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Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:04 PM Aug 2015

voters know Bernie and Trump can't win, they just don't care yet

There’s actually a very good reason: It’s because people do care about electability. They just don’t care about it yet.

Witness this new poll showing Sanders leading Clinton in New Hampshire. The poll, from Franklin Pierce University, shows just 7 percent of people say being the most electable is their top criterion. On the GOP side, just 3 percent says it's their top criterion. In both parties, about six in 10 emphasize the issues, first and foremost.

Similarly, last month’s national Washington Post-ABC News poll showed picking a candidate who “has the best chance of winning” was the top priority for just 3 percent Republican- and Demcoratic-leaning voters. 3 percent!

So it’s not-so-surprising to see a candidate like Sanders (or Trump) rise to the top.

Voters are actually pretty smart in that they know these guys probably can't win. A June Monmouth poll showed 59 percent of Democratic voters said Sanders would have a worse chance than Clinton; only 13 percent thought he'd have a better chance. A CBS News poll last month, meanwhile, showed 78 percent of Democratic voters said Clinton was their most electable candidate, while just 5 percent said that of Sanders. That's even as 17 percent supported Sanders.

So clearly, even his supporters know the deal. They just don't care -- at this stage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/13/the-one-big-reason-neither-donald-trump-nor-bernie-sanders-can-keep-this-up/

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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voters know Bernie and Trump can't win, they just don't care yet (Original Post) Liberal_in_LA Aug 2015 OP
It's funny how that works - your candidate can't win until... Schema Thing Aug 2015 #1
I don't know of any other dem candidates that seem to be any more or less electable than Bernie. RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #2
Tell that to Bernie's pollsters. nt B2G Aug 2015 #3
...... daleanime Aug 2015 #5
Good point, Dems and Reps elect their leaders based on very different criteria. Rex Aug 2015 #4
MMMMMmmmmmm........ no. Smarmie Doofus Aug 2015 #6
Another attemp at demoralizing us. azmom Aug 2015 #7
Exactly. nt ladjf Aug 2015 #11
I wonder where the Post aquired their Crystal Ball. Agnosticsherbet Aug 2015 #8
Reminds me of how Americans swapped out culture/taste for marketability daredtowork Aug 2015 #9
I can't wait to see the debate in Nov of next year where both Sanders and Trump laugh of about it nt LostOne4Ever Aug 2015 #10
Hmmm . . . they seem to forget Ronald Reagan won. Vinca Aug 2015 #12
As does Dumbya. KamaAina Aug 2015 #14
Nice job equating Bernie with The Combover KamaAina Aug 2015 #13
I don't accept this premise. NowSam Aug 2015 #15
Anyone remember the early odds of a young Chi-town Senator? nc4bo Aug 2015 #16
Conan O'Brien joke: Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #18
Heehee! nt nc4bo Aug 2015 #26
The difference is, BS can't rely on the Obama coalition. The numbers just aren't there. nt Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #35
Conan on Hillary Ichingcarpenter Aug 2015 #17
Ah, you got the picture to post...Great minds. Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #19
.... nc4bo Aug 2015 #27
this tactic of linking Bernie with trump and his supporters with trump's cali Aug 2015 #20
Why is this still in GP? Ichingcarpenter Aug 2015 #22
beats me. cali Aug 2015 #25
Maybe so many posters have had threads hidden that there Purveyor Aug 2015 #29
Some primary talk is more equal than others. /nt Marr Aug 2015 #37
I remember when Hillary Clinton and Mark Penn madville Aug 2015 #21
No one is electable until they're elected. LanternWaste Aug 2015 #23
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Aug 2015 #24
Oh haha. The media is moving from the 'ignore' stage to 'laugh' or perhaps 'fight'. Matariki Aug 2015 #28
No. PowerToThePeople Aug 2015 #30
So we should all just shut up and vote for Hillary then, right? NightWatcher Aug 2015 #31
If these elections are so pre-determined, then why bother vote? davidn3600 Aug 2015 #32
Definitely don't know that, but you keep onecaliberal Aug 2015 #33
This article is bunk on bunk. It says that even though very few voters think rhett o rick Aug 2015 #34
So what happens when two unelectable candidates run against each other? Marr Aug 2015 #36
The idea that they "can't win".. sendero Aug 2015 #38
Bernie is a US Senator. He's won elections. He can plausibly win again. TwilightGardener Aug 2015 #39

Schema Thing

(10,283 posts)
1. It's funny how that works - your candidate can't win until...
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:18 PM
Aug 2015


... oh shit, suddenly it looks like we could win!!

I was at a Drinking Liberally meetup this past tuesday - full of what-should-be-enthusiastic Hillary supporters - and all but a couple would indeed happily pull the lever for her if she's the nominee (and fully expect she will be). And yet every one of us had Bernie at the top of their list for support right now. And I'm talking some female, life-long Dems in the group. (had a couple of idiots who actually admire Trump too :smh: - but they also are pro Bernie).

