I just went after an old friend of mine.

[Are_grits_groceries]

We have had a detente on Facebook. She keeps posting screeds against welfare people who take ALL her money. She also posts about Jesus and Amen. I finally had enough.

I asked about corporate tax avoidance and the fact that most welfare recipients do work. That was dismissed as nonsense. I then told her the poor were mentioned over 1000 times in the Bible. WWJD? She brought up that old standby Paul. I asked her when did what Paul said ever supercede what Jesus said. Jesus didn't ask for pay stubs or country of origin papers.

I can Bible battle with the best.

Oh well. Easy come. Easy go.
Another one bites the dust.

[leftofcool]

1. Bible battling with Jesus freaks is fun.

They can be tripped up every time. Fugelsang is one of the best.

[Bubzer]

31. +1

[n2doc]

2. Yep. Paul (Saul) never even met Jesus

At least that's how the story goes.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_welfare_spending_40.html

Total state and local spending on all forms of 'welfare' was around 450 million last year. 7% of total government spending.

If she wants to complain about the folks spending ALL her money she should start with the military....

[nikto]

88. Feel sorry for her ...

[TexasProgresive]

3. Keep up your strength

Be sure to eat more grits. And if you let some stiffen up you can hurl them. I know you won't do that.

It always amazes me how these "christians" avoid the teachings of Jesus giving higher precedent to Paul. Paul only makes sense if seen through the lens of the Gospels not the other way around.

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. She is trying to dodge with the Paul diversion.

She also brought up unions to counteract corporate hot messes? Not answering that red herring.
I'll just sit back and fling Jesus Bible verses.

[TexasProgresive]

7. Well the Jesus verses should stick better than the grits.

[starroute]

38. Paul was talking about members of churches who tried to freeload

That whole "those who do not work neither shall they eat thing" was specifically in the context of advice to early churches about their membership. It had nothing to do with the poor.

[vlyons]

39. That's correct

Members of the earliest church pooled all their resources and wealth to benefit the entire community. Early "communists" without the Marxian ideology of the state owning all the means of production. Jesus was pretty harsh about rich, greedy fat-cats.

[packman]

18. Need some help with Paul's views

it seems as though she was using Paul as an example for not providing for the poor; yet, Paul made trips to various places to provide for the poor. Please explain - if Paul was against social welfare?

[TexasProgresive]

25. Hmmm Maybe the collection for famine relief never made it to Jerusalem

Acts 11:27-30New International Version (NIV)

27 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) 29 The disciples, as each one was able, decided to provide help for the brothers and sisters living in Judea. 30 This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.

[DhhD]

40. The money that Paul directed was sent to the church (bride), in Jerusalem, ran by James.

Then the money was distributed to the poor through the church. Christians were not a part of the Jew's synagogue, but were a party to the Jewish tax collectors ran by the Roman governor/government. Churches pay no taxes today but have stopped supporting the poor and more importantly have stopped supporting the poor in their Church. They have instead allowed the poor to leave the Church and keep their money while supporting the RW Austerity. The poor are taxed having been pushed out and away from the bride.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/12/341563/memo-to-erick-erickson-the-working-poor-pay-more-in-state-and-local-taxes-in-ever/

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/05/wealthy-pay-no-taxes-muni-bonds-deductions-1-percent/

When Jesus returns for his church (the bride) who will He take with Him?

[jwirr]

32. So correct. RW christians do not apply the Gospel to

others - only themselves and then only through their works - leaving out the forgiveness factor. IMO they are anti-Christ in its truest form. They leave out Christ.

[MADem]

41. Well, he wrote YESTERDAY, didn't he?

Oh, wait...wrong PAUL!!!!

[valerief]

5. The crazy infects so many people. It's like shoveling shit against the tide arguing with them. nt

[mgardener]

92. I love it!

Shoveling shit against the tide!

[valerief]

93. It's oldie but goodie.

http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21109

[Martin Eden]

6. Dichotomous Ideology

RW Jesus Freaks adhere to a melding of evangelical Christianity and the economic philosophy of Ayn Rand.

The two are inherently incompatable for anyone who does not engage in Orwellian double-think.

