Burning Man founder on diversity: “Black folks don’t like to camp as much as white folks”

[RandySF]

Burning Man founder Larry Harvey told The Guardian, “I don’t think black folks like to camp as much as white folks” when asked in an interview why there is a lack of racial diversity at the festival.

Harvey also said he would investigate the ultra-rich camps highlighted in a recent New York Times article about the increasingly affluent crowd at the Black Rock City desert fest that began in 1986 on a San Francisco beach.

A recent census found that 87% of “burners” identified as white; 6% identified as Hispanic, 6% as Asian, and 2% as Native Americans, according to The Guardian.

Harvey said he would not set a “racial quota” and added, “I think it’s a little much to expect the organization to solve the problem of racial parity. We do see a fast-increasing influx of Asians, black folks. I actually see black folks out here, unlike some of our liberal critics.”

Here are some of the other many highlights:

On why black people don’t like to camp:

“Remember a group that was enslaved and made to work. Slavishly, you know in the fields. This goes all the way back to the Caribbean scene, when the average life of a slave in the fields was very short. And, so, there’s that background, that agrarian poverty associated with things. Maybe your first move isn’t to go camping. Seriously.”


http://www.salon.com/2015/09/04/burning_man_founders_bizarre_explanation_for_diversity_problem_black_folks_dont_like_to_camp_as_much_as_white_folks/

[EL34x4]

1. Is this a surprise?

I think it's common knowledge that sleeping in tents, in the middle of the desert, isn't really popular in the 'hood.

This is one of those #whitepeopleproblems that cracks me up. "Let's go sleep in the desert! Wait! Where are all the African-Americans? They don't want to camp out with us? Burning Man is racist!"

[TwilightGardener]

2. His goofy reasoning aside, I've been camping in a travel trailer at

campgrounds and state/national parks in a number of states for 13 years, and only met one black family--a minister and his dad/brothers who were on their way to some sort of church convention-type thing. They were in the site next to ours in an RV. Never saw any Asians. Pretty much all campers are older or middle aged white people (such as myself and husband), or Latino. I've concluded that camping is mostly a white/Latino thing. RV and tent included. I don't really know why.

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. I lived in campgrounds for thirteen years

With a husband who built powerlines living in campgrounds from Illinois, to Texas and Florida and a few in between...I have to concur with your observation...and other than a couple groups or families that self identified as "gypsies"....I sure dont remember it being very ethnically diverse at all and I never really knew or understood why.....At least it seemed like a perfectly reasonable way for me to live at the time...didnt know why everone didnt try it!

[TwilightGardener]

6. Fishing, though, is pretty diverse--lots of black/Latino fishermen out there.

Boating, too. Just not camping.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. Yes...I am from South Carolina....And I love

Last edited Sat Sep 5, 2015, 06:24 AM - Edit history (1)

A good canepole fishing rod! I have known many an African American fishermen (and as many women)that would love nothing better than a nice day on the banks catching a croaker or twenty for supper....

[formernaderite]

30. you'd be surprised

I've been boating/fishing in the South and in the Chesapeake bay... there are more black boaters than people think. Not many hispanics, except on fishing piers... in Maryland black boaters prefer pretty nice power boats, while sailing seems to still be a primarily waspy sport... even though sail boats are much cheaper to buy.

[petronius]

8. That's been my observation as well, at least in the West

Maybe the South/Southeast is different. This guy's reason is asinine (and I'm not sure I'd call Burning Man camping), but I've long noticed an absence of African-Americans in the backcountry; outside of the occasional Boy Scout, I suspect I've met zero.

I imagine it's a question of exposure and family connections. For example, I learned my love of the wilderness and had my first experiences in my (mostly-)white suburban Boy Scout troop, led by white suburban dads. When I went to larger Boy Scout gatherings, I met a lot of people who were white and suburban, with relatively few exceptions. If you don't grow up with those connections, I doubt camping/backpacking is a likely choice of a new hobby...

[TwilightGardener]

11. Maybe. Going out to the woods or lake was always presented to me as the ideal way to

spend time when I was a kid, and I absorbed that--although my parents weren't themselves campers or avid hikers, they liked to fish. You had to have a purpose out there, and that purpose was catching fish, dammit.

[hunter]

3. Dumb Ass.

My parents are artists, retired from their day jobs to be artists full time.

Me and my siblings were taught to find our own art and sometimes we are fortunate to live our art every day. I'm not hostile to Burning Man, but I can't afford it, nor do I need it. I live my art every day.

I have a problem with the gentrification of places, the boring wealthy people displacing those who have less, displacing the very people who made a place attractive to those dull affluent people who displace them.

Most of the communities I lived in as a child have been destroyed by clueless mostly white people with money. Any art the moneyed people have is often affect, stage dressing, covering up some emptiness in their own souls.

In many ways Burning Man is the same.

I don't need any special place to let my wild out. It's with me wherever I go.

[snagglepuss]

18. /\/\this/\/\

[KittyWampus]

20. What a nice, short essay. It made my day reading it.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. I can only think of half a dozen black people I know who I would consider "outdoorsy"

And two of them are Jamaican and one is British.

It seems like something easily over-thought.

[Nye Bevan]

9. "Why don't black people camp?"

Holidays under canvas just don't seem to appeal to Brits from ethnic minorities. But why?

Do I look like a camper to you?" splutters my friend Kiren. And I have to admit, her blow-dried hair and impeccable nails don't scream "tent-lover". What about Anna who grew up in Macclesfield, a stone's throw from the Peak District? "Why would I?" she demands, puzzled. Amal, meanwhile, has never even considered slumming it in a tent.

