All during the Zimmerman trial, I pointed out the logical inconsistencies in his "ambush" story

[Tommy_Carcetti]

And people, even here, told me I didn't know what I was talking about.

And yet, what we've seen since from Zimmerman the very minute he walked out of the Sanford courthouse a free man is an impulsive, ugly, hateful and out of control human being.

One who very likely was extremely pissed off that rainy night because his wife had argued with him and then to top it off he saw one of those "fucking punks" in his neighborhood, the kind of "asshole who always gets away."

[Dr. Strange]

1. I gotta tell you...

it's astounding to me that he is still alive.

[FreakinDJ]

7. Broke - can't find a job, no girl will touch him

cant take a shit without some one on twitter tweeting about it

No - his life's prospects are fairly dismal

on edit - they even took his guns away from him

[SoCalMusicLover]

16. No Girl Would Touch Him?

Wrong. While I'm a Nice Single Guy with no companion, he still seems to do fine with the ladies. His ex keeps going back to him, and even when he beats the crap out of her, she still is willing to be with him.

The evil bad boys always seem to have women after them. The kid in Colorado gets letters daily from admirers.

So don't you worry about ol' George. He's doing just fine.

[7962]

18. Isnt that the damn truth? I've never been able to figure it out.

[jehop61]

36. Would any nice guy

even want a woman who could be "charmed"by the local likes of Zimmerman?

[Skittles]

45. you'd be surprised

very often the "nice guys" are simply boring, and blame the gals for not wanting them

[Human101948]

76. Yep, there's nothing like slugging a woman to spice things up...

But when it comes to fighting with your significant other, the rules and fights are completely different.

It’s arguments that end in being closer than ever, rather than in separate rooms. It’s a sexually-charged act that only has one type of reconciliation: make-up sex.

http://elitedaily.com/dating/just-fighting-make-sex/866375/

[ProfessorGAC]

86. That's What My Wife Said, When She Was A Teenager

And probably in college too. Per her family, i was the first nice guy she dated. (The only with an advanced education too.)

Worked for us. Been married 35 years.

[Marr]

91. They often lack any confidence, too.

I consider myself a very nice guy, but 'nice' has never drawn any interest. People like confidence. Nice people certainly can be confident, but assholes almost always are.

[Skittles]

111. you nail it

I have been fortunate in that I have ALWAYS known the difference.....guys who would beat on a woman steer clear of me like the plague

[MillennialDem]

140. No, nice guys are not nice. Most "nice guys" are guys who can't get laid and hate women

because of it.

See why this isn't nice? They assume women owe them sex.

[kcr]

154. Yep

If someone constantly has to talk up how nice they are, chances are they aren't. They should find out what exactly it is that is turning people off and fix that. Often it's exactly what you say; that feeling of entitlement. People can smell that a mile away. Too self focused and spending too much time worrying about what everyone else is getting that they aren't, and feeling entitled to it. Doing things for others with expectation of reward rather than establishing a bond and connection. That's bad news, and people who are healthy want nothing to do with it.

[FreakinDJ]

56. You got a "Broken Picker"

Nice Guys don't do well with women that aren't worth being with in the first place

Try someone with an advanced education, religious values and Without a sordid past. In other words quit looking for the "Wounded Bird" and look for someone more your equal

[MoonchildCA]

88. Religous values?

[FreakinDJ]

96. Your not the person I replied to

Just as the Pope can have Liberal/Progressive values.

Not all Religion is based on the twisted mis-interpretations of the bible we see the religious right claiming to be the justification for their obvious bigotry

[Skittles]

112. you do not need religion to do the right thing

that's a thumper assertion

from Penn Jillette:
The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine.

[kcr]

155. I don't care that I'm not the person you replied to

I'm going to tell you that it's bullshit that only religious women are worth picking.

[FreakinDJ]

158. Definitely not some one seeking Negative Attention

You know the type of folks who "Eavs drop into a conversation just so they can start an argument, telling everyone what to think and how to act just like a "Right-Wing Evangelical Christians who claim they alone know the one true meaning of the Bible and want to tell women what to do with their body"

Those are the ones to avoid

[Hoyt]

2. Exactly. Those same people, mostly gun fanciers who could see themselves in Zman's situation, said

Zman wasn't a racist. I remember those disgusting discussions well.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. The weird thing though is that I had always seen Zimmerman as a "soft" racist

One who didn't profess any outward hate towards black people but had in his mind a bigoted stereotype of them that drove his actions towards them.

But if you dare read that cretin's Twitter, there's no doubt he's full-on KKK styled racist. If he wasn't one in February 2012, he certainly is one now.

