General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat the fuck is up with all the concern trolling about transgender women using women's...
bathrooms? I can hear the dogwhistle from miles away. Oh and on that note, why the fuck is this bullshit allowed to stand?
On edit: Seriously, what do the trolls want, full body scanners to check for surgical marks? Blood test to check hormone levels? Papers to check legal or medical documentation of transition?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)As once again I don't get where this is coming from.
hunter
(38,322 posts)I don't watch television and that's one reason.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Skittles
(153,171 posts)tired of transphobia on DU
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)DU is a failure when it comes to reducing the amount of bigotry here.
Skittles
(153,171 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)One of the concern trolls was removed after comments in another thread.
But the jury results on his post were
Skittles
(153,171 posts)the real cowards use it as an opportunity to showcase their ignorance
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)In this case, the jury voted to allow an offensive post to remain, but then the poster and his post were removed from DU minutes later. I am not sure how that works.
Skittles
(153,171 posts)whatever the reason, good riddance
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Thanks for the explanation.
Good riddance indeed.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Initech
(100,095 posts)When I first signed on to this forum a post comparing Caitlyn Jenner to Rachel Dolezal would have got you shit canned. Now not only is it acceptable it's practically encouraged.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Since then the nonsense has been non stop.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)and posters are given free reign here.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Fuck if I know other than the simple fact that DU has no real standards other than the silly-ass jury system.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)which allows some degree of privacy.
It was about a locker/shower room, where girls shower and dress. I have seen a lot of concern for Lila, but very little for the other young girls, many of whom may be naive and inexperienced. Their feelings about their own modesty should be considered.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)will not be easily resolved.
Simply telling "the other girls" to deal with it is about as helpful as tellings the Lilas "you have to use the boys locker room - deal with it..."
It's going to be awhile...
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)who had been molested might feel. It would probably trigger all sorts of horrors.
AllFieldsRequired
(489 posts)and disregard for transgender people should not be tolerated here at DU
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)The issue is high school girls and locker/shower rooms.
Have YOU been molested? Serious question. Dismissing the feelings of victims', especially if you don't have a CLUE, shouldn't be tolerated.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Maybe that's not your intent, but your posts seem to fit that narrative a little too neatly.
AllFieldsRequired
(489 posts)allegedly liberal message board.
Very angry
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)WTF!
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Shit like this used to get people banned on DU.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)Because no one cares about victims of molestation.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)trigger all sorts of horrors? If so, that young girl needs help. Maybe she could skip the showering, or have a private place to do so?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)That makes a big difference. I would think that a trans person would not be all that comfortable stripping in a locker room...
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that a trans person should probably change in a closed stall if at all possible. I have no doubt that otherwise, everybody is going to be uncomfortable. The trans person, the other girls, or worse still, the other boys if s/he goes to a boys locker... it's just a mess.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)After all, they're dressing and showering with people they might potentially be attracted to.
But in that case, I think most people would recognize the absurdity of such a restriction.
I agree that it's not necessarily a simple issue - gender variance often isn't. But using the "OMG scary predatory transsexuals" approach is in no way helpful.
Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #250)
Post removed
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Women's bathrooms don't have urinals. They have stalls. The only way she would see said scary penis would be if she peeked into the next stall. If she is doing that, she is probably not too incredibly traumatized in the first place. If she is doing that, she probably needs more help than any public restroom can ever give her. Public restrooms are for bowel and bladder emptying, not therapy.
Behind the Aegis
(53,968 posts)Given the reactions of some after marriage equality and the nonsense that ensued, and the people who almost always seem to pop up in threads about African-American issues, the number of people who make excuses for anti-Semitism, and those who never seem to understand the concerns of women...the thread is clear, it is just a matter of those who can make a difference choose to do so. There isn't always overlap, but in many cases, there sure as fuck is!
JustAnotherGen
(31,839 posts)Following you and Number23 and writing-
What he said
or
What she said
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]This is [font style="font-family:'papyrus','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=5 color=scarlet]Supposed[/font] to be a site for liberal and progressive democrats. But it is flooded with homophobes and transphobes using rightwing arguments[/font]
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)
"infiltrate" (sober version: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7153976)
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Most women don't worry about this. At all.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)TERFs are women who do not think normally.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
They believe a lot of crazy shit. Among their beliefs are that trans women only transition in order to rape and control women. Some TERFs actively advocate FOR violence and harm against trans women.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)There are a lot of crazy people in the world. Why are we giving these people any attention?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)yardwork
(61,690 posts)The only trans bigotry I've seen here are supposedly male posters who are routinely worried that somebody is going to grab their guns and diss their white penises.
There are trolls who pretend to be radical feminists here from time to time but they get banned pretty quickly.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Notice, she's still around, and even comments on these threads too. Even linked to a TERF anti-trans hate site.
She hasn't really changed her position either, she disguises it as concern for the safety of women in bathrooms.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)I think you are being disingenuous. The trans phobia here comes from the usual suspects - conservatives.
Response to yardwork (Reply #136)
Post removed
yardwork
(61,690 posts)I sincerely doubt that the poster you just referenced is a radical feminist. I have never seen any evidence to support that.
There are plenty of bigoted conservative dipshits on DU, I agree with that.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)I fully support trans women and fully support their right to use women's restrooms because trans women are women and there are safety concerns associated with women being in secluded areas with strange men. In busy restrooms, unisex is fine with me.
We're going to have to assume that people are in the correct restrooms, there's no other way it can be done. We absolutely cannot be unfair to trans women because there are rapists on the planet. That's ridiculous.
