Black DUers Matter

[CreekDog]

That is all.

[lovemydog]

1. Yes!

Black lives matter.

Black DUers matter.

Thank you CreekDog!

[uppityperson]

2. K&r

[Juicy_Bellows]

3. I didn't know what was going on until I got a jury summons.

Absolutely, Black DUers matter!

[sheshe2]

4. I am not sure which jury you were on.

Please post the results. Please, if it had to do with the AA group.

[Juicy_Bellows]

5. Gladly:

On Wed Sep 9, 2015, 11:16 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

1SBM just got his fifth hide -- IN THIS FUCKING FORUM -- and is now on time out
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=24649

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disruptive, divisive, innappropriate -- "This fucking forum" and "fuck your shit o'clock"
(And it is not "alert stalking" or a "BS hide" when a post is hidden 6-1 for saying "Idiot and Bernie supporter are not necessarily exclusive descriptors. n/t&quot The way to not get hides is to control your temper, and think before posting.


You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 9, 2015, 11:40 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: That is really inappropriate, no matter how you feel as a person, that comment is very distasteful.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nope. Won't vote to hide the truth.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't understand what the alerter is saying.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm a Bernie supporter, but I'd just leave this stuff for posterity.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's OK - they have reason to be upset - it's a weird ass thread.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

EDIT - I was Juror #7 - just for prosperity.

[JustAnotherGen]

8. You are awesome

So they were stalking Number23 last night too?

I agree with what she wrote.

They just proved the point of that thread.

[lovemydog]

10. You hit the nail on the head.

As always my dear JAG.

[brer cat]

11. Bingo!

Number23 was speaking truth, as 1Strong was.

[passiveporcupine]

100. Brer cat, I love your cat gif

That made me laugh out loud because it is just so CAT!

[Juicy_Bellows]

14. It seems that way but I was not aware before the summons. nt. Cheers!

[lovemydog]

9. Thanks. I hope everyone will read that entire thread.

And consider what kind of forum they want. A 'polite' one where people of color can't express themselves in their own protected group. Or a more diverse forum. I suggest that the people who alerted on that post and voted to hide are the furthest thing from liberal or democratic.

[betsuni]

12. Agree with everything you said. nt

[brer cat]

13. I appreciate your optimism.

But what I think they want is the AA group in the back of the bus. For some, the truth comes across as "uppity" and you know we can't have *that*. They won't absorb any lessons from reading that thread, but I love you for trying.

[SusanCalvin]

110. Well, they're currently doing a pretty good job.

Look at the havoc they caused in the original thread. And this has been allowed to go on and on and on.

[MerryBlooms]

24. rec. There is a very mean spirited undercurrent weaving its way throughout DU lately.

Bravenak receiving a threat to her home address is beyond belief. I hope the criminal is found and prosecuted.

Bravenak and her family.

[Starry Messenger]

36. This.

[geek tragedy]

39. We have white people here who want to control

what black people are allowed to say.

[RoccoR5955]

69. I know what you mean

It must come from an underlying need for control.
They must feel real bad about themselves if they cannot allow others, whoever they are, to be free to speak their mind.

[ancianita]

88. Dammit. I thought DU was better than this. There should be a limit to alerts. Alert stalking is evil

[SusanCalvin]

111. That's a good idea.

I wish the owners would implement it. Or at least look like they're trying to do *something*. This just goes on and on and on with no indication that any change is even being considered.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. THere is sort of one

any alert that fails on a 7-0 gets a 24 suspension. The problem is the juries, and some of us will neither alert or play jury because we consider the system to be that broken.

[Heidi]

90. Thank you. I was Juror 3. (nt)

[kcr]

109. Awful

Glad the jury got it right this time, at least.

[betsuni]

6. K&R

[Gormy Cuss]

7. That needed to be said.

[brer cat]

15. Thank you, CreekDog.

There is so much pain and disquiet here.

[octoberlib]

16. Couldn't agree more and that letter is

creepy as hell. I hope it can be traced. DU is the poorer without these much needed voices.

