I would like to clear something up about that flag.

[abakan]

Last edited Thu Jul 2, 2015, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

This is the first flag of the confederacy

This is the second flag of the confederacy

This is the third flag of the confederacy

And this is the battle flag of the confederacy

I am making NO excuses for these symbols. I am trying to show some who don't know, the battle flag, is not the flag of the confederacy. All these symbols are distasteful to me, but that does not preclude me from studying the subject.

[MineralMan]

1. They're all flags of treason, slavery and racism.

All five of them. So, it doesn't really matter which one is flown. They all symbolize the same ugliness. They all represent the side that lost in a stupid war that cost hundreds of thousands their lives.

They all should be relegated to dusty rooms in museums nobody visits.

[uppityperson]

2. [phone]. Well put.

[daleanime]

7. Amen.....

[abakan]

10. I was making no excuses for any of them.

From some of the conversations Iv'e seen, it looked like some were not aware the battle flag was not the Confederate flag. I believe what they stand for is reprehensible, but that does not keep me from being a student of the civil war.

I lived in the heart of the civil war, in a civil war battle field for many years. I lived in Spotsylvania in the Wilderness battle field. I drove past Chancellorsville, Spotsylvania Courthouse, and Fredericksburg, every day on my way to work in Quantico.
I could not help but absorb the history, that does in no way means I agree with anything that happened there.

[MineralMan]

14. You made no comment at all, so the meaning of your post

was unclear. It's always a good idea to say a little about your subject and your opinion of it on DU. People often use "information" about confederate banners as a way of deflecting criticism. They pretend that there is a difference between the symbolism of one flag and another. The truth is that there is no difference. They all are symbolic of the same things.

Apologists for the Civil War often attempt to defuse arguments against what that war stood for in a vain attempt to destroy someone's argument. That's why it's important to make some sort of statement, rather than just put up a series of images. We've seen those flags before, but usually from people who are trying to tell us we're wrong about the Confederate flag.

All of them are symbols of something, to be sure. They are symbolic of slavery, racism, and an attempt to split this nation along slaveholding and racist lines. All five are ugly and deserving of nothing but contempt.

[abakan]

16. Apparently when I post something.

It is wrong. My intent was to educate, not to praise or make any excuses for the symbols. Next time I have an impulse to post something here, I will think again.

[MineralMan]

18. You needn't think again. When you post, though,

it's always useful to add something about your opinion of what you are posting, unless that is obvious from the material you post.

[randys1]

27. Not necessary, you should post. I have an interest in that war as well as I believe

my family was involved but I cant remember how.

The flag, any iteration of it, represents ONLY hate and racism and death.

NO matter what anybody claims it means to them, that is what it actually means.

I didnt see you making any point other than the one you made and as long as you agree with my comment

I am good...if you disagree with me on anything you are a traitor and a moron





just kidding...that was a joke...

[abakan]

30. Well I dodged a bullet there...

I do agree with you, so therefore I am safe.

I don't understand people who look at something and automatically assume the worst of the poster.
If there is a question, they should ask, before they go off on their tangents. Thanks

[dixiegrrrrl]

39. Your post is fine just as it is.

You posted facts, with pictures.

Too many people too often have called the Stars and Bars flag the Confederate flag as if there were only one,
Information is always handy to have.

There is a tendency on DU for either/or, all or nothing thinking.
Your post might be educational, as you intended.

[RKP5637]

29. Agree so much MM. To me they have always represented ugliness no matter how

they are rationalized. Yes, a piece of history that should not be forgotten IMO, but placed in museums so future generations understand the ugliness of it all and do not repeat the same mistakes.

Eons ago when I went to college in a border southern university, I was stunned when the guys next door had a flag covering the wall. My reaction was WTF, that shit is over, why the F do you want to symbolize that hatred. Some have such ugliness and hatred in their psyche that often it's unshakable.

The good part is current and future generations are seeing the ugliness of what that flag represents. And IMO during the Obama presidency that ugliness has grown and that flag has gotten far uglier.

[trof]

41. Those who live in glass houses...

This is the first flag that flew over our nation that condoned and profited from slavery.

1776


And through many and various permutations to as late as 1859


http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagfact.html

Let he who is without sin...

"But I wasn't even alive then,"
"Neither was I."


Peace and Love
trof

[underpants]

3. No wonder they lost the war

They spent all their time sitting around doing all that gay sewing

[cwydro]

37. "Gay sewing"?

Huh?

[underpants]

38. It was a joke

Irony putting the Confederate flag together with one of the other topics of late - same sex marriage

[Rex]

4. What is it you are trying to clear up? You didn't tell us.

Yes. Those are flags of the Confederacy.

[malaise]

11. Ha

[Rex]

24. Seriously, if someone wants to 'clear up something' without giving a premise

dunno...don't read minds.

[abakan]

33. I don't know either...

I expect people to think for themselves. I didn't know I would have to draw a picture. Oh wait! I did show pictures. and identified all of them. Clearly I was showing the real flags of the confederacy and not just the battle flag. Real hard to understand I guess.

[Rex]

34. So your point was to show all those flags are different from each other, great.

Was that so hard? Why not just tell people your premise instead of making them guess?

[abakan]

12. Please read my reply...Thanks

[HassleCat]

5. Many people don't know

Most of the people who wave the rebel battle fag call it the "stars and bars," which is actually the name given to the first design you show. The second design, incorporating the battle flag, was usually called "the stainless banner," and the third design was "the blood stained banner." The battle flag was revived in the early 1960s as a symbol of defiance to court ordered school integration. Basically, when you fly the battle flag from your pickup truck, you are saying, "My kids shouldn't have to attend school with the little darkies." I say, "Up to you, Johnny Reb. If that's the message you want to send, go for it."