But, the way people completely smear and assassinate the character of posters who do not precisely agree with them on the issue is astounding to me. I cannot stand the constant name calling and accusations of hate flung on every person who does not adopt the EXACTLY correct opinion on every topic that relates in any way to transgender persons.
The advocates on this issue seem to be unwilling to even consider why a person may have a different view. There are no different views. It's think EXACTLY what I think or you are a waste of life bigot piece of shit scum. I can't take it anymore, I'm hiding the word. ...first hide ever for me.
randys1
(16,286 posts)someone who wants to see Trans people not treated equally or well or decently.
Yep, I dont give one shit about those opinions.
Just like I dont give one shit about the opinion of someone who thinks Michael Brown needed shooting or Trayvon Martin asked for it.
Not one lick or shit for those folks and I dont even want to talk to them.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)People who think Michael Brown asked for it and Trayvon deserved it? ? What a ginormous and non-sequitur leap from the point of my post. Good lord, it's like hyenas feeding on allied hyenas out of pure boredom.
Who suggested that trans persons should not be treated equally? Who suggested that the opinions of those who think that should be considered? This is ridiculous.
randys1
(16,286 posts)treatment didnt deserve ridicule, I say they do.
As much as possible
This is not complicated.
There is right and wrong.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)i.e.
I dont hate people over 6 feet tall but what is all this anger towards people who do?
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)Two questions keep being conflated.
1. Should trans women be allowed to use women's bathrooms? DU has overwhelming answered yes. I have literally not seen one poster say that trans women should not use women's bathrooms.
2. Should cis men be allowed to use women's bathrooms? DU is divided on this with the posters who believe in unisex bathrooms hurling every single horrible insult, smear, and name at those who do not support fully unisex bathrooms that they can possibly think of. Other posters are simply pretending that everyone against unisex bathrooms are against trans women using women's bathrooms, which is plainly false and dishonest.
It's not a question of whether trans persons should be treated equally, virtually EVERYONE agrees they should. It's precisely adopt my exact opinion that unisex bathrooms are best or else you are a hate mongering piece of shit who's probably happy that Trayvon and Michael Brown were murdered. It is absolutely completely and totally ridiculous.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)i haven't seen any sincere discussion of unisex bathrooms here today at all.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)Do you think they're all talking about trans men?
Men means men, including trans men.
Women means women, including trans women.
The people are discussing men in women's bathrooms and getting offended if women don't want that. Trans women aren't men, obviously.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)I am in support of unisex bathrooms and never have "hurled every single horrible insult, smear and name at those who do not support fully unisex bathrooms".
"I have literally not seen one poster say that trans women should not use women's bathrooms. "
Well, they CAN use the women's bathrooms if they have papers saying they have had hormone or surgery. THAT has been posted. If they haven't had hormone therapy or surgery or don't have a doctor's note saying so, they can't use women's bathroom. Surely you didn't miss that?
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)but enough for it to be ridiculous.
I saw an extremely small number of people advocating for proof of some sort. Of course, that's just not practical and it's too much of a burden on trans women...and it's just pretty rude.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)It's good to know these fringe groups exist. One doesn't need to look for TERFs. They make their presence known.
I don't have much faith in law enforcement in certain parts of this country to advocate for our trans brothers and sisters....
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)It's your choice to remain willfully ignorant to reality, though.
kcr
(15,318 posts)Just as there is concern trolling over transgender women using bathrooms, there seems to be some concern trolling popping up in these threads over "TERFS". It's meant to start another "gender war" and bash feminists.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)The post to which I responded has been edited. It used to say "many women."
kcr
(15,318 posts)Same old, same old. ETA just saw the other sub-thread in this post, confirms my suspicions.
I am angered by all transphobic people. I have posted a lot about TERFs on these threads. I admit a bias about the TERF subject as it is something I discovered recently and still has me reeling, but I am no where near a concern troll. I can see where that may be assumed by my posting, but it is most definitely an incorrect assumption.
kcr
(15,318 posts)TERF is one of those terms that sends up a big red flag to me, and it isn't just at DU. There were no TERFs anywhere in these threads. There was no reason to bring up TERFS in more than one thread. Thus, concern trolling.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)I can see where you are coming from. I cannot speak for anyone else who used the term. I can only speak for myself. Whether you choose to understand my intent is up to you.
kcr
(15,318 posts)That's just my humble opinion, though. Just the term Radical Feminism, the "RF" in TERF is loaded enough nowadays. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to understand why slinging that around wouldn't start off flame wars, especially if you're using it in a negative context.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)I do see where you are coming from.
Response to MisterP (Reply #11)
Proud Liberal Dem This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)They believe that trans women are advocates of the patriarchy and exist only to oppress women. They also believe that men want to control and rape women sooooo bad that they will transition into women in order to "infiltrate" and control and rape. Their beliefs are nonsensical, but they shouldn't be brushed off because these people advocate harm to trans women and some actively doxx them.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)which, mercifully, just ended.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Very sad.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,426 posts)Like, beyond reasoning with insane
First off, it is not "a lot". What you are talking about is a few radicals, who perpetuate a lot of utter nonsense. But I don't believe they are the majority, nor are they the bigger threat to transwomen. Men are the bigger threat. So the activists are shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of talk. All it does is alienate people (i.e. women) who should be natural allies. (Not the radical feminists. I write those people off as completely off their rockers). I am not saying that women can't be bigots when it comes to transwomen, of course they can and are, certainly. But of course it is much easier to rail against bigots on Twitter or wherever than to change the structure of society.
