Been through some rough primary wars here. To me now, though, this one is different.

[madfloridian]

I guess life's perspectives change every few years. When there are losses of loved ones too close together it puts a different slant on life and events.

In 2004 my late hubby and I were way too passionate about a candidate. He was saying things we longed to hear about the direction we were heading in this country. None of us were prepared for the media takedown and the way our local and national parties perceived us when it was over. There was a condescension that was heartbreaking. We would never again feel part of the local Democratic community.

In 2008 we were less passionate, but we were hard workers locally for our candidate. We were a little more jaded, a little less enthusiastic. But we donated to our candidate, bought and distributed yard signs, and replaced them when they were stolen which was nearly all the time.

I am a strong supporter this time of Bernie Sanders. I think some Republicans locally are liking him also. They are the type of Republicans my family was, sensible and moderate. Still too many tea party types in my neighborhood, but a few are getting tired of the bigotry and ignorant statements.

It's different this time. It's so nice to see the support Bernie is getting from young people. I was a little surprised by that, but I guess I shouldn't have been. They are tired of trite and meaningless political talk. They sense it is different with Bernie Sanders.

The hard part now though is that our country is so much now under control of corporate money and power that it may not matter who wins. Huge amounts of money buy huge amounts of loyalty from politicians.

I'm for Bernie, but I will try to keep things positive.

I have fought hard like many other bloggers to make people aware of the great harm being done to education. It's hard to be hopeful that the privatization of schools can be stopped now after 7 years of steamrolling. So far Bernie Sanders seems pro public school, but he has not made it a major issue. His issue is the economic condition of our nation, and that's the biggie right now.

So I think this one is different, this primary. I believe I can sit back and read the vitriolic posts mostly without getting too upset.

I do think it matters who wins, but I have a fear it won't matter that much.

I think what really does matter so much right now is that there not be a wing of the party that puts those of us supporting Bernie in a different box so to speak with a different label...like we are not really actually part of it all.

A very important person here posted recently that they were not aware that so many Democrats hated the Democratic party. That really concerned me. That goes very deep into why there might be division. I have posted a lot about policies of this administration that bother me. But I don't hate the party, don't hate anyone in it. I want to support my candidate but I would like to still feel a part of it all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. One thing you posted

I have certainly noticed too.

It's different this time. It's so nice to see the support Bernie is getting from young people. I was a little surprised by that, but I guess I shouldn't have been. They are tired of trite and meaningless political talk. They sense it is different with Bernie Sanders.

What you said about the young. We saw the same in 2008.

Now I am way too jaded to support anybody, or give money. Nor it would be ethical. But what you said about the young I have noticed too.

My perspective has been changed from actually watching the sausage making close up. But it also died with the ACA fight, and dad and my brother passed. That also changes how you look at the world.

[madfloridian]

24. Yes.

Losses like that change people and their life views.

[marym625]

2. k&R

I agree. And a tone was set with the post you spoke about. A tone that was used as fodder and celebration for some, and a questioning of who is included as meaningful here for others. Then a new website with very limited invitations was sent

I think it is obvious what is thought. At this point in the primary, I find it very sad. Not for me, or us, but for what this used to mean v what it currently means

[madfloridian]

3. "questioning of who is included as meaningful"

Yes.

[marym625]

4. yep

Seems what was intended, though not what I originally thought. But, judging from what has happened since, I was originally wrong

Have a great night!

[MissDeeds]

22. I find it sad too

We are the party of inclusion, not exclusion. How can party unity be built when actions by important people here seek to divide us? It's troubling and will not serve the party or the candidate well.

I sincerely hope those in charge will reconsider.

[marym625]

36. Well said

But I am not going to hold my breath

[sabrina 1]

5. Nice post Mad. I agree this primary is different. I think it is because it seemed at first

that it would be boring, nothing new, nothing we could get excited about. But then Bernie Sanders decided to run and everything changed.

You are right about the young people being very enthusiastic about him. I am not surprised really because they are the most impacted by the last few decades of political failure. Failure in terms of the people. Success in terms of the most wealthy.

I think they are more informed than many of their elders and far less committed to party politics than their parents and grandparents were.