RadiationTherapy

(5,818 posts)
2. I don't know of any other dem candidates that seem to be any more or less electable than Bernie.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:19 PM
Aug 2015

Let me know if one emerges.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
4. Good point, Dems and Reps elect their leaders based on very different criteria.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:21 PM
Aug 2015

This will probably get locked for not being in the GD-P forum.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
8. I wonder where the Post aquired their Crystal Ball.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:36 PM
Aug 2015

I think eithre of them could win.

Populism, on both sides, is proving a powrful force in this election.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
9. Reminds me of how Americans swapped out culture/taste for marketability
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:39 PM
Aug 2015

A funny thing happened on the way to general collapse of America's ability to support creative artists. Reviewers stopped reviewing according to criteria of quality and stopped trying to imagine standards of eternal value. (Yep, doesn't that sound stodgy and conservative?) Instead, reviews of art "products" reflect the scale of market preference - usually scored by Internet clicks, Likes, etc. These preferences are shaped by the money invested in PR and hype, so people who are already celebrities or people who have the money to buy PR accumulate the clicks: suddenly their book/movie/song is the most popular, so it must be the "best". The crowd has deemed it so!

Meanwhile, the humanities teachers who tried to establish a canon usually did so from a white-privileged position and fell afoul of so many challenges, that they abandoned their responsibilities and cultural leaders all together and simply bemoan "everything is relative these days!". So who can blame the general public when they don't rally around the cause of supporting Humanities departments or cultural institutions like the NEA when even the teachers are saying that there are no criteria if we can't have white criteria, and we should throw out all this useless Liberal Arts education in favor of narrow employment training.

Now we get to the candidates. Hillary is the most marketable. She has the PR department behind her. She has the clickbait. Therefore she's the "best". Wow, talk about giving America the President we deserve.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
13. Nice job equating Bernie with The Combover
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:49 PM
Aug 2015

A sarcastic tip of the hat to the Bezos-owned WaPo Release 2.0.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
15. I don't accept this premise.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:51 PM
Aug 2015

I am a voter and I know Bernie can indeed win and is winning the heart of the people. He exposes the injustices and shines the light of truth on the cause of the maladies that plague the Nation.

This is a huge paradigm shift occurring in the thinking of the people - they are waking up to the fact that they have been had - we all have - and no longer will old rhetoric, tactics, and political shenanigans will work. The people have had enough.

This time it is different.

Bernie can win. Bernie will win. Because he has to. The world needs him.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
18. Conan O'Brien joke:
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:47 PM
Aug 2015

Hillary: "Oh, please. Like I'm going to lose the Democratic nomination to a left-wing senator nobody's ever heard of."

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
20. this tactic of linking Bernie with trump and his supporters with trump's
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:54 PM
Aug 2015

is both repugnant and transparent.

madville

(7,412 posts)
21. I remember when Hillary Clinton and Mark Penn
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:55 PM
Aug 2015

Were saying the same type of thing about Obama in 2007/2008. How'd that work out for them?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
23. No one is electable until they're elected.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:56 PM
Aug 2015

No mountain is climbable until someone climbs it. Every ship is unsinkable until it sinks. No one is electable until they're elected... dime-store prophets and editorial pretense notwithstanding.

H2O Man

(73,634 posts)
24. Respectfully disagree.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:58 PM
Aug 2015

Both Sanders and/or Trump could win -- not only their respective primary contests, but the general election as well.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
31. So we should all just shut up and vote for Hillary then, right?
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:11 PM
Aug 2015

Her campaign needs to work on messaging because this is not getting it done.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
32. If these elections are so pre-determined, then why bother vote?
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:18 PM
Aug 2015

You seem to be saying the election will be Jeb vs Hillary no matter what....

So why bother pay any attention to politics if our party overlords are going to make these decisions for us?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
34. This article is bunk on bunk. It says that even though very few voters think
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:53 PM
Aug 2015

that electability is important, that isn't really true. They will change their minds later because the magic 8 ball told me so.

There is a fact that some just can't get their heads around. Many of Sen Sanders supporters are anti-Clinton. Many are only voting because they see a rare opportunity to elect someone with integrity.

And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if Clinton supporters say they will proudly support who ever gets the nomination, and you have some Sen Sanders supporters saying that they will never support Clinton, that Sanders would get more support in the general than Clinton.

(Sanders supporters + Clinton supporters) in the general if Sanders is the nominee.

(Clinton supporters + a few Sanders supporters) in the general if Clinton is the nominee.

Simple math shows that Sanders is more electable. And I didn't even include some Republicans that are saying they like Sander's message. Zero Republicans like Clinton's message.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
39. Bernie is a US Senator. He's won elections. He can plausibly win again.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:06 PM
Aug 2015

Trump bought his way through life. He is untested, electorally.

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