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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWorker fired for disabling GPS app that tracked her 24 hours a day
A Central California woman claims she was fired after uninstalling an app that her employer required her to run constantly on her company issued iPhonean app that tracked her every move 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Plaintiff Myrna Arias, a former Bakersfield sales executive for money transfer service Intermex, claims in a state court lawsuit that her boss, John Stubits, fired her shortly after she uninstalled the job-management Xora app that she and her colleagues were required to use. According to her suit (PDF) in Kern County Superior Court:
Intermex did not immediately respond for comment.
The suit, which claims invasion of privacy, retaliation, unfair business practices, and other allegations, seeks damages in excess of $500,000 and asserts she was monitored on the weekends when she was not working.
Arias' boss "scolded" her for uninstalling the app shortly after being required to use it, according to the suit. Her attorneys said the woman made $7,250 per month and that she "met all quotas" during a brief stint with Intermex last year.
"This intrusion would be highly offensive to a reasonable person," the filing said.
Arias' attorney, Gail Glick, said in a Monday e-mail to Ars that the app allowed her client's "bosses to see every move the employees made throughout the day."
<snip>
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/05/worker-fired-for-disabling-gps-app-that-tracked-her-24-hours-a-day/
treestar
(82,383 posts)I don't think even that has 24 hour monitoring.
malthaussen
(17,230 posts)... for some cases, anyway.
-- Mal
Warpy
(111,418 posts)I know I'd do it if an employer got that nosy.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)LisaL
(44,980 posts)She claims she was fired after she un-installed the app so she is now suing.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)If it's their property, they might have a case since she's basically modifying it by removing that app. But they would NOT have a case for turning the phone off when not in use.
It sucks all around though
LisaL
(44,980 posts)Without un-installing the app.
GeorgeGist
(25,326 posts)and used her own. Problem solved.
LisaL
(44,980 posts)How would she answer calls from clients if her phone was off?
Renew Deal
(81,895 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)But unfortunately, they can still claim "tampering with company property". But I'd like to think a case could be made to forbid employers from installing the apps in the first place.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)There's no way I'd want to be woken up at 3 in the morning just to take a call from a client.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Simply wrap it in tin foil!
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)including the audio microphone. Same deal with internet TV that has voice commands; even turned off it can hear you. Creepy, you can't make this stuff up. Thom Hartmann had an expert on his program discussing smart televisions. The end of privacy as we've known it they say.
meow2u3
(24,775 posts)This is the principle. Company phone or no company phone, invasion of privacy is illegal.
Omaha Steve
(99,835 posts)He was shocked to learn even though the battery was dead, it tracked his location all over his travels.
Apple can track you even AFTER your iPhone battery dies: Sensors use built-in chip to collect data when the 5S is 'dead'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2573761/Apple-track-AFTER-iPhone-battery-dies-Sensors-continue-collect-data-phone-dead.html#ixzz3ZsRjz700
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Reason number 47,236 why I'm keeping my dumb phone.
Hekate
(90,978 posts)Seems pretty simple. Leave the work phone at the workplace at the end of the day or if that is not possible leave it in a drawer at home and use your own phone for your own business.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)toss the phone in the back of a truck headed to Tierra del Fuego and points beyond!
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)different variations, same idea.
Response to Sherman A1 (Reply #5)
awoke_in_2003 This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)JI7
(89,283 posts)especially if she is just at "home" so doesn't have an excuse for not answering.
She's an employee, not his personal property.
Fuck him if he doesn't like it.
LisaL
(44,980 posts)After she un-instaleld the app, she got fired.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)include signing a contract that specifies that you are "all on-call" meaning you are never allowed to be not potentially called into work or to fulfill work duties from one moment to the next 24/7/365 unless you're on vacation.
People in these positions get paid an arm and a leg because they sign away their right to off-work time.
Yes, that is perfectly legal if you were wondering because it's voluntary and because you can quit at any time or opt to self-terminate by failing to meet the terms of contract by being available.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)groundloop
(11,530 posts)I also wholeheartedly disagree with the argument that it's ok to abuse the privacy of employees 'because they can quit at any time'. Nobody should have to make the choice between tolerating an invasion of privacy (or any unethical work conditions) and quitting their job.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)with the same responsibility plus I had the fucking Nextel chirping with matters of such gravity as "what are you doing?" and "I'm bored".
My point is don't think this is all about high rollers of any sort.
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. however, with the shit-4-brains Congress we have, fully corrupted "justice" system, and the capitulating, spineless administration, who knows, I could be wrong.
Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)LisaL
(44,980 posts)from clients.
ablamj
(333 posts)for being on call 24/7?
Chan790
(20,176 posts)It's a term of the contract of the position and factored into her salaried compensation.
I turned down a similar position years ago because I didn't want to be under these conditions.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)but we certainly didn't get $80,000 plus a year for doing it.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Reference made to "The Devil Wears Prado." The first time they can't reach you at 2 am, you're no longer loyal enough.
Warpy
(111,418 posts)I would simply never accept those terms no matter how high the salary.
Nursing was bad enough, being called in on days off.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)There is no leave it at work option.
Warpy
(111,418 posts)back in the 1950s. While he was on the road, he relied on land lines in hotels and pay phones and the US mail. Sending a telegram was unusual. He made appointments and distributors kept them.
There is no fucking reason in the world for this shit except creeping serfdom.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Its why I'm highly motivated for change. The corporations & Moneyed Interests wield too much destructive power over People.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)And I really feel for them. Pay is crap, too. And the idiots higher up the ladder.....ugh. god.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)She was required to carry the phone 24/7, and keep it on 24/7. And not in airplane mode 24/7.
And the article could take the same advice. The actual lawsuit says it was her personal phone, not a company issued phone.
LisaL
(44,980 posts)Wow.
Arkansas Granny
(31,539 posts)to carry it outside her regular working hours? I didn't see anything at the link that addressed that issue.
LisaL
(44,980 posts)locations.
So I don't know if it would be possible for her to leave it in the office when she was not in the office.
ohnoyoudidnt
(1,858 posts)It is at the bottom of page 3.
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Intermexcomplaint.pdf
Snarkoleptic
(6,002 posts)He uses his personal cell phone for work and they require him to have the "Airwatch" app on his phone.
Airwatch has "jailbreak" detection, GPS tracking (which cannot be shut off), plus they can also see any photos on the phone, read all of his personal emails and texts.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)if I had any choice. So many people don't nowadays.
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)if a needle broke, and their pay was docked. At many places employees were also charged for using the chair they sat in to work. The last one about did me in.
petronius
(26,608 posts)phone or her personal phone. The suit just says "their phones" and "her phone" as far as I can tell. This would be even more offensive, IMO, if it was a personal phone...
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Intermexcomplaint.pdf
LisaL
(44,980 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)At least, when it mentions the demand to install the software, it does not say they were company-issued phones. It implies personal ownership.
progressoid
(50,011 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Any time you have to be on call, that is counted as work.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Her pay is based on the premise of 24-hour on-call workdays and she was paid as such...(edit: ) over-$7k/month.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Many workers are exempt and the employer has no obligation to ever pay them overtime. Accepting a position that is exempt from the FLSA and has no contract, collective or otherwise, means you've just sold part of your soul to the company.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I hope it is against the law. I never know any more. It seems we are losing more and more of our privacy, whether we want to or not.
1939
(1,683 posts)You can monitor my movements all you want to.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Lonusca
(202 posts)that there is "a price". Lots of people would agree (and do agree) to these conditions. Millions probably already do in one form or another.
Whether her suit has merit - I don't know but I am doubtful.
There is always (at least now) a price to pay to make a high salary.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)On one side, it's company property so she shouldn't be modifying it.
On the other side, if not during work hours, she shouldn't be required to carry it.
I suspect, the company will settle this long before the court gets involved.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)This is why you always read contracts before you sign them...so you don't sign something that specifies that your work-hours are whenever a client or supervisor calls you 24-hours/day unless you're on vacation.
Because she voluntarily agreed to not have non-work time...they can legally demand she carry it all the time.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Even if so, is it legal?
The company might settle just to stop the risk from having to uninstall it.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Next step, RFID chips under the skin of all employees.
alfredo
(60,078 posts)Should have left the company phone at home, and carried her own phone.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)alfredo
(60,078 posts)"From the article: The app had a "clock in/out" feature which did not stop GPS monitoring, that function remained on. This is the problem about which Ms. Arias complained. Management never made mention of mileage. They would tell her co-workers and her of their driving speed, roads taken, and time spent at customer locations. Her manager made it clear that he was using the program to continuously monitor her, during company as well as personal time."
This is industrial espionage.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)alfredo
(60,078 posts)why should she keep her leash on? Yes, she should keep the phone with her while on the clock. I didn't see anything about her being required to have the phone on 24/7. I think the company will argue that if she didn't want to be monitored off the clock, she should use a personal phone at those times.
She did alter a company phone, but they should have been honest about tracking her when off the clock. That's creepy.