So they finally see a candidate who is speaking for them, to them, and it's only natural they would pay attention.

I know that even the best president ever can't change things alone. But if Bernie wins it would strike a blow to Corporate control of our elections and begin the process of turning things around since he would be the PEOPLE'S choice, the first really in my memory, due mainly to the fact he will not be funded by Mega Corporations. That would truly be a victory for the people.

[madfloridian]

6. Yes, you are right in this paragraph.

But if Bernie wins it would strike a blow to Corporate control of our elections and begin the process of turning things around since he would be the PEOPLE'S choice, the first really in my memory, due mainly to the fact he will not be funded by Mega Corporations. That would truly be a victory for the people.

It would begin a process, I agree.

[sabrina 1]

7. It would prove that WE are not just 'whining' about the corrosive effect of money

in politics, it would show we really mean it. And it teach a lesson to everyone, that you can't buy everything, no matter how much money you have.

I know your reasons for seeing this primary as different are a little different from mine. I was probably going to pay very little attention to the whole thing, until Bernie announced he was running.

Otherwise I agree with your points.

[madfloridian]

8. Actually agree about paying little attention...

until he entered the race. It gave me some hope.

[sabrina 1]

10. I guess that's what I was trying to say. I felt as you described in your OP

until Bernie entered the race. Now I do have some hope.

[L0oniX]

46. For me Bernie is the phoenix of the Democratic party rising from the corruption of corporate money.

Is that too dramatic?

[madfloridian]

47. .....

Not too dramatic at all.

[JDPriestly]

11. I, too, believe this is key:

"I know that even the best president ever can't change things alone. But if Bernie wins it would strike a blow to Corporate control of our elections and begin the process of turning things around since he would be the PEOPLE'S choice, the first really in my memory, due mainly to the fact he will not be funded by Mega Corporations. That would truly be a victory for the people."

Everybody claims to want to end the overwhelming influence of the corporations in our politics. Everyone claims to want a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United.

But everyone but Bernie takes money from the corporations for their campaigns.

And the corporations know it, and they know that when the candidates they support get into office, the candidates owe them and have to support at least some of the corporate agenda if they want to be re-elected.

If we are to reduce or end the current corporate domination of our government, we cannot continue to support candidates who rely on corporate money for their campaigns.

[sabrina 1]

13. Bernie is the test imo, of all of us who rail against CU and the destruction of our electoral system

by the bribery of our politicians, and it is bribery.

Up to now we had no choice, we were told that they had to take that money, because if they didn't, they couldn't win. No candidate had the guts to refuse it, until now.

One of the main reasons I am supporting him is because he has now given us the chance to put our votes where our 'whining' has been.

We'll see what happens.

[CrispyQ]

71. I also think he might appeal to some of the less fire breathing tea bagger types.

The types that are just fed up with govt, not so much religious nuts. The type who have played by the rules & were promised a safe retirement & now see that slipping away or gone. The types who are starting to figure out it was their authoritarian leaders who put them where they are, not the damned liberals.

Then here comes Bernie Sanders. He's not a democrat & he's a senior like them. He reminds them of better times, jokes that Eisenhower was a Communist, talks about increasing SS & Medicare, investing in our infrastructure & helping their grandkids have a future. I could see him pulling off some teabagger votes.

We need The People's Party - our own version of TPP - to fight back.

There is an unrest in the country as the rich get a bigger & bigger piece of the pie & the rest of us fight over crumbs. It can only go on so long before something gives. Bernie's message resonates across generational lines and party lines. If we had journalists, instead of corporate paid shills, he would have a chance.

[antigop]

9. your last paragraph says it all, mad...

Thanks for all of your posts.

I really have nothing more to add.

[ibegurpard]

12. Very interesting

You mirror my thoughts almost exactly.
I just laugh at half the crap I'm reading right now. It's the same old story it was in '04.

[aspirant]

14. Bernie reminds us

just how good it feels to refuse to sell your soul.

[Art_from_Ark]

15. ...and to hear someone speak passionately and sincerely

about things that are important to us.