I am personally sick of the touchy-feely nonsense that seems to be in all movements these days, from feminism to environmentalism. "Sacred spaces" or "sisterhood" what a bunch of twaddle. The real work is integrating society so that it is safe for everyone.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)"Sacred space" and "sisterhood." They are not a majority, however they are very loud and some of them engage in behaviors that put trans women in danger.
The TERF I knew was a pagan and frequently spoke against trans women stating they cannot be allowed in to the sacred spaces of blood mysteries and womb mysteries of "real women."
yardwork
(61,690 posts)There are a lot more people who agree with Kim Davis than followers of this very fringe paranoid belief system you describe.
I know some young people who are Communists. They believe that North Korea is the best place to live in the world. They spend a lot of time arguing with other types of communists. Fringe people tend to do that - lots of in-fighting, not much interface with the rest of us.
Half the country seems prepared to vote for Donald Trump. Don't you think they are a much bigger threat?
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)It is the active role they take in harming other human beings. Small fringe group or not, it's immoral to do what some of them do.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Intentionally seeking out trans people to doxx them, harass them, and place them in harm's way is a bit more than "all this drama."
yardwork
(61,690 posts)What about all the right wing bigots who are actually attacking and raping and murdering trans people? Don't they count? Or is it just the TERFS?
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)I don't know why you think this is one crazy person I know. The TERFs count as much as the RW bigots. They are cut from the same cloth.
Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #179)
yardwork This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)I am not biased against women. You seem extremely, extremely confused. Can you explain my bias against women? Have you read my other posts?
I AM a strong, progressive, and uppity woman.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Meanwhile there are self-identified non-progressive males all over DU today picking on trans women. However, you keep urging us to ignore them and focus on TERFs.
I have not seen one radical feminist in any of these threads. Why this fixation on them instead of on the obvious right wingers?
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)In your other post, you noted there is a history of that happening on DU.
We have both been responding on these posts all day and I *have* been giving crap to the males as well. I have zero tolerance for transphobia no matter who it comes from.
I do not believe that transphobia is limited to radfems at all nor am I urging anyone to focus on them. I admit that my personal experiences come into play here because I learned about TERFs this year and have been horrified they exist. I am not the only one discussing them, though. In my responses to you, I am not urging you to focus on them alone. Your responses to my posts seemed dismissive, as if TERFs are a figment of the imagination and I was trying to clear things up.
I do want focus on anyone transphobia, whether they are right-wing, MRA, fundies, or TERFs. I believe these people need to be exposed and invalidated. I am certainly not against women one bit.
I think there has been confusion and miscommunication of intent on both of our sides here.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)It's a sore subject. I take your word for your sincerity. Looks like we agree.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I figured out what TERFs is from conversation above.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)The trolls are having a field day. According to them, the only real transphobes are radical feminists.
Actual real live right-wing bigots making these posts aren't really the source of transphobia. It's the mysterious TERFS!
MADem
(135,425 posts)If you need to pee, come on in. If you're pooping to beat the band, a courtesy flush will not go amiss!
As we used to say as kids "Hope everything comes out all right!" Ha ha...!
I don't understand this attempt at pot-stirring.
I've lived in places where "unisex" toilets worked just fine. There's just no need for people to act like battle lines need to be drawn around the act of having a wee or taking a crap. It's utter foolishness, and I hope that the admins and MIRT would take the time to look for the hammy hands of trolls in boosting this issue.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)There are radfems who are transphobes. That is a simple fact. Not all of them are, which is why the "TERF" term is used as a distinction. They are just as bad as the right wing bigots. Explaining their existence does not negate the existence of RW nutjobs.
I am unclear why you think people who are discussing these types of radfems are trolls.
You and I seem to be on the same page regarding transphobia in these threads, so I am confused when it comes to your replies regarding TERFs.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)It's happening here.
The right wing bigots are right wing bigots. They aren't feminists. The people starting push polls and making bigoted posts today here in DU are not feminists.
I see where you are coming from.
Please note, that none of that was MY personal intention in my posts.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and it's been at least as many men as women doing this.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)I noticed some posts (possibly now deleted - I think one had his account revoked) with statements like, "I am a father, I am scared that my daughters can go to bathrooms with men."
I asked my husband about the issue. He has no concerns about his daughter sharing a restroom with trans women.
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)a few women insist that "sisterhood" is a sacred space that transwomen and bis are trying to "infiltrate"
I'm a feminist who understands gender issues. A transgender woman doesn't threaten who I am as a woman.
I have to admit, as an older woman who grew up in the days when homosexuality, transgender issues and other things weren't discussed (I'd guess my parents would have died before they allowed any talk like that at the dinner table), I have spent a good amount of time thinking about various things and seeing how it relates to me.
And I have no issues with gay people, or transgender people, or asexual people, or whatever. I understand there are going to be some wide-reaching changes made to try to fit everyone into a civil society with as little disruption as possible. Toes are going to be stepped on, but if we be good to each other, we'll work it out.
I try to put myself in other people's shoes and imagine how they feel. What does it mean to look like a man, physically, but really be female inside? Or, vice versa. It takes some adjustment, but my thought is that the world is a wondrous place, Mother Nature is awesome, and who am I to judge?
I think it would be good for schools to talk with girls if they are going to be faced with a situation like having what seems to be a boy in their locker room. Discuss the ramifications of being transgender, and of being accepting. Accommodations can be made for the transgender student to have privacy without feeling segregated and humiliated. I image the student understands how difficult it is for everybody to transition into a more accepting world, better than most, really.
