Worse for women than Trump? Bama sorority recruiting video under fire

[woolldog]

I think it's a pretty slick video. Is this a step backwards for women?

******

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/worse-women-donald-trump-or-harmless-fun-sorority-/nnLcC/

12:27 p.m. Monday, Aug. 17, 2015 | Filed in: Nation

A sorority recruiting video has gone viral, and at the same time come under fire for how it portrays college and Greek life.

The Alpha Phi chapter at the University of Alabama's video, which had 500,000 views in its first week of posting, has been pulled, but snippets can still be found online on sites like The Daily Mail.

A guest opinion piece, posted to al.com, claimed the video was "worse for women than Donald Trump," citing images of sorority sisters wearing bikinis and blowing glitter that "sell beauty, sexuality, and a specific look."


The writer, identified as A.L. Bailey, called the video, with bouncing bodies, hand-holding, and no diversity, "Stepford Wives: College Edition," and disempowering of women, not focused on recruiting smart young women starting their college careers. Rather, the members are marketing to "hormonal college-aged guys."

Online reaction to the piece argued that the video was not supposed to be taken seriously and was intended to be lighthearted, while others agreed with Bailey's assessment of the clip, the "Today" show reported.

[....]

al.com article: http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/08/bama_sorority_video_worse_for.html

[Kip Humphrey]

1. "Segregation today; segregation tomorrow; segregation forever".

disgusting.

[woolldog]

5. ...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/annasoldner/university-of-alabamas-sororities-remain-mostly-segregated#.ggpQgpEXY

[Skittles]

8. I couldn't get past how phony all the participants are

horrible

[pnwmom]

2. No, it's not a step backward. It's a step forward,

straight into the Bunny Mansion.

I'm pretty sure I saw Hef lounging in that all-white living room. Maybe his pal Cosby was there, too.

[GummyBearz]

22. Bunny mansion... psh, that is beneath me

I'll drop out after a few years of partying, and have to wait until my trust fund kicks in at 25 and that should cover me nicely until I start showing any signs of aging. I have a few prospects out there with rich parents that I should be able to marry when I'm done messing around. Maybe I'll have to work for one of their dads for a bit. But the prospects are making good money themselves (one is a doctor, the others own successful businesses). That income is probably enough for a family, so at most I'll just work a couple years. I'll have kids next, and then dabble with cocaine for a few years. Then its time to settle down and just drink a lot of wine and have memories of my glory days, and I'll have that youtube video to show my beautiful girls when they go off to the University of Alabama.


That is why you join our sorority, for the good life

[pnwmom]

28. Thanks for explaining why girls join sororities. You might be right and it's scary. n/t

[Syzygy321]

64. I don't think she's right. I think she's stereotyping.

"Rich, bored, frivolous, cokehead" etc...

People join social clubs for all kinds of reasons, especially in college where you're feeling your way into adulthood. I joined the Outdoors Club because I liked caving and I fit in best with the rugged stoner boys. Sororities were more for girls who liked parties and boys and togetherness and conventional girl stuff. Nothing wrong with that.

Now that I'm middle-aged, I think it's pretty cool that some of my friends talk of their sorority sisters in an unexpected way: These are now the old friends who visit from out of town with kids in tow; or who cheer them through their ugly divorces, or it's "if you need a lawyer you should try mine. I've known her for 20 years - smartest and craziest girl at my sorority."

[pnwmom]

70. I don't think every sorority is the same.

But I think that particular video will draw a certain type of girl, and if the sorority is full of girls like that -- well, it's a bunny mansion.

Yuk.

But I do know more than one sorority alumna, and you're right that they aren't all the same.

[hifiguy]

44. It's not the exclusive mindset

but it is more common than one would think. There are still a certain number of young women who go to college (who are exclusively those on their parents' dime) looking for the MRS degree.

[woolldog]

47. I've lived in Alabama for a little over a year

and culturally the South is VERY different than the rest of the US. I've lived all over the country. Women are VERY "feminine" here i.e., into traditional gender roles/mores and just very girly compared to the rest of the country.