[840high]

27. Amen.

[NYC_SKP]

67. Hear Hear!

[Enthusiast]

16. I don't hate the party. That's crazy talk.

I hate Third Way and what they have done to my party. And I hate what the DLC did to my party and the nation.

Adopting Republican policies then calling it pragmatic good policy will no longer work.

We have lived with the results.

The results can no longer be ignored.

[MissDeeds]

21. I agree completely

Well said, Enthusiast!

[marym625]

37. +1000

[hifiguy]

69. That is it in a nutshell.

[GoneFishin]

77. +1000. Exactly right.

[TM99]

17. I always value Mad what you have to say.

Thank you for this.

Here is a reply I just made in another thread but it sums up what I would say in agreement with you here. So it is easier to link that rewrite it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6744951

[madfloridian]

34. That was a very well thought out post. Thanks for the link.

I missed it before.

[gollygee]

18. Sanders winning would be pretty revolutionary

and we need something revolutionary. Things have been way too far to the right for a long time.

Obama didn't have a lot of support at this point 8 years ago so I know that Sanders has time to build momentum and get things going.

[truedelphi]

42. HRC's supporters are forgetting how it was back in 2007 -

Why, it was totally inevitable that Hillary would be her Party's choice.

And that is how I felt about that Primary then, until it looked like Barack Obama had a chance.

Suddenly the Democratic Party went from being just another facet of the One Big Money Party, and instead became an instrument for change.

Obama got elected because the old time-y Democrats who still remembered FDR and the really liberal policies of the 1950's 1950's, and 1960's. were willing to vote for him, as were the young idealists. And the RW that was fed up with McCain's One Big Money Party devotion -- those RW-ers were also willing to vote for Obama.

Bernie Sanders is going to replicate those same voting patterns.

[gollygee]

44. He won because of the votes of people of color and women

And Sanders has some work to do there. But I know he has plenty of time to reach out to those voters. He obviously cares about social justice issues. It's just a matter of communication.

[truedelphi]

89. Interesting article on how Obama fared within various demographic grooups

It was surprising to find out that he was the First Democratic Candidate in quite a while to get more than 38% of the white guy vote.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html

[sendero]

19. I think....

...... that it's not that folks "hate" the Democratic party, it's just that we realize that both parties play the same game. They say whatever they think you want to hear and then do as their masters tell them once elected. This is why if I am going to engage at all, I'm going to look at what a candidate has DONE, their words are pretty much meaningless.

Are Republicans meaner, dumber and generally more despicable than Democrats? Of course they are. But it always turns out the same no matter who is elected, the money men get what they want and everyone else be damned.

I honestly used to bristle at the cynicism with which some people viewed politics in this country. There are always going to be compromises, and anyone expecting anything different is delusional. But it's different now, we don't get a compromise, we get nothing. And it's been that way for a long time.

If one is not cynical about this entire situation they are simply not paying attention. IMHO.

[LuvNewcastle]

20. +++1000

[bunnies]

29. ^^ this ^^ nt

[madfloridian]

35. Yes, cynical is a good word to use.

I guess that's me now.

[hifiguy]

41. Blammo!

[GoneFishin]

78. Yep. +1000

[Autumn]

23. Until Bernie I wasn't going to bother with this election other than to cast a vote for whomever.

Bernie was a game changer. I donate monthly, I talk him up, this campaign I plan on working. If I get put in a box for supporting Bernie, I don't care. I'm in the best of company. I don't hate Democrats and I don't hate the Democratic party I don't think anyone here does but I think we all know where that offensive little shot was aimed at. Sure Bernie is the Independent Senator from Vermont, but he's more of a Democrat than many Democrats in the party. I'm going to keep on with Bernie.

[madfloridian]

33. You are right. Let's embrace that box they put us in.

Heck, we were called "fringe" by the party leaders when we supported Dean. I've sort of been in a "lefty" box ever since. Always voted Democrat, always voted.

[raouldukelives]

25. It was shocking to me to find so few Democrats stood for Democratic ideals as well.

So they aren't alone on that one. I too find it very concerning and I am certain that it is the root of the division.

[fredamae]

26. This may be a bit OT, But

I believe totally relevant to todays circumstance.