No one's fears should be dismissed, but fear can often be mitigated with a little effort. If there are students who really can't be in the same locker room (victims of molestation, strict religious issues or severe modesty), then classes can be switched upon request.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 10, 2015, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)
also people have a sort of fairness within themselves, so there's a positive social and intrinsic value to having been oppressed (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027153085): recall that the Jews, Hutu, Afrikaners, and Serbs' heinous experiences did not render them understanding a few decades down the road, and each atrocity was justified by past atrocities against the oppressor, because of the said massive value I'm talking about; this produces jealousy and division rather than solidarity
make no mistake, there's also a LOT of cashflow to perpetuating jealous, exclusivist views of things--to the point of seeing oneself as manning a besieged fortress
http://www.vancouversun.com/McMartin+barricades+students+arms+over+centre/6669021/story.html
there's a lot of YouTube interviews with these raging asshairs (impolite Canadians?!) getting angry that 0.55% of the budget might go to the bedonged--Victorian attitudes are "hegemonic" in academese because "both sides" of an issue are debating entirely within its framework
maybe it's like Quebecois activism--the more they get, the more they need to keep the movement in the face of improving real conditions: "woman-born woman-only" "safe-space" concerts are the equivalent of the OQLF saying you can't have apostrophes on deli signs or "pasta" on Italian menus because they're "not French" and putting tape over microwave buttons that said "On/Off"; and 90% of the group in question doesn't actually follow this
because of how bonkers it is
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Anyone who wants to pee standing up can use the urinal room. Every one else uses the stall room.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Heck, that went out with acid washed jeans.
uponit7771
(90,348 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)the stalls seem much simpler. The urinals and stalls idea isn't so bad. The bathrooms at the VA are unisex. I haven't been molested or harassed in them and I attract the worst kinds of stalkers and obnoxious assholes, normally. I don't get the obsession on DU over public restrooms. They never bring it up unless it is another chance to bash the transgender community. I don't see any of them asking that rapists not be allowed in the women's public bathrooms. That would solve the problem. Leave the transgender community out of it. They aren't transgender to harass women. It is a made up conspiracy. The people obsessed with whether or not someone in the next stall in a women's public restroom is transgender all need to buy a fainting couch and carry it everywhere they go, because they are entirely too sheltered and bigoted.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)The P-Mate is a portable urinating device that allows women to urinate standing up whenever they need to, without losing their dignity and more effectively angle urine samples into testing cups. Easy and hygienic, the device is made from recycled flat-packed cardboard and permits women to direct the urine stream comfortably instead of blindly over a toilet.
You can even write your name in the snow!
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I have always wanted to write my name in the snow.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)My friend camps A LOT and got something called a "She-wee," which is a plastic thing that a woman can use in order to pee standing up. According to her, it does not work well enough to write your name in the snow.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Why would I be even checking someone out in the bathroom. I have no idea or interest in what sex a stranger in a bathroom is. I avoid all eye contact while peeing in public. Pooping is even less of a social event. Although I'm pretty sure certain fetishists might find both bodily functions more interesting than I do but I've never run into that issue of anyone being that intrusive in my 65 years of peeing and pooping. I think there are clubs for that, it's not something you run into at the gym or mall bathroom. So I really don't mind who uses the bathroom.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)in many other areas and activities as well. The US is not even close to the top of the 'keep the women separate' list. We have entire regions that count the entire body of a woman as 'pee pee parts' and enforce them to be entirely covered, don't we?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)You know, with public baths and such.
The whole "God Bless America" line we're spoon fed from politicians.
There are preachers that have claimed storms were punishment for a parade. There's a general FEAR that everything is going to fall apart at any moment if we allow people too much freedom.
The term we used in the 60s was "uptight".
It sounded nicer than "tightass".
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)gender trolling. Other trolls/dumbasses are following the lead now. Which is sad.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)at concerts. The poor guys hugging the urinals so the women don't see their penis. It's a double-standard that also stinks of bigotry.
MADem
(135,425 posts)and likely can't see it through bright yellow eyes as they dash, single-mindedly, for a toilet!!
They're trying to relieve themselves...and stadium and large venue toilets are absurdly SEXIST when it comes to allocation of facilities for men and women. That's where your "double standard" comes in. Women are not formed to be able to use urinals without bringing along a "device." Stupid architects, for years, continued to provide the same number of stalls for women and men, along with urinals for men as well. This leads to a line going to the women's facilities at any event attended in fairly equal numbers.
I've been in Japanese facilities that were unisex. The appropriate thing to do, regardless of gender, is to AVERT ONE's EYES.
It's not that hard to give a person a little space.
I have made a dash for the men's room in an emergency and penises were the last thing on my mind.
We were recently at an event where the ladies room line was looooong, yet the men's room had no line. The ladies room had 3 stalls. I asked my husband how many stalls the guys had. 3 stalls, plus the row of urinals. So, they had more options.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)in a bathroom with a picture of a person wearing a dress on it.
