apparently Hillary vs. Bernie is now a racial contest

[Enrique]

with Hillary on the good end this time.

DU at times resembles Camelot

[JustAnotherGen]

1. It's not

But it's kind of funny to see how far back in time people are willing to go to have this non argument!

[Warren DeMontague]

2. We've entered the "just make shit up" phase of the primaries, on DU.

Extra points awarded for dense walls of authoritative-sounding text, heavy on big words that don't actually mean anything.

[seabeyond]

15. right. go after people that actually say something, and i guess you are suggesting ANYONE on du did

call sanders a racist.

that is you illusionary bullshit you guys are creating. you being one. right here on this post. and damn...

do not use too many words. god knows too many words makes too much work in the reading.

like it is not perfectly clear who you attack

[Warren DeMontague]

47. it's not the words or the numbers of the words

it's how they're used---- and whether they actually communicate anything.



"people that actually say something"? I saw an OP that was perhaps the most ridiculous cheap shot I've ever seen on DU, that somehow implied that Bernie Sanders had something to do with a noxious, racist photo taken by Chicago cops.

You want to talk about illusory bullshit, fine- there you go.

Primary season is ALWAYS a mess on DU, but the fact that certain people can't make the genuine parameters of the actual political field work for the narratives they're pushing, means they have to run around pretending a whole bunch of shit is there, when it isn't.

[pampango]

3. Throw s _ _ _ against the wall and see what sticks. Ain't it wonderful to be a Democrat in 2015.

You must not care about your candidate unless you are willing to throw you-know-what against the other's wall in the hope something sticks.

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. If I were a candidate this year , and was getting my ass-kicked over income and wealth disparity...

... with every indication that there is much more ass-kicking in store.... I would invoke the ghost of Audrey Hepburn herself if I thought it could even conceivably change the subject.

Fie on goodness. Fie!

[MohRokTah]

5. Link please.

I await your posting of the link to this mythical claim of Bernie Sanders being a racist.

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. 'a racial contest', not that he's racist

Here's the thread linking to a crappy blog that started it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6737025

and here's a DUer leaping on it enthusiastically: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026739087

[MohRokTah]

17. If that's what started this bullshit...

y'all Bernie supporters need to get some thick skin because there is nothing like what the OP describes in any of that.

[seabeyond]

19. of course its not what sander supporters are describing. last night they totally change conversation

to

duers calling sanders a racist.

no one thinks he is a racist. no one called him a racist. it is bullshit.

because sanders campaign speaks to middle class, upper middle class, white and men, they want to now yell that duers are saying, speaking fact is indeed calling sanders a racist

it is pure bullshit.

[MohRokTah]

21. Yep, pure unadulaterated bullshit.

The point made about Bernie Sanders is very appropriate. If he cannot speak to those issues that directly affect POC, he will not be capable of winning those constituencies.

That's so incredibly important in a national Democratic primary race where Bernie id dozens of points behind the front runner who HAS reached out directly to those constituencies.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Oh, look, you're taking part in the bullshit yourself

"If he cannot speak to those issues that directly" - that's bullshit. He can, and does, sometimes; the blogger just complained that he didn't talk about it enough in his kickoff speech. And then put up a load of unrelated info about racists, as if a kickoff speech must talk extensively about every problem the US or world has had in the past 10 years. Or even century and a half, if the painting is meant to be somehow relevant.

But no, you have to join in with the crowd with the Hillary avatars, so that you feel 'one of them', with a bit of BS about what Bernie "can't" do.

Please (and this applies to everyone on DU) - spend the next year assuming that everyone in the Democratic primary has the basic values, such as concern for minorities, that are the centre of the Democratic party. For all of them, their record indicates they do have the values. Do that, and you'll actually looks like someone arguing in good faith, and who can be worked with once the nominee is known, rather than someone who sees everyone apart from their chosen candidate an an enemy.

To quote Skinner:

"Ironically, it seems that many people took the name to mean "Underground fighting against Democrats." I was so naive. Back when I started this site I had no clue so many Democrats hated Democrats."

[bettyellen]

44. The "unrelated info about racists" was intended to give context why the issues are urgent to POC

And the accusations that this was calling Bernie racist were fucking appalling. Once again, POC being told to STFU or they'll be accused of paying some card goes completely unnoticed by too many.
We have people claiming POC are faking concerns. Anything to resist engaging with them on issues that are not about their own issues -mainly economic.
I'm embarrassed for these posters who are angry for having it called out that the outreach and optics were off. I feel sorry for Bernie that his supporters need to play ugly games and pretend anykbe called him racist. It's exactly the same bullshit as the MRAs whining men can never be right- childish hyperbole.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. If you find some accusations that Bernie was called a racist, then post in those threads

This thread, extremely clearly, talks about 'a racial contest'. And the blogger was clearly calling it a contest, by saying Sanders' speech wasn't good enough on the subject of race.

Again, if you find an instance of "POC being told to STFU", then post in reply to them.

An 1865 painting is 'context' that every campaign kickoff should have referred to? I'm not sure what the context a picture that appeared in the news 26thy May, 11:59pm - after Sanders' speech - gives, either. I think that shows the blogger was out to associate Sanders with the picture, rather than actually show what the context for his speech was.

"We have people claiming POC are faking concerns. Anything to resist engaging with them on issues that are not about their own issues -mainly economic. " - I don't understand this. Sanders' speech was mainly about economic issues and poverty. Are you saying that he talks about that to avoid talking about POC? Or that DUers do?

