The Black "We" and the White "I"

[sheshe2]

John Metta had given up talking to white people about racism. But after the shootings in Charleston, he gave this "congregational reflection" to a white church audience. It is one of the most profound explanations of why white liberals have such a hard time talking about race. I'll give you a few excerpts here. But please, go read the whole thing.

snip

That leads to a powerful summary of the problem:

Living every single day with institutionalized racism and then having to argue its very existence, is tiring, and saddening, and angering. Yet if we express any emotion while talking about it, we’re tone policed, told we're being angry. In fact, a key element in any racial argument in America is the Angry Black person, and racial discussions shut down when that person speaks. The Angry Black person invalidates any arguments about racism because they are “just being overly sensitive,” or “too emotional,” or, playing the race card...

But here is the irony, here’s the thing that all the angry Black people know, and no calmly debating White people want to admit: The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings.

Ask any Black person and they'll tell you the same thing. The reality of thousands of innocent people raped, shot, imprisoned, and systematically disenfranchised are less important than the suggestion that a single White person might be complicit in a racist system.

Read More: http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-black-we-and-white-i.html

Read John Metta's powerful sermon in full at the link.

[Nye Bevan]

1. Nothing wrong with being "angry" about racist cops,

racism in the criminal justice system, and attempts to disenfranchise minority voters. I suspect that most DUers, regardless of race, are angry about these things.

[geek tragedy]

5. but some white people get more pissed off about the phrase "white privilege" or

black folks being rude to Bernie Sanders than they are at systemic racism.

They take it more personally.

[Nye Bevan]

6. which is probably why it's a good idea to follow President Obama's example and avoid the term.

Not being shot by a cop should not be considered a "privilege" anyway, it should be standard operating procedure.

[geek tragedy]

7. but isn't a cruel irony that the first black president has to watch his words and watch

his tone so that white people don't have an irrational backlash?

[Nye Bevan]

10. In this case, I don't think so.

Again, I don't think that things like not being shot by cops and not being followed around in stores should be framed as "privileges", and I suspect that President Obama has the same view. So even if it did not annoy people I don't think there would be a benefit to using the term.

[heaven05]

19. white privlege is a state of mind and fact

deny all you want, doesn't change a thing. I suspect you don't know shit about what President Obama thinks. Period. There is great benefit in pointing it out in american culture, that the only reason white people keep the privilege to not be shot while unarmed or "folllowed around the store" while POC are. We were just talking about this very subject in a laugh fest I was at this afternoon outside the coop as we were commiserating about current racial affairs and white racist thought in america.

[Nye Bevan]

20. So do you think President Obama has made a mistake by never uttering the phrase "white privilege"

even once, during all of his speeches about race in his many years of being President?

Personally I think his speeches about race are pitch perfect. But of course you are free to believe that he is wrong.

[heaven05]

23. I know how free

I am to say, think and speak my mind. I don't need you to remind me of that. Thank you. I repeat was what prior post said. He may have never "uttered" the no no words but you can't, with any certainty, in any respect, know what my President is thinking. Thinking and saying are two different things. Didn't you know that? Gosh..... I see it here everyday from the privileged, except sometimes they slip up and say what they are truly thinking. Personally I agree, my President is as perfect a POTUS as we have had in 40+ years. Thank you very much for at least acknowledging that FACT.

[Nye Bevan]

24. You're welcome! (nt)

[Scootaloo]

29. I cringe when he walked back calling the arrest of a black professor at his own home "stupid'

'Cause the Republicans - and no shortage of Democrats, if I remember - went fuckface apoplectic at the idea of calling cops a name.

[geek tragedy]

31. not only a cop, but a white cop. black president criticizing a white cop

for violating the rights of a black man?

many white people have a word for that--"divisive"

[noiretextatique]

38. no shit. some white people believe discussing

even obvious in-your-face racism is 'divisive.' this sermon is right on, imho. any discussion of race has to be measured so as not to offend. it's bullshit. white people should know the history and current reality just like everyone else does. it the height of privilege to start pearl-clutching and parsing definitions every time the discussion comes up.

[artislife]

13. ^^^This.....nt

[ismnotwasm]

2. Incredibly powerful

Here’s what I want to say to you: Racism is so deeply embedded in this country not because of the racist right-wing radicals who practice it openly, it exists because of the silence and hurt feelings of liberal America.

If I was the praying type, and you you know what? Maybe even, because I'm not, I pray "Let me not be silent in the face of uncomfortable truths"

[sheshe2]

3. "Let me not be silent in the face of uncomfortable truths"

I couldn't agree with you more, ism.

[calimary]

4. GREAT point.

More inconvenient truths.

[img][/img]

[sheshe2]

12. Okay

I am crying here, calimary.

An inconvenient wedge issue.