This was so true Then...and frighteningly More True Now. I re-listened to it...and..........well, "The Dirty E'ffn Hippies Were Right"!

[madfloridian]

31. ........

I think I mentioned that my daughter once said I had an inner hippie. So yes, the DFH were right.

[marym625]

38. damn straight we were

We still are

Love that!

[DirtyHippyBastard]

82. yep.

[JEB]

28. K&R

Bernie sanders, a cut above the ordinary.

[TBF]

30. The way I think of it Madfloridian

is that I didn't leave the party. The party left me. I grew up with parents who were union members & strong labor supporters across the board. But that was back in the 60s/70s. In the 80s I completed high school and college - and change was underway in this country. It has been massive change on many levels but the most glaring thing is the identity politics (and obfuscation by the press) as the gap between rich & poor grows wider than it has ever been in this country. There is little difference between the parties with the exception of democrats actually giving a damn about social issues. That's it.

We can elect Bernie Sanders and try to do this peacefully. That is what I personally would prefer to see happen. Or we can wait for the inevitable revolution which WILL come. People can only take so much before they realize they have nothing left to lose.

[PatrickforO]

49. You're right. I hope the change comes peacefully as well. No sane person wants

to live through a revolution. I don't.

[TBF]

52. Bernie is putting words to what so many people

are feeling. That's why people are starting to know his name. I think we have a chance.

[madfloridian]

32. To put it more bluntly:

I want to be able to fully support Bernie Sanders and still be considered part of the Democratic Party...not a "fringe" part as they called us in 2003. A real part of it.

I want to be able to post the harm done by the education reform policies the last few years...and yet still be considered a good Democrat.

We have always talked about the Democratic Party as having a "big tent" policy. Now we need to see that in action.

[marym625]

39. +1000

Exactly!

[TBF]

45. The problem is that party is gone. nt

[PatrickforO]

51. You know, I forgot in my long rant below to

address what you're saying about education. Privatizing our public school system is a horror. Our postsecondary system is awful too - it has lost nearly all vestiges of academic freedom by eliminating tenure - now our kids are taught by adjuncts who barely even make enough to survive and live in fear of losing what little income they have. In the meantime our children and grandchildren leave college saddled with unsustainable debt, which, thanks to Republican policies on bankruptcy, they CANNOT get out of, ever. So add sound PUBLIC education policies that separate church and state, severely limit privatization and are heavily subsidized at the postsecondary level. Also add that we need to put more egalitarian financing in place for public schools than we presently have; the poor inner city kids end up getting short shrift by the way schools are financed now.

And, we need to PAY for these changes by revising the corporate tax code so that the 30+ fortune 500 companies not currently paying ANY US income tax pay their fair share.

Last, on a personal note, we need to expand Social Security and Medicare; I've paid into these systems 'full boat' for 40 years, and I don't CARE what the fine print in the law says: They are MINE, I've PAID for them, and when the time comes I WILL get them.

So there it is. The finish of a progressive rant for Bernie!

[madfloridian]

55. What they have done to education in the name of "reform"...

is breaking my heart. It was really all just getting started when I retired. The stress on career teachers now is unbelievable.

[WillyT]

40. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[L0oniX]

43. V n/t

[PatrickforO]

48. As to hating the Democratic Party, I don't. I just hate what it has become.

I also hate what the Republican Party has become. A reading today of Ike's brilliant 1963 essay titled, "Why I'm a Republican" will make you sick when you look at the 21st century GOP. And somehow the Democrats got away from their ideals - the same ideals that took this country out of the great Depression, through the second world war and beyond into that period called the 'great prosperity' where we actually had policies that built up the middle class by ensuring that wealth was distributed more evenly; workers were protected by strong unions, and people could actually make ends meet.

Somehow, those ideals became objects of ridicule. The idea of caring for each other became 'everybody needs to pull himself up by his bootstraps' and 'why should I pay for her mistakes?' The Democratic ideals were attacked on 1,000 different fronts by splinter crazies and big corporatists.