That person is now very defensive about his overt transphobic bigotry and is out to prove that he is not a bigot by doubling down on his bigotry.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Suddenly, transphobia is not being perpetuated by right-wingers, but a tiny and somehow supremely powerful group of radical feminists, sometimes described as "most women." The TERFs are taking over! Run for the hills!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and there are strong feelings on both sides. As you choosing to start another thread on this issue demonstrates.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)It shows a lot about you. Very revealing. And very revealing of a lot of names of posters who lurk here and never post except to vote in polls. Friends of yours?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And while internet polls are of course never fully scientific, they do reveal quite a lot about the opinions of the community.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)In a push poll, large numbers of voters are contacted briefly (often less than 60 seconds), and little or no effort is made to collect and analyze response data. Instead, the push poll is a form of telemarketing-based propaganda and rumor mongering, masquerading as a poll. Push polls may rely on innuendo or knowledge gleaned from opposition research on an opponent.
Push polls are generally viewed as a form of negative campaigning.[1] Indeed, the term is commonly (and confusingly) used in a broader sense to refer to legitimate polls that aim to test negative political messages.[2] Future usage of the term will determine whether the strict or broad definition becomes the most favored definition. However, in all such polls, the pollster asks leading questions or suggestive questions that "push" the interviewee towards adopting an unfavourable response towards the political candidate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)bigots are by nature unreasonable. The theory that they should be educated is rank bullshit.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)That poster's own definition demonstrates exactly why that push poll was a push poll. Can't help but laugh.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)because all it shows is that a few hundred people in NH prefer Bernie. And a "couple of dozen" would be 24.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)you're delusional beyond hope.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and are not strictly scientific. But they are illuminating in that the results give a broad reflection of the community's opinion.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)By comparison, 100 or so votes is extremely representative.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Neither is representative. Neither is a statistical sample.
1939
(1,683 posts)What makes it not statistically valid is that the sample is "self selected" because it only represents people who chose to vote. A randomly selected sample of 100 DUers would be a pretty good sample of the whole.
Ms. Toad
(34,085 posts)because of the push poll nature of the questions. To say anything meaningful about how DUers feel, the options need to include at least one (besides "other" that each DU member can reasonably say - "Sounds about right."
This poll had no options for anyone who is supportive of allowing all women to use the women's room, without proof that they are not really men intending to use the bathroom to gain access to women for evil purposes.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It's nasty, scummy and bigoted bullshit, constructed for your jollies at the expense of others. I would no more participate in such bullying than I'd sit down on a hot stove. This is for those of you who are backward and religious to stress over.
I think these posts are part of the coordinated efforts of the hard core religious right, setting the stage for Francis to come attack LGBT persons while his fans all cheer and drool over that old fucker. Kim Davis had Tony Perkins with her, Tony was part of Francis' 3 day planning conference in Rome in November. This is all one big piece of theater, and some of you are volunteering to carry pitchforks in the crowd scenes.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)Gay folks it is Trans or Black or Muslim, etc.
The hatred for non heterosuxuals and Trans folk is very deep, extreme hatred.
NOBODY who says they love the sinner but hate the sin, loves the person, NOT ONE person who says that actually means it.
And no, it is not a sin, etc.
I come across them all day long elsewhere, and they all have the same thing in common, hatred.
It is hard not to hate people who make it their hobby to hate everybody different from them, teaparty, but yes.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)I recall a poster being banned by Skinner for making an off handed ignorant transphobic post that was far milder than many posts in this thread.
The jury system isn't handling this well.
randys1
(16,286 posts)that told it like it is as to race and us white folks, but almost every time I do that I get hidden.
I may not know much about the Black person's experience since I am not Black, but as a white person I know a whole hell of a lot about how racist us whites are.
Notice in that poll done by the 'concerned" citizen and bathrooms that the people i would expect to be ignorant bigots voted with him but most of those who voted with him, those names are not familiar to me at all and I am here ALL the time.
so....
yardwork
(61,690 posts)That's all I've got.
Maybe the truth is worse. Half the country agrees with Donald Trump. Think about what that means.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)And also illuminating in that they often illustrate who cowers behind implication, polls, and fluff... rather than simply stating a premise.
However, I do realize that directly stating what we may believe will often advertise us in a light we'd rather not admit to.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)The 50% refers, of course, to those who want to take a position.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]In fact, many of them were the MOST critical of option 2 and 3.
Saying it is divided 50/50 is a mis-characterization at best. [/font]
Ms. Toad
(34,085 posts)Receive a significant comments from people pointing out how transphobic your poll is who did not vote in your poll, and characterize us as "people who don't really care, one way or the other."
That's insulting.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If you abstain, then you didn't vote, so we have no clue what you think.
If everybody who abstains wanted to vote for Hilary in the election, but instead trump wins, guess what. Trump still won.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Abstaining is specifically voting for none of the choices. It is literally neither a vote for nor against.[/font]
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/abstain
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Voting this particular way is meant to invalidate the vote and make it where no-side can claim a majority position.
In this case (134 votes total, 50 for option one, 9 for option two, 50 for option three, and 25 abstaining) there were enough DUer's not voting that it could easily turn either choice 1 or 2 into a clear majority. We can't even say for sure if support is even or not.
Thus no side can make any claim beyond that option two is a minority position on DU...which was the entire point for many abstainers. [/font]
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)
and not select an option. This is not because I don't care one way or another. It was because that poster's silly poll was obviously full of transphobia.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Sorry about that.
I edited the wording.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,085 posts)I would no more participate in that poll than I would any other push poll.
The poll that permitted transwomen to use the bathroom referred to them as biological men - an incredibly offensive way to refer to them, and imposed bigoted beliefs about what makes a real transwoman by suggesting that in order to be granted access to women's bathrooms they would need to have medical credentials which are well beyond the financial reach of at least a sizeable minority of transwomen - and not an option others would choose.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,085 posts)because all it does is validate hatred and fear of transwomen.
