Who gives a shit if he did or didn't build a fucking clock.....

[Logical]

If that is bothering you then you are clueless and missing the whole point of what happened to this kid!

WTF IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE???

[Iggo]

1. People who want you to ignore what happened to him. That's who.

[Logical]

2. +1000 nt

[msrizzo]

3. Yep....

That's pretty much what it is.

[TubbersUK]

12. +10000

[Baitball Blogger]

13. Well said.

It is a major red herring. They don't like the person so they will try to find some way to make him less likeable to kill any chances of empathy with the public.

Very big strategy used by Republicans, racists and the police.

[leftynyc]

17. Really?

Can you post a link to any comment that questions the clock that ALSO does not mention that his treatment was abominable? Or do you just want to pretend posters here are Islamophobes because it allows you to be sanctimonious?

[obnoxiousdrunk]

28. +100. n/t

[merrily]

33. I've noticed that, sometimes,

the very first post on a thread nails it.

[sarisataka]

4. The important point is

he didn't build a bomb...

and everyone involved knew that.

[Desert805]

5. Yeah, who cares if we get our facts straight!

Of course he shouldn't have been arrested. We all agree on that. What's wrong with discussing the rest of the story?

I know some feel it weakens their narrative that it wasn't a built from scratch clock, so anyone who notices becomes a "hater," but that's stupid. His arrest should be enough. You don't need to insult people who agree with you on the big picture, because they are hashing out details of the actual clock.

Yeesh. This shouldn't be this hard.

[countingbluecars]

8. But why is "hashing out the details"

necessary? Why?

[leftynyc]

18. Because it's important

to have the whole story and frankly I find it disturbing that there are those who don't think so. Kinda like sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming lalalalalalalalallal. What's your beef with knowing ALL the details or even discussing ALL the details? What are afraid of?

[countingbluecars]

23. A 14 year old kid put

together a clock. A bunch of bigoted school people and cops treated him like a criminal. What other details do you need? What are you afraid of?

[leftynyc]

31. Well, you obviously think you

already have all the facts so why would I bother with you? I'm a NYer and have more reason to look sideways at something like this than you apparently do. It's entirely possible he was looking for the reaction he got. It certainly has turned out well for him, hasn't it?

[Comrade Grumpy]

85. Are you seriously trying to insinuate that the kid cooked this all up? Evidence, please.

Or go back to hiding under your bed.

[gollygee]

30. Why is it important?

What difference does it make?

[leftynyc]

32. Why do lawyers

and prosecutors find motive important? Gee, I can't imagine.

[gollygee]

34. Because they're trying to determine if someone has done something illegal

Do you think he did something illegal?

[leftynyc]

35. No

Motive usually comes after the person is already charged. Motive makes your case stronger. Do I think it's possible he was looking for exactly the reaction he got? Perhaps.

[gollygee]

36. He's a 14-year-old kid

I think he just thought it was cool.

[leftynyc]

37. And you don't think14

year old's can be manipulative? Are you a parent?

[gollygee]

38. Yeah

Of a kid about that age too. I think he just thought it was cool.

[fbc]

44. I agree

I think he thought it was cool. But I think he thought it was cool because it looks like Hollywood bomb.

[leftynyc]

48. And I think it's well within

the realm of possibility that he got exactly the reaction he was looking for. That the imbeciles in that texas school obliged him made this a viral story.

[fbc]

49. I think that's the most likely explanation

[Comrade Grumpy]

87. And I think it's well within

the realm of possibility that space aliens put him up to it. I'll match my evidence, er, unfounded speculation, against yours.

[roody]

121. Then he is really really smart.

[gollygee]

63. It only has a vague resemblence

in that it has LED lights and is in a different container. It doesn't look like a bomb, real or imagined. Hollywood fake bombs have something that looks like explosive material, and enough electronics to actually make a bomb, and they wouldn't be the size of a pencil box.

[uppityperson]

94. Which is why he kept telling people it was a clock, so they'd think it was a bomb?

w.t.f.

[fbc]

104. sure, it was a clock once he got in trouble

Yet he could not explain why he took a clock out of its case and put it in a little suitcase.

We still haven't actually heard an explanation for why he did it.

[uppityperson]

116. When asked at any time, he said it was a clock.

"Yet he could not explain why he took a clock out of its case and put it in a little suitcase. " Seriously? THAT is your take on this whole thing? He said he made a clock (oh no, he didn't make a clock). He said it was a clock (he said it was a clock once he got in trouble). He said he made a clock ("Yet he could not explain why he took a clock out of its case and put it in a little suitcase. &quot

[druidity33]

125. That's a PENCIL case...

just sayin'...

