Curious.....was it this divisive between the Obama and Hillary supporters last time?

[a kennedy]

yikes, this is sad and bad. We need to be more tolerant, and supportive of all Democratic candidates, or it's a full boat for the repubs. JMHO.

[PeteSelman]

1. Worse.

This ain't nothing yet.

[zipplewrath]

2. PUMA

This time around that expression would probably get a post locked.

[Liberal Veteran]

6. "Let it sink!" was born as well. -nt

[lonestarnot]

58. I hate that acro as it is also a gun.

[yourout]

11. +1....much worse.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Yes, IIRC, but it shouldn't have been, and it still shouldn't be that way.

We may strongly prefer one candidate over another, but jeez, people, get a grip. Enthusiasm is great; vitriol is not.

[Liberal Veteran]

4. Oh, lord. It was very close to open warfare.

We can be quite mean when we try and my gosh, did we try.

[JI7]

5. worse but i think it was after voting started where it got

Really really bad

[madville]

7. You were either accused of being a sexist or a racist pretty much

Depending who your candidate was.

[awoke_in_2003]

12. Or both...

if your first pick was Edwards (damn him) then Biden.

[geek tragedy]

19. Edwards supporters weren't sexist or racist just

gullible.

[awoke_in_2003]

28. Yeah, maybe we were a little

He was the only one actually talking about poverty, and not just cow-towwing to the middle class.

[moonscape]

48. I thought he was interesting before he was running, but

once he got into the race, he was such a one-note guy. Poverty seemed to be all he talked about, and every speech was the same, and simplistic.

It was hard for me, being a woman of Hillary's generation, and not supporting her. Many of my friends did. One of them, a female attorney same age, was as passionate about her as I was about Obama. Eventually we tip-toed around politics and stayed in our corners. She was so disappointed, that a part of her sadly I think never got over it.

Am even less of a Clinton supporter now than then, but don't dare talk about it! At least then, there was a candidate I was so excited about, and always convinced could and would win. That's not the case now.

This time, I'm feeling so pessimistic about our chances, and am hoping that feeling is actually misdirected raw fear. That's why I sought out a refuge and signed up here. Am hoping against hope to be talked down off the ledge as this progresses

[davidpdx]

75. Welcome to DU

Last time this place was absolutely fucking nuts. It got worse toward the end of the primary when a certain group of people (mentioned up thread) decided to go postal. My guess is some of them are still around too.

I know how you feel as I am a progressive as well. At the beginning of the year when it was just Clinton that had announced, I was wondering if anyone was going to step up and give us an alternative. We've got two good alternatives, I just hope one of them can beat Clinton. If it is Clinton vs. Bush voter turnout will be low and the race will be close. Of all the match ups that in my opinion is the worst one for both sides.

As for this place, I don't think it will talk you down off the ledge. It may make you feel like you want to jump.

[underthematrix]

54. And African americans were told we were only voting for

President Obama because he was AA too. That pissed a lot of us off since we had been voting for white presidents forever. Jesse Jackson and Rev Al Sharpton ran and I didn't support either one of them although I had great respect for their civil rights work. I had planned to vote for PBO when I was introduced to him at the 2004 DEm convention. I told my husband if he runs I will support him. And we did. By the way, my husband is German/English and loves PBO.

[artislife]

70. He made quite an entrance to the country

with that speech. I was...."Who is this guy?" I am so happy he has been our president. As a Latina, I felt he was pulling us all along!

Will miss him and the family when they go. I haven't agreed with some of his decisions but I am grateful he lead us all.

[ellisonz]

8. 2004: Worse 2008: Worser 2016: Meh

The first two involved multiple contending candidates on near equal footings. Sanders is the sole insurgent. O'Malley and Webb have no traction, Biden and Gore aren't running.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

9. PUMA - Party Unity My Ass.

[vaberella]

35. Oh I remember that. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

61. Ahh.....memories....

[PowerToThePeople]

10. It has always been with DU

Real DUers have a severe disgust with right wingers.

[hrmjustin]

13. From what i remember reading at the time it was divisive.

Hopefully when it is over we unite around our nominee.

[daredtowork]

46. racist PUMAs aside

the Democratic Party Machine has to take a long look at itself. They endanger the idea of "everyone getting behind the nominee" by crowning an "inevitable" candidate ahead of time that is really unacceptable that to anyone who seriously cares about poverty.

