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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBen Carson Shattering Stereotype About Brain Surgeons Being Smart
WASHINGTON Brain surgeons, long burdened with the onerous reputation of being among the smartest people in the world, are expressing relief that the Republican Presidential candidate Ben Carson is shattering that stereotype once and for all. In interviews with brain surgeons across the country, the doctors revealed the enormous pressure they felt to live up to their professions inflated renown for intelligence before Carson entered the race. When people found out I was a brain surgeon they would always assume I was some kind of a genius, said Harland Dorrinson, a neurosurgeon in Toledo, Ohio. Now they are beginning to understand that you can know a lot about brain surgery and virtually nothing about anything else.
Dorrinson said that acquaintances used to view him as a source of wisdom on a wide range of subjects, but added, Ever since Ben Carson said that prisons make people gay, thats really fallen off.
The brain surgeon said that he would probably contribute to Carsons campaign to keep him in the race: every time he says something, it helps bring peoples unrealistic expectations about brain surgeons back down to earth.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/ben-carson-shattering-stereotype-about-brain-surgeons-being-smart
Human101948
(3,457 posts)God doesn't think He is a surgeon.
Apparently his big qualification for surgery was being excellent at Foosball.
mainstreetonce
(4,178 posts)who credits his skilled hands to teen years playing PAC man.
unblock
(52,436 posts)that seems to me to have relevance to surgery than foosball or pac-man. you know, sutures and such. could it be that not too many males knit? nah....
video games were descendants of military simulators, so games like pac-man are more in line with fighter pilot training than surgery.
MADem
(135,425 posts)table consoles and so forth did--fine motor responses to turn those corners and swift reactions to those things that would chase and eat you.
Nowadays, they use super glue a lot in surgery. I'm guessing they make the junior people do all the sewing, too.
mainstreetonce
(4,178 posts)but his brain belongs to FOX news.
beac
(9,992 posts)So Carson and God have being a cheater in common, apparently.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)won a little prize drawing recently started thanking God for giving it to her. I had my usual knee-jerk irritation -- it wasn't like it was the first time, or tenth, around here for that nonsense. As usual I imagined asking if she wasn't going to give it back since she didn't win it honestly. We'd all paid for our chances, after all. She was way too happy and nice for anything like that, of course.
Scientists say conservatives and liberals literally see moral issues differently. And of course, religious conservatives. Don't I believe it! But how about rationality and cognitive function? Carson is a man of science who also believes implicitly that the planet is only about 6000 years old or so. Very common phenomenon. No conflict. Both beliefs held at once.
Maybe that's why so many want that wall on the southern border. The ones in their heads work so well.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)He's pandering in the way he is required.
He's black, so he has to be more whackjobish than the rest.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Means that you have to out-crazy the craziest white guy in the room in order to appear half as legit.
unblock
(52,436 posts)or if that's not enough -- being a black republican who thinks he can actually win the nomination of a staunchly bigoted party?
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 21, 2015, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)
And the need to over-achieve in order to be accepted as an equal.
With Republicans, of course, this has to do with appearing as if you've lost your fucking mind. Black conservatives usually have to pander to whites in order to obtain the proper response from their white peers.
Always notice that the messages from "successful" black conservatives relate are usually tailored for white audiences. Black conservatives aren't talking to black people, because there's an inherent anti-blackness message in that kind of language. Black cons try to get ahead by making white conservatives feel good about themselves.
Black cons are opportunists, pure and simple. Most of the time they don't even believe half the shit that they say. You can always tell the crazy ones that actually do
Carson isn't one of them.
qwlauren35
(6,152 posts)that Carson is being paid to say these things. Because no black person could believe them.
yardwork
(61,748 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Many people in the Republican party are selfish nihilists. Trump and Carson are perfect examples of people without a need for a moral or ethical compass. Clinton too.
yardwork
(61,748 posts)Your gratuitous and casual comparison of Clinton to Ben Carson comes across as ill-informed, at best.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)rather than comparing Clinton to Republicans, I'm comparing Hillary and Republicans to nihilists who will say things in which they don't even believe, but which their corporate masters approve, in order to convince people to support them.
But speaking of contempt, I've noticed that the followers of certain individuals will often reflect that individual's characteristics.
yardwork
(61,748 posts)I'm old enough to know what happens when Republicans take over.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Ms. Clinton motivates about as well pushing a rope uphill and will bring us more Neville Chamberlain politics, whereas Sanders will make this country better and motivates the base to vote.
tblue37
(65,507 posts)narcissists, and both crave the adulation of fawning crowds.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Many examples of smart nut cases out there. I think he OD'ed on the fundie hateraide. I have read where his old friends don't recognize the man he has become.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
MADem
(135,425 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,334 posts)Brilliant and a complete whack job.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)When he first talked about it, I thought for sure that a camera crew was going to come around the corner...everybody would laugh and the Doctor would say "HA! I Gotcha!
