If Democratic Socialism is so bad, where are all the scandinavian immigrants? - img

[Bubzer]

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Pinin' for the fjords?

I've wondered that myself. Strangely, you don't see Norwegians desperate to escape their socialist hellhole (with all that awful free college and health care) lining up at the U.S. Embassy in Oslo to apply for asylum.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. Isn't their prime minister

a conservative? Erner

[JDPriestly]

31. Conservatives in Europe are more Democratic Socialist than our Democrats.

[Hortensis]

52. Conservatism is stronger in hot climates, cools down a bit in cool ones.

And vice versa.

Yes, this is research-based. I read it in a thick book. But wonderers can just take a quick look at political maps. Both the nations of the world and the U.S. states that are more "liberal" tend to cluster in cooler areas, and also tend to be more prosperous and stable. (There are other geographic factors, of course, like coastal locations, etc.)

[JDPriestly]

70. Very interesting. Thanks.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

71. Alaska is an odd ball with Palinites

[Hortensis]

73. Are you from Alaska, Rosa L?

I'm thinking Alaska would have both the kind of life-challenging conditions that cause populations to be more conservative (i.e., protective) in order to survive -- we're not talking "cool" here! -- and jobs and economy very heavily dependent on Big Oil and Gas. At least these are my assumptions based on what I've read.

A lot of people also seem to say they moved there not only because of its beauty and wilderness but because of its differences from a variety of things they disliked about continental America, including widespread urbanization. I'm just guessing that doesn't weight the newcomers toward a preponderance of liberal personalities, though.

[Scootaloo]

126. Alaska is weird

Most people there are actually pretty liberal. However, there is a SERIOUS distrust of "big government" and then there's the influence of the oil industry.

Democrats could take Alaska, if we'd just put forth the effort.

[DFW]

98. No, they're more Social Democratic. BIG difference to us who have lived where there was both.

The Party of Democratic Socialism did exist. THESE were the "Democratic Socialists" where I now live.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Democratic_Socialism_%28Germany%29

Some of them still claim it was their perfect right to shoot people down at the Berlin Wall. They are not nice people. Labels are just that: labels. "Democratic Socialist" has never meant murdering your own citizens in the USA, so it doesn't raise eyebrows back home. In Germany, where I live, it'll get you more than just shoes thrown at you.

[JDPriestly]

111. Bernie is 73 and not about to shoot anyone. Listen to his speeches.

Go to one of his rallies.

I lived in Austria, France, Germany and the UK.

Those countries are relatively socialist. We are talking about truly universal health care insurance, free post-secondary education and training, child care that is of high quality, really basic stuff that is taken for granted in European countries. Just what the movement behind it is called is unimportant. It's what America needs to be doing to make life less frightening and guilt-ridden that matters.

I don't know whether you are American or not but when you look at our family law courts and see the bickering over child support payments, it's pretty disgusting.

Some of the costs of caring for children should be shared for all of us. We should expect parents to be responsible in planning their families, but some (not all by any means) of the responsibility for making sure children have shoes on their feet and food in their tummies when they go to child care or school should be shared by all of us. It's just the moral thing to do.

[DFW]

114. I'm American and agree with your assessment of the domestic situation

In Germany, however, it far from being as rosy as you picture. German men neglect their child support as often as men of any other nationality, and there is no universal health care at all. It is not France. It is a patchwork system that asked me to pay €2500 euros a month for health insurance if I wanted German health insurance, even though I pay my taxes there. I keep my US insurance, crappy though it is, rather than lay out $34000 a year for health insurance. I mean gimme a break. You either don't speak German or weren't there very long. The child care is spotty. The word "kinderunfreundlich" is hard to pronounce to some non-Germans, but every Germany learns it early, and it applies well to the German approach to little ones. I've lived there for years, married to a German (SPD/Greens voter) and we speak German at home. I'm no stranger there.