Even MaggieD's triumphal speech couldn't sell it. She broke right at the point where she said *after* she got economic equality she started noticing she didn't have other kinds of equality. Well it's nice to be in a place where you have the luxury to work on those other aspects of equality, but don't step on those other people who don't yet have economic equality to do it.

That's what everyone who is supporting Hillary and creating false dichotomies between the social and the economic are doing in my book.

Hillary probably will be nominated.

At that point I predict a whole bunch of voters will just become apathetic. They won't want to be accused of being traitors or underminers by speaking up. They won't want "so do you want the GOP candidate????" to be thrown in their face. So they will just grow silent. They will get on with their lives and try to shut out what is happening: the worst Democratic President possible for the poor. They will probably forget to vote on election day all together.

This kind of mass disenfranchisement, engineered by Wall Street, is sad.

[hrmjustin]

49. And do you think that there won't be people who react the same way if Sanders gets the nod?

Sanders supporters on this site have not exaclty been the most welcoming to people.

Personally no matter how obnoxious his supporters on this site get, I will not abandon him if he is the nominee.


And in the future if you have an issue with Maggie you can let her know.

[daredtowork]

50. Sadly I agree with that

I don't think Bernie is the perfect candidate, and I think the way his supporters insisted on looking for more reasons to be angry at BLM highlighted those rifts.

I still blame the Democratic Machine for pushing their "inevitable" candidate in the first place and not getting a better take on where the country was.

I'm sure since MaggieD bothered to make a public declaration of allegiance, she can deal with a public comment about said declaration.

[underthematrix]

53. I too will vote for him if I have to.

[Marrah_G]

73. You know, most of the mpeople being called racist PUMAs were neither

And frankly, just hearing the word is like picking at a scab. For goodness sake just fucking let it go.

[Bok_Tukalo]

14. Worse. And not just here.

But It is very early and that was a long campaign. I would be surprised if this makes it past Texas Tuesday. It should be wrapped up by then.

[uponit7771]

15. There were loud noises heard from each page !!! Yes, it was worse... Just think, Hillary was more

... expected to when then than now.

[Crunchy Frog]

16. Are you fucking kidding.

(Apologies for the language.)

[a kennedy]

18. No I'm not f*cking kidding.......I don't remember....sorry.

Sheesh....... :eyes. Wow, just even talking about the last election is nuts. Gotta go and hang out in the lounge..... I'll be back when it's over. Wow.

[Liberal Veteran]

23. As I recall, the infamous "Chicken Wars" was a Lounge phenomenon.

No place is completely safe.

[geek tragedy]

17. do a site search for Tellurian and "Perry logan" to get an answer nt

[Iggo]

20. lol...this ain't shit.

way less name-calling this time around.

[Matariki]

21. Yeah, pretty much

I've been wondering if I'm alone in not harboring severe antipathy toward any of the Democratic candidates.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yes, and I expect the same pattern

last time it was racism, this time I expect antisemitism.

[oberliner]

25. Are you suggesting that there are racists and antisemites on DU?

And that they support Hillary?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I just said what I expect

let's see if I get proven correct. I hope I am not, but I am not holding my breath.

And are you telling me we did not see racism: Enjoy

[oberliner]

40. But was your comment re: Obama/Hillary about DU or the MSM?

I wasn't sure if you were saying there was racism here or racism elsewhere.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. DU is not separate from the world

and it got down right that ugly.

You might want to correct Alicia Garza on her statement on this last week as well. She is one of the "leaders" of BLM. I use that in quotation marks since I understand the nature of a highly distributive movement.

Here's the thing: what this last week has shown me (actually confirmed for me) is that populism can be really dangerous and tend rightward. Pay attention to these reactions. White people never rose up so much for a white candidate. Not even when Clinton ran one of the most racist campaigns against Obama in 2008. And the right has been silent but don't mistake silent for being inactive. Marinate on that for a minute.

I hope it does not, but in this case, history is truly prelude. I remember. Perhaps since I do pay attention to these things. 2004 was bad, 2008 was open warfare, this will go nuclear.

Oh and read post 29. I am not the only one that remembers... the racism... and the rest of it.

[oberliner]

44. I understand that

Obviously there was racism directed at Obama during the campaign.

