.html#ixzz3ZkwghSgven there are his supporters who think it's a poor move strategically and will ultimately cost him his seat:
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)putting it in my spread sheet
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)floor- 'The GOP plan, if you get sick, die and die quickly' or smthg. to that effect. Even before his marital problems, after he returned to Congress I noticed less attention on him even among Dems. and any left media. Also saw lukewarm or even snide responses to info. about him or his emails. I couldn't understand it, and didn't like it. A few times curt remarks were about him 'funding his own campaign'.
Apart from knowing less about Tester, I agree with much of your OP about whether the Dem. establishment even wants to win anymore, except for maybe centrists and certainly not libruls and progressive 'trouble makers'. ~ Beautiful Florida, what has happened there breaks my heart.
*On Grayson's personal issues, other contemporaries have overcome worse, as in Terry Sanford of S.C., older news but serious marital stuff with Newt, Giuliani, and others I can't pull up in the brain just now. Oh, and that well known saxophone player from Arkansas. Not defending these, just observing.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)don't matter to the DNC. Amazing what the DNC will overlook as long as you kiss Wall Street's ass with every breath.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)any proof of records misconduct. If you feel like using personal email then please review other politicians who have done the same, and her marital problems aren't hers. They are her husbands. Grayson is the one who was supposedly cheating, and considering his girlfriend is on him like white on rice one month after the annulment, it isn't an unlikely claim.
Grayson won in a heavily Democratic congressional district. The state is purple-leans red. He won't be appealing to liberal Democrats. He will need to appeal to most Dems and a sizeable chunk of independents.
The general is 9 weeks after the primary, so a slug fest in the primary will damage any Dem for the general. It doesn't mean that you can't run multiple candidates, but if one of the candidates behaves like Grayson has in the past the primary will get ugly.
But your b.s. about the DNC kissing Wall Street's ass is fucking precious when you clearly don't know your candidate. Grayson is a multi-millionare and his girlfriend, who he hopes to get in his congressional seat, is a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry.
Clearly you haven't researched the issues with this race.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Morocco? Nice weather? Did you get to feed any starving children?
Yes, I'm sure.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)so much per show?
Hillary gets paid $300k because that is the going rate for a speaker with her experience and qualifications. Look up a speakers bureau and check out what everyone charges. I did think it was funny that W. only got $250k when he last spoke. LOL.
Hillary doesn't owe anyone anything except for a speech for her $300k. If it makes you feel better Kim Kardashian gets $600,000 for showing up at a night club and Brittany Spears gets $350,000.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)i'd rather people see how desperate Patrick Murphy's people really are...and how nasty THEY are and how nasty THEY intend to get.
naoya6161
(147 posts)You may not believe this, but people have already been put off by Grayson supporters. You'll come to see soon enough...
iandhr
(6,852 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)...in a Republican leaning district and won in a red wave.
djean111
(14,255 posts)I am not going to vote for him. Ever.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Murphy is now a proud member of the New Democrat Coalition - proudly dedicated to working closely with the GOP. They will be voting for Fast Track, for instance. And murphy is already being mocked in Florida for his attempts to fake being Progressive or liberal. I suppose you think asking about Warren is some kind of gotcha! But Warren has dedicated herself to liberal causes. Murphy has dedicated himself to the Third Way. No comparison. Sorry. Murphy was born a rich Republican, and is now part of the takeover of the Democratic Party by Conservatives. I will not vote for him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrat_Coalition
The Florida DNC is doing its best to jam Murphy into the Senate - to the point of calling for the de-certification of the Progressive Caucus for daring to want someone else to run.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141061550
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)are switching parties. Even Bob Dole has said he couldn't get elected with todays GOP. That is pretty telling. I don't want Murphy, but I'll take him over any Republican and I'm not a fan of Grayson personally. I agree with a lot of his ideas, but I don't think he could get elected. Just my opinion, though.
djean111
(14,255 posts)He has no problem with the GOP, really. He just saw a chance to get into Congress. His daddy bankrolls him.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2015/03/patrick-murphy-isnt-enough-of-democrat.html
Patrick Murphy isn't fit to get the Democratic Senate nomination in Florida. He hasn't done anything for anyone other than for Wall Street since he beat Allen West. Murphy is an overly-entitled, spoiled brat from a wealthy Republican family and was a Republican his entire life-- though an opportunistic one who saw a shot to switch parties and get into Congress by taking on the very polarizing Allen West. Since his election, he's consistently been one of the worst Democrats in Congress across every issue. Right now, according to ProgressivePunch's crucial vote score for the current session, he's tied with Blue Dog Collin Peterson for 4th worst-voting Democrat in the House. The only Democrats with worse scores than Murphy are Brad Ashford (another "ex"-Republican, now a Nebraska Blue Dog), Henry Cuellar (Blue Dog-TX, Bush's favorite Democrat), and the odious Gwen Graham (D-FL).