I realize that Bernie isn't about to shoot anyone, no matter what his age. However, as one who has dealt with an existing version of "Democratic Socialism," the term makes me cringe. Not only because to all Europeans, it means the killers at the Wall, but because Bernie advocates a classic Social Democratic line as is practiced in most northern European countries, which is something else entirely. He's not running for Bundeskanzler of Germany, so it obviously doesn't matter in the States. Should he win, however, he had better have some reassuring talks with countries that have buried 19 year olds who died at the hands of "Democratic Socialists," as happened when their European version was in power.

[JDPriestly]

125. I lived in Germany, France, Austria and the UK,

Had babies there and went through kindergarten and elementary with then in Austria. Maybe things have changed since we lived there, and of course services have to be paid for but I loved the health care and the kindergarten system in Europe.

It is really much worse here.

French doctors and their healthcare system saved my life.

[awoke_in_2003]

37. Lovely plumage, the Norwegian blue. nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. Isn't their Deputy Prime Minster a Green?

Most of the government are SAP Social Democrats. I went to Malmo in Sweden it is nice, people very friendly and nice coffee.

[Bubzer]

6. I'm not sure. I think it depends which scandinavian country you're refering to.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

72. Sorry, Sweden

[Bubzer]

80. Ahh. This is what's listed at wikipedia:

Kjell Stefan Löfvén is a Swedish politician who has been the Prime Minister of Sweden since 2014 and the Leader of the Social Democrats since 2012.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

89. Ja

[brooklynite]

4. If Democrtsic Socialism is so good, where are all the US Emigrants?

will you be leaving anytime soon?

[Bubzer]

5. About 20k immigrate to scandinavia from the US per year.

Applications to immigrate are considerably higher. However, Scandinavian countries have considerably higher immigration standards then the US.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. It's difficult to emigrate to the Scandinavian countries.

But I do know a few Americans who have done so (they qualified by marriage or having a parent from there) and they are very happy there.

[yeoman6987]

19. It is hard to go to many countries. Hardly any of us would qualify

For New Zealand. The United States is the easiest in the world to come to.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

83. One of my college friends did so by taking a post-graduate semester abroad in Oslo

While she was there, she heard that Norway was in desperate need of IT professionals. Since she had a good math background, she applied for the new computer science department at the University of Oslo and was accepted.

From then on, she was in. She currently works for the Norwegian equivalent of the IRS. Like all Norwegian residents (she never got around to becoming a citizen, although she was thinking about it), she gets four weeks of paid vacation by law, an additional week as a government employee, and another week for being over sixty.

She and her long-term gentleman friend live in Oslo and have a beautiful cabin in the mountains, but they don't own a car. They don't have to. Urban or intercity transit or bicycles do the job.

About twenty years ago, she was seriously injured when a car hit her bicycle, and she spent months in the hospital without ever seeing a bill.

I asked how her parents felt about her decision to stay in Norway, and she said that at first they were upset, but once they had visited a few times, they realized that she had a better quality of life than she would have had in the States.

[Bubzer]

94. +1

[brooklynite]

85. Since so many people here worry that the Democratic nomination is being "fixed".....

....maybe you could claim political asylum?

[tabasco]

87. You seem bitter about something.

I suggest a break from the Internet.

[brooklynite]

88. What would I be bitter about?

All I'm doing is addressing flippant comments about the political process.

[Bubzer]

96. I wouldn't call somone detailing their experiences as being flippant.

But it does seem you're trying to be dismissive.

[Bubzer]

95. Thats somthing I would expect the GOP or a conservative to say...not a Dem.

[daleanime]

24. So eager to get rid of us?

We could never leave you.

[Rex]

26. .

[DesertFlower]

35. my late husband said

we should have made a move when we were younger. he worked for IBM and could have lived anyplace he wanted.

[YabaDabaNoDinoNo]

48. Ever try immigrating to a better place as an American?

It is very difficult if you are not married to a citizen of that country or have direct family to that county.

It is even difficult if you have a skill that an employer needs to bring you in as an American.

It is easier to immigrate if you are a refugee or are wealthy.

Regular person who wants a change of venue with only job skills to offer very, very difficult to do many times a temporary work permit and temporary visa is the best one can get usually one get a no.