[PDittie]

8. Excellent point

[MrScorpio]

10. You get a Damn Skippy! for that. nt

[lunasun]

12. +1 well said !

[mountain grammy]

13. Exactly!

[phylny]

14. Perfect! nt

[Enthusiast]

56. +100%!

[hifiguy]

67. This is it in a nutshell.

[Cracklin Charlie]

9. Good job!

But I am really sorry to hear that they have already dragged out the old 'hatin' on the poor' chestnut.

Politics of hate is a loser's game, plain and simple.

[jwirr]

34. Already? When have they not hated the poor.

[lunasun]

11. Glad you made dust of them . Wasted energy trying to bring these folks around has been my experience

Once the crazy talk starts especially with someone who never has had an issue before I tend to fade off and nix them out of my sphere . If they were already like this, I was never conversing with them to begin with .
Enough cold shoulders maybe they will contemplate why . Debating them just means they need to prove their point unless you like that kind of interaction
You have cleared and opened up space in your life for new additions !

[zeemike]

15. Well in my long experiences with bible thumper

I have discovered that they know little about what the bible says and what it is about.
Basically they only know what some preacher tells them it says and means...and only selective passages out of context.

As someone said above it is the scripture of Ayn Rand that they like.

[freebrew]

19. ^^THIS^^...

I live in the buckle part(of the belt).

[Bubzer]

33. Its the same where I live.

When they don't know an answer they project that YOU should read the bible to answer your own contention. There are just so many issues with the bible...and even more with its followers.

[zeemike]

48. Well myself I don't have any issues with the bible.

It is what it is...a compilation of books of days of old. It is not the infallible word of God but the experiences of the men that wrote it. And they related events as they saw it...nothing more.
And that is not to say that it was not inspired but to recognize that it is the view of men being expressed.

The greatest error is in the false belief that every word of it is the word of God when clearly that is not the case...it is history from the experiences of men. And that history has value and wisdom if read with understanding.

[Bubzer]

50. I think I can mostly agree with that. I used to consider myself a christian.

Or at least, I was raised that way... and I remember the absolute terror that was instilled into me regarding the notion of hell. I also remember thinking ~ wait a minute... if God is love, then why would he torture people in hell for all time? Why would he even torture anyone in the first place? Pretty horrific things to imagine as a little kid. Those thoughts stayed with me ever since.

[zeemike]

53. I don't ever remember being afraid of hell.

But I was raised a Catholic and they were more into the adoration of the saints and the ritual of the mass than into scarring us kids.
But I stopped believing when I was a teenager and became an athiest...and I had never read the bible at all. It was only later in my 20s that I actually read it. And by then I was able to read it like a book and did not have the baggage to deal with. I only read it after becoming interested in eastern mystisism...so my perspective was different.

[jwirr]

36. Prosperity gospel. Do it yourself salvation.

[blackspade]

16. I had the same thing happen to me....

Over the 'battle flag'
It was pretty sad.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

17. One big positive of Facebook,

we soon learn how people we thought we knew, really think. It's not always pretty!!!!!!

[LibDemAlways]

27. Truer words....

I have accepted friend requests from distant relatives and friends of friends only to find out that literally all they post is out of context Bible verses and/or right wing hate shit. I became reacquainted with a guy I knew in high school at a class reunion and had no idea that he hates Obama and Muslims (convinced Obama is Muslim) with a vengeance. I have had to unfriend or ignore the posts of more than a few. Yes, definitely not pretty.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

71. Or you accept a friend request from an old high school friend (I'm 46)

...only to find out that they've becoming a raging right-wing religious teabagger somwhere in the intervening years.

[LibDemAlways]

75. I unfriended one of those just today.

I blocked him a while ago but never officially unfriended him (my fault) and received a complaint that he was posting hate on the wall of one of my friends who had reset his privacy settings to let friends of friends post. Bad idea.

[secondwind]

20. you are not alone... I have had to open two Facebook accounts, to keep the crazies all on one Page.

[Are_grits_groceries]

21. I am very upset now.

Her hate and everything else has really gotten to me. I just started crying.
Hanging up.

[snagglepuss]

26. Very sorry to hear that but very understandable as such an interaction

painful and profoundly draining.