[malaise]

17. K & R n/t

[Recursion]

18. Thank you. This shit has to stop (nt)

[DLevine]

19. Absolutely.

The racist alert stalking is disgusting. The letter to Bravenak was downright horrifying.

[yuiyoshida]

20. for my pal

Bravenak, and my good friend MR. Scorpio

[mnhtnbb]

21. I agree.

The letter that was sent to Bravenak is really creepy and scary. Hope the admins are
able to figure out who did that.

I also agree that the alert stalking has gotten totally out of hand. Most of the juries I've
served on have been for alerts that are not worth the alert at all.

[yardwork]

22. I've seen the lame ass alerts too.

K n R

[Gothmog]

23. Agreed

[Doctor_J]

25. what's this about?

[brer cat]

27. Here--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724424

[demmiblue]

28. Wow.

Someone mentioned this in another thread... I was skeptical.

I hope she contacts the police. This is beyond creepy.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. No need to be afraid

I think first - bravenak is just that - brave.

Two - it is a time for her to personally retaliate. Be it the Post Office, Local Law Enforcement, etc. etc.


Three - I think I need to start side eyeing some folks at DU from the St. Petes/Tampa area and those who post about traveling there to visit friends/family. They might very well have sent it to them and asked them to mail it.

[demmiblue]

34. She is brave.

I wouldn't rule out other forces at play here, though.

There have been people from other sites who have done some nefarious things to DUers in the past.

Whatever the case, I hope this person is found and faces repercussions for their actions. I will keep my eyes open for clues.


Edit: just saw your other post. Hmmm...

[JustAnotherGen]

37. I think the easiest thing to do is to look at

Who alerted on her . . .

And who served on the juries.

Start there.

Cast a small net.

When I know there is a history of stolen devices in a certain part of Minnesota - I don't have my team look at T-Mobile's deliveries/possible theft in Atlanta.

You look closest to you. You look internal first . . . who touched the account? Who touched the account in the past year? Then you check dates/access times on account. You backtrack the network point (phone, internet etc. etc.). You alert the shipper and the authorities. And you wait.

I do this every single day and I keep getting props from Fed Law Enforcement because sometimes Corporate Employees do shit better than public employees.

Start RIGHT where you are at.

Always start internally and closest to home. To look outside of the DU membership would be stupid at this point. A lot of massive fraud/breach/criminal activity that falls under cyber web and interstate crime starts within. Look at the person sitting in the office down the hall from you. For all we know - a DU'er down on their luck in Florida could have had some 'outside operative' pay them a few hundred dollars to receive the letter and repackage it - and forward it on.

We've had employees here paid upwards of $500 for ten accounts/access info. Fed Ex truck drivers and UPS distribution center employees arrested for stealing phones 'in transit' or being part of a ring where they get paid between $200 and $500 per device - cash money.

[jwirr]

76. Why the St. Petes/Tampa area? I have not seen

anything about this.

[JustAnotherGen]

81. Don't know if it is on the open thread

But in one of my pm's from bravenak - the link is there.

It was sent out from that area on September 3, 2015 (post mark).

[Heidi]

92. Yes, she is brave.

I count you and bravenak among the (few remaining) reasons I continue coming to DU. Thank you both for all you bring to this community.

[JustAnotherGen]

93. Thanks very much

Especially because I've been pretty snarky today. Give me a day or two to cool off and I'll be back to my normal positive self!

[ReRe]

125. Had I received that...

... I would have dropped it and called the FBI and the USPS immediately. Does anyone know what she did about it? (Sorry for the ignorance on my part. Have been on a hiatus of late.)

[JustAnotherGen]

31. You were much nicer than I was

IIRC - Doctor J is one who doesn't believe the AF AM Group should exist as it is too divisive.

I'll check with Number23 later - but I'm fairly certain he's the who - who wrote it. She may have the direct link.

And yep -no fucks to give if he alerts on me.

[brer cat]

35. I guess we will see how much comprehension

comes from reading that thread. It should be an eye opener, but some eyes and ears are sealed closed.