[Bubzer]

66. It's also almost imposible to own land outside of the US.

You typically have to be native-born or married to someone who is.

[davidpdx]

116. It is difficult, but there are a few countries in Asia where it isn't that difficult

I am an immigrant in South Korea. I started working here almost 11 years ago, met my wife and got permanent residency five years ago. Even if you aren't married it's not difficult to work here. One of my co-workers who is not married has been here five years and received permanent residency on his own.

[PowerToThePeople]

55. Depending on the outcome of this election

I very well may be leaving.

[former9thward]

7. The Scandinavian countries are not democratic socialist.

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 01:21 PM - Edit history (1)

All of them are capitalist based market economies. Their social welfare safety net is much deeper than the U.S. But that is the only difference. They can afford that safety net because their military expenses are negligible. Their military expenses are negligible because the U.S. taxpayer defends them.

[eridani]

8. Defends them from what? The US is more in the busienss of creating terrorists n/t

[former9thward]

45. Its called NATO.

Why did the Scandinavian countries join?

[1939]

56. Sweden and Finland never joined NATO during the Cold War

Only Norway and Denmark did. Sweden, like Switzerland, maintained strict neutrality and also maintained substantial armed forces. Finland maintained neutrality under the Soviet gun with their foreign policy severely constrained. Sweden was often confronted with Soviet naval provocations in the Baltic.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

10. Yes they are.

Democratic socialism isn't incompatible with capitalism and market based economics.

And when you're not involved in illegal wars (like the one Hillary voted for in Iraq) you don't need to spend trillions on your military.

[Bubzer]

12. +1

[NuclearDem]

13. No, they're not.

The Nordic Model is one of social democracy, not democratic socialism. Democratic socialism is inherently incompatible with market economies by virtue of the simple fact that it seeks to replace the market system with a socialist model.

The Nordic Model has no such goal.

[Bubzer]

14. For you as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

[NuclearDem]

16. And for you:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

The Nordic model (or Nordic capitalism[1] or Nordic social democracy)[2][3] refers to the economic and social models of the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands and Sweden), which involves the combination of a free market economy with a welfare state.[4]

Democratic socialism isn't the combination of a free market economy with a welfare state. It's the replacement of a free market economy with a socialist economy.

[Bubzer]

17. I really shouldn't need to point this out, but...

"Nordic capitalism or Nordic social democracy". From your own post no less.

[NuclearDem]

18. You do know that social democracy and democratic socialism are not the same thing?

The former is a reform of capitalism with a welfare state. The latter is the replacing of capitalism with socialism.

They're not the same thing.

[Bubzer]

82. Touche! Though I want to bring some additional perspective into play...

Democratic Socialism has numerous variants, much akin to the difference between a European Liberal and an American Liberal... by which I mean to say, they are different. In the case of Democratic Socialism, I refer to the brand that developed in the states. I think you'll find its much closer to social democracy:

http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

[stevenleser]

104. And right in that site, they will tell you they are Socialists, & on the very page you linked nt

[Rex]

27. LOL!

[stevenleser]

105. That's right, their governments are Social Democracies, not Democratic Socialism. nt

[Bubzer]

11. You are mistaken sir.

For your edification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

[former9thward]

44. No, I am not.

I don't take my definitions from the baby pablum of Wiki

[Bubzer]

97. Then where do you take your deffinition from?

Might I suggest: http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism ?

If not, please list your source so I can arbitrarily dismiss it, as you just did mine.

[LanternWaste]

108. I imagine the academic texts sourced in the wiki entry are merely pablum too...

I imagine the academic texts sourced in the wiki entry are merely pablum too... as they disagree with your premise.

[former9thward]

110. Other posters have agreed with me.

Not with you.

[Bubzer]

120. And other posters have disagreed with you.

Yours is not the only position being expressed here.

[PosterChild]

28. +100 !! (NT)

[JDPriestly]

33. Democratic socialist countries are capitalist. It's a mixture.

I've lived in Germany, Austria, France and the UK all pretty much democratic socialist. There is a huge difference between communism and democratic socialism.