The encouraging thing is that many thought leaders are now seeing that the brutal neoliberal capitalist model that seems to have taken over the world is unsustainable. These blind capitalists are literally destroying our world to make a profit, and the current Wall Street philosophy of the primacy of shareholders has driven workers almost to economic ruin and so hurt our environment - the very world on which we live and depend - that it may be decades or even centuries before it can recover.

The thing that made me the SICKEST of all, was when Democratic candidates throughout the nation distanced themselves from Obama. When Alison Lundergan Grimes would NOT answer the question of whether she voted for Obama, I almost puked! No wonder she lost. I got a few surveys after our party suffered the Great Pasting in 2014, and what I said was that people did not vote Democratic because it was very difficult to know what they stood for, if anything, because they waffled so much. Own your positions, I told them! Health care IS a basic right. We need to get our troops OUT of all these middle eastern places and STOP the drone attacks! This TPP is yet another NAFTA - it will cost America hundreds of thousands of jobs and compromise our environment and worse, it will subordinate the will of the American people to the will of big multinational corporations.

Yes, there's lots wrong. That's why I'm for Bernie Sanders, but I'm not naïve enough to think he can make huge changes unless we ALSO elect a bunch of real progressives to Congress. The truth is that it's going to take years to bring America back, and it may not happen. Fortunately, much is being done at the local level: slow money, slow food, micro-lending and employee owned enterprises.

Still, it seems as of our species is in a race for its very survival - and there can be only one winner - the progressives, who actually want to set up a society that promotes social, economic and environmental justice. The problem is if we lose this race, then EVERYONE on the whole planet will lose, too.

[TBF]

53. ^ This could stand alone as an OP.

You're putting words to what many of us feel.

[Ford_Prefect]

50. I believe the quote goes: ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.

One might paraphrase it but the point seems made to me. I have been a Democrat all my life. I have watched the party trim its sails several times but never so severely as now.

The current party leadership wants to win at any cost. It has no soul. That may appear realistic from a certain point of view regarding how politics functions. I disagree.

I come from the party of the New Deal and the Great Society. I was raised to believe we cannot go forward unless we all go together. I have seen it demonstrated far too many times to ever doubt.

Whatever is before us in the election has yet to be defined. If we allow it to become one more choice of the lesser of evils all we will get will be that: evil. I say that we must insist this election becomes about the issues we were promised: Justice, Peace, economic sanity, a world we may all still inhabit (I desperately hope).

This is not some wishful thinking. I have seen all of this work and work very well. I am not expecting a socialist utopia. I am not a socialist. I do expect responsible adults to stand up and do what must be done. I have seen it work time and time again even though "conventional wisdom" deemed it was impossible. Impossible is the word they use when they do not wish to see everyone vote, or learn, or own a reasonable future. It is a term they use to define the line between them and the rest of us. It marks the border of privilege and the boundaries of hope.

If we allow cynicism to become our watchword then "they" have already won. We will either get a president who won't admit how bad things are getting, or one who will endeavor to make them far worse.

When they coined the term "the customer is always right" they meant the customer's needs must always be met. We must make those needs heard and respected or there will not only be no customers left there will be no firm either.

FDR once said if he didn't succeed as president he would be the last American President. We face no less a challenge now. If we do not elect a genuine Democrat to the office there will not be another one.

[KoKo]

76. ...!

[Jackpine Radical]

54. It won't matter at all

UNLESS we mobilize behind Bernie once he's in the White House, which means--among other things--giving him a progressive Congress to work with, but far beyond that, begin working on our neighbors to effect a sea-change in the national system of values and priorities.

THAT is what is meant by revolution.

[jopacaco]

56. Agree as usual

I always read your posts because you often write about education and the horror of what is happening to our public schools. As a public school teacher, I thank you.
I was raised in a Democratic pro-union family. I have been a liberal Democrat all of my life. Like others on this thread, I feel that I haven't changed, the party has. If I hated the party, I would unenroll. I am tired of this third way crap and corporate Democrats. For the first time in many years, I am excited by a candidate who seems to have a similar outlook. Let's not coronate anyone before the primaries have even begun.