[LongTomH]

74. Horrible! Bernie would be ashamed of this person!

[JustAnotherGen]

30. At risk of coming across as one of those Divisive Uppity African American Group Members

A member of the site had had a Sanders Supporter at DU send her a threatening letter to her home. Basically laughed about ALERT STALKING her. That thing (the letter from the mouth breathing knuckle dragging scum sucking little pig) is starting to show up lots and lots of places online. I'm thinking I'm going to send it to For Harriet.com? Gets lots of black women reading over there . . .

Someone at DU is slithering along on their little snake belly in St. Pete/Tampa Florida (you know lots of reptiles down there) and they HAVE to take it (my words) or out themselves.

*evil laugh*

[Doctor_J]

42. meh. Maybe.

A member of the site had had a Sanders Supporter at DU

I would tend to be unconvinced that this was actually a DU member. Although I guess it's possible. For myself I don't even know anyone's real name (except for kelvin Mace and Mark P Kessinger I guess ) much less a home address. Nor would I ever try to discover such information. Anyway I wouldn't blame it on a DUer, much less and Sanders supporter, until more evidence is rooted out. I haven't seen any supporter of any candidate use such language, or tone, anywhere at DU, in my 14 years here.

And yes, I tend to think the "safe havens" for subgroups are divisive. I guess the candidate ones are inevitable and somewhat useful in campaign times, but the AA, Women's, and Men's group seem counterproductive and get downright creepy at times. Although the men's group activity is sparse and 95% completely frivolous.

- Just the NSHO of one old white liberal (and not from the upper east side - grew up in an integrated city with black and hispanic neighbors, classmates, teammates, and drinking buddies).

[betsuni]

43. I knew the word "divisive" would show up here.

Won a bet with myself.

[zappaman]

53. No fair.

That was too easy a bet to win!

[JustAnotherGen]

59. I had to push the button you know? n/t

[brer cat]

44. Has anyone forced you to read

or join one of those divisive groups? Trash thread is your best avoidance method if you can't resist taking a peek. I have never seen anything "creepy" in AA or the women's groups, just a supportive community of people who want to share common interests and concerns, preferably without the intrusion of trolls, jerks, or serial disruptors. I never had a desire to venture into the men's group so you could be onto something there. Oh, and you better watch out for cooking & baking...with all their dicing, chopping, and rending they wield some pretty sharp knives.

[JTFrog]

54. Your post is creepy.

Why didn't you just stay over at discussionist? Seems like a much better fit.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. Now now -

We wouldn't want to be less than inclusive and divisive now would we?

I was going to suggest he go to the beach but that's just me.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. If I had grown up in Manhattan

It most likely WOULD have been the Upper East Side.

But I'm kind of a stuck up uppity little bitch like that.

[Gormy Cuss]

63. Can't decide whether it's heartening or predictable

that so many DUers are trying to shift the focus away from Sanders supporters. The letter mentions Sanders. That's a clue and obvious starting point. I say this even while I agree that the person may not be a Sanders supporter or even a DUer.

If you think the AA, Men's and the various women's groups are divisive, none of them hold a candle to the candidate groups for the two leading contenders. Look at the count of blocked members, for example. The Sanders group has blocked 150% as many DUers as any of the gender groups and five times as many DUers as the AA group. HRC's group has blocked even more.

[Hiraeth]

82. ^this^ total agreement here. I am eating crazy cake here today. Both sides are nutty.

[csziggy]

68. What really bothers me is that two more members who supported Bravenak

Have now been given time outs because of multiple alerts. And those three people are very well spoken, well informed DU members that contribute valuable input in discussions here. I don't hang out in the AA group but I pay attention to their posts in GD.

I really think the alert system needs to be changed so that serial alerters can be given a time out from that function. The point to DU is to have informative discussions from various points of view - that is a major difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats can (and should) be able to consider other views.

The people who alert on every little whim or hint of offense need to evaluate themselves and their attitude. Or stay the fuck out of DU.

I hope Skinner considers a change to the way things are done - DU has been losing our best members for several years. We need to be stronger for 2016, not weaker.

