General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGM: That Car You Bought? We’re Really The Ones Who Own It.
At least, thats what an attorney for GM said at a hearing this week, Autoblog reports. Specifically, attorney Harry Lightsey said, It is [GMs] position the software in the vehicle is licensed by the owner of the vehicle.
GMs claim is all about copyright and software code, and its the same claim John Deere is making about their tractors. The TL;DR version of the argument goes something like this:
Cars work because software tells all the parts how to operate
The software that tells all the parts to operate is customized code
That code is subject to copyright
GM owns the copyright on that code and that software
A modern car cannot run without that software; it is integral to all systems
Therefore, the purchase or use of that car is a licensing agreement
And since it is subject to a licensing agreement, GM is the owner and can allow/disallow certain uses or access.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They will be quite happy to fix it, and to own a monopoly in repairs.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)If they own it then they are responsible for maintenance and upkeep.
Here in TX as the owner then they are responsible for the insurance too.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They don't own the car.
They own the exclusive right to modify the software in the car.
You are reading too much into a simple-minded headline.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)surrealAmerican
(11,360 posts)... but I am still free to highlight passages, cross things out, write in the margins, or cut it up and re-arrange the words if I want to. What GM is asking for is well beyond copyright protection,
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)You have to be using it to create original content which is not wholly-derivative and which consists in total of a substantial work of which the derivative work is only a portion. (I realize that sentence is unwieldy; there is not really a better way to parse and phrase it.) If the work is in the same medium as the original work, you must also include citations. Working artists are generally well-aware of these legal limitations and opportunities.
For example, I can take entire pages out of my copy of 50 Shades of Gray (or even the entire book if I was feeling ambitious and wanted to paint something on the scale used by Chuck Close (very very large...sometimes the size of billboards)), highlight specific passages relevant to the derivative work, papier-mâché them onto a piece of backing-board and using water-colors or gouache paint a bondage scene in grayscale. I can then sell the resulting painting.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)If you buy a book for your Nook or Kindle, it comes with warning that you cannot share it with anyone else.
And, you do not "own" it...Amazon can and HAS taken someone's book back from their Kindle.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)ck4829
(35,076 posts)Would this also make GM responsible for collisions?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Do you own your computer? Yes.
Are you allowed to modify your copy of Microsoft Word installed on your computer? No.
rickford66
(5,523 posts)I have the right to install my own code if I wish.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)#1, they would know because today's cars talk back to GM, in a manner of speaking.
#2, you would instantly void all warranties.
I have been reading a lot about what puters can do in cars, how they are used, how they communicate info back to GM ( and to your insurance company)
and while the idea of puter generated roadside assistance in neat,
it does give me pause at how much control of the car is not longer up to the driver.
Tis the single most important reason I still hold onto my '93 Toyota.
rickford66
(5,523 posts)Would never have a car where someone can eavesdrop without my knowledge. I can, as I said, delete the code if I want. Voiding the warranty is a joke. The auto companies hardly cover anything anyway. They make it hard to find out what they do cover. People are still getting killed due to the GM ignition switch problem. I'm building a 65 Mustang and it can't talk to anyone.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)Microsoft lost that lawsuit when they tried that with IE and coding both the OS and browser so it would break the OS if you attempted to uninstall it or any other Microsoft-installed peripheral piece of software not actually necessary to the operation of the OS. They also lost when they attempted to use chipsets to make it impossible for people buying a PC with a Microsoft OS installed to replace it or delete it...even when they attempted to subsequently-argue it was an anti-piracy measure.
Probably most-relevant to the case in question, all software is extension-open by law. You're not allowed to make your programs unalterable by third-party software unless that software illegally uses your code within it's own code. For example, I cannot make a program that modifies my copy of Microsoft Word to take parts of Microsoft's code and use it to create an unrelated application, nor to break it's copy-protection, nor can I write a program to work with my copy of Microsoft Word which contains any code copyrighted by Microsoft. (It's not necessary to do so to modify the original program however...and if it were, the law would likely void their copyright.) There is nothing they can do to stop me from writing a program that alters my copy of MS Word to allow me to use macros or keystroke-shortcuts to enter commonly-used text into my documents, nor can they attempt charge me or the publisher a fee (licensing or otherwise) for the ability to do so. Their right to prevent reasonable user modification of their software ends the second they install it into a consumer device.
GM is going to get spanked on this unless some Federal court decides to rewrite a lot of case law...and basically bring the entirety of computing and the internet to a halt.
foo_bar
(4,193 posts)I bet you can't even sell the car without violating the EULA.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You never own software. It is always licensed.
This is much ado about nothing. If you have a problem with GM's code, write your own.
uncle ray
(3,156 posts)they are basically claiming ownership of the software, you can still do what you like with the hardware, as is the case with pretty much any electronic product. there is not a mechanic on the planet that has any business messing with code to make a routine repair. tuners have been able to work around this constraint for years already. the aftermarket has adapted well to tuning modern cars. a typical method is using a tuner box, which simply plugs inline between the cars computer and other devices, sensors, etc. and tweaks the data being passed around between devices. it wasn't long ago hot rodders were up in arms about the introduction of OBD, it would be the end of modifying late model cars many said, yet now cars perform better than ever, are cleaner than ever, and ironically enough, are easier to tune and modify for higher performance.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)"Too bad. So sad. We own it." And refused to honor promises to customers renting EV1s who wanted to purchase the cars, opting to junk the 1,000 vehicle fleet, instead. Oil companies were happy.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)They license you to use it. Unless you use open source software, GPL software, and run GNU/Linux OX.
They own the software, and you basically lease it. The same with the firmware (software that is embedded on the chips in your computer) in most devices that you have. You own the device, but you are licensed to use the software.
I think that Google is coming out with a phone that is GPL.
In the meantime, you don't own any of your gadgets, the software companies do.
Auggie
(31,169 posts)"It's ugly, but it gets you there"
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)And do miss them.
The newer VW was not as good of a car, IMHO.
Auggie
(31,169 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I miss old fashioned cars.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)somebody...or somebodies....are going to make a comfortable living by repairing and selling pre- year 2000 cars.
Not the antique Model A types that people show off now but pre computer controlling cars.
and pre-computer other things, too.