Democratic socialism just means that they have the very strong safety net that the people choose to have through democratic representation.

They do have lower military expenses because we pay their defense costs to a great but not a total extent. We are the fools.

But we need a complete and thorough audit of our defense costs and expenditures.

[treestar]

54. So true. If only we could get rid of this military obsession

we have and of being world policemen.

[stevenleser]

78. Correct, the Scandinavian and many European countries are Social Democracies. Not the same thing

as Democratic Socialists. They are two very distinct ideologies.

[DavidDvorkin]

15. They've all committed suicide

According to Dwight Eisenhower.

[Zorra]

20. Oh, they're all moving here to the US to take advantage of the unbelievably expensive healthcare,

the totally unaffordable college costs, the incredibly expensive child care, our wonderful no maternity leave policies, all the random shootings and murders by firearm, the $7.50 an hour jobs, and the no vacation policies of so many employers. To name a few of the many reasons why thousands of starving Scandinavians are desperately trying to enter the US illegally on a daily basis.

[Bubzer]

21. lol

[Phlem]

22. I love the tone of you sarcasm!

[kairos12]

38. But Mureica and freedom. We're exceptional.

[SoapBox]

23. Exactly.

[SouthernProgressive]

25. Is there some kind of migration of Americans to Scandinavia?

Would the answer to that validate or invalidate our economic system?

[PosterChild]

30. +100 !! (NT)

[1monster]

41. Were I younger and more adventuring, I might consider

checking out Norway, if only it were not so freakin' cold up there and it didn't get so much snow... I'm a warm climate type.

[stillwaiting]

50. Most Americans don't have a clue how things work in other countries. Very incurious.

Secondly, immigrating to Scandinavian countries is EXTREMELY difficult to do for most Americans.

A small percentage of us would even be eligible to immigrate, and those that are eligible would be the ones that most likely have a great job in the U.S. that provides at least SOME level of benefits and financial security.

So many that would hugely benefit from living in a Scandinavian country (relative to their lifestyle in the U.S.) are not welcomed there.
Immigration policies exclude them.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

58. Of course, it excludes those who would "hugely benefit"

If they let just anyone in, their safety net stretches thinner!

We, on the other hand, don't have to worry about our safety nets stretching too thin, since we barely have one, anyway.

[stillwaiting]

59. Our social safety net is a disgrace.

I am simply perplexed that some around here spout off about why Americans aren't immigrating to Scandinavia if it's so great over there. I expect for ignorant right-wingers to say it. I would expect better from informed posters around here.

It would be very difficult for most Americans to immigrate to Scandinavia.

The "love it or leave it" argument is so ignorant and/or disingenuous.

[Bubzer]

68. +1

[Lee-Lee]

57. I've seen the argument made that their sharp immigration restrictions enable much of what they do

Not sure I buy it, but the argument is by making it incredibly hard to emigrate unless you are very wealthy or a refugee they can afford the social welfare benefits by managing how many use them.

The wealthy they allow in will always be a cash positive to the system, so they are welcome.

The number of refugees they allow in is managed and controlled and accounts for the amount of job growth they want to see on the unskilled labor side.

Pretty much nobody else gets in- so no middle class jobs and only a managed number of "lower class" jobs are taken by anyone but the natives of those countries- resulting in far more job availability and far fewer people, including immigrants, using the generous social welfare benefits without working and contributing.

I'm not sure I buy it, but it makes an interesting argument. I do know that the highly restrictive nature of what those counties allow for immigration- allowing only refugees and only in numbers that they feel benefit their economy, not allowing anyone else a chance- is one aspect of their way of governing I don't think we need to emulate at all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

90. It's very difficult to emigrate to those countries

I looked into it in 2000 after Bush was sElected, because I'm half Norwegian and speak some of the language.

No luck.