[calimary]

21. Well, the only point I was trying to make, in how-ever clumsy a fashion, was that

one of the main elements of the BLM protest at Netroots, and it was mostly women who were protesting, was specifically because so many symptoms of racism in this country seem to be glossed over by the politicians who either are quick to blurt - "ALL lives matter." Well, DUH! But not ALL lives are afflicted by an epidemic of police brutality, even murderous barbarism, toward individuals in the community, the way too many Black Lives are. Whites, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans - don't go through this like Blacks do. And mothers of other colors don't cry like Black mothers do. I'm a mom, this has all touched me really profoundly. That photo is just one of MANY photos that make me cry. I believe one of the women in the photograph, the one comforting the weeping woman in the foreground, is Sandra Bland's sister.

For me, that's how I can come the closest, as a white woman, to understanding at least that aspect of the BlackLivesMatter movement. It's a stumbling attempt to empathize as much as I can while not walking in the same skin. It's the closest I get to being able to "grok" the pain and frustration and agony behind the BlackLivesMatter movement.

From Wikipedia -
Grok /ˈɡrɒk/ is a word coined by Robert A. Heinlein for his 1961 science-fiction novel, Stranger in a Strange Land, where it is defined as follows:
Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man. To grok something is to understand it so intimately that it's almost as though you ate it.

And shit - I know I'm not telling any of who's left of DU's Black community anything they don't already too-painfully know. All I'm doing is trying to find a way to say I think perhaps I understand, even if only in a small way.



And, um, I'm sorry about the size of the photo. Didn't mean to be overbearing with it. I don't know how to make it smaller - kind of a technical idiot here.

[sheshe2]

22. Actually, the size of the photo is right.

It is the size of their grief.

You said everything right, calimary.

[ismnotwasm]

15. ...

[freshwest]

8. Going to read the link now. Thanks for posting. n/t

[sheshe2]

11. It's amazing freshwest.

Thank you.

[Solly Mack]

9. K&R

[brer cat]

14. K&R

[chenildieu]

16. When I try to understand the POC viewpoint

I fall back on my own experiences as a woman. I imagine how I would feel if, instead of BLM charging into Netroots, it had been angry loud proud feminists demanding accountability for the murders, rapes, at-home beatings, fear, intimidation, ridicule, sexual harassment, and just plain disrespect females face every day.

What I come up with is: while I might, among feminist friends, criticize an angry disruptive demonstration as being nonproductive or making the cause look bad, I could never tolerate a male (other than a committed, proven women's activist) criticize a feminist protest. After a lifetime of being threatened, abducted, abused, and repeatedly "put in my place" by many of the non-females in my life, when I hear any male non-feminist criticize feminism I just wanna scream "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HOW WE FEEL AND WHAT WE SUFFER? How dare you toss out your opinion about what we "should" do or how we "should" behave We are getting targeted for violence and humiliation every effing day - and you have no goddamn idea what it's like, so don't wag your goddamn finger at us!"

And it's funny, because that is exactly what a lot of DU black posters are saying when Bernie supporters say - probably with fine intentions - "I wish BLM had done things differently at Netroots."

So what's the moral? People in a downtrodden group don't want to hear any "Well, but, you people should... Blah blah blah" stuff from an outsider -- most especially from an outsider who comes from the dominant group (the group that has always sailed above the oppressed group's suffering enjoying their total safety without a second thought, and whose comrades have happily inflicted said suffering on the oppressed group).

I dunno, maybe if we all kept in mind that some groups bear open wounds, things would go more smoothly and respectfully? I am actually not a big fan of 'tiptoeing political correctness,' especially when it comes to ideologies and religions - But when it comes to understandable human emotions, it is pretty natural that people who have spent their lives being kicked around by People Like Me, don't want to hear me criticize their way of looking at things.

(Which, I admit, does make dialogue hard. I have no easy answers. Just tossing out my thoughts.)

[YoungDemCA]

33. What a great response.

Seriously. This is why I come back to DU: for posts like yours.

Thank you.

[WillyT]

17. K & R !!!

[heaven05]

18. profound and so very, very true

have to deal with this very subject here all the time and in the general public speaking on race and white privilege and their need to dominate and 'control' POC in america, which I lambast every chance I get. And after what the tone police did to Bravenak, I have a new one to lambast in public now. Oh people are going to hear about the tone police here and I will be teaching how to recognize them to the young people I mentor. Everyone I know laughs at the race card thing....most just thinks it an extremely obvious attempt to marginalize racial problems and it just comes off being stupid and sounding VERY ignorant from the clown saying it. God we laugh at those type of people..but clowns are supposed to be laughed, I love it!!!!!!!! Thanks for this one.

[awoke_in_2003]

25. What happened to Bravenak? nt

[heaven05]

26. got some OP's and responses hidden in quick succession

Last edited Fri Jul 24, 2015, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)

for daring to ask questions of the priorities of BS and his supporters here. They also didn't like her posts on other forums concerning BS, BS supporters and #Black Lives Matter. They really went over board to the point an appreciation thread had to be started to counter the anti-Bravenak crowd of BS supporters here.