[SusanCalvin]

106. Yes.

This alert stalking in the AA group (or anywhere, but I don't know everything about every corner of DU) has got to stop. Two members on time out because of alert stalking in a thread about real stalking? Please.

[csziggy]

120. There are alert bullies all over the place

Some people seem to be the particular targets - and are often baited to attempt to get them to post a response that can be alerted.

I set my preferences to not serve on juries quite a while ago but now I'm wondering if I should change that. I'm starting to think that more people who refuse to jump into frays should be on juries. But I've got a lot on my plate right now and I'm not sure I want the added stress here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. I removed myself from it becuase it does not work

[csziggy]

130. There is that, too.

I think there should be a limit on alerts. That might limit the bullies a little bit but I'm afraid they would just tag team each other.

I think since I've been on DU I've alerted twice. The most recent time by the time I went to see what happened - since I got no notification of my alert outcome - the person had their posting privileges revoked.

I don't understand bullies - if they don't like someone, just put them on "Ignore" and don't spend time following them from thread to thread to harass them. It's people like that I suspect of being paid trolls. Either that or they are mentally ill.

Good to see you here again regularly, by the way!

[Blue_In_AK]

72. There are people at other, more conservative sites,

who revel in making DU look bad. This letter to Bravenak could be just such a letter.

[JustAnotherGen]

78. There are posters at DU

Who do a good enough job of making DU look bad all on their own! We don't need outsiders for that to happen! And this letter could be a good example of that.

[Lisa D]

89. +1

[Blue_In_AK]

91. Maybe I worked in the legal biz too long,

but in my experience it is often misguided to make assumptions about a situation until all the facts are known. Currently, we have no way of knowing if this letter came from a DU member at all. Brave's identity and address can easily be determined from her postings elsewhere on the Internet, and from that, some nefarious individual could easily learn her connection to DU. From there, it would be easy to shift the blame to DU, Bernie supporters, or even to a particular member here if they wanted to.

I know of people here who have been stalked by cowards from other sites. They can kill two birds with one stone - frighten the stalkee and make DU look bad in the process.

I'm not saying that it's impossible someone from DU did this, but it's far from a certainty.

[JustAnotherGen]

96. You are allowed to give people a pass

I'm allowed to have open eyes and see people for WHAT they are.

[Blue_In_AK]

98. I hear ya,

but do take care when you make judgments about people based strictly on what you see on the Internet. There are all sorts of trolls and provocateurs roaming around - disagreeable and bigoted "Bernie supporters," for instance, who may actually be something quite different - whose goal is to slander real supporters of the senator and the senator himself. (And, of course, the same holds true for the other candidates.)

[JustAnotherGen]

136. I'm a group host in the AfAm Group

Last edited Fri Sep 11, 2015, 07:06 AM - Edit history (2)

Just from the SOP alerts alone . . . I see what I see.

If you know the group hosts of the Sanders group and have a level of trust with them - I will give you their names. Then those group hosts can share solidarity with us and block those members of that group.

BTW - the two yesterday - are not blocked from our group. But if what you say is true - it shouldn't be hard for the hosts of the Sanders Group to do what they gotta do and say "folks - this is unacceptable".

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

132. You are definitely allowed to have free access to your opinions, but what Blue_In_AK wrote

also makes sense.


Peace.

[Doctor_J]

79. Much more likely, IMO

And of course it worked.

[Bradical79]

84. I don't know about that...

Primaries tend to attract some crazies to the candidates. Seen Bernie called a tea party supporting racist before, and a fellow Bernie supporter who hated Obama because he's a communist.

[jwirr]

83. I am not doubting what you are saying but last month

there was a DU "member" who was actually posting under two names to start fights between DUers. When I first read this about the letter to Bravenak that is what I thought about.

IMO furthering the fight between DUers is a real possible reason for this and where better than between white and black DUers. We are already picking sides so it makes sense that some troll would gain by adding fuel to the fire.

But to tell you the truth - I think this needs to be handed over to Federal authorities. This is against the law.

