"Why we can't support police unions"

[Dawson Leery]

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/black-lives-matter-patrick-lynch-ferguson/

"ast weekend, UAW Local 2865 became the first local to call for the expulsion of a police union from the AFL-CIO, insisting in a resolution that the federation kick out the International Union of Police Associations (IUPA). It was a laudable move that evinced a commitment to social movement unionism — other locals should follow suit.

The UAW local, which is comprised of 13,000 teaching assistants and other student workers on University of California campuses, specifically decried cop unions’ lobbying against oversight, support for politicians opposed to police accountability, and dogged defense of officers accused of abuse.

“Historically and contemporarily,” the resolution reads, “police unions serve the interests of police forces as an arm of the state, and not the interests of police as laborers.”

[msongs]

1. organized crime does not belong in the unions, mafia or otherwise nt

[99th_Monkey]

2. Woot! It's about fucking time real unions called-out cops phony "unions"

it's a disgrace to the entire union movement to give killer-cops a "union" fig leaf to hide behind.

[TeddyR]

3. All cops are killers?

Every one?

[99th_Monkey]

5. No. Not what I said

Let me spell it out for you.

I am referring to the epidemic of police murdering unarmed citizens (mostly of color) in
cold blood; and then having the police "union" respond by blaming the victims, blaming
Black Lives Matter, threatening the populous saying "like us or we won't protect you either",
and raise money to hire the very best lawyers to have killer-cops exonerated.

You haven't noticed ^this^ ugliness ?

Of course ALL cops are not "killer cops" but most cops DO cover-up for them, which is
reflects very poorly on ALL cops, and esp on their so-called "unions".

[hifiguy]

19. It's that 85% of cops who are rotten or cover for the rotten ones

who screw it up for the 15% of decent ones.

[99th_Monkey]

20. Exactly .. it takes an extraordinarily brave, all-too-rare, cop to buck the Blue tide. See Serpico.

Working as a uniformed patrolman, Frank Serpico excels at every assignment. He moves on to plainclothes assignments, where he slowly discovers a hidden world of corruption and graft among his own colleagues. After witnessing cops commit violence, take payoffs, and other forms of police corruption, Serpico decides to expose what he has seen, but is harassed and threatened by his peers. His struggle leads to infighting within the police force, problems in his personal relationships, and his life being threatened. Finally, after being shot in the face during a drug bust on February 3, 1971, he testifies before the Knapp Commission, a government inquiry into NYPD police corruption between 1970 and 1972. After receiving a New York City Police Department Medal of Honor and a disability pension, Serpico resigns from the force and moves to Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpico

[yeoman6987]

4. Keep this up and unions will be gone in 10 years

We are handing the Repugs ammo.

[99th_Monkey]

6. Huh? holding police accountable is 'helping Republicans" now? how does that work? nt

[yeoman6987]

11. Looks like most agree with me.

Sorry but you are wrong on this issue.

[99th_Monkey]

14. Actually it's 2 you, 3 me, at this point. Sorry.

but it's not even about how many on an anonymous discussion board agree with me
or not; it's about police "unions" being thoroughly corrupted mouthpieces for racists
white supremacists with badges and guns.
http://thegrio.com/2015/05/12/fbi-white-supremacists-law-enforcement/
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf

I don't give a rats ass how many agree with me or not. If the union movement is THAT
corrupt & desperate for members -- that it's willing to help give "cover" for white supremacists
with badges and guns murdering black people -- then it's small wonder unionism is in such
deep trouble these daze.

[yeoman6987]

32. Ok you win. The country doesn't though

This country has a low percentage of workers in unions already. The federal Government and law enforcement are two largest. Get rid of one of them and union members goes to what? 5 percent of the country? Doesn't sound good to me. You chip away and at the end you have none.

[yeoman6987]

35. Actually numbers are worse then even I thought

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf


Only 11.2 percent of workers are under unions. Majority are federal workers, law enforcement and education.

[Omaha Steve]

22. He is not talking about holding police accountable

He is talking about elimination of police unions.

If you haven't noticed all the anti-union laws Republicans are passing nationwide.

State, county, municipal, public utilities etc. employees are not guaranteed the right to be in or join a union. Many states vary on how these employees are treated. Some don't allow teachers unions etc.

Eliminate one class of unions and the dominos start falling is what we are getting at.

Dealing with bad cops is totally different.

OS

[99th_Monkey]

24. The "domino effect" is about as true here, as it was when Johnson said that about Viet Nam.

I think we need to revitalize and rebuild the union movement, not denigrate it by pandering
to racist cops, many of whom are out-and-out white supremacists.

You may be unaware that white supremacists have been infiltrating police departments across the
country, which has been going on for years now. it's no coincidence that most police murders of
citizens are people of color.
http://thegrio.com/2015/05/12/fbi-white-supremacists-law-enforcement/
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf

I don't think the say to revitalize unionism is by being in solidarity with "unions" that enable and
contribute to the current epidemic of police murdering unarmed citizens (mostly of color) in cold blood;
where the police "unions" respond by blaming the victims, blaming Black Lives Matter, threatening
the citizenry, saying "like us or we won't protect you either", and raising money to hire the very best
lawyers to have killer-cops exonerated.