The poll only includes transphobic options. But people vote in polls for all sorts of reasons, including to keep the least bad option from winning. I am not going to characterize people who chose to vote in such a an offensive poll.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)turns out one side of the 50 was right, the other side were blazing assholes.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)was very poorly worded, with transphobic language used liberally throughout.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Bye neglects to read the responses in his stupid thread. The majority were calling out the obvious transphobia in that poll.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Quit wasting extra building space on 'assigned gender' bathrooms, give everybody stalls.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Good luck. As a guy, thank goodness I didn't have to do anything buy urinate because I certainly would not want to sit down on the toilets. I think it's probably fine for small areas but in busy areas without urnals, I don't know of many women would would want to use a stall.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)They are almost always wet, with pee, and other substances I have never attempted to identify as my gag reflex is hyper enough, as is. It's not pretty. I can say that much. Public restrooms are just that, used by the public and not routinely clean very often at all.
I pity the hall monitor asshole who asks to see my privates to "prove" I'm female when I gotta go. There are three things smart people do not place themselves between me and; food, bed, the toilet.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)They take up less space, use less water, facilitate quicker turnover, and lets be honest, I don't want to lift a dirty toilet seat in a public restroom when I have to pee.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Just lengthen the sides and throw a door on with a sign on the front.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)the entry door and the stall, that "private but public" space.
People who point out that male perverts have always been able to enter and even attack women in public bathrooms are quite correct, but they don't realize the point they are making, to wit: That many women (apparently none of whom belong to DU) already feel vulnerable in such places. Rational thought and legalities and political correctness and EVEN COMMON HUMANITY have NOTHING TO DO with how one FEELS.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)Most people are raped by people they know.
I don't understand this special concern about bathrooms. Women's stall doors lock. Women's bathrooms tend to be busy places, lots of people coming and going.
JustAnotherGen
(31,839 posts)All of a sudden 'rape culture' is a 'thing' at DU - when it is highly unlikely a woman peeing next to me is a rapist.
Notice - I wrote 'woman peeing'.
Why is this so damn hard for people to get?
yardwork
(61,690 posts)I dunno.
JustAnotherGen
(31,839 posts)Yet someone - somewhere - is telling them to look in a mirror and say "I is smart."
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Ignoring a real safety problem in favor of a largely imaginary one is bigoted because it favors the perceived risks to cis people over a very real safety risk to trans people.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)yardwork
(61,690 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,239 posts)for not cleaning up the obvious bigot/racist trash a long time ago.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)They just want to sit back and collect checks.
Instead of curating, they throw up a half-baked jury system that lets bigots slide, while spanking anyone who reacts to them.
No wonder the place is so fucking toxic.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I just read the reply and vote. How would anyone know sex or race?
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I'm taking about not hiding posts that are racist, misogynist, homophobic, transphobic or otherwise hurtful/harmful to minorities. And then not often hiding well-deserved lashing out at the bigots for being "uncivil".
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)I know a certain poster who needs to be served a surf-n-TERF pizza.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Iggo
(47,561 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)That being white cis straight is the powerful default, and it is just the "freaks" who need laws made to control them. It's bigotry.
onecaliberal
(32,880 posts)Response to Humanist_Activist (Original post)
Post removed
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Not sure why DU welcomes bigots.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)are the ones who post in support of free transition surgery for transgender individuals. I hate that kind.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)to troll liberal discussion boards. I would hate to see what those kinds of bigots are like in real life.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)The worst kind are the ones who claim to support transgender people while wanting them to provide proof they are allowed to use the bathroom of their choice. But you already knew that.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Because they are deluded into thinking they are sympathetic.
Genitalia is not gender.
Also, you are apparently utterly ignorant about the downsides and complications of those surgeries.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)something like that.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)of course he's conveniently ignoring the fact that a significant percentage of Catholic priests have a terrible, proven child rape record, unlike transgendered people using restrooms.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Problematic: "transgendered"
Preferred: transgender
The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."
http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender
Try to stick to "transgender".
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)procedures to pee be lecturing anyone here about anything related to transgender issues?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Many DUers are still familiarizing themselves with the terminology.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you're up to four hides mostly because you keep calling transwomen as "men".
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Once they review what he's been doing since like the day after he got here, I'm sure a ban will quickly follow.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)jackass who've hung around for far tool long?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Men with women's genitalia too.
Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #106)
Post removed
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)and she may have a dick, but probably isn't "swinging" it in the locker room. It's far more likely to cause discomfort when a transwoman uses the men's locker room, dick visible or not.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)It's the idea of completely co-ed locker rooms - taking something to the extreme - that is just plain ridiculous.
As if I want to walk around in a towel, drink a beverage, do my hair and makeup and chat with my girlfriend while five guys are strutting around in low hanging towels. ugh
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)yardwork
(61,690 posts)Do you really think that a transgender person - who already has to listen to transphobic remarks everywhere they go, not to mention contending with irrational fears and phobias of ignorant cluck heads, not to mention contending with the very real possibility of being beat up or even raped by random bigoted assholes, is likely to call attention to themselves in the women's locker room by "swinging their dick?" Really?