[TexasProgresive]

29. It's hard to keep your spirits up in the face of hatred

I recently read this line in a novel: "It's easy to hate, love is what's hard."

And some of us here who have never seen you face to face love you all the same- for what it's worth.

[Bubzer]

35. Aww... sending comforting thoughts your way

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

49. Sending GOOD VIBES your way...

[crim son]

22. I've done the same with the Guns & God freaks.

Never has one of them been able to meaningfully defend their position that Jesus would have loved our gun culture, but they can be real assholes when they realize I've noticed their hypocrisy. Buh Bye!

[progressoid]

23. I asked a guy on Facebook what he thought of the 1.7 million veterans who receive SNAP

or that a quarter of military families that need food assistance.

He shut up after that.

[Bubzer]

37. +1

[mhatrw]

64. OH, SNAP!

[PatrynXX]

24. generally don't like to fight

it's impossible to best my Confirmation Pastor. I see it this way. Would Jesus want me to at least try to fight for their souls? I can try. Give and take. helps more if your a Centrist I was never really political until I moved down to Iowa. Starting to see it's affecting my health among other things. However I really can't take it when someone say a family member (ahem) wants to see Open Minded churches he attends fail because they accept Obama as president.. Thats just sick. I've had fights more with the far left than the right , hard right? those aren't fights. there is no reality there so I can't say they are fights more like battling with the insane.

[jwirr]

28. Paul talked about women and their role in the church

but I do not remember him talking about the poor. She is definitely taking only the parts she wants out of the Bible.

[libodem]

30. .

[img][/img]

[Enthusiast]

57. That is a good one!

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[libodem]

70. Fits the discussion

[LostOne4Ever]

42. All my conservative friends I either hide from facebook

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Or have facebook not show me shares from their sources.

Having been born and raised in Texas, the majority of my friends and family are conservative. So I have quite a few of them on mute [/font]

[flygal]

59. Me too!

I have deleted ones with raciest and anti-gay posts. I'm slowly phasing out - asking friends to contact me by email instead. I can not make it through another election on facebook.

[No Vested Interest]

66. My Facebook relatives are conservative Republicans. I've hidden one-

a not-close in-law- and I just look at her page when I feel like it - when I'm mentally prepared- to see pics of her family. I've only met her once and she and husband had several babies I'd rather not ignore.

I do not respond to their rants. - It wouldn't get me anywhere, not worth the aggravation. Their mother -my deceased SIL - really did a job on them politically, so you can be sure I'm not going to change them. She also did a job on some of her children - history that can't be changed, but I was at least a little bit instrumental in opening up the family to contact with one another again.

[raven mad]

43. I've let plenty "friends" go - no blocks, no nukes -

just no reply.

Liberal aging hippie Democrat here.

[SoapBox]

44. The wacky religious are going to be the death of America yet...

They just spew and babble...they really don't know the Bible...they just grab a saying or two (and they get those wrong) and then claim to be "Holy"...they usually don't attend church or participate regularly, they get their churching from TV or the net...

It amazes me how even those that are down the economic ladder, attack even those further down and then actually defend those at the top (WTHeck!)...my sister and BIL are prime examples.

Facts? Oh don't confuse them with actual reality vs. their made-up fantasy world.

[Hortensis]

55. Nope. We'll stop the 30 million who push for Armageddon - because we have to.

SoapBox, I was surprised to finally (after living here a decade or more) to understand that some of the willing "victims" around here are cheerfully expecting God's retribution on the greedy, even as they continue funnel more and more wealth to them, in part because some of them are genuinely deserving. If some weren't, why would they have "earned" so much?

WTHeck? for sure. I wondered that so much that after a while I sat down and read what psychologists had to say about it. The equality of all men under the law is a very much a liberal-personality notion. It doesn't matter that our nation was founded on this principle -- most conservative-personality people think that's just plain ridiculous and disproven by the "naturally just world" they believe in. As in, people really do tend to get what they have earned, whether it's cancer or riches, or being railroaded into jail.

Most of all, conservatives are by nature comfortable with inequality, not just kicking down as I once assumed, but also kissing up. So foreign to me, I had to read, with occasional wow!s, to get it.

Explains why they're such a threat to many sections of the Constitution, too. They do not believe in them.