But were you specifically saying that there was racism here on this board?

It is one thing to criticize the world at large, but did you specifically mean this much smaller community in particular?

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. There was

yes, indeed.

I am not the only one that remembers that. I am not sure if it was as bad as in the outside world, but there was.

It was just as coded as the Campaign. We are starting to see some things on the web principally, but even here that scare the living daylights out of me... but that is why I have a passport. Worst case scenario... well I hope I have time to buy a ticket and not try to sneak across borders. I am not a young chick anymore. Realize my ears are highly tuned to that crap due to family history.

[underthematrix]

68. Oh lord I remember this. I miss Keith Olbermann

[artislife]

71. I so remember this

...serpentine logic....

it was really hateful.

[Control-Z]

36. That's a crock and you know it. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Nope it is not

and I hope not, but will not hold my breath, that this will be far, far, far, worst.

[zappaman]

62. What a load of crap.

[Blue_In_AK]

24. Yes, it was awful,

especially for those of us who didn't support either one.

[Throd]

26. I remember it as being worse, but it's still early.

[JackInGreen]

27. Waaaaaay worse

Eom.


'Course the season aint over yet

[Jamastiene]

29. We despised each other.

Long time friends became enemies with accusations of either misogyny or racism being leveled at each other. Lists were made of Hillary supporters to try to get TSed. Everyone hated each other. It was all out warfare. This stuff right now is VERY mild in comparison to what 2008 was.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. It is early

I expect this to go nuclear after the first two primaries. Especially if the challenger does well.

[Marrah_G]

30. I still have people on ignore from it.

[StevieM]

38. Am I on your ignore list? Can you read this? (eom)

[Marrah_G]

72. LOL...nope!

[elfin]

31. It was very very toxic at times

However, nothing on DU,swayed me from making up my own mind. I swung back and forth between them with equal momentum until.... The debate where Obama said he would go after Bin Laden inside another country (Pakistan) and Hillary vacillated with remarks about "national sovereignty,"

I suspected she was hedging and hoped she would go after the SOB, but it was Obama who had the guts to say it and put Pakistan on notice. I donated and got the yard sign the next day and began volunteering at his local office as well.

I wish Obama could run again. Still have the yard sign.

Wish I could trust her. She isn't showing me that just yet.

Wish Bernie couldn't be tagged with "socialist" in our Faux dumbed down voters. Disheartened here and fearful of the general election results on all our lives, especially that of my granddaughter.

Hope Joe jumps in and would relish seeing Kerry in the mix.

But, of course, will vote for our nominee. But will save my donations for Russ.

[blogslut]

32. It's why I don't post so much anymore.

I said and did things I am ashamed of. I don't ever want to get that worked up about politicians ever again.

[a kennedy]

55. awwwwwwww

[Butterbean]

33. Yes. n/t

[vaberella]

34. I came towards the tail end of that drama in 2008 end it was shite.

Imagine being in the fray. Wow...You have no idea how bad it was.

[StevieM]

39. It was much, much worse IMO. (eom)

[krispos42]

47. Worse, I think.

I became a moderator right after Obama clinched the nomination. The previous term of mods had been told the normal 3-month term would be extended until the end of the primaries so their would be no disruption during the busiest and most contentious time on DU.

The mods were EXHAUSTED that June, and it was pretty bad during the summer due to the resentment and bitterness that lingered.

[underthematrix]

51. i think it was nastier. Many POCs have not forgiven Bill Clinton

for his remarks about PBO during the NC primary. AA peeps went ballistic. Also, Hillary said something so awful in reference to PBO that it shocked everyone. And I mean everyone on both sides of the aisle. It was totally and completely inappropriate and dangerous. No I'm not going to repeat it here. This is why even after she joined PBO's admin I was lukewarm to her. Some folks are now pissed that we have this email thing which is really not a thing at all. If HRC had not asked that all her SOS emails be released to the public, there would not be the required multi-agency vetting, which the wingnuts, righties and racists are using to stir the pot. HRC created this drama. i'm sure it was unintentional but here we go again.

Still if it's a choice between Bernie and HRC, I'm definitely going with HRC.