As to the juries - I agree. I am often asked to serve but let me tell you it is hard as most of what is alerted on is fights between individual members and not worth alerting on. That is a problem that Skinner should be dealing with.

[cyberswede]

26. K & R. nt

[Scuba]

29. K&R

[MuseRider]

33. 100% n/t

[Starry Messenger]

38. K&R

[mcar]

40. K&R

[aikoaiko]

41. Agreed. That hate mail sent to bravenak was despicable.

[tblue37]

45. KnR. nt

[Texasgal]

46. K&R

YES!

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Taking DU to real life is unacceptable.

I hope they catch the person responsible for sending the letter to Bravenak, "they" aren't speaking for me.

That said, I don't think anything is served by volunteering for the penalty box.

This is becoming reminiscent of 2008, and although I'm a Sanders guy now, I remember what it was like to be among a small minority of people who preferred Hillary in a sea of Obama supporters.

Avoiding a repeat of that experience is preferable.

[Rex]

48. Agree 100%, things have been really ugly toward the AA group.

Been reading all that has happened recently, someone has become a crazed stalker that needs a visit from the DHS imo. Or some people imo.

[Cali_Democrat]

49. Black DUers are being threatened in real life for not swearing fealty to Bernie

Something is very wrong with this place.

[NuclearDem]

52. Sad thing is bravenak was one of DU's few AA Bernie supporters.

[Cali_Democrat]

55. Yep...

She had the audacity express support for #BlackLivesMatter when they interrupted Bernie in Seattle.

That didn't sit well with some folks and they essentially alert stalked her into silence.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. Yep - and personally?

I won't be intimidated by those people.

[Doctor_J]

86. This is not true

Black DUers are being threatened in real life for not swearing fealty to Bernie

This is false, and points out clearly the problem with personalities.

What is true is that one black DUer was sent a menacing note from someone claiming to be a Sanders supporter.

If the sender is a DUer (unlikely IMO) and a Sanders supporter (also unlikely), it's still one person. When you make a statement like the one in your subject line, do you actually think you're helping anything?

[Cali_Democrat]

97. Black DUers feel otherwise.

Blacks on DU have been alert stalked.

In fact, if you go to the AA forum, many black DUers feel threatened.

The fact that you can't open your eyes doesn't surprise me.

You're part of the problem and you're doing your candidate no favors.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. You know what? I have been alert stalked

I have been cyber stalked, (yes met the legal definition, chased around not just one but two sites, and some of it came from people HERE... most of it came from who I actually think is the guilty party in this production (A RIGHT WING site, well known)... not the site itself, but a member, and it is not the first time, will not be the last time, they pull that crap.

I continue to get cyber harassed. I have had that experience here denied, by people who do it. It is happening. But you know what? This is not because they are AA, mostly. It is becuase it is not a bug, it is a feature of how DU works and some folks, for many reasons, race, color, national origin, we pissed the wrong woodchuck in the morning, get special attention from a few really, I mean this, REALLY BAD APPLES.

Most people would have left DU after all that has been done to me, in this place, and it is a very small group of people who are doing it. They get applause when they do it, not any kinds of consequences.

So here is my suggestion, We all need to be aware of it. Alert stalking is happening. Harassment is happening, some has risen to the level of cyber stalking... and it is time we all go enough is enough and demand that the tools that are being used to do this to MANY OF US, not just African American members of this board. are changed.

Because this will not change otherwise.

And as to issues that matter to the AA group, I care deeply for them. But becuase of actions of some of the members of that group, I shan't post about those issues on DU, but will continue to work towards a real life solution in my local streets, with local activists. and will continue to be involved in the civil rights struggle of our times. You know why? Their lives matter, as much as mine, and anybody else's... but this scourge is quite structural, thank you very much. The system of white supremacy is real, privilege is real..

[etherealtruth]

108. I am inclined to let black Duers describe their own experiences ...

.... funny thing is, I am inclined to believe them when they tell me what they think, feel and experience.

I am not inclined to put value on anyone that seeks to diminish or reinterpret the experiences of other people.