[Omaha Steve]

26. Prosecute and jail the bad cops

Edit to add that forcing them out of the AFL-CIO is fine with me. That action doesn't eliminate the union in any way.

Just don't advocate to eliminate the union. Simple concept.

Disclaimer: The last couple of years of my career as a city employee I was a uniformed civilian Info Tech Specialist. I was in AFSCME, not the police union. But is a complaint was made against me, I would have been in front of the internal affairs unit.

[Starry Messenger]

25. +100000

[TBF]

30. ^ Agree. nt

[Omaha Steve]

7. I agree 100%

Support no. Exist yes.

[pintobean]

8. The AFL-CIO has a hard enough time keeping members

They shouldn't be tossing any.

[former9thward]

28. They aren't.

A group of grad students at UC hardly represents the views of organized labor.

[pintobean]

33. I'm aware of that.

Just pointing out one reason they're ignorant. The AFL-CIO is not an extension of the Democratic Party. Much of their problem is the perception that they care more about candidates than they do their members.

[jtuck004]

10. Some of the ammo is being used by police to commit the homicide of unarmed black folk.

And others.

[Chakab]

12. You know who's really handing them ammo? The rank-and-file in the police unions, who OVERWHELMINGLY

vote Republican and against the interests of organized labor.

[Dawson Leery]

16. +1,000,000

[Ikonoklast]

13. Republicans and right-wing authoritarians are police union members.

Good riddance. Never saw a cop on his day off walk in solidarity on any picket line I ever walked.

[pintobean]

34. I have.

[LiberalArkie]

29. People look at unions like the FOP and think that all unions are like that. Unions started getting

a bad rap because of Jimmy Hoffa. Now people look at the police and know because of the union they can kill who they want. When the FOP can't protect the officers any more, then things will change. People used to be proud of unions until they were taken over by the mafia. Unions were good for workers and good for business.

[moondust]

9. Authoritarian unions.

Bad idea to further empower a group that already has too much power (that some like Patrick Lynch obviously can't handle). However, like any other group that doesn't make the rules they need some way to act collectively on some issues like salary and benefits.

[Ed Suspicious]

15. And there it is. Right on.

“police unions serve the interests of police forces as an arm of the state, and not the interests of police as laborers.”

[TBF]

17. In any union you have the leadership and the members -

I think we need to think very carefully about purging any unions. Although I would expect this from the corporate wing of the democratic party. Often I agree with the articles in Jacobin, but not this time.

[99th_Monkey]

18. I think we need to revitalize and rebuild the union movement, not denigrate it by pandering

to racist cops, many of whom are out-and-out white supremacists.

You may be unaware that white supremacists have been infiltrating police departments across the
country, which has been going on for years now. it's no coincidence that most police murders of
citizens are people of color.
http://thegrio.com/2015/05/12/fbi-white-supremacists-law-enforcement/
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf

I don't think the say to revitalize unionism is by being in solidarity with "unions" that enable and
contribute to the current epidemic of police murdering unarmed citizens (mostly of color) in cold blood;
where the police "unions" respond by blaming the victims, blaming Black Lives Matter, threatening
the citizenry, saying "like us or we won't protect you either", and raising money to hire the very best
lawyers to have killer-cops exonerated.

[TBF]

21. Very general and mostly redacted documents -

do we have serious numbers on this? Definitely open to learning more about white supremacists in police departments but I have to see more than an FBI document in which much of it is blocked out. Also would like to know how many of infiltrated management - that would be very interesting info.

[99th_Monkey]

23. Yes it's heavily redacted, which does tell us something.

The fact that this IS so heavily redacted tells us something: i.e. that even the FBI want to keep the public in the dark about white supremacists infiltrating law enforcement. After all, the FBI IS law enforcement themselves, so no big surprise; but if this report's findings suggested that "nah nothing to see here", why would it be redacted at all? But no, there are HUGE pieces of this that are missing. So what you say is true, but we need to be at least a little suspicious as to why that is.

Also, to the extent that it's true, that WS have been infiltrating police departments, it would go a long way towards helping explain the otherwise inexplicable ongoing epidemic of cops murdering people of color.

[TBF]

27. Sure - I agree with that.

Just wondered if there was anything else out there. Regarding the cops murdering people of color I think that has been going on a very long time. It's about time a light was shown on that.

I'm not sure that destroying the unions is the way to fight it however. If anything it will just lower pay and attract less desirable candidates. George Zimmerman didn't make it on to a police force. But he will if we destroy all standards.

Look, I'm not standing up for the outrageous behavior either. I do want you to know that. I'm just not sure if going after their union is the way to weed out bad apples and/or fight for systemic changes.

[Kingofalldems]

31. Why are cop unions continually calling people

and asking for money? Don't they collect dues?

I have been in a union 40+ years and we have never asked for outside money. What is up with the cops?

[bluestateguy]

36. I have long favored a Scott Walker law upon police unions

To strip away their collective bargaining rights.

[Dawson Leery]

37. kick