[awoke_in_2003]

57. I was a moderator...

during the 08 primaries. GD/P then made a shit fight in the primate cages look like a fun time. I hope it doesn't get that bad this time around, but either way I will try real hard not engage in shit flinging. I am a Bernie guy, but a Madam President will beat anything the republicans have to offer. There is a thing or two I don't care for with Hillary, but for the most part she is a good choice (no one is perfect) and will get my vote should she win the primary. We need to save the attacks for the idiots with Rs after their name.

On edit: Madam President- it kind of has a nice ring to it. I never thought this country would have an African American president, and I remember the pride I felt that November day in 08.

[madfloridian]

58. Were you here in 2003/2004?

I think it was way worse than 2008. It was so very ugly. 08 was bad, 04 much worse IMO

[awoke_in_2003]

59. I was lurking at the time...

and no where near as regular as I am now. All I remember is I wanted Dim Son out of office.

[madfloridian]

60. lol would you believe I just noticed your user name?

Right after I asked you if you were here then. Ooops. Sorry about that.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. I think I officially joined in 05

but I stumbled onto this site in 03. During the build up to the Iraq war I really started questioning everything I thought I believed. I realized I wasn't really a republican. In fact, I am pretty far to the left once I started really thinking and educating myself.

[madfloridian]

63. I think the Iraq invasion was a turning point for many ....

[awoke_in_2003]

64. Yep, here is my latest results

https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass?ec=-8.13&soc=-8.26

[totodeinhere]

61. Very well said. Thank you.

n/t

[Thespian2]

65. K & R !!!!

Thank you, madfloridian...

I can't think of a single thing I could add to this insightful post...I totally agree with you...

[SoapBox]

66. That's a 10 star post!

Wonderful.

I will say, I don't "hate" the party but I'm not wild about (what does seem to me) nonexistent leadership...I want some real, enthusiast leadership, not Debbie-Downer-Depressing emails!

I thought O'Malley might be interesting but already seems late to come on and the other guy (?) that just jumped in, who knows. Bernie, keeps talking issues...relevant issues...issues that really matter.

And THAT seems exciting.

[carolinayellowdog]

68. one major difference is having an Independent run for the Democratic nomination

which is an implicit reproach of what the Democratic Party has become-- no one willing to stand up for the values that we thought we all shared more or less back in 2004 and 2008. As for regretting one's past emotional involvement and investment-- I voted for Edwards in the 2004 primary and would have in 2008 if he hadn't dropped out just in time for me to switch to Obama. I shudder to think what it would have been like for the Edwards sex scandal to hit a sitting president! Plus I now consider it a mistake to have forgiven and overlooked his IWR vote-- wish I'd stuck with Dean in 2004 as he was my original favorite before the media destroyed him with bullshit.

I daresay most DUers who now support Sanders were Obama primary voters in 2008, and of course voted for Obama in the 2008 and 2012 general elections. And while many have expressed personal disappointment with Obama as an individual, my own disappointment has been more with the way the Democratic Party squandered its mandate and betrayed its base. Nominating Clinton would only reward "centrist" pandering to the 1% and further marginalize the progressive base. It remains to be seen what O'Malley will have to say to and about the Democratic Party; I'm open to persuasion.

But if the Party falls into line and accepts Her Inevitability, and O'Malley is no more than a blip, you can count on its credibility among Progressives to further erode and the appeal of an Independent progressive candidate to increase.

[madfloridian]

70. This says it all in my mind...

"squandered its mandate and betrayed its base."

[Mnpaul]

72. Bernie is Independent

Independent from all that is wrong with the party today. He will go along with the good stuff and walk away from the bad. We need more like him.

[davidpdx]

86. I think you are right about most of the Sanders supporters being early Obama supporters

It is sad to see some of those who were early Obama supporters go the other way and fall in line.

[Avalux]

73. Your post really resonates with me.

Bernie represents a different way for me. I can't much bear the thought of a Clinton/Bush campaign. I know I'm making assumptions in saying that, but I really think it would be horrible for this country. No matter who wins.

[KoKo]

74. Thank You..."MF"

My reaction is close to yours in this, what you say and the rest of your post:

I think what really does matter so much right now is that there not be a wing of the party that puts those of us supporting Bernie in a different box so to speak with a different label...like we are not really actually part of it all.