[Human101948]

126. I got censored because I said that a few days back....

I noted that making something that could be taken for a bomb was what I would have done when I was that age.

That does not diminish the overreaction and profiling that took place.

[Adrahil]

129. How the hell can it be taken for a bomb....

... without any explosives.. Even fake explosives. People watch too damned much 24 for their own good. They think a digital time display and some wires is a bomb. Idiocy.

[fbc]

131. yeah same

It apparently offends people when you introduce facts that may not conform to their chosen narrative.

[jeff47]

67. Sure! He wanted people to think it was a bomb!

That's why he kept saying it was a clock!!

Dear god this has to be one of the stupidest arguments ever made on DU.

[leftynyc]

71. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

It seems you may be the only one on the thread that doesn't understand my meaning. How sad for you.

[jeff47]

72. Considering every time you have claimed he intended to provke

you have received a or verbal equivalent, I don't think it's me with the "obtuse" problem.

[leftynyc]

73. Actually, you're the ONLY

one who has challenged my theory. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. And it's just a freeking theory - no need to get your knickers in a twist about it. This IS a discussion board. Or do you only like it when you're in a echo chamber?

[jeff47]

76. You're right, I conflated your stupid posts with FBC's stupid posts

that said the same thing.

And it's just a freeking theory - no need to get your knickers in a twist about it. This IS a discussion board. Or do you only like it when you're in a echo chamber?

Which is why we aren't allowed to discus your stupid theory. Because this is a discussion board!!!!

If the kid only wanted to provoke, he would have:
1) Not bothered to actually assemble something that worked
2) Showed it first to the least-electronically-literate teacher, not the most-electronically-literate teacher.

Also, you have apparently forgotten that the English teacher that blew this whole thing up only found out about it because the alarm went off. Not because he was showing off. That also makes no sense if his goal was to provoke.

You deciding to turn this into "he meant to provoke" is also a fantastic way to minimize the massive and stupid over-reaction. That's why it's the current fad on right-wing boards. Thanks for bringing it here!!

Sure, you're going to claim the overreaction is a separate issue, but by smearing the kid, you are justifying the reaction.

[uppityperson]

96. ad hominem?

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

[Scootaloo]

106. Wow. You really can't handle the idea that there are no nefarious motives, can you?

[LanternWaste]

79. I find it bemusing you're treating an irrelevancy as though it were somehow material

Much as I find it bemusing you're treating an irrelevant editirial as though it were somehow material, and then rationalizing it as being pertinent...

(Space provided below free of charge to add more irrelevant details in hopes of validating your bias. Maybe his hair style was incorrectly labeled...)



"What are afraid of?" Spiders the size of horses drag racing around the strip at night... for all its relevance.

[Comrade Grumpy]

84. I can tell you what I'm not afraid of: A 14-year-old kid messing around with electronics.

[uppityperson]

95. Why is it important to deflect what happened to him with "did he build it from scratch"? Serious

question.

[Marr]

100. +1 /nt

[Adrahil]

109. What difference do you think this makes?

Will it make what happened to him OK if he just placed a disassembled clock in a different case?

Would it make his interest in technology any less commendable?

This is a right-wing attempt to change the conversation. Don't fall for it! Don't let them do it!

[Human101948]

127. Trying, as some people have, to portray Ahmed as an idiot savant is ridiculous...

It's just as ridiculous as those who are trying to portray him as a Muslim terrorist.

Both are attempts to propagandize the incident.

Being skeptical of either portrayal does not excuse the treatment he received.

[Adrahil]

128. As Lomony Snicket would say, it's all the wrong questions....

Even if his accomplish,ent is overstated by some, my point is that by moving the conversation away from the treatment he was subjected to plays right into the hands of the bigots. Don't do it.

He's a typical smart, geeky kid. He's not the second coming of Steve Jobs, but he is smart and enthusiastic. We need to encourage that.

[Logical]

9. There is no rest of the story!!! I dont care if he is a genius or not....

You people jealous or mad he is going to whitehouse? How does it matter?

[pnwmom]

61. You nailed it. They're jealous. n/t

[treestar]

14. + line a million

Some people just cannot separate issues.

[Adrahil]

15. It's a classic mis-direction.

Disassembling items and reconfiguring them is an important part of building understanding for how things work. But that's all completely beside the point, and a distraction.

A bomb has explosives. A fake bomb would have fake explosives. This had neither, so CLEARLY not a bomb or fake bomb.

Talking about whether or not this was a "scratch built" clock or reconfigured components is completely irrelevant.

[fbc]

51. but...