You have to meet one of a set of stringent qualifications:

1. Be a refugee or political asylum seeker (hating the Bush administration didn't count)
2. Be married to a Norwegian (wouldn't have minded but there were no likely candidates)
4. Be the child of a Norwegian citizen (Sigh, I'm the grandchild of two Norwegian citizens, but that's not close enough.)
5. Have a job offer from a Norwegian employer who has proved that no current resident of Norway is qualified
6. Be skilled in an occupation that is in short supply in Norway

I also tried Germany, but again, one generation too far down. You can be the grandchild of a German citizen, but unfortunately, my grandmother was born two weeks AFTER her parents came from Germany. If they had waited just one month...

[Rex]

29. The Bubble Brigade will explain why America is 1#

kidding they will just insult you. They are one trick ponies.

[IronLionZion]

32. The upper midwest: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Dakotas, Iowa

[truebluegreen]

39. And they all came here....when?

[IronLionZion]

60. I personally know some recent immigrants from Sweden

in Minnesota and here in Washington, DC where I live now. They were born and raised in Sweden but liked America so much they came over. It's not that hard to believe. People move all the time.

[truebluegreen]

62. Yes, I'm sure there's a wave.

[IronLionZion]

84. People walk past Europeans every day without knowing they're European

nobody said there's a wave

[truebluegreen]

86. Uff da.

OP was about how Scandinavians in general are not fleeing democratic socialism.

[Bubzer]

102. +1

[Recursion]

43. Americans of Scandinavian descent outnumber Scandinavians in Scandinavia (nt)

[forest444]

74. Bingo. The immigrants fleeing Scandinavia WERE there - before they adopted Democratic Socialism.

Between 1840 and 1910 about one in three Swedes left the country, mostly to the U.S. (especially Minnesota, of course).

And what were they fleeing? Their feudal class system - in other words exactly the kind of conditions our friends in the GOP want to recreate here in the U.S.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=b6UyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MukFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2599,1490863&dq=swedish-diaspora&hl=en

[1939]

77. Primarily fleeing a shortage of land NT

Upper Peninsula of Michigan has a very large number of people of Finnish descent.

[forest444]

81. Or rather, the concentration of most good land in a few hundred families.

As hard as it may be to believe now, Scandinavia 100 years ago was a lot like Central America today - only whiter and colder.

[1939]

93. White, colder, and

a whole lot less corruption in government.

My grandfather and half of his siblings came to the US after they grew up. Only one brother inherited the farm in Sweden.

[PosterChild]

34. So what's your opinion of..

Venezuela ? A country that actually claims to be democratic socialist ?

[Bubzer]

100. Well, lets take a look at that.

Venezuela is federal republic style of government rather than a democratic socialist state.
http://venezuelanalysis.com/basicfacts

[PosterChild]

112. Bernie's going to be . ...

... tarred and feathered with Venezuelan oil.


From the same source. Be sure to read the whole thing! Its likely donald trump with a vocabulary!

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3367



Democratic socialism means healthcare, jobs, food, and security, in neighborhoods where in many cases nothing but absolute poverty existed ten years ago..... Bottom up democracy in Venezuela starts with the 25,000 community councils elected in every neighborhood in the country. “We establish the priority needs of our area,” reported community council spokesperson Carmon Aponte.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/democratic-socialism-moves-forward-in-venezuela/11292

[Bubzer]

113. Yikes! that article is enormous! Thats not an article, its a book!

They may be choosing to move to democratic socialism, but they're not currently there.

Also consider that Bernie doesn't point to Venezuela as being representative of his ideals.

[PosterChild]

115. Gives new meaning to tl;dr...

The problem for bernie is simple - the westren European democraciees bernie does point to are social democracies and do not embrace or exemplify democratic socilism . The European People's Party is not socilistic. They are not, and never will be democratic socialist states.Venezuela however explicitly embraces and exemplifies the political ideology that bernie espouses . And, by the way, bernie knows it.

But more importantly bernie's electoral competition knows this and they are going to make good use of it. So you can be quite sure the voters will know all about it too.

What the voters will hear is one candidate saying Make America Great and another candidate saying Make America Venezuela .

Bernie, and the Democratic Party , will be smeared with Venezuelan crude.