[Lorien]

90. Agreed. From what I can gather, most of them

are extremely fearful and angry, and miserable about their own situations. Yesterday a former coworker posted to an article about Jon Stewart lobbying congress to help 9/11 responders cover their medical care:

"Jon Stewart is worth $80 Million Dollars, and yet he demands that the struggling American taxpayer finance a charity that he should bankroll himself. He can pick my pockets when he lives in a one bedroom apartment like i do and drives a 20 year old car."

When I told her that the program would need to be funded to the tune of $2.7 Billion dollars, so even *if* Stewart dropped his other charities and abandoned his family to give all he had to cover their medical bills, he wouldn't be able to do it. But Trump could cover it! Crickets, of course. Right Wingers won't be "happy" until everyone is as miserable as they are, though for whatever reason they give a pass to the uber wealthy (except for George Soros, of course, who is the almighty bugaboo controlling the entire Left, in their deranged worldview). The Waltons, Kochs, Murdoch, Hedge fund managers, Trump...they see all of them as noble "job creators" even though the facts don't back up their beliefs, and they see people like Stewart and Michael more as the wealthy elite, when their net worth is a drop in the bucket compared to that of the billionaires who pull the strings in D.C.

[Xithras]

45. Paul fairly solidly repudiates the wealthy in the Bible.

There are a handful of passages that can be interpreted to support wealth generation and a lack of giving, but only if taken out of context. On the whole, Paul consistently explains that the path to hell is paved in gold.

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

What is a "love of money"? Christ instructed his followers to love everyone like a brother. Mark 23:31: "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." By Christs own words, all Christians are told that they MUST love their fellow man, and that the requirement to love supersedes even the 10 commandments.

So what happens when you balance your desire to collect wealth against the needs of those you love? You are saying "I place my own good, and the maintenance of my personal fortune, above the needs of my fellow man." That is a violation of both the teachings of Paul AND of Christ.

The Bible does not say that it's a sin to be wealthy. It DOES say that it's a sin to place your own personal comfort and wealth above the good of everyone else.

[RR2]

46. Do you want to really have some fun, share this video with your friend....

[ohheckyeah]

60. wow

Great video.

[Martin Eden]

69. It was a sad day when Martin was no longer president.

I was hoping for some solace in the presidency of Jimmy Smits, but alas twas not to be.

Thanks for the video!

[TexasProgresive]

47. "People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."

- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I don't know how this fits but I just saw it and thought you might appreciate the sentiment.

[stopwastingmymoney]

84. I like that, very true nt

[WDIM]

51. You should tell her it is the rich that take her money.

They take it to play war games.
They take it by skimming off wealth through the central banks.
They take it by the interest rate on mortgage and debts.
They take it by over pricing inferior goods and services and planned obsolescence.
They take it through poisons in our food and water that make us sick.
They take it by destroying the physical and mental health of the people.
They take and take and take and take.

What is given to the poor is just a pittance compared to what the rich take from us all.

[diverdownjt]

86. well said...

[closeupready]

52. I've had to unfriend SEVERAL FB friends who had turned fundie on me.

It's sad because we think we are friending with the people we knew back then, but instead, we are getting involved with people as they are TODAY, warts and all. And likewise, to be fair, they are friending who WE are today.

So I just let people go, and move on.

[Liberal_in_LA]

54. kick

[Enthusiast]

58. Kicked and recommended!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. Easy come, easy go?

I haven't found that to be the case with old friends.

But, if you're just doing some intellectual Bible jousting with an old friend, have at it, and I hope you win the prize, whatever it is. Hopefully Pinot Grigio, not Grits.

[Are_grits_groceries]

89. I bowed out.

You cannot joust with faith. They believe what they believe no matter what you say or what you show them. I knew that at the start. I was just startled by what she actually believed. I am from the South too and her ideas were strange to me even after hearing different beliefs all my life.

Not easy come and go after knowing people so long. But come and go it is. She will probably be the first to cast a stone.

[Curmudgeoness]

62. I have been fighting the urge to go off on a lot of FB friends.

One day, I will see one too many religious posts, or conservative posts, or religious/conservative posts, and I will explode on all the people whose only posts are meant to piss me off.....or so it seems. It's working.