Not sure if s/he was joking or not, but GummyBearz pretty much hit the nail on the head. I know several people that went to UA (I didn't) and from what I hear the women get "done up" to go to class...ie dressed up, lots of makeup, just the right shoes, hair styled. Sounds exhausting to go through that every day! But these particular types of women: upper class, sheltered etc are in these sororities and go to college to meet an upper class guy to marry and pump out babies with. Kind of a throwback to a different era and I can't relate, but I'm not going to judge.

I don't know what to make of the racial makeup here. Racism? or self-selection? The black women I know here wouldn't have wanted to join a sorority like this.

[hifiguy]

49. It's a different world.

I used to work with a woman who was raised in Duluth, MN and went to SMU in Dallas. She was shocked by the culture down in Texas. "Women put on full makeup and dress up to go ANYWHERE." My colleague could doll up/girly-girl with the best of them and was extremely attractive, but she was a pretty casual gal, stylewise, in everyday life. She couldn't get her head around by Southern social/style norms. She came back to Minnesota.

[BreakfastClub]

67. I find this attitude very sexist. There is nothing wrong

with meeting your husband in college. However, to say that "a certain number of" women are going to college simply to get a man is extremely inflammatory and dismissive of women and women's educational pursuits. I have NEVER met a woman who said her goal in going to college was to get a degree in "Mrs." It's a disgusting charge and women deserve better, especially on a democratic site.

[hifiguy]

68. I saw a bit of it at the Big 10 university

I attended but never outside the tonier sororities. My real awareness that it still exists came from a female colleague at a law firm, described below, who told me how prominent it was where she went to college in Texas. She was pretty shocked by it. Not her style at ALL. But then she went to law school and practiced until she discovered flying and decided to become a commercial pilot, which she did.

[Syzygy321]

78. Seconded. Plenty of girls want to find a hopping social life

or a great boyfriend at college. Plenty of guys hope to meet someone amazing too. And that proves exactly nothing.

[woolldog]

82. You're welcome to disagree

with his observations but the mindset he describes in still common in the south among a certain subset of the population. Not everyone is as evolved on gender as we'd wish them to be.

[hifiguy]

91. A subset of a subset.

Not a common thing at al, especially in the North, but it still exists in some places

Thank you for recognizing my point and not taking knee-jerk offense.

[BreakfastClub]

66. Many of these women will go on to have good careers

and be productive members of society. I don't judge them for being in a sorority. I grew up poor, and barely even knew what a sorority was at their age, but I don't resent these young women or assume they are vapid and promiscuous. I'm sure many of them are very nice, if privileged, people.

[pnwmom]

69. Not every sorority would decide to film a T & A video, like this one.

And I doubt this would succeed as a recruiting tool for most future career women.

I have a niece who did join a sorority, is in professional school now, and she would have been repelled by this.

[demmiblue]

3. I thought it was a Fox News audition tape.

But, no, not worse than Trump. That is silly.

[big_dog]

14. i always wondered where the faux news anchors came from!

there is a great parody video waiting to get made from this

[bermudat]

4. I don't understand, why an AA football player and not a white one?

And why all the holding and touching? and overly made up lips?
Looks like the lipstick worn by porn stars.

[woolldog]

6. Kenyan Drake

he's the star of the team

[TM99]

7. Because that young black man

is a senior & their star running back.

http://247sports.com/Player/Kenyan-Drake-708

Are you shaming these young women because they are attractive? You have a lot of experience with porn then, right? I mean I like to watch it sometimes myself but I would hardly recognize a lipstick shade worn by porn stars on a sorority sister.

[pnwmom]

71. No, because they're in a T & A production masquerading as a recruitment video. n/t

[kwassa]

57. They needed to offset the lack of diversity in the sorority.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

76. Diversity at Alpha Phi, from what I saw there, means

they actually allow in members who DON'T bleach their hair blonde and grow it long, but they're still a minority.