[Bubzer]

117. Sorry but I just don't agree. The fear about socialism has been progressivly fading for a while now.

It's just not the issue it was during the red-scare. In fact, with as much as we've delved into a fascist/oligopoly state, people are desiring and even demanding something to counter the iron grip of corporations. Bernie represents that.

The GOP can trot out the toothless dog of "But he's a socialist" all they want, it'll make little difference. The media has already tried that tactic, and it's failed... people just aren't biting onto that shriveled old bait.

[PosterChild]

118. Here are some resources...

... concerning the electability of socialists. Even atheists do better .

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/17/could-a-socialist-actually-be-elected-president/

[Bubzer]

119. Yet, in spite of those numbers, Bernie has had vastly more event attendance than anyone else.

There are a number of issues I take with the polling methods used, and the opinion piece article... but even setting those concerns aside, that poll just isn't consistent with the enormous enthusiasm out there for Bernie. You think the federal republic of Venezuela will harm Bernie's campaign... I see this argument as facile. It's a distraction at most. Bernie sticks to the issues and points to Scandinavian counties as an example of what he's aiming for. His actions speak louder than the words of his detractors. Substance over smoke and mirrors.

[PosterChild]

121. Good luck with that (nt)

[PosterChild]

124. Looks like it's started....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141207819

[Bubzer]

127. Looks like Hillary's attacks are having the opposite impact

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/fundraising/254105-bernie-sanders-raises-12m-after-attack-from-pro-hillary-group

[PosterChild]

128. Keep hoping. (nt)

[colsohlibgal]

36. Conservatives There Are Not Like Ours Here

They differ from progressives on immigration more than anything. On most things they are left of the DNC Wall Street dems.

Also...like every other non tinhorn country other than us they do not allow for profit health care.

[Jason Huh]

40. Bingo!

Rec

[Recursion]

42. In a large band from Wisconsin to the Dakotas

With a large concentration in Minnesota.

[steve2470]

47. yep you nailed it nt

[stillwaiting]

53. And WHEN did they immigrate there?

A long time ago for the most part.

I don't believe that there have been many Scandinavian immigrants to the U.S. over the past few decades. Those that are here are not first generation immigrants for the most part. That is some very important missing information.

[MineralMan]

63. Yah, well, the Swedes and Norskies have royal families, you know.

They're still sort of monarchies.

Here's the King of Sweden:



And the King of Norway:

[LanternWaste]

109. Your application of historical context is dramatically lacking.

Your application of historical context is dramatically lacking.

Little more than another post hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacy.

[pnwmom]

46. They're all over Washington state, for one thing. And many of them

seem to have arrived via Minnesota.

[MineralMan]

65. Can you blame them? It's freaking cold here in

the Winter. Lots have stayed, though. You can still attend church services here in the Twin Cities, conducted in Swedish and Norwegian, if you like. I went to the Norwegian Lutheran service once with my Mother-in-law.

[MineralMan]

61. They all came to Minnesnowta years ago.

Yah, you betcha.

Disclaimer: I am Norwegian by marriage, so I know these things.

[FrodosPet]

64. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northern Michigan

But I imagine you mean recent ones.

[Bubzer]

69. Right.

Having the benefit of the internet permits many to look into various locations prior to moving. It surprises me that anyone would immigrate here given the hostility of the right wing toward immigrants.

[KitSileya]

67. These days, I think only upper middle class Scandinavians would try to emigrate to the US

And only those who have good, safe jobs, like upper management, visiting Professor-type white-collar jobs, or who try for the American dream in entertainment or other flashy jobs.

I currently live in Norway, but I have family in the US, and I have lived there before. However, these days I know that moving back isn't an option unless I win the lottery. Not only would it hurt me economically (I am a high school teacher,) but I would not last long in the American work environment. I have gotten too used to actually having rights as a worker. I wouldn't accept the expectations, not having a say in my job duties, no having the worker's safety net of not fearing being fired if I speak up.

Even if I got a job that isn't teaching, I would never accept so little vacation, no maternity leave, the hours and hours of unpaid overtime most white-collar workers do in the US. I spend every summer there, and I see how exploited my friends are, how little spare time they have, how uncertain their lives are. That's not for me.