[potone]

52. Much worse.

But I think it started later in the process, during the primaries. People became downright nasty. I also found it disturbing that some people were arguing over whether or not Hillary should drop out before the primaries were over. Since I live on the west coast, our primaries are late and I deeply resented people wanting any candidate to drop out before we got a chance to vote. I hope that won't happen this time.

[fishwax]

56. boy howdy, was it ever

[joshcryer]

57. HAHA, no, a thousand times worse.

Even including the many "will never vote Clinton" pledges (and to a much smaller extent "never Sanders&quot DU is like a bastion of niceness.

(And yes even the racist shit was there. This time the jury system let's a certain group bully the others.)

[Hydra]

59. I refused to touch GD-P after Edwards wiped out

I got my cute little abacus out, ran the numbers, and saw that Obama and Clinton were running basically the same platform, and I didn't like any of it.

That said, it was so bad that even being studiously far away from it I saw it leaking out like poison everywhere else in DU.

I had a good laugh about it when the "compromise" came in and Hillary was made SOS. I had another one when the lobbyists were invited in ala Dick Cheney about the ACA, and suddenly the mandate Clinton always talked about was a thing again. I think a lot of DUers that had invested themselves into the race found themselves standing on funny ground after that.

In a way, I'd like to say we're fighting as much as back then...but we're fighting not about who would be the first Minority President, we're fighting about whether we're ok with the party selling out to big money or not...and there seem to be less shots fired, because maybe most of us agree on the truth of it. Could be cool if so

[NanceGreggs]

60. No, it wasn't.

It was vitriolic, it was nasty, it was the “political war to end all wars”.

But it was a very different DU then. The TOS was strictly adhered to, and the Mods deleted posts based on the guidelines set out therein. There were no “hides” based on the whims of jurors who voted to shut down any comments that were perceived to be “smears” against their candidate-of-choice.

Criticism of any and all Dem candidates was not only allowed, but encouraged as being productive political debate. But that criticism had to be grounded in actual statements, behaviour, and positions espoused by the candidates in question, and demonstrated to be fact rather than innuendo, or taken as an opportunity to name-call or launch personal attacks for their own sake.

Parroting right-wing talking points about Democrats – individuals or the Party as a whole – was seen for what it was (i.e. an attempt at disruption by trolls) rather than being embraced as fact or truth. People like Coulter, Limbaugh and Trump were seen for what they were, and not quoted as purveyors of truths that should be heeded.

One’s choice of candidate – Hillary or Obama – was taken for what it was: a different choice among the Democratic contenders. While posters fought vigorously for their personal choice, they did not question the Democratic bona fides of those who chose differently. Those who supported either candidate were not accused of being corporate shills, water-carriers for the 1%, Third Wayers, ConservaDems, Republican-lites, or advocates of the status quo – or any of the other mindless labels that people here now throw around without any cognizance of their actual meaning, or any hesitation to be obnoxious rather than informed.

The biggest difference between now and then was that in 2008, DU was populated by actual Democrats – not those pretending to be so in order to post their crap under the guise of being “one of us”. And even in the worst of the fighting, we never lost sight of the fact that the GOP was the enemy, and not our fellow Party members.

The 2008 primary wars on DU were fought by Democrats who gave as good as they got, who often engaged in some of the bloodiest battles ever waged on a website. But we were ALL Democrats (or the like-minded) here then – and we knew that when the war was over, the overwhelmingly vast majority of us would rally behind the (D) nominee, and set out to GOTV and kick Republican butt.

As DU now stands – more than a year out from the November 2016 election – we have already been told by certain factions that they will NOT vote for the Democratic nominee unless it is their preferred candidate, that they will NOT support the (D) over the (R), and that they would rather see a Republican in the White House for the next four-to-eight years than “sacrifice their principles” by doing what’s right for their fellow citizens and their country rather than for their own personal agenda.

I loved DemocraticUnderground when it stood by its own stated purpose, a sanctuary for Democrats from the endless barrage of RW talking points touted in the MSM day-in and day-out, a place for liberals to gather and discuss the challenges we face as a Party and the goals we hoped to achieve.

What this site has become is just another political message board where people would rather play ”I know you are, but what am I” than engage in intelligent discussion. It is a place where posters who have NEVER said a positive thing about Democrats are touted as being "the true voices of the Party". It is a place where endless whining and negativity are held out as "productive criticism", and Dem-bashing is praised as an example to be emulated.