To use your logic:

Beginner electronics projects do not use AC power. This has an AC power cord and a transformer so CLEARLY it was not a beginner's electronic project.

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. I don't think you're using his logic. Or any logic, for that matter.

But yeah, instead of putting him in handcuffs, it might have been more productive to explain to Ahmed the problem with having mains voltage in an uninsulated case.

[fbc]

60. What if the teachers/police overreacted AND this was a stunt meant to provoke a reaction?

One doesn't necessarily cancel the other. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. If it was a stunt he would not have shown it to his engineering teacher first thing. n/t

[jeff47]

68. If it was a stunt, why'd he keep insisting it was a fucking clock?

[Adrahil]

86. Is there any evidence for that?

Seriously.... anyone vaguely familiar with electronics would not be in the least suspicious of that project. I do hobby electronics (in addition to being an actual engineer). There is nothing in that project that would make me suspicious. What's there?

A power cord. A back-up battery. Both of those are connected to a micro-controller board. the micro-controller is connected to a display, a speaker, and a user interface card (with buttons). NOTHING there is suspicious. If you were going to use this to trigger explosives, the obvious (and easiest) way to do would be to use the speaker wires. The speaker, however, is still attached. If he were making a fake bomb, those speaker wires would be attached to fake explosives.

The only people who be alarmed by this, are people who watch too damned much "24" and have no idea that a bomb actually requires explosives, not just a clock.

[Comrade Grumpy]

88. What if pigs could fly?

[jeff47]

66. Official projects don't. This was his own side project.

Hence he didn't follow the official path.

As for the AC power cord and transformer, they came from the clock he disassembled.

[Adrahil]

80. Errr..... what?

Disassembling and AC appliance is about as beginner a project as they come. If he were building a clock from components you MIGHT have a point, though adding a transformer rectifier to a project isn't a big deal.

But none of that has ANYTHING to do with the fact that this project does not resemble a bomb. A bomb has explosives. This does not. Not even fake explosives.

And even the police say there is no evidence at all that he ever claimed it was a bomb.

[underpants]

64. Yep

[Warren Stupidity]

91. It is an argument straight from the gungeon.

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. The degree of customization Ahmed applied to his project...

... is as germane "a fact" as the color of his shoelaces.

[Bettie]

59. The point isn't whether the clock was from scratch or not

the point is that it WASN'T A BOMB and everyone involved knew that.

Or is the point "he's dumb because he didn't make the whole thing from scratch". Is it that important that you feel smarter than a 14 year old kid.

Again, the point is that it wasn't a bomb, it was a clock. No one really thought it was a bomb, the kid never said it was anything but a clock and he was treated terribly.

[randome]

6. Those who are jealous he's getting attention.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Logical]

10. True, and they are idiots. Nt

[n2doc]

16. Absolutely agree

There is truth, and then there is meaningless trivia used to obscure.

[leftynyc]

19. Right

It couldn't POSSIBLY be that knowing ALL the facts is always a good idea.

[tularetom]

7. He didn't build a fucking bomb, that's all that counts

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. I'm curious when people are going to send Josh Welch free Pop-Tarts as a consolation gift.

[ryan_cats]

21. We must work together

We must work together as I made that exact point the other day at the Jute mill.

[kcr]

83. Awwwww n/t

[Gothmog]

20. Agreed

The fact that Ahmed was arrested for these actions is all that matters. A non-Muslim child would have been treated very differently

[JoePhilly]

22. I'm enjoying how upset the RW is about this.

I don't care what the kid was building so long as it makes the RW freak out.

[mcar]

24. Well said

Thank you.

[WinkyDink]

25. Real killers always spoil things for the rest of us.

[SoapBox]

26. If it was a suspected bomb,

Why didn't they evacuate the school?

And what happened to the science teacher who looked at it and then just said to put it away?

And that English teacher...they scream in hysterics, run from the room to call the police? What was the time frame?

(The hate for this geeky kid is thick.)

[GliderGuider]

27. +10E8

Way to avoid the point, everybody!

[L. Coyote]

29. Why, the coolest man on earth, of course.

?1442428131

[JoeyT]

39. It's vitally important that a 14 year old not use a word wrong.

Much more important than racist cops and teachers.

The people upset about the word "invented" can at least use the fig leaf of being ridiculously pedantic. The people saying "Well he probably built it because he knew it would get that reaction." don't even have that. If the racism is so blatant that everyone should know in advance that building something that looks absolutely nothing like a bomb to anyone with the slightest bit of common fucking sense will set off this kind of reaction, that makes it *worse*, not better.

It's the equivalent of saying "Those negros knew better than to sit at that lunch counter. They were just asking for trouble.".