They are far more likely to be the victim of assault.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)irisblue
(33,013 posts)JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 9, 2015, 05:28 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: poor choice of words, intended to offend. Could have used a better word choice and still got his point across.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Bigotry, in all it's forms, has to be stamped out. This is my tiny part in that effort.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Uh, yeah ... offensive and bigoted covers it
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see how this is an offensive post. Its a legit question.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: "swinging dick" really tacky HIDE irisblue
MisterP
(23,730 posts)written by LGBTs
(gay guys can of course be caddish and cloddish, can of course bait and shame and exclude, especially in the consequence-free madhouse of the Internet--but they're more worried about offending hypothetical LGBTs than real ones)
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)with many. I'm fine with transgender women using the women's bathroom. They certainly wouldn't feel safe in the men's room!
However, it is the extreme reaction to this issue that some are advocating - doing away with single sex bathrooms and gym locker rooms that is causing most of the uproar.
There's a difference between having two completely private rooms at Starbucks and a person can use either room, and sharing a locker room at the gym where women walk around in towels, do their hair, their makeup, sit around and chat, etc. I would be extremely uncomfortable with men in there.
When some insist that we must go completely co-ed in order to make things easier for transgender folks, they've gone too far because they aren't considering the feelings of how everyone else will feel. Many women WILL NOT feel comfortable alone in a locker room with five guys. That's just how a lot of women feel, especially women who have been raped or molested.
What in the shit happened to common sense?
yardwork
(61,690 posts)The cis-gender people don't even realize that a transgender person is there. You and I both know that nothing that bothers the vast majority of people will ever be instituted.
This is just a bunch of fear mongering. Picking on transgender people is shameful. They are a tiny minority Who are often the victims of crimes, not the perpetrators.
Really, people should be ashamed of how they're acting. There are not hordes of transgender people trying to rape women in bathrooms or locker rooms.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)the ONLY ones. Reread what you just responded to:
"There's a difference between having two completely private rooms at Starbucks and a person can use either room, and sharing a locker room at the gym where women walk around in towels, do their hair, their makeup, sit around and chat, etc. I would be extremely uncomfortable with men in there."
Whose "un-comfortableness" should carry the most weight?
Yes, perhaps people should be ashamed, but you cannot simply discount one persons feelings over another - even if you think the one is being silly...
yardwork
(61,690 posts)The cis-gender women won't be inconvenienced. They'll make sure of that.
Do you think we might be able to set aside a dark corner for the transgender person, or should they be humiliated further by being forced into the men's locker room? Some people would say that they don't even deserve to live.
I thought I had seen some bigotry and ignorance on DU, but today is a new low.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)that differs from your own, then out come the pejoratives...
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)restrooms, and post-surgical women. This has come up because of a particular case, a high school TG girl, and a locker/shower room.
Have you ever been molested? If not, then you have no business dismissing how a young girl might feel seeing a penis in a locker room. Or having to undress in front of that penis. Or, especially, being told that what she knows she saw she really didn't see. Gaslighting is often a big part of molestation.
Unless you are willing to at least consider the feelings of the victims of sexual assault/molestation, you add nothing to this conversation.
BTW, it's probable that there are many more girls who have experienced molestation than who are TG.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)And done now for the same reason.
There seems to be a ramp up on DU of seeking out the slightest area of possible disagreement and then working to widen that into fighting between otherwise allied groups.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)desexualize a lot about the human body, male, female, intersex and neuter, into appropriate social contexts. But I don't really push for it, I figure it will happen naturally, over time.
Most of our strict gender segregation is based on irrational and unfounded fears, and aren't necessary in a functioning society.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)It's not a matter of desexualizing, imo. Men and woman sometimes just prefer same sex company, sometimes, and walking around in a towel is one of those times. Going out for a girls' not out without my husband is another one of those times.
The same country that is more progressive and might accept nudity as common place on beaches will still have separate locker rooms at the local club. Why? Because sometimes, women want to be with other women and men want to be with other men!
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Turn the stalls into walled compartments and eliminate urinals and you're done.
Locker rooms are a different story but partitioning space could also be implemented with more investment.
Most of us live with gender-neutral single occupancy bathrooms and showers already. Some of us have lived or worked in arenas where multi-stall bathrooms were gender-neutral. Ultimately it was a minor adjustment.
Rex
(65,616 posts)All I can say is there are some very desperate people in GD that crave negative attention.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's not quite OLIVE GARDEN, breast feeding, pitbulls or smoking, but if it keeps up, it's gonna feel that way.
The reason this 'bullshit' is allowed to stand is because we've been infested with a lot of people who don't have the best interests of Democrats, liberals, and progressives at heart. They are here, stirring up trouble, operating just under the wire, and many of them are voting on juries to support unprogressive stances.
What do the trolls want? They want to divide the membership of this board, in any way they can. They even set up websites and talk about how they can do it--it's a sad little "no real life" situation with those poor slobs.
I have to MIRT, they are doing a fantastic job at knocking down most of these jerks, but a few will slip through, they'll hide out in little-used groups, they'll poke and prod on the rare occasion--but not TOO much--and they'll sow some of that not-so-delicious FUD.
Be on the lookout, is all I can tell ya.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)All this furor comes from one incident. A 17 year old trans gender high school student got tired of having to use the staff bathroom and shower facilities, so she got the school administration to allow her to use the same bathroom and shower as the other girls. The only problem is, she has not undergone gender reassignment surgery, so she appears to be a male, anatomically speaking. I don't know if she has actually walked into the shower room naked, or anything like that, but people are freaking out, taking sides, holding demonstrations and protests, etc.