No camera crew came out.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)When Will Smith shows Tommy Lee Jones that "just about everyone who works at the post office is a alien .
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)"different Alien perspective"
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)has six fingers on each hand. Obviously an alien.
Initech
(100,128 posts)(At least according to my brother, a medical school graduate, and some friends of ours) Surgeons are generally regarded as the biggest assholes in the medical community. I suspect that Dr. Carson is no different.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)it ain't rocket science.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Carly Fiorina has this issue as well. Both say things that wouldn't hold up as sensible in the most casual of conversations, but with an air of absolute comfort that no one will ever challenge them.
Maybe this is a vulnerability to which people in positions of power or accomplishment are especially susceptible.
They're used to people just nodding their heads quietly because they are the most respected person in the room.
Even when they are being complete idiots, they think no one will notice or dare to say anything?
treestar
(82,383 posts)would find that if they miraculously were elected, they would be in the WH two days when they realized they hate this job. They'd have to deal with compromise and opposition.
marmar
(77,109 posts)...... they're good at following prescribed processes and parroting what they've been taught, but wouldn't know an independent, original thought if they tripped over it.
BigDemVoter
(4,158 posts)I've known lots of "brilliant" physicians. "Brilliant" in terms of being a physician doesn't mean "well-informed", "well read" or anything along those lines. In fact, I find that in areas of hard science, often (not always) you will find many smart people who are off the chart IN THEIR AREAS but don't spend much time reading about other things.
angryvet
(181 posts)what book they read last. Surgery requires technical ability...they need to be able to make the connection between their brain and the knife. It doesn't require general knowledge. People make a huge mistake elevating this "great surgeon." He is like many I've known who you wonder how they remember how to get dressed in the morning.
tblue37
(65,507 posts)memorization, plus fine eye-hand coordination, to do the job well. It is nice if the auto mechanic or the surgeon is well-read, intellectually curious, and capable of doing more than just fixing the broken machine--nice, but not necessary.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)I think he's probably excellent in his field and "brilliant" in that area. (Didn't he perform some pioneering type of surgery?)
However, outside of that one area, not so much.
I used to work with a guy that had his PhD from MIT in some mathematical field. Brilliant if you give him any sort of math problem, but he also thinks Fox News is fair and balanced. When a more moderate Republican called him out on that, "Look, I'm a Republican, but even I can see that Fox is biased for Republicans..." the math guy's response was, "Well, if they are biased, everybody else is WAY more biased for the Democrats." In case you were wondering, this guy is white. It's almost like a switch is flipped with him - ON is him working through complex actuarial tables, OFF is mouth-breathing Freeper.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)differ from ours makes him a "mouth breather".
I'm also curious about your inclusion of his race. Who cares?
840high
(17,196 posts)liked and respected him. Will continue to do so.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)is about Carson and several replies were about him being a black Republican - I just wanted to point out that this guy was NOT black.
and, the former co-worker was pretty much a Freeper type once you got him beyond math questions.
OregonBlue
(7,755 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)proves he's a one-trick pony.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)lakercub
(659 posts)Much of society appears to attribute a great deal of all-around intelligence to individuals in certain fields. Doctors, engineers, lawyers, and theoretical scientists all seem to get credit for being generally brilliant, when, in fact, they probably aren't. I find this to be especially true in the applied science fields (doctors and engineers are two prime examples). I'm an electrical engineer, and when I tell people that, I start getting asked my opinions on many things because the presumption is anyone who has an engineering degree must be smart. Naturally, in my case, that's true , but the assumption is misguided.
It's true that engineers, doctors, and lawyers do get quite a bit of education, but it is often very specific education. If you come to me with questions about satellite communications, I will be a better resource for answers than some guy off the street (at least I'd better be). But that does not make me an expert on climate science, evolution, or vaccination. There are very smart individuals in all these fields who do branch out past their particular fields of study and are very knowledgeable on a wide range of topics. If they apply the rigor required to get through the schooling for their particular field to everyday knowledge, they will likely be able to learn a great deal because they have "learned how to to learn."
But many in these fields do nothing of the kind. They may know everything there is to know about their field but, since that is where their interests lie, they are wholly ignorant concerning anything outside that field. I work with some engineers who can absolutely dazzle with their breadth of knowledge and quick command of engineering facts. Unfortunately, once they leave the office, they are barely fit to tie their own shoes.
There is also a bias within the profession that, because we are highly educated, we have a highly honed ability to reason through that which we don't already know. But without putting in the time and effort to learn the facts about a particular topic, that particular line of thinking is typically absurdly wrong.