[fbc]

45. I have a problem with your logic here

You say it "looks absolutely nothing like a bomb to anyone with the slightest bit of common fucking sense"

Yet it certainly seems that a lot of people thought he built a clock... Are you saying those are the people that do have common sense?

You seem to be saying everyone should be able to look at his project and know it's not a bomb when those same people can't even identify the difference between a beginner's electronics project and the guts of a commercial clock that still has an AC cord and transformer attached to it.

[JoeyT]

123. Nope, other way around.

There's no reason anyone should have thought it was a bomb. Not even a movie bomb or hoax bomb.

[fbc]

40. I give a shit

He didn't build a clock.

If your argument depends on him building a clock, then your argument is invalid.

If your argument does not depend on him building a clock, then stop saying he built a clock.

[gollygee]

41. What argument?

The argument is that he didn't deserve to be arrested because it was only a clock. It is not dependant upon him inventing anything or building anything from scratch.

What argument do you think people are making?

[fbc]

43. It was "only a clock" before he removed it from its casing and put it in a little suitcase

Are you saying he would have been arrested if he brought in the clock as it was originally sold?

[gollygee]

46. He shouldn't have been arrested in the first place

And it isn't a little suitcase. It's a pencil box. One of my kids has one that looks just like it but has a camoflauge pattern. It doesn't look anything like a suitcase when you see it in person (largely because of the size) and that clock didn't look anything like a bomb. It had just a few little bits in it and nothing explosive.

[fbc]

47. Maybe the arrest was a little much

But bringing something like that to school certainly deserved a suspension. He could have killed someone with that transformer rolling around loose like that.

[randome]

50. You have got to be kidding.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[fbc]

52. No, I am not kidding.

That is a dangerous device.

There is a reason you do not see beginner's electronic projects use AC power - it is dangerous.

[SwankyXomb]

92. Don't give yourself a hernia

while moving them goalposts.

[catrose]

42. I assumed that he had something like a Heath kit or Radio Shack kit

and built the clock from that. Removing the guts of one clock and hooking up into a different container is similar (and both are beyond the skills of the critics). It's not incorrect to say that he built his clock; he used manufactured parts and repackaged it in another container--AND IT WORKED.

And screaming over how much exactly he built does ignore the response to him, still unjustified under any conditions.

The only clock kit that I know of that you build from absolute scratch is the Paper Clock book, where you cut out all the pieces from cardstock and glue them together. But it's been quite a few years since my child and I were building kits.

[Adrahil]

130. Yep....

It would be slightly more advanced to actually solder some components onto a board, but not really different in terms of complexity. This is a beginner electronics project. It should be commended and encouraged, not dissected by know-nothing morons.

[trumad]

55. Yep

It's driving me batty.

[One_Life_To_Give]

56. I do

Because his invite to places like MIT are based upon a 14yr old having constructed the clock himself. It's why people like me want to know exactly what he used as it tells us how extraordinary or ordinary his feat was. Does it change the tragedy of the Police Islamophobia, of course not.

[jeff47]

69. He's getting a fucking tour, not admission.

The kid is starting to play with electronics. That means taking apart things that work and repackaging them. It's how you start learning the very basics.

And every local official shit on him for it.

MIT and the rest are trying to keep him from abandoning this path. That's it.

[One_Life_To_Give]

74. By Comparison

Had a high school kid doing facial recognition at a recent Pi Contest. And yes my local electronics retailer sells kits for various parts to build your own robot. So yes we all started by taking old things apart. I can be critical of just what level of skill was shown. Interfacing a 7 segment to a Pi would be cool for 14yr old. Putting a bunch of already working circuits into an enclosure, somewhat less.

[jeff47]

75. There isn't any particular age requirement for starting down this path.

The kid's a novice. It doesn't matter if he's 14 or 41, he's still a novice. And still should be encouraged to continue, instead of derided. Either by the authorities, or the people shouting "not good enough" from the stands.

[Mariana]

89. I built an electromagnet in 3rd grade

from a drawing in a book. There may have been written instructions as well. Was it in the school science textbook or some book that was floating around the house? I don't remember, this was a long time ago, would have been about 1974. My dad provided the materials (a dry cell, some wire, a big nail, and some washers for it to pick up) and supervised the project, but it was my idea to do it, I went to him with the book and told him I wanted to make this. I did bring it to school, showed my teacher and all the kids took turns picking up washers with it. I got extra credit for science.

I didn't invent anything, I just copied a picture and/or followed some instructions. You're right, it's exactly how you begin to learn. The next Christmas I got an electronics project kit - my folks did the right thing getting that for me, for sure!