[abakan]

22. You are a student too, I see.

Thanks for your lesson.

[Oilwellian]

36. LOL...nice try, but no cigar

It's totally absurd to think Dylan Roof posed with the confederate battle flag because it represents a pro segregation stance. You also forgot to mention WHO resurrected the confederate battle flag in response to the civil rights movement during the '60's, and NOT just for segregation as you suggest.

But hey, who am I to pop your bubble. LOL

[HassleCat]

45. Larger point

You're missing the point that even most members of the South Carolina legislature now admit. The flag has been "misappropriated" to quote one of the legislators. It has been promoted, at various times, as a symbol of segregation, a banner of general defiance to authority, a signal that a good ole boy is riding in this pickup, and so on and so forth. In the particular case of Dylan Roof, no he probably wasn't even aware that the federal government forced school desegregation in southern states. But it's clear he hated black people, and blamed them for various social problems, so that's what the flag meant to him.

[TexasProgresive]

6. Your point?

Regardless of what those flags stood for in the minds of people long ago, what they stand for now, especially the Stars and Bars, is a symbol of hatred. There is no defending it as it has become the emblem of the KKK, racists and thugs. TAKE IT DOWN, NOW!

[abakan]

13. I am not defending the flags!

Read my reply above.

[Xyzse]

8. Thanks! It is always good to know something about what I go against.

It is always awesome when you can talk circles and know more about the subject that you oppose in comparison to those that support it.

That is how I went about Religion. I like knowing more about the bible than some so called Bible Thumpers.

It is a great day when I can shut them up.

[abakan]

20. Thank you

Last edited Thu Jul 2, 2015, 03:10 PM - Edit history (2)

At least someone understood my intent. Thank you for your open mind and ability to not automatically jump to the conclusion my post was anything other than an attempt to enlighten.

[Rex]

23. I just asked what your OP is about, didn't know you expected us to read your mind.

Overreact much?

[abakan]

35. not really.

I done with this. FYI you couldn't read my mind if you wanted to, it's password protected.

[kydo]

9. Yeah I have to drive by the first one just about every day

Funny thing though, this person has two flags up; A Jewish Flag and the stars and bars traitor slave owner flag (the first one on your list). The lady lives right next to a funeral home. Crazy, a racist Jew. During the last Prez elections she had no fewer then 5 huge ass romney signs. Of course they covered her flags so a few days later she moved the flags to in front of the signs. Crazy people.

No really, right next to this nut job that funeral home, which is next to a gun store, tattoo pallor, karate school, a herb/pill store and a bar. Crazy people I tell you. But then again I am in Central FL that probably explains it.

[Uncle Joe]

17. Many of the same people that support or fly the Confederate Battle Flag also

unequivocally support Israel.

Here is another contradictory image, different versions of the Confederate Battle Flag flown alongside the U.S. Flag.

[Journeyman]

28. The Confederate Secretary of War was Jewish -- Judah P. Benjamin . . .

A wealthy slave owner, and first Jew elected to the US Senate, Benjamin resigned when South Carolina seceded. He would go on to become, first, the Attorney General, then Secretary of War, and finally Secretary of State for the Confederacy. His most far-reaching decision of the war was to advocate that slaves be freed and armed to fight for the Confederacy.

The world is sometimes far more complicated than our easy classifications permit.

[MohRokTah]

15. I prefer the last OFFICIAL flag of the confederacy.

[TexasProgresive]

25. Since we're on the subject of flags

The white flag does not always mean surrender it is asking for parley. That might lead to surrender but not always.

This is the true image of surrender:

[abakan]

31. Thank you. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

19. Poll: Majority Sees Confederate Flag as Southern Pride Symbol, Not Racist

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/

57% Southern pride

33% Racist

DU is something of a bubble.

[MohRokTah]

32. .

[Hoyt]

21. They all suck, and are used by yahoos to show they are part of the racist culture.

[spanone]

26. YEP, and they all stand for slavery, racism and all the shit.

[former9thward]

40. Jimmy Carter at Confederate Memorial in Brazil.

After the war 20,000 Confederates (along with some free slaves) went to Brazil. That area of Brazil is called Americana and now has about 200,000 descendants of the original Confederates. In honor of Carter's visit the city added a Confederate flag to its coat of arms.

[abakan]

42. Now that's disappointing...

But whether right or wrong, we must recognize we as a people have been evolving our attitudes on many issues. We can't condemn history with 2015 eyes because that was a completely different world. We may not like it but it was acceptable at the time.

[former9thward]

43. Flag or no flag I just thought it was interesting

that a Confederate colony exists in present day Brazil. One influential enough that a governor of GA went to visit it.

[Art_from_Ark]

44. Why is it disappointing?

It sounds like Confederados became model citizens in Brazil. And one of Rosalynn Carter's great uncles was a Confederado who is buried in Brazil. So Carter's visit to Brazil was nothing to be embarrassed about-- certainly nothing like Reagan's visit to Bitburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados

[ladyVet]

46. It may not be "the" flag of the Confederacy, but it is "a" flag.

As you show, there were many flags associated with the Confederate States, and that was but one.

I find them distasteful when used in a hateful way (unlike, say, at a museum when used as a historical display), but I will defend a private citizen's right to own them and fly them. Governments, though, not at all.