[GreatGazoo]

73. you left out the popsicles

Popsicles are apparently a very important part of this sorority. Seems to be the only thing they eat.

[Skittles]

9. this editorial is outstanding

women do NOT EMPOWER themselves when they act like this

"72 women who could be a united front for empowerment, not poster children for detrimental stereotypes and clichés" <-- that is dead on

I can guarantee you there will be a time when these gals feel like women are not taken seriously, yet they have zero clue how they add to that culture when they participate in crap like this

[Warpy]

10. A lot, well, most of the credit goes to the shitbag who made the video

and had absolutely no idea what to do with that many young women, so s/he just went for the low hanging fruit and portrayed them as fun loving little bunnies.

For their part, those young women are mostly under 22 and pretty clueless about how the world works.

This video advertises tail, beachwear, skimpy leisurewear, and the sorority, in that order.

Any of those women who expect to be taken seriously at their jobs later on are going to have a lot to live down.

[Skittles]

12. when I was 22 I had served four years in the military

I guess I cannot relate to the sentiment that is SOOOOO terribly young to not know any better

[Warpy]

40. The military grows you up fast

as does early motherhood. These women have been pretty well protected.

[cwydro]

19. As a woman, I hate to say this,

but I doubt they want to work "jobs."

I'm betting they're looking for that "MRS" degree so prized in the 50's and 60's.

[Warpy]

39. Naw, even in Alabama they dream of making it big in a career in their 20s

and doing the mommy thing in their 30s. Otherwise, the south would still have "finishing schools" rather than college for its well off young women.

[cwydro]

41. Well, they might be looking forward to a job with FOX.

They're well on their way.

[woolldog]

48. see my post #47

jme...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. Everybody knows good girls do what they're told.

[MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy]

11. recruiting ... what?

Johns?

The images are not selling "beauty, sexuality and a specific look". They are selling women.

(They're under 22? Seriously now, were any of us here present so stupid at 20 or even 18 that we either behaved like this or thought this behaviour reasonable? Are there not 20-year-old women today who simply know better? My goodness, these women are enrolled in postsecondary education. Obviously a waste of someone's money.)


I keep wondering when the Greeks are going to send the diplomatic note demanding their alphabet back.

Bringing the Elgin marbles home would be nice, but surely rescuing their language from these fools is a little more urgent.

[tabasco]

30. Oh that's a howl about the alphabet.

LOL!

[Taitertots]

34. Yeah, they are prostitutes for not wearing burkas

I guess it's a Rorschach test. Disgusting people see hookers and normal people see normal college students.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

77. #AlphaPhiSoWhite they make Bernie rallies in Vermont look diverse.

I saw a sea of white, mainly. In Alabama, of all places.

[MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy]

84. oh yes indeed, my friend

Yeah, they are prostitutes for not wearing burkas

That is exactly what I said!

[get the red out]

13. 30 years

I had the same opinion of "Greek life" when I was a college student 30 years ago. I am glad the media is figuring this out.

[Orrex]

25. Likewise

This could have been the recruiting film for all but one of the frats/sororities during my time @ PSU in the early 90s.

[AngryAmish]

16. Young kids made a dumb video.

Now people nationwide have decided to destroy their lives.

Anyone who cares about this is spreading cancer. This applies triply to the turd gobbling loser who wrote the oped.

In college you are allowed to make mistakes.

[woolldog]

18. People have decided to destroy their lives?

Hardly.

[Orrex]

26. In college you should also learn the consequences of your mistakes

[Syzygy321]

65. I still don't get why this is a "mistake"

that deserves "consequences". What are you thinking: stocks and pillory? Or public shaming? Why?

What's the crime? Who's the victim?

If you don't like the video, fine. No problem.

[Orrex]

72. Not sure who you're addressing.

I still don't get why this is a "mistake"

I didn't say it was a mistake.

that deserves "consequences". What are you thinking: stocks and pillory? Or public shaming? Why?