Its not easy to run statewide in Florida is you're not a big supporter of Social Security and Medicare. Murphy has been an enemy of both programs and is frantically scurrying to cover his tracks and try to paint himself as a champion of seniors. One of the very first things he did after beating West was to co-found the right-of-center United Solutions Caucus, which pushes the GOP agenda under the guise of bipartisanship. Murphy's top priority in the caucus was to gather naive sign-ons for a letter indicating a willingness to cut Social Security benefits as part of some anti-working family "Grand Bargain." His pitch was to tell colleagues that CURRENT seniors on Social Security would be safe and that the cuts would only effect future recipients.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)us another couple of years listening to Cornel West. I believe there are a couple of potential candidates who are waiting to see if the gerrymandering lawsuit holds up. If they're forced to change the districting there may be one or two who go for statewide seats rather than run in their new district.
Here's an article that was on CNN yesterday titled
Messy primary fight could cost Democrats Rubio's Senate seat
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/09/politics/florida-senate-democratic-primary-fight/
naoya6161
(147 posts)Contrary to what you think, he joined the Democrats because he was fed up with the Tea Party.
Also, he's been campaigning for Social Security ever since 2012.
TeamPooka
(24,286 posts)both in party and in policy, like his recent support of Social Security, feel false and convenient for his ambitious agenda.
as stated before - he is the 4th worst-voting Democrat in the House.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)yeah he "campaigned" since 2012, by forming a "bipartisan" committee of freshmen hacks who wanted to force The Grand Bargain on us.
He convened this largely REPUBLICAN committee as a self-promotion vehicle...as an "I'm so bipartisan, I'll throw grandma under the bus quicker than ANY Democrat out there" display.
he only recently had to walk this shit back b/c the Democratic Progressive Caucus of Florida pressed him on it and his campaign staff freaked out.
(but i bet you already knew that)
naoya6161
(147 posts)Because I actually have evidence you are wrong about that.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)or do you prefer to just repost the press release the Murphy campaign did on Social Security after the progressive caucus called him out?
naoya6161
(147 posts)March 25th. Murphy actually came out in support of the failed SS amendment and said he would defend us from cuts against it.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)gopiscrap
(23,766 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)Blind? Just look him up on the internet. Not blind hatred at all, I just do not blindly accept what Wasserman Schultz and the other Third Wayers shovel out to me.
Yeah, campaigning. To cut it, but "not for current Social Security folks".
naoya6161
(147 posts)Everything I've seen so far points to the contrary regarding SS. You're going to have to provide some real evidence to the contrary.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)It's Dems rationalizing a candidate convenient for funding purposes as a "pragmatic" choice for Florida.
Then when Florida Dems won't vote for said ex-Republican in sufficient numbers, the insiders with the failed strategy grumble about "turnout."
That whole "CURRENT seniors will be fine" angle Murphy came up with was grotesque.
"Hey, vote for me, and we'll screw over your grandchildren together!"
And this is sold as the wise, sober choice.
We can do better.
djean111
(14,255 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)It looks like the "common wisdom" in some Democratic Party circles here in Florida continues to be that you need a near-Republican (or, ideally, a recent Republican convert) to run as a Dem.
And so then we run an Alex Sink or a Kendrick Meeks or a Charlie Crist, and lose, because people who want to vote for a Republican don't have any problem finding one of those, and the excuse afterward is to blame the voters for poor turnout. And possibly also progressives for being hurtfully hung up on annoying principles and things.
As though the voters have a duty to vote for whatever super corporate, recently Republican candidate they are offered, with no corresponding duty to listen to actual Democrats, or even to allow Dems outside of the cozy Tallahassee money bubble to compete.
This business of leaking nastiness about Grayson's girlfriend or whatever, apparently to signal an all-out attack should he choose to run, is way beyond the pale. It's not the business of a handful of higher ups to anoint a candidate before anyone else can announce, and then try to quash any competition.
Primaries are good things. They let the voters speak, they provide a range of views for comparison and contrast, and they draw out Republican attacks before they can be decisive.
Purchasing a convenient money-magnet candidate early may be nice for getting all the usual operatives paid, but it doesn't win elections, and it's not the voters who need to come around.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)told him he can't win? One of his biggest supporters is telling Grayson this. And why are you defending his girlfriend? She is a lobbyist for pharma.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Are you're saying people purporting to work for Dems are justified making creepy leaks about Grayson's friends and family?