I hope she wins, but I have a feeling they will have a good case in defense of their actions. Still, the creepiness and the dishonesty of the company could help her.
The Postal Service is also micromanaging employees, but only on the clock.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)I hear the new model is out next June
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)2naSalit
(86,900 posts)Munificence
(493 posts)2naSalit
(86,900 posts)I blew it it in my calculation, thanks for catching that!
druidity33
(6,450 posts)Which is not quite a buck twenty eight, but it's still not that great.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)BUT....I would not like the intrusivness that was going on here
druidity33
(6,450 posts)i tell all my new shop employees to READ THEIR CONTRACT! If you can't abide by it, the Union can't support you. The flipside is of course that if you're being subjected to demands/terms beyond that contract, you have recourse. I don't think geotagging was in her contract, regardless of whether she was employed 24/7.
2naSalit
(86,900 posts)wrong while I was trying to work it out. Still, I agree, it isn't much of a wage. While on call 24/7, one also bears additional expense due to traveling frequently... sundries and food cost a lot when one is on the road, so to speak.
Just give me another badge on my math dunce sash.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)2naSalit
(86,900 posts)I confess, I have always been something of a math dunce... dyslexia has it's downsides!
Thanks for the correction.
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)they need to monitor her location in the first place? Sounds like a shit company to work for - at any price.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If they needed someone at a certain location as fast as possible, it would help to know who is where. That doesn't mean the company isn't shit to work for. If I'm going to sell my privacy to the company, it ain't gonna be cheap.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)This shit has gotten intolerable.
On edit, and forwarded the calls to my personal phone.
Actually, I think I would do this 24/7.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)personal business phone then leave the business phone at the office in the ON mode.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)brooklynite
(94,922 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)$85K job.
LisaL
(44,980 posts)when she wasn't in her office.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Not sure why the employer required it, but I would have sat down with them and asked is there was something we can do because I just didn't feel comfortable.
I haven't read this closely, so maybe she did. Or maybe they harassed her. That's are different.
I'm one who has the opinion that at that level of salary, if you don't like things, you do yourself and the employer a favor and quit if you just can't put up with something. Besides, it's satisfying to tell them to stuff it.
I don't feel like that for people making a lot less.
alfredo
(60,078 posts)The app had a "clock in/out" feature which did not stop GPS monitoring, that function remained on. This is the problem about which Ms. Arias complained. Management never made mention of mileage. They would tell her co-workers and her of their driving speed, roads taken, and time spent at customer locations. Her manager made it clear that he was using the program to continuously monitor her, during company as well as personal time.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)drawer after hours.
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)concerned about tracking.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)EL34x4
(2,003 posts)When they're in the company truck, presumably, they're working. When they park the truck, hop in a cab and head to the bar, they're not working. And they're not being tracked.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Her contract required her to be available for calls 24/7
B Calm
(28,762 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Its great.
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Was this known when you were hired?
Is this even legal?
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)I think its been 2 years now with the full 24 hour tracking installed on the iphones. But in ours, they disabled the ability to disable the tracker.
I don't know if its legal. They have an enormous legal department, so I imagine they've found a way to make it so.
But they don't have to worry about firing someone for disabling it....
I'm not proud. Just middle-aged and know if I lose my job, I'll have trouble finding a new one. I get in line.
Lonusca
(202 posts)and thinking how cool it was. Until it started beeping. That was the beginning of 20+ years of basically being on call 24/7.
What I think a lot of people miss is that - yes this sucks - but if you don't agree to the conditions, someone else will. The train is not turning back.
I also think the next generation doesn't have the same basic concept of "privacy" that we did. It's not that big of a deal for people to know where you are an what you are doing at any hour of the day.
20score
(4,769 posts)I've been warning people for three decades that this kind of shit would happen once the country changed its views on worker's rights. It started with piss tests and moved onto a mindset where employers have every right to know who they were hiring. And that meant knowing how they behave outside of work.
No they fucking don't. One does a job and gets paid for a job well done. That's the beginning, middle and end of the deal. Fuck all the fascists who think otherwise.
I could imagine a woman going to a women's clinic after work and having to answer as to some asshole supervisor whether she was there for birth control or an abortion because the corporations "religion" forbids such things.
Jeez ---let me out of here......
Mariana
(14,861 posts)(or for not going to church at all), or attending the "wrong" political events, or basically doing anything your supervisor disapproves of.
meow2u3
(24,775 posts)I'm sick of fascists who think they can pry into their employees' private lives and order them around 24/7!
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)hope she takes them to the cleaners.