A very important person here posted recently that they were not aware that so many Democrats hated the Democratic party. That really concerned me. That goes very deep into why there might be division. I have posted a lot about policies of this administration that bother me. But I don't hate the party, don't hate anyone in it. I want to support my candidate but I would like to still feel a part of it all.
120

I think "that important person" somehow didn't understand what posters were saying: "They didn't hate the Dem Party...but, joined this site because they thought "Selection 2000" was such a horrific event in their lives that when they saw the "Democratic Underground Banner" with a link to this NEW SITE: "Democratic Underground" they though there was HOPE! Someone CARED.

And that's how I started here in 2001 and I was not a Hater of the Dem Party, nor were others who signed up and were not Trolls.

We were horrified over that 2000 Selection and were so glad to have a place to come and talk about it and organize so that it would never happened again.

I'm surprised that the "Important Persons" didn't understand that...after all these years. Maybe someday they will understand the contribution to Dem Reform that they gave voice to was not "Hate of the Democratic Party," but LOVE of the DEM PARTY that we began to see with "Stolen Election 2000" was in Need of Reform.

I'm happy to have been here all these years and will always be grateful that the Founders of DU gave us the opportunity to Connect and Do good work for that REFORM of DEM PARTY.

Even if their Original Enterprise turned out not to be what they had wanted....someday..in the future, hopefully they will see that what they inadvertently started may have done some very great good for our Democratic Party that we share.

I hope so, anyway.

[madfloridian]

75. As usual KoKo

A big

[pnwmom]

79. DU attracts a wide range of progressives, including some who do hate the Democratic party

and would rather a non-Democrat win.

But Bernie isn't that kind of progressive and neither are most of his supporters.

[neverforget]

80. Great post madfloridian! You expressed a lot of how I feel.

Thanks!

[Caspian Morgan]

81. To me it's shaping up just the way it was with Howard Dean

We had great enthusiasm, a viable candidate with great ideas, the hard left did all the heavy lifting and then suddenly there was a huge sell out and we Dean supporter were tossed aside. I see the same thing happening. I would vote for Bernie, obviously, if only h could get by the corporate dems.

[madfloridian]

90. Bottom line, we were considered "fringe" then. Now it's like we are overstepping....

some imaginary line. We are often referred to and thought of as "they" by party, not "we".

[russspeakeasy]

83. Thanks, mad. Well said.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

84. Actually, it was Democrats hating Democrats....

It's not hate for the Party. It's a battle trying to control the direction of the Party.

After the defeat of Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis the right-wingers in the Beltway proclaimed the country had swung to the Right. The Democrats actually recruited conservatives as consultants to teach them how to win elections in "the new America".

Keep in mind, it wasn't the country that had swung to the Right, it was the media.

Liberals had to tolerate EIGHT YEARS of lecturing by the DLC about how we had to sit down and shut up. Our ideas were considered obsolete and as proof these guys pointed to how much money they were able to raise from Wall Street.

[silvershadow]

85. I have been saying for many months that many of my Republican "friends" on FB are quite

supportive of my Bernie posts. I am guessing he will, in fact, be our next President- barring, of course, untold shenanigans.

[davidpdx]

87. Ok, without getting too teary this is the best post I've seen this week

maybe even this month. I remember your posts from back in 2008 when I was a newbie (I had lurked before that for awhile). It is very interesting to get your perspective on things, maybe more so because I agree with you. I haven't decided for sure, but lean toward Sanders.

The comment you made toward the end about someone asking another person why so many people hate the Democratic Party stood out because I have seen those types of posts and they are ugly. You are right about there being a deep division within the party and that is not a good sign.

I personally feel disengaged at this point compared to 2007. The choice then was easy for me. Being overseas doesn't help (I was home during the summer of 2007 and did quite a bit then, which felt great). In a way I feel hopeless because the field is not as diverse this time and it seems like the race is leaning hard one way. Of course in 2008 we did it against the odds, but I question whether lightening will strike twice.

The positive nature of the entire thread is amazing and I hope it stays that way.

[joshcryer]

88. This time is different...

...in that for the first time in a decade I've begun using ignore here.