Because that's just not okay. There's no level of favoring one Dem over another that justifies that kind of slime, in my opinion.
As for one donor not supporting Grayson as a basis to attack him tooth and nail, I'd say a lot of the point here is that small numbers of big donors anointing a specific candidate before anyone's had time to announce is a poor approach, both in principle and practice.
The same geniuses brought us Sink and Crist, right? So that's not working. If you want someone electable, you should permit input from the actual voters in your party instead of getting all stabby with whoever didn't get picked by the in group. That's not even within the purview of party leaders in the first place.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)dismissing the signifigance of that? It is a longtime donor to the Democratic party who is familiar with the state.
People like you just can't admit that Grayson has a lot of baggage. He lost me with his remarks about Crimea and Putin. I don't disagree with most of his policies, but I won't go out of my way to support him. Plus he's arrogant. One of his quotes:
"I would be very surprised if I ever lost a primary in my life," Grayson boasted. "Our voters will crawl over hot coals to vote for me."
Puleese.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)that's just wrong.
also -- he's right about his voters. he knows his voters better than most.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)acknowledge is that one of the Democratic party stalwarts, mega donors, long time party activist, and GOOD FRIEND and LAWYER of Grayson doesn't think he can win. He loves Alan & they're very good friends, but he also knows the state, the issues facing the senate campaign and he knows Grayson personally. He says he and grayson are very much alike in that they always speak their minds, but the lawyer said that he couldn't get himself elected dog catcher and knows that Grayson's outspoken nature will cost him the Senate election.
There are many, many people who don't think Grayson can win. What is significant is that someone so close to him doesn't think he should. (I also imagine his friend might know whether Grayson was cheating on his wife).
Grayson's district is almost 2 to1 Democratic voters with a heavy independent presence. It has 51% women to 48% men and is 42% hispanic. All the traditional democratic voters. He won that race by less than 10%. How is it you think he can win when the demographics are skewed in the favor of Republicans and centrist Dems & Independents?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)one person doesn't speak for ALL of us even if his ads claim to speak "FOR THE PEOPLE."
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)They DO need permission from their owners.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)should have the power to veto a campaign.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)lark
(23,183 posts)Ever since Lawton Child went out of office, we've never had a progressive even make it to the general election for governor. TPTB in FL hate Grayson, he's everything they aren't, he tells the truth and is in it for t he working folks. They aren't fond of Nelson either, but he does go their way every once in awhile, so they don't hate him like they do Grayson.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and my folks were familiar with a much different Democratic party.
Seems to me and everyone i know that the state party needs to accept responsibility for their inability to win campaigns and FIX that.
lark
(23,183 posts)They only let Repug-lites run for office, no true progressive need apply. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is so disgustingly typical of Fl Dems. Grayson is the rare true leftie.
naoya6161
(147 posts)Grayson doesn't qualify.
lark
(23,183 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)He's ran campaign ads that were blatantly false, used insulting terms that i expect out of right wingers, etc. There are better people out there who can and do WIN.
trumad
(41,692 posts)And he beat the Republican. Insult away Congressman.
7962
(11,841 posts)He's a liar and i wouldnt support him if I lived in FL. But since I dont, I guess it doesnt really matter!!
I just expect my politicians to be better people than the opposition. Pipe dream? Probably.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Here's what I think. I think it's a fucking war and you kick every fucking Republican in the nuts until they are vanquished.
Fuck the Republicans.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)see Democrats lose and whine about how offended the Tea Party might be, than actually support a true progressive.
so sad.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)he once compared the tea party movement to the KKK, and ran a campaign ad in 2010 calling GOP challenger Dan Webster "Taliban Dan."
Not to mention some of the stupid $hit he comes up with sometimes:
"We go into an election next year with something very important happening in Florida this year. This is the year that Florida becomes a majority minority state, joining New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, California and Hawaii. Why is that important? Because it tells us what our strategy as the Democratic Party will be for next year ..."
The email, sent out by Grayson's reelection campaign Monday included a graphic image of two Klansmen standing near a giant burning cross. The cross is used to help spell out tea party in burning flames. Clicking on the image takes viewers directly to an ActBlue webpage, where they can donate directly to Alan Grayson for Congress, the congressman's 2014 re-election campaign.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Whaaaa! He insulted the fucking Tea Party---Whaaaaaa!