Camping may have thrown off its Peruvian socks image and become as fashionable as vintage clothes and cupcakes, but not everyone is enchanted. The few times I have been to a campsite, I've always been one of the only non-white faces around. And while my white friends will camp anywhere – campsites, festivals, literary events – my non-white friends are not convinced.

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2010/jul/09/black-people-camp-holidays

It seems that he is correct (or at least agrees with The Guardian).

[shanti]

10. I guess he's never been to any reggae festivals

[struggle4progress]

12. A big "Burning Man" may not be the friendliest image for AAs who know their US history

[NightWatcher]

22. I think we may have found a thread winner

I know it might not be PC, but that was funny and when I read it, my inner voice sounded like Richard Pryor was saying it.

[smirkymonkey]

13. I'm a white person, born and raised in upstate NY.

I hate camping. I think its probably a wise decision to avoid it, because basically, it kind of sucks. Nothing wrong with not liking camping.

[redwitch]

23. "My idea of camping is when room service is late."

I don't know who said this but it sums up camping for me.

[smirkymonkey]

26. LOL! I'm with you. If there is no room service or

daily clean up, it's not worth leaving the comfort of your own home. Frankly, I think anyone who avoids camping is very wise.

I have done it, it was a nightmare as a child, and as an adult I am sure I would hate it even more. I like my comfort.

[Starry Messenger]

14. Yes, We Camp, and if You Don’t, Here’s What You’re Missing

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/07/yes_black_people_do_go_camping.html

Black people probably have more sense than call a week of picking alkali sand out of your butt for hundreds of dollars "camping."

(Starry--long-time Burnerhater).

[Initech]

15. I am a white male who *HATES* camping.

Really, my brother got married in the mountains last year and the ceremony and the reception were fun. What wasn't (at least for someone like me) was the outdoors part.

[alphafemale]

16. I would also shun poor hygiene choices in a huge crowd

I object to "Burning Man" being called camping.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. I was the minority in the minority

But my dad was a southerner who grew up playing in the woods, hunting, fishing and . . . Swimming. Fast forward post his military service -

Famous last words from jag to her father -

"Um, I'm not very comfortable."

I hated it as a kid and my idea of camping now is a boutique hotel without down pillows or a 24 hour news channel.

Plot twist - my husband is a juried working artist but he gets frustrated with people who want to live the life but not do the work.

[Stellar]

31. LOL...kind of reminds me of Richard Pryor...in a clean way.

beware of his language if you watch. - - - >eta: umm never mind, it embarrasses me.

[marmar]

19. I'm black, and my idea of "roughing it" is a Red Roof Inn.

[AngryAmish]

21. Camping is a cultural artifact of German nature movements

It really picked up steam in the 19th century, but going into natural areas, nudism, exercise was a German cultural movement. Like a lot of german ideas it got tossed into the Progressive movement and Theodore Roosevelt started national parks.

Hippyism is another offshoot, with the communing with nature, body worship/acceptence, communal living.

Black folks generally lived a seperate culture than these folks.

[Igel]

24. Strange.

The stats bear the guy out. If you look at racial diversity figures for state and national parks AfAm families are vastly underrepresented. The US government for a while had an outreach program and for a while what advertising they did vastly overrepresented minorities. It's like some college brochures where the study body is < 15% black/Latino but the brochure carefully shows at least 50% black/Latino.

Somehow I get the impression you think that the campground stats are a racist fact. They're not. Facts aren't racist, but can be used in a racist manner.

The Burning Man guy even said "I think," an assertion of opinion or belief, but somebody elevated it to the level of an assertion of fact. That's bad editorial practice--common for Salon and some partisan sites, to be sure, but a bad practice. In this case it's true. But seemingly offensive.

However, then you try to justify the fact that seems to have been offensive and make excuses for it.

I bet if you look at fenugreek seed purchases in the US you'll find a racial skew, too.

[The Road Runner]

25. Could it be an economic issue?

Going camping is a cheap vacation...but it does require one to own a vehicle to get there, puchase camping equipment, etc. People living under socio-economic oppression may lack the resources to take a camping trip (much less travel to the middle of the desert for Burning Man).

I dunno...just a thought.

[Brickbat]

27. Burning Man is about camping? Huh.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. Black folks also don't like patronizing comments from white folks.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Among other things, camping was marketed to white people as part of automobile sales by among

other people, Henry Ford. He made those charcoals from Kingsford to use when you went 'car camping'. Ford and tire tycoon Firestone along with Edison and others took yearly, highly promoted camping trips around the country. Tin can tourism.

So all of that was aimed squarely at whites. 'This is your country, go sleep outside in the most beautiful parts of it using our cars and tires.'
Most people who camp do so because they were raised camping. And so it goes. This is really exactly how it goes. Not just with camping.

[Kurska]

32. Are we really pretending burning man is mostly about camping?

Burning man is heavily avant garde self expression, which is a indeed a kind of of more bourgeois white person thing.
It is also heavily about new age spirituality, which is again more of a bourgeois white person thing.
Also lets not pretend it doesn't have a drug history, but generally more psychedelic drugs, which are also a more of a bourgeois white person thing.

Of course all these thing appeal to many black people, but just at a lower rate than white people, at least I think that is a self-evident conclusion.

[lunasun]

33. 'Bizarre explanation' True dat !

druggie talk

[Exultant Democracy]

34. % isn't the whole story, Burning man isn't one of these "white spaces" like the Napa wine train

Just around half my family has gone to burning man, some more than a few times, and never felt out of place.

I think the festival founders statement came out in a pretty unfortunate way, and while I think there is some truth about overall popularity of camping in black america, it is also pretty dubious to link that to who shows up to burning man. Even the viral nature of how it is marketed and how the community has grown would point to the founder effect to be the real reason less black people are there.