[OilemFirchen]

122. Why not take that last wee step...

and suggest that the letter isn't even real?

It's all the rage among the "skeptics".

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. I am not going to jump in the bandwaggon that it was done by somebody from here

for one simple reason, well many... we have had more than one incident involving certain well known RW sites that keep files on all of us... and see us as enemies, and talk of all of us as nothing more than vermin.

Members of those sites have hurt people here in very real ways. The best known example of that was Andy Stephenson. (which incidentally only us real old hands remember anymore). That opened my eyes as to the level of ahem lovely people these folks are and that they do not play by the same rules the rest of us do.

Could it be a member here? Yes. it has happened... just a LOT LESS OFTEN.

Could it be a Bernie supporter... sure, but the burden of evidence has to be much higher than just the letter.

That is the other thing you learn after more than a few of these ahem incidents...

So forgive me if I will need a lot more evidence that it was somebody from HERE.

Regardless, I hope they find the bastard, because they went to some serious work to find some of this. And that person is not precisely a nice person.

[Glassunion]

50. "I like cjeekdgg"

Thank you.

K&R

[CreekDog]

101. thank you

also

[Glassunion]

102. It never gets old

[BlueCaliDem]

51. K&R. eom

[Solly Mack]

60. K&R

[KamaAina]

61. What he said!

[Bobbie Jo]

62. K&R

This place is overdue for a MAJOR housecleaning.

[SidDithers]

87. Yup...nt

Sid

[SunSeeker]

94. +1

[hedgehog]

64. K&R

[AuntPatsy]

65. It should not even need an Op, of course they do, sad that this needs an Op

[mmonk]

66. Spooky. Whomever has to know a person's name at least to do that.

[RoccoR5955]

67. Absolutely. n/t

[Deadshot]

70. Nobody said they didn't.

[rhett o rick]

71. Absolutely. nm

[suffragette]

73. K&R

[McCamy Taylor]

75. Indeed.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

77. All are welcome here.

[redwitch]

80. Yes they do!

Thanks CreekDog!

[Baitball Blogger]

85. Now is the time to come out and support each other despite our political differences.

Whatever they might be, they are miniscule compared to the differences we have with the other party.

[SunSeeker]

95. K & R

[WillyT]

99. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[mountain grammy]

103. K & R

[Half-Century Man]

104. Completely. nt

[BumRushDaShow]

105. #BlackDUersShouldMatter

but alas.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. ...

[SusanCalvin]

112. K&R

[flamingdem]

113. KnR

[LovingA2andMI]

115. Bernie Supporters, African-American and Yes....

African-American DUers Matter, even if we don't agree on our candidate of choice for POTUS in 2016.

[dpatbrown]

117. Ditto

[DoBotherMe]

118. KNR

[geardaddy]

119. K and R

[ladyVet]

121. Well, of course they do...

Was my first thought when I saw this thread. I had missed (as usual) all the mess, so I wasn't sure what was going on. Now, sadly, I know.

I don't think half the people who claim to be Bernie supporters actually are. I think there have been trolls and disrupters here for a long time, and they got really bold when the stupid jury system was enacted and the owners went away. It's only going to get worse.

Gee, people. Be good to each other. I hope bravenak is okay, and she and 1strongblackman are back soon.

[uponit7771]

123. +1, some of the responses are common FUD responses and non arguments... there's no doubt

... some FUD working here.

If Bernie is the the dem nom there's no doubt I'm pounding the ground for him no matter what, I think we have 4 kick ass candidates and can choose the best of the imperfects.

While Republicans have complete clowns that lack any kind of courage...

They're not standing up to Trump, the sure going to bend over for Putin

[Scruffy1]

124. K&R NT

[Agnosticsherbet]

126. Absolutely.

[revmclaren]

127. K&R

[Cha]

128. Yes, they do.. they matter so much. And, thankfully a lot of people around here know that.

[raven mad]

133. NO SHIT?

Duh.

[Mnemosyne]

134. Yes.

[ismnotwasm]

135. K&R