[Logical]

108. Oh FFS, your just jealous! LOL. nt

[roody]

120. It's based on his being arrested

and treated like a criminal.

[Bettie]

57. Exactly

the reaction isn't about the clock, it is about the treatment he received and the automatic assumption that it was a bomb.

And it is saddening that there are people here who seem to think he deserved that treatment because he didn't do the clock the way they wanted him to.

[greatlaurel]

58. Logical, you are spot on. Thank you for posting this. Cannot believe such posters on this site.

That meme about the boy not building a clock is straight right wing propaganda and, of course, the right wing specialty of victim blaming. It is stunning that such a post has any recs and should have been taken down as soon as it appeared. An earlier post claiming the same thing was locked. It is embarrassing to all members here.

Thank you for your post.

[underpants]

62. The right wing media threw smoke to cloud the issue

[jeff47]

70. And several of DUers are trying to blow that smoke over here. (nt)

[oberliner]

99. That is a mendacious misreading of reality

Please withdraw the comment.

[jeff47]

101. No.

The entire point of this line of attack is to diminish the kid. "He doesn't deserve what he is getting".

I really don't care if you came up with it on your own or not.

[DustyJoe]

77. skools and the police

The so so many recent zero tolerance broughahas brought on by school teachers, principals, school police lately shows the stupidity rampant in the school structure.

A digital clock is NOT a bomb without bomb material
a pop tart shaped like a gun is NOT a gun
a writing assignment stating the pupil was going to kill the neighbors dinosaur is NOT a death threat
a plastic knife in a lunchbox to cut a sandwich is NOT a deadly weapon
a 5 yr olds GI JOE removable 1 1/2 inch plastic m16 replica is NOT a deadly weapon

These overreactions happen in school systems country wide every day. 5 yr olds, 14 yr olds are put in handcuffs, grilled without representation or having a parent present every day it seems.

Who knows what the 14 yr old intentions were or if his kinda radical daddy spurred him on.
The glaring difference in this case is that this student is a moooslimb !!!!

[abelenkpe]

78. Bigots and those who want to excuse

Bigotry and fear mongering?

[oberliner]

81. People who care about accuracy in reporting?

I honestly do not understand why one cannot stand in total solidarity with Ahmed and in complete outrage against the injustice that he dealt with and also be curious if he actually built a clock or not.

It would almost be an even more impressive feat of his if he actually brought the thing into school because he knew ignorant people would freak out about it and he could use the experience to highlight said ignorance. He is apparently a very smart kid, after all.

[kcr]

82. It's the same type of clueless that

brought us But Sandra Bland didn't use her turn signal! That's against the law!

Going to add What about the pop tarts!!!!! to the list.

[Warren Stupidity]

90. Seriously.

But no, somebody just wants to make sure all the facts are correct. Really. Nudge nudge wink wink. Know what I mean?

[oberliner]

98. Lord protect us from correct facts!

They are so scary you can only speak of them in nudges and winks.

[ScreamingMeemie]

105. Concern trollers gotta troll...

...and troll they do...

[uppityperson]

93. +++++++++++++++++

[greatlaurel]

97. K and R!

[orpupilofnature57]

102. They're paranoid racists ..

[Scootaloo]

107. If his name were not Ahmed Mohamed, this thread would have three posts, all agreeing with you

But his name IS Ahmed Mohamed, and so there are al ot of DU'ers who are intensely, blindlingly angry that he came out of this well.

[oberliner]

111. If his name were not Ahmed Mohamed, he wouldn't have been arrested

The only reason he was arrested in the first place was due to ignorance and anti-Muslim hysteria.

The fact that he has come out of this well is the best part of the story.

[Scootaloo]

112. That too.

But the fact that there are so many here who are angling for "yeah, but what was he REALLY up to?! Huh?!" is another aspect of the anti-Muslim bullshit.

[Bonx]

110. He probably still would have been in trouble building a fucking clock

We're talking about Texas.

[Rex]

113. People that like to troll and yank your chain. Did it work?

He built a clock, only RW trolls are saying he did not. So please...don't feed the trolls.

[sheshe2]

117. ...

[GeorgeGist]

114. Assholes give a shit.

[Person 2713]

115. K&R Really WTF is wrong with these people?

[U4ikLefty]

118. He's a Muslim.

Some are suspicious of Muslims. We see a few in this thread.

It's sad.

[akbacchus_BC]

119. I think it was a Science Project but I could be wrong!

Regardless, the shitstorm is unbelievable!

[rbrnmw]

122. People who want to throw shade

On a 14 year old Muslim kid. Usually rightwing bigots

[mhatrw]

124. He didn't cry at his mother's funeral! n/t