[awoke_in_2003]

32. Assholes

Bravenak is one of the best of DU.

[heaven05]

35. yep

no doubt.....

[noiretextatique]

39. frankly, i don't get the problem with sanders

however i do understand the problem with some of his supporters. i am a black woman, and bernie sanders speaks to me. i think it is complete bullshit to claim that he does not speak to black people, if the assertion that clinton somehow does better or more or whatever. but perhaps i am missing something.

[MADem]

27. It is shocking to find that kind of push-back here, though.

It rips a scab off a small subset of people who claim to identify as liberals, certainly.

That "liberal" label kind of flakes off when their ox is being gored.

I've tried to explain the whole "It's not about YOUR feelings" thing, and gotten "You're calling me a racist" back for my trouble.

I will say my eyes are open wide now.

[sufrommich]

28. "The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings"

As evidenced by some right here in this thread.

[ismnotwasm]

30. Yup

Damn that's depressing.

[YoungDemCA]

34. Very powerful and thoughtful

Thanks, sheshe2.

Recommended.

[BillZBubb]

36. Sorry, I find this sort of thing very divisive and disingenuous.

Somehow white liberals keep getting singled out as a big problem. To that I say NONSENSE! If white liberals were the biggest problem, our racial troubles in America would be near an end.

This white liberal has no problem talking about the racial problems in America. I have no problem understanding the message of BLM. I don't feel uncomfortable about it at all. I agree with their point. I would love to see an action plan to get us where we need to go. There are many more like me.

I remember this very attack on liberals being a mainstay of the right wing strategy. They were trying to break up the successful coalition of people of color and the rest of the Democratic party. Driving a wedge between black voters and white liberals was their central objective. It appears their propaganda has resonated with a lot of people. That is a tragedy.

[haele]

40. White liberal here, too...but I am not afraid or feel guilty to admit there's a "tribal identity"

that can become a door rather than a window.

Being told there's "white privilege" can go several different ways.

It's either going to be a wedge, or it can be a "come together" realization.

Why is there white privilege should be the question? - Because there is. This country was built on white privilege, whether a person who is primarily Caucasian in background cares to take advantage of it or not.

See, the truth is, the very first thing that people notice will about you when they see you, even from a distance, or in dim light, is the color of your skin. Above gender, above age. I can't escape it. People know I'm white. You can't escape it, not from the distance, not due to the light.
Race is the first thing people are going to react to when they see you.
Example - it's evening and I'm visiting a friend in a middle class neighborhood I've never been to before and caught a glimpse of a black man in the next-door yard walking up to a window of the house with tools in his hand.
The automatic question that comes to mind with a lot of people, no matter the race of the observer - this is a nice neighborhood - does he live there, and is fixing the window screen - or is he a burglar?
I will admit thinking that, and then immediately banishing it as a stupid thought. Does that make me racist, or a product of the society in which we live?
My real guilty self-question would be - would I think the same if I caught a glimpse of a white man, or an Asian man, or a Hispanic man in the same situation?

What it comes to is that white people, or those who "pass" don't have to worry that the color of their skin is going to work against them when dealing with the law, or in other social interactions. They default to "normal" in Media. They're the target audience. They aren't going to be pulled over for DWB in a nice car, they're going to have to do more than that to get the attention of the cops.
While they might get shot, or targeted, their race won't be the prime reason they were noticed in the first place.
It is a privilege - not to have assumptions made against you because of your race. Well, except assumptions made against you from people who are actually being targeted initially because of their race...

And it's a bitter truth for a lot of white people to swallow. They want to be "better than that". I understand, I want to be better than a thoughtlessly reactive "default to racist" white "dude".
Blame society. Blame history. Blame whatever. But it's still a privilege granted us as light-skinned people solely due to our skin tone. So why don't we all just accept it - and move to work on the solution to it?

Solutions that include a better sense, more inclusive definition of community rather than tribe. Better training for police. Better adherence to the laws that protect the rights of all citizens.
Pointing out assholes that are trying to build a wall of words that they've co-opted and twisted to hide their greed, fear and guilt behind.

And we can still do all of this while working on the privileges of class and gender too. Inclusiveness shouldn't diminish.
Nothing in the world says we can't be inclusive - that we can't both walk and chew gum, is there?

Haele

[BillZBubb]

41. I agree with just about everything you wrote.

I have no doubt about white privilege--it is real, it is ingrained in our culture. I don't feel uncomfortable talking about it either.

My belief is that for meaningful change to occur, an awareness of the politics involved is essential. Everyone working towards this goal should be focusing on the true roadblocks. White liberals are NOT that.

This recent series of posts attacking white liberals is precisely what shouldn't be happening. It is Democrat vs. Democrat and at a much more vicious level than who is pro-Hillary, pro-Sanders, pro-O'Malley, etc. It is something the right wing has been working on for years. It is a variation of their propaganda that white liberals simply take advantage of people of color for their votes.

[craigmatic]

37. And that dear friends is called white fragility.