The school administrators said they made this decision because the Department of Education has guidelines that recommend schools do everything they can to make trans gender students feel accepted as the gender they choose. I'm not buying it. By allowing the student to use the staff facilities, the school was accommodating the student's needs just fine. I think they did this because they got tired of the student's demands, and wanted to provoke an incident. They blame the federal government, but the Dept of Ed guidelines are not legal requirements, so it appears to be a weak excuse. I think they saw a way to "solve" the problem by shuffling blame onto the federal government, so they took what they thought was the easy way out.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)No adolescent wants to get naked in the locker room. I imagine that this person changes in the bathroom. I doubt anybody is traumatized except the usual right-wing bigoted busybodies.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)It appears to me things were perfectly fine. The student used the staff facilities. Then the student said she needed to feel like she was accepted as a girl, and that meant using the same bathroom and shower as the other girls. I don't know what that means, exactly, in terms of being naked in front of the other girls, etc. and I don't think it matters. The bottom line is, the school was accommodating the student's needs, maybe not the student's wishes, but the student's needs.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)The right wing hysteria machine grabbed this story and ran with it, and a disappointing number of DUers believed every word.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)This is one of those stories that works perfectly for the right wing fear machine. If a Muslim student doesn't eat lunch during Ramadan, we're all subject to Sharia law. If a student gets a bad grade on a geology paper because she explained everything in terms of the biblical flood, it's a war on Christians. And so on.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)be relegated to a "special" bathroom, but it is not alright with the student, myself, and millions of others who want to see equality, fairness, and common sense.
And mostly we want to see people grow up and stop acting childish about the human body.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Argumentum ad absurdum. Taking a point or idea to its absurd conclusion. It's not fair to segregate boys from girls in any sense, so we need to make them all use the same bathrooms and showers at school. It's time they grow up and stop acting childish about the human body. I mean, after all, they're 14 and 15 years old. What are they? Children?
By the way, the bathroom and shower room are not "special." The staff use them all the time. The purpose of toilet and shower facilities is for personal hygiene, not mingling with other students.
randys1
(16,286 posts)brought up without those hangups just like they will live without guns, racism, greed, etc.
Let me see if I can explain it another way.
Like I tell the gun "folks" all the time, there are two futures:
1. way more guns, way more killing
2. way less guns, way less killing
1. results in death, chaos and ultimately the end of the human race possibly (climate change gonna do it first I think) and 2. doesnt
so 2. makes more sense.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)That was long enough ago that I have a high school aged kid, ffs.
FYI almost no trans youth have had bottom surgery. It's fairly recent that most doctors will put them on blockers and hormones.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Most people would be fine with the presence of a trans student in the high school. They would be fine with her dressing as a girl, using a girl's name, being in the cubs and activities with the other girls, that kind of thing. Of course, there is a segment of the community that is not fine with it, not at all, because their preacher tells them Jesus condemns it. But they can't say much because they're a small minority. Until...
Something like this incident comes along. The school board made a decision that could, at least in theory, have the trans student sharing the showers with the other girls. Now the religious minority is not such a minority anymore, because they are joined by people upset about the shared bathroom and shower situation. This tips the scales by making common cause between the bigots and the non-bigots. It's easy to see how students and parents would change their minds when things went too far. This is the sort of unfortunate thing that makes reasonable people side with bigots, at least temporarily.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Having her use the boy's or faculty facilities endangers and otherizes her.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)The student had been accommodated by using the staff bathroom and shower. She didn't like this because she felt a need to be accepted as who she perceived herself to be, a regular 17 year old girl. She got the school administration to allow her to use the same bathroom and shower facilities as the other girls. I have seen n mention of whether or not she actually showered with the other girls, but it seems she could if she wanted to. She has not yet had gender reassignment surgery, so she appears to be a boy, anatomically. Yes, it dos "otherize" her to use the staff facilities. That's unfortunate, but allowing her to shower with the other girls is going way overboard to accommodate her need to socialize as a girl. It plays into the hands of the haters. There are other ways the school could help her feel accepted as a girl. Doing this is only encouraging many of her classmates to reject her as a person, not to mention as a girl. If they're forced to see her male anatomy in the shower, there's no way they're going to feel friendly and accepting.
Warpy
(111,312 posts)from all those marauding penises concealed under frilly dresses.
Or maybe they want an excuse to pull our skirts up to do fanny checks, if we're still wearing skirts.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Leave concern trolls unanswered.
Put them on ignore and find better things to do with our time.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)They want women to prove that they have a "real" vagina. I told of an experience that I had with my sister and her family at a restaurant last month. The short story is my sister took my niece to the bathroom and a woman complained to the manager stating that she should have taken her to the men's room or had "his wife" take her to the ladies room. The manger basically took the woman's side and we left but not before my sister in law told the ignorant manager off by pointing out that not only does my sister have a vagina, she used it to deliver their daughter lol. The manager was also a woman. My sister didn't make a big deal out of it though she could have.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,208 posts)already been in a public restroom with a transgender woman? I've seen plenty that look far more feminine than I do. Besides, has there EVER been a case of a man dressed as a woman attacking someone in a ladies restroom? EVER?
yardwork
(61,690 posts)I expect this kind of behavior from people who support Sarah Palin. It's disgusting to see on DU. I think that many of the people posting this crap are trolls.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)over whether a transwoman student should be allowed to use the girls' locker room before gym class (the administration had given her a private room to change in and she protested that, the administration granted her claim, and then 200 students walked out).
Oddly enough this doesn't seem to be about bathrooms per se, though it's being reported as that, but about the locker room.
yardwork
(61,690 posts)And/or jumping at a chance to skip class. Pathetic.