I have already unfriended one old friend for the ignorant, ugly conservative posts that they stuck on their FB page. Many more will be biting the dust. Between DU and FB, I am being a saint in self-discipline, but it can't last forever. I am the proverbial broken pressure cooker.

[mhatrw]

63. The poor are oppressing us all.

They really have it made.

They are all eating their noodle cups and laughing at the rest of us.

[ErikJ]

65. Their main thing is abortion of "babies". Yet the Bible clearly says they are not human and

and life doesnt begin until their first breath after birth. And the Bible or Jesus never said a thing about abortion.

[annabanana]

76. ^this^... .. n/t

[hifiguy]

68. That old Scot Ian Anderson figured this all out back in 1971

1 In the beginning Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him.

2 And Man gave unto God a multitude of
names,that he might be Lord of all
the earth when it was suited to Man

3 And on the seven millionth
day Man rested and did lean
heavily on his God and saw that it was good.

4 And Man formed Aqualung of
the dust of the ground, and a
host of others likened unto his kind.

5 And these lesser men were cast into the
void; And some were burned, and some were
put apart from their kind.

6 And Man became the God that he had
created and with his miracles did
rule over all the earth.

7 But as all these thingscame to pass, the Spirit that did
cause man to create his God
lived on within all men: even
within Aqualung.

8 And man saw it not.

9 But for Christ's sake he'd
better start looking.

[cascadiance]

72. Ask her why she would hug the money changers instead of Jesus...

... after Jesus confronted them. If she wouldn't then why are her beliefs supporting the money changers as her holy leadership and not Jesus.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

73. Similar experiences are pretty much why I left Facebook.

It was so disheartening to see people I know posting RW BS. Ignoring it and responding to it were equally frustrating for me.

[awoke_in_2003]

74. I lost a few "friends"

because I called the battle flag both "the flag of southern treason" and the "Dixie Swastika". I lost a few more after the SC marriage ruling- I guess all the various buildings posted that day with the rainbow theme was just too much for some. Oh well.

[OldRedneck]

77. My ol' Granddaddy once told me . .

"Son," he said as he sipped a bourbon-and-branch-water toddy, "Don't wrassle with the pigs. It doesn't solve anything. You get very dirty. And it irritates the pig."

[arikara]

80. Your ol granddaddy

was a very wise man.

[stopwastingmymoney]

85. I've heard a similar story...

But it ends with:

You get all dirty, and the pig likes it

[3catwoman3]

78. A woman I was good friends with from 3rd grade thru high school...

...posts on FaceBook frequently. We no longer live anywhere near each other, and haven't since. The mid-1970s. I last saw her in 2009, at the last high school reunion I attended.

We used to have a lot in common. Somewhere along the line, that changed. I was shocked and disappointed when I read a thread of hers talking derisively about "libtards." I wondered what she would say we're I to identify myself to her as one of those "libtards ."

I realize we says some very harsh things about Republicans and religious fundamentalists here on DU. This is a private forum. I would NEVER go on FaceBook and rant away about what others think or believe, because I do not automatically assume that everyone I communicate with thinks exactly the same way I do. Most of the time, in fact, I'm pretty sure they don't, so I keep my ears open and my mouth shut.

[Juicy_Bellows]

79. Life is really too short - religion is bullshit but freindship is tangible. I'll leave this:

Sincere Cheers!

[LuckyLib]

81. My solution was to never get into the Facebook waltz. At all. Once in awhile

a friend will show me her page and what's out there, and I'm astounded. Too many good books to read, folks to connect with, life to live. And way too little time to get it all in.

[Skittles]

83. I agree

when someone has me look at FB pages, it is unbelievable, the amount of pure shyte

[MisterP]

82. yea, it's not like Paul wasn't seen as a pinko by the Rormans

[nikto]

87. Diagnosis for the "old friend" ...

[The Wizard]

91. Life is too short to suffer fools (NT)

[Duppers]

94. I ended a 30+year relationship

about 12years ago. After a few weeks, I had no regrets.

I've had it with most everyone who cannot use logic but am still biting my tongue with only a few.

[Major Nikon]

95. Send her these quotes by Thomas Jefferson

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."