[Hortensis]

76. Our DIL is a Danish citizen raised in America, KitSileya, but she's never

considered giving up the protections of her Danish citizenship, for herself and her children, for love of both heritages and because of all the differences you describe, and more, when she visits relatives in Denmark.

Fortunately, now for the first time she can get dual citizenship, which she is doing, but I've recommended she carefully do everything required to retain her citizenship rights under Danish law now that she is accepting U.S. citizenship and lives here. What the laws of nations can confer, they can also take away.

Because of the the destabilizing effects of climate change alone, in future many more mass population migrations will be occurring. Today's are just the beginning, and I believe protective reactions in many places are inevitable. I even imagine I am hearing the sound of doors slamming in the future... She doesn't believe it could happen, but unlikely as it is, some of those migrations could conceivably be from hard-hit regions of the U.S. in decades to come if heat, drought and fresh water scarity continued to increase and economic decline set in.

[DFW]

75. If you refer to Scandinavia, you're thinking of Social Democracy. Not the same thing as "PDS"

In Sweden, for example, they are "Socialdemokraterna (social democrats)," of Socialdemokratiska Partiet " (the Social Democratic Party). Die Sozialdemokraten in Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands, or SPD)

There WAS a Party of Democratic Socialism until recently. "Democratic Socialism" to us in Europe means these guys:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Democratic_Socialism_%28Germany%29

These are the people who got their jollies putting people in mental institutions for being dissidents, forcing dissidents out of jobs and then jailing them for the crime of "parasitism (i.e unemployment)," and shooting them down at the Berlin Wall if they tried to escape. Not the same to those of us who have lived through both.

[stevenleser]

79. I keep telling people this. Maybe if enough of us say it, people will finally get it. nt

[DFW]

91. When swine get permission to launch an airline

No one gets anything they don't want to get. But I laud your optimism.

[BooScout]

99. I've tried to explain the differences in European political parties....

...and US political parties here at DU before. I got a called a GOP troll and got a hide for saying that in many ways the Tory party in the UK was further left than the Democratic party in the US. I have given up trying to explain the differences. Folks that have never set foot outside the US, much less lived abroad are going to insist they are well informed....when they aren't.

[DFW]

101. I've seen that.

I see people in the USA who live inside their "smart" phones. A lot of uninformed people on their smart phones.

[Bubzer]

103. Not quite.

I'm using the local (think American) version of the term. Much as there is considerable difference between a European Liberal and a US Liberal, there are differences between the Democratic Socialism of Germany and that of the US.
http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

[DFW]

106. I don't think just "American." I think globally. I have to.

I live in Germany, am married to a German and we speak German at home. You cal use whatever label floats your boat here. After all, there won't be many Germans voting in the Democratic primaries, why should you care?

However, in Germany, no one calling himself a "Democratic Socialist" will ever be associated with anything other than the Wall murderers without a LOT of "'splainin' to do." It just leaves a bad taste in our mouths. Not anyone's fault. It just does. You have to have lived here to know.

[Bubzer]

107. I can certainly respect that. Each culture applies the labels it deems appropriate.

In the US, there's a big push to malign Bernie Sanders with the term Democratic Socialist... though when Bernie refers to Democratic Socialism, he points to Scandinavian countries as prime examples of his ideology. That, to a very large degree, is where most of this contention lies. Its a battle of defining words... partly because there's a group of individuals who will use the concrete meaning of a word as a wedge, rather than recognizing and acknowledging the intent behind it.

Those who dislike Bernie, want to be able to use Democratic Socialist as a slur... and are apt to ignore the local variant of the word. His supporters, including myself, are not inclined to sit back and let it happen... and so the war of words continues.

[Kaleva]

92. If monarchy is bad, where are all the immigrants of noble birth?

[Dont call me Shirley]

122. K & R!

[Marrah_G]

123. We won't see that type of socialism until the country splits into smaller countries

I could see it working well in the north east and the north west.