General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOn the trolling concerning transgender women using the women's bathroom.
Almost 29 years ago, one of my employees came out to me as a transgender man. I say this only to establish that I have some experience here. (I didn't even know the word at the time).
Notice that the "concerns" are almost always about transgender women using a women's bathroom. This is a red flag to me, that we are still in a patriarchical society. A society which looks at women as possessions to be guarded. A society that protected women, versus guarded, would do much more to prevent sexual assault of women and children.
That said, I will say that bathroom use was a major issue in the case of my employee. My company was wonderful in how they helped ease the transition. My employee voluntarily chose to allow an open presentation and discussion, and to voluntarily restrict his use to a few bathrooms. Note I said, voluntarily. The company would have backed him if he had not chosen this.
I think there is little evidence of transgender women being a threat to other women, but there is certainly danger for a transgender person using a men's bsthroom.
I have been in places which have had unisex bathrooms, equipped with completely enclosed stalls, no separate public urinals. Some public facilities have changed their labels on separate bathrooms to include both genders, rather than one for each. (I've always wondered why men wanted to urinals so publicly). There are solutions which ensure the safety and dignity of transgender people, but there has to be the will to use them.
Response to s-cubed (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but use of the phrase "normal men" suggests that transgender women are abnormal men. Would you consider changing that to "cis men?" I know language can be tricky, but that would be less hurtful to transgender people who might read this.
merrily
(45,251 posts)On Wed Sep 9, 2015, 09:28 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
The concern isn't trans women using that women's room..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7152987
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
transphobic right wing sock-puppet troll
Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like the use of "normal men" here, but without more evidence of trollhood, I'm not inclined to hide because of that.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No disagreement or even issues allowed? Geez.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I looked for other posts and could not whether the poster is truly afraid of sex offenders or is transphobic. With very mixed feelings, I am leaving in the hope of discussion. I won't do it a second time, though.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Lots of them pose as backhanded concern. But the message is always negative. Those who do this are decidedly unsavory and the stench is beginning to rub off on their cohorts.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)It would work reasonably well for civility, but really stink when the insults were directed at minorities - and especially when targeting LGBT individuals.
merrily
(45,251 posts)On the one hand, some hides that make me wonder what the reason for the hide could possibly have been. On the other hand, some posts that seem very rude to me glide by, maybe even with a juror or two chiding the alerter.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)But I think many of the people who care most about having civil conversations have gotten tired of the increasingly hostile/black & white attitude around here and have left - or have given up on alerting because obviously uncivil and/or bigoted posts keep getting left.
It never worked well to make it a civil place for minorities.
merrily
(45,251 posts)kinds. DU should be safer.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Lets admin cash the checks with no concern for decency.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The law won't back you up.
If you see someone taking pictures under a stall in a bathroom, call the police.
Nothing at all to do with trans women using the bathroom, at all.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Neither women nor men can do that. Call the cops.
And it kind of strikes me as really paternalistic to say "letting the fox into the henhouse."
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)There are laws prohibiting the behavior you are afraid they will engage in. If the laws prohibiting that behavior doesn't stop them, laws keeping them out of women's bathrooms won't either. Enforce the laws that exist.
Do you seriously think that in a public, well trafficked area a man would enter a women's bathroom to rape her? And if it isn't a public, well-trafficked area (i.e. one where he feels safe to rape), do you really think he would stop and think, "Wait, that's a women's room - I can't go in there?"
The fear of sex offenders is a bogeyman being trotted out to keep transwomen in their place, which far too many believe is not the women's bathroom.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)They believe men transition to women in order to further control them and gain special access to them in order to rape them. Fucking insane belief.
Not all transphobic people are TERFs, but they usually roll out the same lame argument that allowing transwomen to exist will increase chances for men to rape women.
kcr
(15,316 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Use the bathroom that is gender appropriate. Those states have not experienced the alleged rape crisis caused by opportunistic rapists taking advantage of the non-discrimination laws in those states. That is because this alleged problem is a right wing fantasy propagated by fear mongering bigots. Such expressions of fake "concern" have no place here on DU and the people propagating that crap should be shown the door.
merrily
(45,251 posts)johns that are safe for all users will become more common.
johnp3907
(3,731 posts)Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)...is that their "concern" about transgender people (and almost always trans women) is also highly insulting to cis men and women. They don't get it.
Vinca
(50,270 posts)I've never been in a lady's room that was so open one had the opportunity to examine genitalia.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Exams at the door to protect people. Or something.
Perverts the lot of em.