Since I didn't say that it was a mistake, I don't really have any obligation to answer this.

What's the crime? Who's the victim?

Since I identified neither crime nor victim, I don't really have any obligation to answer this.

If you don't like the video, fine. No problem.

I haven't stated whether or not I like the video, so this doesn't apply to me.


Did you hit "REPLY" on the wrong post?

[Syzygy321]

74. Someone above said something like

"college is where you learn that mistakes have consequences" - which made me roll my eyes. That is the comment I was responding to . If I plugged my post into the wrong spot, I apologize.

BTW you are never "under any obligation" to answer anyone, pretty much ever. (Except during those pesky depositions.) Not sure why you are getting all affronted.

[Orrex]

75. Not affronted at all, thanks.

I know from long experience on DU that people will readily call out a perceived failure to address questions that they think are important. Specifically, they will declare the perceived failure to be a deliberate and significant denial. If you don't fall in that category, then this doesn't apply to you, but once bitten...

So I'm not "affronted" in the slightest. I'm simply explaining why I've declined to answer questions.

"college is where you learn that mistakes have consequences" - which made me roll my eyes.

That was indeed my statement, but I didn't state that the video is a mistake. That, I believe, is where you erred.

Your point should probably addressed to AngryAmish, who wrote

In college you are allowed to make mistakes.

So that's were the idea that the video is a "mistake" was introduced.

Glad to help.

[snooper2]

27. There are hundreds of stupid recruitment videos like this, I guess there is a lull in SJW material

It'll be something different in a day or two LOL

[Taitertots]

17. How dare they make a video where they dress up and have fun...

There is nothing wrong with the video, there is something wrong with the people who are bothered by it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

23. Body shaming comes in many forms.

[Taitertots]

35. How much weight should they gain to avoid "shaming" you?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. I'm petite myself. So , I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say.

[Taitertots]

37. How are they "body shaming" people?

You claim it is body shaming people... Who?

How much weight would they have to gain to avoid "body shaming" those people?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. No. I'm claiming people are body-shaming the sorority sisters.

The sorority is being criticized for being attractive and making a show of it.

[Taitertots]

42. I agree. I thought you were accusing them of body shaming other people

[tabasco]

33. Waaaaaaah! Leave the Alpha Phis alone!!!

[Gigabear]

52. Agreed, I don't get the controversy here at all.

It's as if people are just looking for any excuse to get offend so that they can anonymously trash talk others.

[Snow Leopard]

59. Happens every day here.

Some people just aren't happy unless they are angry. :^)

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. "marketing to guys?" I never went to college, but I know what a sorority is.

Want to know what the purpose of something is? Watch the advertisements for it.

That video describes why people buy college.

[woolldog]

21. you thinking about putting in an application to UA, jeff?

It's never too late.

[hamsterjill]

24. I find it idiotic.

Yes, I think it's a step backwards. It says to me, " Send your daughter to this school and pledge her to this sorority if you want her to be a trophy wife."

There are many young women making tremendous contributions to the world at large in today's environment. Pilots, doctors, teachers, and the list goes on. In my opinion, we need to celebrate those young women who are using their brains rather than celebrating a video made to objectify a certain typecast of what is "beauty".

[tabasco]

29. Truly nauseating.

The background music and the video are simply gag-inducing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

46. That cringeworthy dubstep break...

Oh dear...

[woolldog]

50. I thought it was cool how they used a drone. nt

[kwassa]

58. Drone, or a crane shot?

Or is a crane shot too old school in film-making?

[woolldog]

60. Nah. It's a drone. nt

[Blue_Tires]

31. Well, at least they dropped the pretense

and gave a real representation of modern Greek life


Truth in advertising, maybe?

[geek tragedy]

32. shallowness and racism at an Alabama sorority? Gambling in this establishment? tn

[bpj62]

43. Legally Blonde

Its a sorority for gods sake. My only problem with the video is that you get the impression that if you arent white and blonde you dont belong. Please remember that this is an SEC University and greek life is a major part of campus life at Southern Universities.