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)he was attacking Daniel Webster on women's issues, specifically. this is why the party feels so entitled to swing this around.
naoya6161
(147 posts)You know, that caused him to lose the seat 56-38%, and made him do worse than Sink did in that district.
So yeah, moderates will be turned off.
trumad
(41,692 posts)The district Grayson ran in during 2010 was a swing district.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)for me. I think it's totally inappropriate and disrespectful. Furthermore, it didn't serve it's purpose. I understand candidates having to do unseemly things in this day and age, but this didn't even work. It backfired on him. How is that good politics?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)Here is a link to the Taliban Dan commercial.
Rep. Grayson Lowers the Bar
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/09/rep-grayson-lowers-the-bar/
Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Graysons campaign sent out a fundraising email likening the tea party to the Ku Klux Klan, complete with an image of a burning cross.
The email, which went out to supporters yesterday, shows a burning cross complete with images of two KKK-like figures in the background used as the T in tea party. When users click on the image, theyre taken to a fundraising landing page for Graysons campaign.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/alan-grayson-tea-party-kkk-98673.html#ixzz3ZlxCgkQ
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)and, ha.
7962
(11,841 posts)Made his opponent look like he said something he didnt.
I guess a lot of folks here on DU will back anything as long as it means the Dem wins. I want to be represented by people who are ABOVE the classless crap that the other side does. There are people like that who have good ideas as well.
I've never seen a Bernie Sanders resort to such tactics.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)some folks like baubles. i like working families supported by a living wage and sick time.
naoya6161
(147 posts)But others won't be as convinced.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)The ineffectual are afraid it might be catching...or worse, fatal for them.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)right here in this thread. they don't want to talk about policy. it's all "he did an ad that offended the Tea Party."
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)As Larry Summers explained to Elizabeth Warren:
I had been warned.
http://billmoyers.com/2014/09/05/i-had-been-warned/
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)who gained acclaim as a result of a fiery speech advocating for the Heritage-designed, Neo-liberal, Third Way, Big Insurance giveaway ACA?
Well SMH.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)You consider that to have been off base?
Grayon's always backed national healthcare and continues to do so. No one loves the ACA, but supporting it over the Republican's claims of "death panels" and whatnot, while still maintaining national healthcare would be preferable, was the right thing to do.
http://grayson.house.gov/index.php/issues/health-care
Grayson's position on healthcare is among the best in Congress and always has been.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)He became a liberal lion as a result of a speech in favor of Obamacare.
I have no problem with that.
mother earth
(6,002 posts)that truly is.
We know who truly represents the people, we are learning time after time who they truly are. This is the moment in time when we either put muscle and unity behind our values, or suffer the consequences.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)back in 2011, just as Occupy was launching...good stuff.
someone should take PJ's scotch away from him for few hours before the show, though
mother earth
(6,002 posts)to, I don't see why Maher ever invites him on the show, he is truly one of the worst guests ever on that show, brings nothing to the table. He really must be hitting the bottle, seems so.
I love AG, admirable man, and I've got a short list, like many here, I'm sure, we can count them on one hand.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)he's a good example of that. he's an entertaining example of that. and annoying -- i turn off Wait Wait Don't Tell Me when he's on.
the nice thing that the Blue Dems are a dying breed. they can't win races, they've already lost most of the seats they had. at this point it's either get on the bus or get left behind.
brooklynite
(94,916 posts)The answer is that Wlan Grayson, who lost his seat and won it back only after he was redistricted into an absolutely safe D seat, is not seen as being competetive in a State where voters were happy to vote for Rick Scott and Marco Rubio. The fact that people here like his pointed speeches doesn't mean it goes over well with others.
elleng
(131,292 posts)NOT a member of the 'in crowd,' tells the truth, and won't be bought, thus thought of as possibly jeopardizing sacred cows important to many of tptb.
mother earth
(6,002 posts)grassroot support. The champions of the people are always marginalized in short order.
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)we could leverage the efficiencies of economies of scale with multiple races across many states.
CanonRay
(14,132 posts)and the powerful do not like the truthful.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I never got the impression that the party is "scared" of Grayson in any way. A lot of people, myself included, just don't like him.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)office. Maybe all or nearly all Democratic legislators have been replaced by actors who must earn their multimillion dollar lobbying jobs acting out the roles of adversaries in order to perpetuate the illusion of a Democratic system.
Someone like Grayson, Wellstone, Elizabeth Warren, or Bernie who go off script are a risk to their cushy gigs.
mother earth
(6,002 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Unfortunately both parties suffer from this. "The way things are done" continues to be that insiders would prefer that their supposed constituents stay out of the way. Deals have been made; money has changed hands.