[bettyellen]

46. I'm not engaging with jerks who dismiss POC's concerns anymore- but they were a large

Presence in one of the threads we are discussing here.
If you don't understand the context of images that show the long history of exclusion of POC in a thread about excluding concerns of their current crisis situation (also illustrated) isn't clear enough for you, there's nothing I can say that will help.

Picking apart the new image because it's new!?! Wtf? Did you miss the powerful symbolism of an image of cops treating POC like animals? Or just dismiss over the date it was taken? Are you truly unaware of how emblematic that image is? It illustrates the current issue perfectly- and your dismissal over it on a technicality is bizarre and offensive. Wow. Don't worry your little head thinking about it, just work to dismiss it all. Awesome!

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. I'm not a particular Bernie supporter, and I can see the OP is absolutely right

There's a dumb, divisive and dishonest attempt to paint Bernie as 'not good enough on race', from the most extreme Hillary supporters. It's reminiscent of the PUMA days - these are people who want Hillary to win at any cost, rather than honestly. The 'immasmartypants' blogger is not someone to be trusted.

[MohRokTah]

24. Oh FFS

[NCTraveler]

25. That's what started all of this.

Wow. Talk about thin skin. I was under the impression it was much bigger with all of the outrage. Fuck, talk about manufactured outrage.

[seabeyond]

33. yes. i was told repeatedly i often call sanders a racist. sanders is not a racist. we all know he is

not a racist. no one has said he is a racist. yet... a handful insist, i have spent my time on du calling sander a racist.

that was the manufactured story told, last night. as i am getting in to bed, near midnight.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. "The good end"? Fuck me to tears but that's funny.

[Renew Deal]

7. Don't worry. Someone will come around saying she weighs less than a duck.

[FSogol]

13. She turned me into a newt!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I try but I am not always successful to ignore these internecine pissing matches.

I don't come here to attack my fellow Democrats. I come here to tout the ones I admire and lambaste Republicans.

[FSogol]

11. ^^^Exactly^^^

It should be possible for everyone to promote their preferred candidate without trying to tear down other Democratic Candidates. We have 3 good candidates running and however runs the best campaign, captures the majority of the party's delegates, and captures the mind of the American public will win. We do not win by running a scorched earth campaign to destroy and divide our party.

My 2 cents.

[Autumn]

10. It was the same way in 2007 and by much of the same people.

Now they have just picked another.

[AgingAmerican]

29. And, if you look through the archives

Many of them were attack Hillary back then.

[seabeyond]

12. sanders populist group started their own campaign on du last night, stating posters calling sanders

racist if anyone talked about his campaign positions or demographics. huge ass leap from discussing sanders campaign, to accusing people of calling him a racist

it was made up

last night

to discredit any discussion

it is bullshit

[AgingAmerican]

30. Could you link to the OP you are referring to?

Thanks!

[seabeyond]

34. something about... sanders is not a RACIST! probably on the front page.

[AgingAmerican]

36. I saw that OP

And saw nobody saying what you claim.

[seabeyond]

40. you did not see anyone stating, ... i say often sanders is a racist? then re read.

[BainsBane]

14. To my mind, it has less to do with the candidates

than with people who think they have a right to tell people of color what is good for them.

[AgingAmerican]

31. Do people have no right

...to opine on what may or may not benefit people of color?

[BainsBane]

32. You have the right to say anything you want under the First Amendment

But if you want to form productive relationships, you need to listen to their concerns rather than telling them what to do. So yeah, you have a right, and they have a right to draw conclusions based on what you say. I know I have.

[AgingAmerican]

37. Productive relationships are a two way street

'Sit down and shut up' is never 'productive'.

It takes two to tango.

[el_bryanto]

16. Well it's good I think. It lets some people feel superior to others

I enjoy feeling superior to Clinton supporters, because I know that Bernie will actually address Wall Street and Corporate Power. They feel superior to me because Clinton will deal with civil rights, concerns of the African American community, and the rights of Women. In this way we all get to feel superior.

I admit it's a hollow kind of superiority, but these days you have to take what you can get.

Bryant

[Starry Messenger]

18. Rerun season started early.

2007--it's back and better than ever!!

[NightWatcher]

20. Fans of two white people arguing over who supports black people more

Yes, it is quite silly.

[MineralMan]

22. No, it isn't. Both candidates have excellent civil rights

positions. We shouldn't be distracted from real issues between them.

[AgingAmerican]

27. Indeed

The problem some folks seem to have with Bernie is that he is right on the issues, thus there is no issue ammo to attack him with. So they attack him because his constituency is mostly white, as if that somehow makes him a racist.

I find it bizarre.

[seabeyond]

35. you made up an argument for a win! good job, lol. fun, huh?

[MineralMan]

42. Again, both candidates have excellent civil rights records.

This is a non-issue, completely. It's not worth discussing any further.

[Marr]

39. They sure as hell don't have equally unsullied campaign records. /nt

[MineralMan]

43. And that's completely irrelevant to what I said.

[AgingAmerican]

26. Yeah, I saw that OP

Pretty damn lame when folks have to stoop to skin color.

[Marr]

38. And get this-- it's the fans of the WASP candidate who has already run a racism-tinged campaign

who are crying racist while pointing at the liberal, Jewish candidate who has always argued the interests of the 99% and never even run a negative ad-- let alone a racist campaign.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. The 2008 script is at play

At an accelerated rate.

Silly season, now with more spleen (TM)