[woolldog]

45. Would black women

want to be a part of this sorority??? I can't imagine why! Ok the house is beautiful. The coallege I attended Greek life was on the far periphery.

[cwydro]

54. No way could I live in a house with a white living room like that lol.

I'd spill something and be booted out!

[HFRN]

51. sororities do have a role in society

fraternity parties wouldn't be much fun without them

[LittleBlue]

53. It's a sorority FFS

Stupid outrage about nothing

[vankuria]

55. I would guess

the major requirements to get into this sorority are to be very pretty, have long beautiful straight hair, preferably blonde and an amazing body that must look good in a bikini. Looks like girls with an ounce of body fat, short hair or dark skin need not apply. Makes me wonder if the girls in the video are actually the real members of this sorority or they used super models to film the video.

Having been to college and knowing many sorority girls (I was never a member), they didn't look like that or even close. The girls I remember were all shapes, sizes, hair colors and styles. Back in the 70's Greek organizations were not integrated and it looks like it's the same today, may-be more so with sororities now separated by hair color, body fat and of course race.

[a kennedy]

56. OMGOSH....dang near looks like faux cheerleaders and soon to be talking heads......

[treestar]

61. It's weird they need a recruiting video

When I was in college, they made out like they were exclusive and people had to compete to get into them.

[steve2470]

62. exactly nt

[Syzygy321]

80. My guess is there are a few "choice" sororities

on that campus. And the way you stay choice is by getting the most applicants so you can be choosy, and by getting the creme de la creme (Danish princesses, Hollywood ex-child stars, president's daughters, whatever) to choose your group over the competitors.

[Syzygy321]

63. They are just marketing themselves

Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:34 AM - Edit history (1)

in the way women are marketed in the media.

Almost every TV show and movie has lingering shots of cleavage and legs and sexy images. Girls learn early that their own presence in the audience is ignored: the shows are invariably shot through a male hetero viewpoint, and a female's place is to be never the watcher and always the watched. Object, not subject.

Here they are presenting themselves, as women, to other women, amd they show their popularity and coolness the way they have been taught: by being the best objects they can be.

Sure, maybe it's distasteful and a bit sad that the girls so eagerly strive to please imagined male eyes, even when no males are around.

But they aren't evil minions of the apocalypse. They're females in a specific college niche that emphasizes looks and popularity.

(Some sororities do. This is news?)

[prayin4rain]

87. I agree,

the messages that the society that we all contribute to is the problem, not these young women. They are expressing themselves and see themselves in a very normal way given the messages they've been fed their entire childhoods.

I would've done this at 18-21 and I've grown into a prudish 37 year old lawyer. So, there's still hope for them. Hahaha, I kid, I kid.

[Syzygy321]

88. And TBH I would have killed to have

the looks, the social graces, and the flock of friends and admirers at that age. But with time I've come to accept my awkward, homely self, and value my contribution to society (which needs oddball loners who don't follow mob mentality.)

And I too turned out great.

[lapfog_1]

79. Playoy's "Girls of the SEC" intro video?

New Stepford Wives recruitment spot?

All White Girls with single body type and almost all blonde (with a few token brunettes).

Nobody actually doing any learning (other than how to party with Coeds).

[StrongBad]

81. Wow. Lots of barely concealed envy and jealousy in this thread.

How dare these girls be white, feminine and attractive while having fun.

[kcr]

89. Right, and I bet people here are just jealous of rich people, too.

That's the only explanation for disagreeing with you. Jealousy. It couldn't possibly be anything else. The world is just that simple and uncomplicated. Wow. There's no need for college, even. Why does anyone waste their time with that? Just stop being jealous! Then, with all the money saved not going to college they wouldn't have to be jealous of the rich people. Why didn't anyone think of that? You're really smart for someone who realizes you don't have to waste all that brain power thinking of all that complicated hard stuff.