I've seen this much more blatantly with Republicans -- the literal RAGE that the actual people would think they have anything to do with how or by whom they are governed.
But this farce with a recent Republican, whose signature effort is a "bipartisan" agreement that SS is a big problem that needs restructuring?
I think the rage now is in people calling attention to it.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)"we HAVE to do this to WIN" is just patter to keep us mortal fools quiet
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)where they think it's "bad form" to run a progressive when donors want a conservadem. We need to remind them that primaries are when that decision is made.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)progressive; "electable" is just a calque for corporatist, not an actual strategy
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)the Republicans steal elections during and after the voting...
so patient they are.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)one of them works for the Florida Party now...just to provide a sense of losery their loserism is.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Insider wisdom is so ... not wise.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Well done. I have wondered the same thing.
hay rick
(7,655 posts)In an alternate universe, the people of Florida are just waiting for a progressive hero like Alan Grayson to lead them to the promised land of revolt against the 1%. I wish I inhabited that universe- I like Grayson's politics better than Murphy's. Sadly, in the Florida which I do inhabit, I think we are better off with Murphy as a candidate.
I have witnessed Murphy very close up. I worked on his initial campaign against Allen West. I volunteered because I wanted to take down West. Story here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021798362 In the course of that campaign I spent hundreds of hours in Murphy campaign offices, made thousands of phone calls, marched in parades, put out roadside signs, and wrote letters to the editor. I worked more on a local campaign in 2014 but I still did some work for Murphy and his local office was next door to our county office so I was able to witness his campaign's activities on a regular basis. One important observation based on my experience: Murphy has a very professional campaign operation.
The article ties Murphy to Crist and Sink based on ideology and claims that, on that basis, he will lose like they did. I beg to differ. Murphy and Crist may be ideological kin, but Murphy is a tireless, capable campaigner and Crist was inept in 2014. I witnessed the Crist campaign close up a couple of times and came away bitterly disappointed. The voters verdict in my county: Murphy +8%, Crist -15%.
One problem with Florida's governor race is that it is contested in non-presidential years and Democrats don't turn out. Scott outspent Crist by 2 to 1 and spent almost all of it on attack ads. My take on his spending was that he wanted to convince younger, inattentive voters that Crist was just as bad as him, so they could just stay home. And they did.
The Republicans don't have a positive message to offer most voters in Florida, so they offer fear, hate, and disgust- and it has been working. My problem with Grayson is I think he will be a big, easy target for the Republican hate machine. The article cites his fundraising prowess but I don't see him being able to raise 5 or 10 times as much from his national progressive base just because he is running for the Senate instead of for a safe seat in the House. Murphy can raise money and I think his button-down persona will be much less vulnerable to Republican attacks. He survived a withering series of attack ads in his initial campaign.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)funny, huh?
naoya6161
(147 posts)Unlike Grayson, Hillary has been doing this for years and has the tact to move around controversy.
Grayson is more akin to West.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)naoya6161
(147 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)naoya6161
(147 posts)Just not in the way you thought.
hay rick
(7,655 posts)It said: Voted for Obama? Thanks, asshole.
Whoever the Dems put up for president will be vilified. Hillary is drawing special attention now because she is the frontrunner. If Sanders or someone else wins the nomination they will quickly surpass Hillary as an object of hatred.
I support Bernie. Obviously, Bernie's politics are closer to Grayson's than Murphy's. My support for Murphy is based on my belief that he can beat almost any Republican opponent, including RUBIO. I also believe that Grayson will lose to almost any Republican who isn't caught on tape having sex with a goat. I wish I could believe otherwise. I see the politics, the man, and the campaign as separate entities and I think it's foolish to fall in love with one and pretend the other two will go away.
For what it's worth, I think Murphy's politics may become more palatable over time. Early in his first term he sponsored budget workshops that used a Concord Coalition workbook (Pete Peterson). Now he has signed on to raising the cap. He also recently signed the congressional letter opposing fast track for TPP.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)They've got a good gravy-train thing going right now.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Money humpers are calling the shots for both parties.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)I'm not sure how electable he is in a state which, unfortunately, seems to be becoming increasingly more conservative.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)SamKnause
(13,114 posts)I admire Representative Alan Grayson.
I can count on one hand the politicians that I feel this way about.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That would be Grayson himself. Grayson and Crist should have an ego-off.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)A State that voted twice for Obama and only one statewide Democrat in office? No matter who they put up in 2016 i'm sure they'll find a way to blow it, like they did twice against fraudster Rick Scott. Murphy's record is atrocious and will never get my vote, i'll say that much.