This is why you get doctors ignorantly commenting on climate change. The skills learned to be a brain surgeon are wonderful, but it doesn't make one a climate scientist no matter how much one thinks one knows. Doctors learn to apply biology, but that doesn't mean they necessarily understand the theories behind it, which is why we get doctors who are profoundly ignorant about evolution. Electrical engineers study quite a bit of physics and even some chemistry, but much of the theory behind it is lost to them. The goal is to learn to apply it, not necessarily master the theory. Only those willing to take the time will learn how the theories under gird what is seen in practice.
So Dr. Carson might very well be a brilliant brain surgeon. So what? That means nothing when it comes to his understanding of evolution or climate change. In fact, given how much intense and specific work I'm sure it took to become a brain surgeon, I'd be skeptical of his knowledge on most things that don't relate to brain surgery and some general medicine.
hunter
(38,340 posts)... not flying, but doing stuff he never talked about, and later working on the Apollo Project, which was his greatest pride.
His personal life was always a mess. Sure he could tie his shoelaces, but he didn't always remember to do it, so he usually he wore shoes without laces. His style of dress was unique. I think he was steampunk, born a century too soon. He loved brass and gold and leather and fine antique watches and vacuum tubes.
He was a wizard with titanium and other exotic materials, skills he'd acquired by means he never revealed. But outside his career he was a crackpot inventor, a seeker of space alien intelligence in the radio spectrum and by UFO observations, and an occasional Kennedy Assassination Conspiracy theorist.
Politically my grandfather was "conservative" but he thought highly of Kennedy, the President who had challenged the nation to land men on the moon, allowing my grandfather to figure out how to fabricate some various bits of metal that got us there.
So much as I admire my grandfather, he would have been a terrible President of the U.S.A..
Politics is a different sort of specialty.
Obama is one of this nation's great Presidents, what this nation needed after the Bush catastrophe.
Sanders and Clinton are both competent and experienced politicians.
The Republican Candidates, including Carson, are an evil clown car.
Unfortunately this nation has suffered many evil clown Presidents in my lifetime. Nixon, Reagan, the Bushes...
We mustn't let that happen again.
Skittles
(153,258 posts)but Carson sounds so incredibly stupid - it is very unsettling
UTUSN
(70,777 posts)that Carnival is very, very smart and should not be underestimated and dismissed as a clown. Proficiency in a specific activity (surgery; law school debating) does not equate with or translate into "smartness" in everything else.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)And I mean no offence to others with Asperger's. Ben is a combination of the condition and being a self satisfied asshole.
KG
(28,753 posts)he was fit ti run for prez.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I've noticed and started watching for that pattern ever since I picked up on the idea with Sarah Palin. It's also a very strong pattern in some people I know personally. They are very committed to their religion and can be very involved in the life of their church, family, whatever, but are often as ignorant as two bags of broken hammers when it comes to anything "outside" -- because they're not interested.
Also, I imagine their belief that their holy books contain all answers makes it extremely easy for them to avoid doing any homework about boring outside stuff -- that's strictly for those who cannot "see." But I suspect that egg comes after the chicken. I.e., personality > ignorance > fundamentalist religion > ignorance.
Mitt Romney fit that pattern. He's a smart, sophisticated man living a big life, but some who know him have commented that he is surprisingly ignorant about anything he doesn't actually need to know for his own business and church affairs.
And of course our best example...W, famous for astonishing ignorance long before he became famous as a president who boasted of consulting his "belly" for answers.
BTW, I've read that lack of interest in learning for the sake of knowledge does NOT apply to people of "open, mature religiosity." Very different breed from fundies.
DrBulldog
(841 posts). . . operating upon himself, and one time he cut a little too deep.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Gothmog
(145,789 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)cpompilo
(323 posts)FloridaBlues
(4,013 posts)Indeed they are smart but there's a few of them that lack common sense.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Is that it leads to specialization. For example, you start out studying English. Then, you narrow it down to Shakespeare. Then, you narrow that down to his sonnets. Then, you narrow that down to the grammar in his sonnets. Finally, you write your dissertation on "The misuse of the semi-colon in the later sonnets of Shakespeare." Just what the world has been waiting for.
As they say, when you do enough graduate work, you know more and more about less and less -- until pretty soon you know everything there is to know about nothing at all.
(You can use that on the next person waving their PhD around.)
3catwoman3
(24,088 posts)...Piled higher and Deeper explanation.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--a leveraged tactile feedback geomass delivery system.
Skittles
(153,258 posts)whenever I hear him speak, he sound so freaking STUPID - how it possible he was so successful as a surgeon?
moondust
(20,019 posts)Surgeons can be susceptible even without marinating in religious dogma.
Ino
(3,366 posts)Doctor.