Faryn Balyncd
(5,125 posts)... of profits, assuming The corporation adopting the 24 hour surveillance was from a TPP member state, and the TPP passes in a form similar to what has been leaked?
(This sounds like an easier way for corporations to make money than "the old-fashioned way".)
diabeticman
(3,121 posts)You can't complain to your facebook friends about your bad day or tip because you can get fired for speaking Ill of the company. This article. Hell, employers are demanding peoples facebook/twitter and the like --passwords.
Thanks Right-To-Work crap that keeps us under the thumb nail of corporations.
Hekate
(90,978 posts)appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Email contact form
http://intermexonline.com/contact/
My message which did not go through--
Rehire Myrna Arias of Bakersfield! What in bloody hell business is of yours where she is when she isn't at work? If the Xora app can't be adjusted to function only during work hours, get rid of it. Her supervisor John Stubits should be fired instead
Regulatory Compliance Department
1.800.792.8017
compliance@intermexusa.com
Customer Service Department
1.800.670.8611
cs-mexicosupervisors@intermexusa.com
International Headquarters
9480 S. Dixie Highway
Miami, FL 33156
United States
Tel: 305-671-8000
1.800.670.8611
eridani
(51,907 posts)dembotoz
(16,864 posts)2 phones with call forwarding
patricia92243
(12,607 posts)the other side of right to work is "right to fire you."
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)It'll also be interesting to see how this plays out in court.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And they foolishly did provide an explanation.
druidity33
(6,450 posts)violation of civil rights would make it actionable. I'm not sure where this case would fall... privacy rights? What does her contract for employment stipulate and what are her rights in relation to those stipulations? Can an employment contract legitimize 24 hour unwilling tracking of employees? This sound like a landmark legal case to me....
malaise
(269,259 posts)after she dues the pants off that fascist.
hunter
(38,341 posts)... and they are all life-or-death sorts of things.
Is anyone going to die? Is anyone going to suffer permanent injury?
If not it can wait until the morning.
True 24/7 work, say the electric company or the hospital, simply ought to hire enough people to cover all the shifts. Even sparse on-call work should be split between at least two people, preferably more. People ought to be "off leash" most of the time otherwise they are some sort of slave.
It's not like there's any shortage of people looking for work.
We the People ought to declare war on these sorts of scummy employer practices and outlaw them.
appalachiablue
(41,188 posts)the shots and know it. They're also into using data, computers and tracking a lot. There are cases when people have missed car loan payments and their vehicle is remotely 'killed' (Chris Hayes, MSNBC). It's a very crazy world.
Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)My vote, if on a jury, would be "tough shit, lady."
My sentence would be a term in Remedial Thinking class.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)and thus discovering the company required her to carry it 24/7. Powered on. And not in airplane mode.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I'm serious, at that level of salary, you quit if you really don't like something. At a lower salary, I think it's a different situation.
Personally, I'm not sure why the employer does this. I bet they don't do a lot of checking, if any, after normal business hours.
I'm even less certain why the lady doesn't just put her phone in the bathroom when she gets home and go do whatever she thinks might be an invasion of privacy. I would, or I'd walk in and ask the employer to bend over while I give them their phone back.
Again, if the employer is digitally stalking or harassing people, that's different.
LisaL
(44,980 posts)She un-instaleld the app and was fired.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)Nice personalizing.
I should say Fuck you. But I won't. So I am not saying fuck you to you.
Now go alert on me.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)read the story and thus erroneously calling them stupid means he's great?
Suuuurre.
And no, I'm not going to alert on you. I want everyone to see your brilliant writing.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I think we shouldn't ignore that her boss called up her second job and got her fired.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)its a guestion of there being a job like this .Our need for conveniences creates slavery plain and simple ........ooooh remember that cash stuff ?
PCIntern
(25,628 posts)She should have taken her phone and placed it in a magnetic box like a Hide-a-key and attached it to his car and let him drive around with it for the weekend or evening. Add this up over time, prepare the report which shows an absolute coincidental placement of him and her and threaten to show it to the soon-to-be-aggrieved spouse/partner to "prove" that they'd been having an affair during the off-hours.
Or even better, she could put it on the car of the spouse/partner when the boss is at work and when the report shows that she's hanging around at all weird hours with that individual...uh-oh!
Hilarity Ensues!!!
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)It seems many or even most have not a clue of actual 24/7 on call.
PCIntern
(25,628 posts)remember those?
I know what 24/7 on call means...I've LIVED it for 35 years.
villager
(26,001 posts)...when one thinks of Kevin Spacey's "negotiation" when leaving his job...!