[StrongBad]

92. A lot of the rhetoric against the rich is rooted in envy.

That's not to say that there's truth in needing less concentration of wealth, but no doubt a lot of the sentiment has roots in the failure of one to achieve success in life or be born into the right family. And that's ok because not everybody can make it or be fortunate through birth circumstances.

The particular nerve this video hits upon is the unconscious understanding that all of these women are set for life. If they don't already come from wealthy families, every one of them will be able to marry well because ultra successful men go for these types of women almost exclusively.

Of course I'm sure many plan on going after a career of their own as they should, but I'm sure it's nice knowing that failure is essentially impossible so long as they retain their beauty and femininity.

[Syzygy321]

95. I agree - envy isn't all of it, but it can be the first

little stab of pain and anger: "how unfair that someone else has a (superficially) better life than mine!" Then the mind quickly translates that into acceptable high-horse moralizing which soothes the pain.

Usually it's been the Jews who are targeted but I think beautiful women get their share of it, especially from angry males. Jews and women get killed iver envy - whereas rich people only get targeted in Internet forums, since people are afraid to assault them IRL.

[kcr]

96. Of course there is doubt. Lots of it.

Because it is a simplistic way of looking at things shared by those who can't grasp the "rhetoric".

How do you explain the rich people who believe the "rhetoric"? Are they somehow jealous of themselves? Or the beautiful people who don't agree with you about the video? Or do you really believe it's only ugly people who hold that view?

[StrongBad]

97. No, the rhetoric is very simple to grasp. It's just that most people see through it.

And often the truth is simple. No need to complicate things unnecessarily.

[kcr]

98. Oh, no need to complicate things. Of course.

Because it's kind of hard to explain that, isn't it? That's what I thought.

[StrongBad]

99. No, it's painfully easy to explain your argument.

Everything that is wrong with the lives of the unfortunate is rich people's fault. They have no agency and can't be responsible for the outcomes of their own lives. If only we were able to take away money from rich people, everything would be magically better.

So complicated.

[kcr]

100. But then why aren't some rich people jealous of themselves?

I find it funny you cling to this jealousy theory, yet won't explain that. It's not complicated. It's nonsense.

[StrongBad]

101. Have you never experienced the pathology of the ultra rich?

They are incredibly jealous of those who are even more successful than they are and use money as a means of "keeping score". It's a pretty well understood psychological phenomenon.

The jealousy I was initially referring to was regarding the jealousy of some women of the young ladies in this video. I explained this in my initial reply to you if you'd like to go back and read it again.

[kcr]

102. Wait. So you've experienced the pathology of the ultra rich

Yet claim those who point out their actions are just jealous of them. Oooookay.

[StrongBad]

103. Sigh. No.

You are the one that claimed it is not true that people are jealous of those better off than them. Your argument to this claim was that if it were true, rich people would be jealous of each other. You furthermore asserted that because rich people aren't jealous of each other, the aforementioned statement can't be true.

I replied that rich people are indeed incredibly jealous of other well off people who are doing better than them, so your argument falls apart. Do you have anything else?

[BlueJazz]

83. The Video sucks, the music sucks. Geared to the average low IQ American.

I'm ashamed to even be in the same reality as these people.

[LWolf]

85. The article makes a valid point,

although I wouldn't go quite as far as Bailey did.

I'm assuming "no diversity" means all white...a good point.

To be honest, and I know it's been a very long time, I don't remember really needing to "market" anything to hormonal young men. They just showed up.

Worse than Trump? No. Not great, but not worse than Trump.

[PufPuf23]

86. I would have thought this a parody video if not told otherwise.

The segment with the black football player made the video all the more seem like parody.

I had zero awareness of the specific football player save for this thread.

But maybe I am old and out of touch.

[woolldog]

90. you're not old and out of touch.

I'm just a huge football fan.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

93. This is what everyone was worked up about?

It looks like an American Eagle commercial.

[yuiyoshida]

94. let me guess...

future FOX employees?