Ah, DU, I knew you when - and I mourn your passing from the bottom of my soul.

[akbacchus_BC]

67. Nance, thank you for speaking out. Mrs. Clinton and her husband went after

the current President like you would not believe. I have no idea how people can vote for her. Plus, the electorate is tired of the Clintons and the Bushes! Time they retired and go live in Martha's Vineyard.

[JoePhilly]

77. + 1

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Whoa nelly. You have no idea.

But you can do some googling to see for yourself.

But I did find these beauties

[underthematrix]

66. My husband and I voted in the 2008 caucus for Obama and it

was crazy.

[Starry Messenger]

64. It's still early days here.

I was a lurker for the most part until the primary votes actually started in 2008. There was bad shit on both sides. I hope this primary doesn't get as divisive. (FTR, I was an Obama primary supporter in 2007.)

[akbacchus_BC]

65. Just my humble opinion, Mrs. Clinton went on the attack against

the current President when she knew she was losing. Same shit happening now with her and her emails. The Clintons always have controversies.

I think the American public is tired of the Bushes and the Clintons, time for a change! Donald Trump is not an option!

Edited to add, then the PUMAs started and lots of the women went to Old Elm Tree, bashing Mr. Obama. The Elm Tree was a repository of all who did not vote Mrs. Clinton.

[akbacchus_BC]

69. It was divisive. President Obama ignored Mrs. Clinton in her attacks against him.

She is lucky he picked her to be in his administration. And as history will repeat itself, she is still controversial with her emails! People are tired of the Bushes and the Clintons, no wonder Trump is gaining so much momentum, but he is bad news!

[quaker bill]

74. The Kerry / Dean stuff was colorful too.

[fredamae]

76. Yes..I fought like Hell

for Hillary...and then fought like Hell for Obama.

[DrDan]

78. yep - primary season brings out the adolescence in way too many

[mmonk]

79. It had a lot of the same features.

Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 10:05 AM - Edit history (1)

There is something else happening though the Party itself is not recognizing across the nation. Angrier, desperate people.

[davidpdx]

80. I joined right after the first couple of primaries started

and had been a lurker for awhile. It did get very very nasty. More so the further into the primary season. I agree with most that this time around it is going to be worse. Only 14 1/2 months to go though.

[lapfog_1]

81. Much worse then

I've stayed completely out of the candidates debates this time.

Last time I supported Joe Biden... then Obama.

I would have gladly supported Barbara Boxer or Russ Feingold had either of them run.

I just have never been all that excited about Hillary. I think we could do better. I think the Clinton's are both paranoid... mostly because they have stuff to hide AND because the Repukes / right wing nut jobs DO hate them and go after them with a passion. Hence the email flap. I worked for the government for 10 years. I carried two cells phones and had two email accounts and two laptops. One for work, one for personal stuff. Its not that hard AND I don't have a staff or personal assistant. Even today, I still do that. She put all of her email on a private server because she did NOT want to have Republican congress trolling through everything she emailed. She wanted it private and controlled. It was a huge mistake.

If she wins, I will vote for her. But I think we could have a better candidate this time too: Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders (although I have problems with each of them).

Whatever. I will vote and contribute money for Democrats... all Democrats. I hate Republicans... even moderates. If they have a "R" after their name... I really want them to go away and die someplace. I don't love all Democrats, but I will support them anyway.

[NastyRiffraff]

82. Horrible stuff

I agree with almost everyone in this thread. Full disclosure: I was first an Edwards, then a Clinton supporter after Edwards melted down. I VOTED for Obama, but a surprising (to me) number of people on DU said they would not vote if their preferred candidate wasn't the nominee. That's where PUMA came from.

Yes, I think it will get much, much worse. I just hope everyone here ends up voting for the Democratic nominee. Maybe we DO need a third party, but there's no viable one yet.

[ohheckyeah]

83. worse

[treestar]

84. I don't know but I notice a few posters

still angry about it 8 years later. The PUMA's are probably gone as they lost the nomination. A few stuck around to criticize Obama for the way he handled everything in the election and inauguration. Some are still so angry at Hillary from 2008 that I think they'd prefer a Republican to win.

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. I was a Clinton supporter in '08

I still think she could be an adequate president... but this time I don't have to settle.

[bigwillq]

86. Yes

And that's the way it should be.