[Electric Monk]

9. He's Clayton Bigsby

[Hoyt]

10. One of Chappelle's greatest works. Love his stuff.

[Major Hogwash]

70. I miss Dave Chappelle.

I don't know what the hell happened, but man, is his absence ever noticeable.

[Maeve]

12. there is an old saying..."You can never forgive

the person you have wronged." Hate becomes a defense against knowing how badly you acted.

[Chemisse]

34. Spot on. n/t

[GGJohn]

24. And another false statement from you.

It was the FBI who said their investigation didn't find any reason to believe that the Trayvon murder was racial related, others were just citing the FBI report.

[Hoyt]

52. Nope, folks like you who symphatized with Zman said it. I think the BS

was something like he had a Hispanic mother, so couldn't be a racist. And Martin scared him, so he had the right to shoot him center mass. Zman's stalking and intimidating Martin with a gun didn't matter.

[GGJohn]

53. You just can't resist lying about me can you?

I would like you to post a link of me sympathizing with Zimmerman or otherwise, retract your fucking vile lie.

[countingbluecars]

3. He seems to crave the attention

he received during the trial. Those were probably the best days of his sorry life. I'm guessing things won't end well for him.

[randys1]

5. And I say the same about Michael Brown and the prick that shot him.

Brown mouthed off to the cop, probably, after the cop yelled "Get the fuck out of the street"

Cop RACES the car backwards to him and nearly runs into him, tries to open door, a struggle

Brown runs and the cop executes him.

period


The Trayvon deal was real obvious from the get go.

Zimmerman created the situation and guaranteed the ending.

[brush]

109. You summed it up right. If someone had just had a cell video going . . .

when that cop shot Brown there would have been a whole different outcome — maybe. You never know with that racist DA McCulloch.

The cop just executed Brown then used that old cop chestnut — "I was afraid for my life", yet at 6'4", weighing 240 lbs and armed he had the nerve to claim he was afraid of an unarmed man running away from him.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. There is a "barbarians at the gate" mentality around this county.

I hate it when they call it Frontierland justice, because that doesn't aptly describe the twisted leaps of logic that go on around here all the time. But I can say that these kind of Zimmerman style patrols, to protect their way of life against invaders, is a symptom. Unfortunately, the police have been known to lend a hand in their paranoia.

If you look closely, you are dealing with unsavory people who form packs and skirt the law. They have no choice but to take it up the next notch, because, living in a world where justice is dispensed equally, they would find themselves behind bars.

[raccoon]

77. Great post. nt

[Whiskeytide]

8. First - I am outraged at Trayvon's needless...

... death. Second, I think Zimmerman is a racist asshole.

But his behavior since the trial only proves both of those above statements ... It does not indict the judicial system nor the jury that found him not guilty.

The trial seemed to establish that Zimmerman stalked and confronted Trayvon. A fight resulted, and in the fight Trayvon apparently got the best of Zimmerman. As he was kicking Zimmerman's ass, Zimmerman "feared for his life", pulled out his gun and shot Trayvon. That post stalk, post confrontation - during fight moment - is what the case had to be about because that's when Zimmerman would have had to posses the intent to kill Trayvon, and when his state of mind - fear for his own life - would have to be determined.

The jury did not decide Zimmerman was not a racist asshole, nor that he did not bring about the situation that found him on the ass end of an ass whipping. All of that was uncontested - a given. All the jury determined was that, at the time he shot, Zimmerman was afraid Trayvon was going to kill him or do him serious physical harm. I think, given the screwed up circumstances, that was probably 100% true- and that precluded the guilty verdict.

It was a tragedy for Trayvon and his family. And there is no justification for Zimmerman's actions. But it just wasn't murder as that crime is defined under the law.

It sucks. I hope Zimmerman suffers immensely for the rest of his life. But the jury is the wrong scapegoat. IMO anyway.

[Hoyt]

11. The jury, which the one who talked was clearly a racist, cared little about Zman stalking Martin,

very possibly flashing his gun in intimidation, etc.

Further, Zman was training 3 days a week to beat people up, and carried a gun in case that wasn't working. One can't ignore those facts.

Sorry, there is not way to excuse the jury on this. One can say it was the judge's instructions, but juries ignore instructions all the time, they took the easy and/or racist way out.

[TexasBushwhacker]

13. I wonder if they could have gotten a conviction

for voluntary manslaughter. I agree with you that it wasn't murder as defined by Florida law, but Zimmerman was the instigator. He followed Trayvon, after being told not to by the police dispatcher. This who "I feared for my life" thing is where it gets sticky. I mean, for all we know, Zimmerman may have thrown the first punch.

So if you want to kill someone in Florida, can you just carry your firearm, go pick a fight with them and then when they fight back say "I fear for my life" and blow them away?

[Whiskeytide]

40. I don't disagree with what you post...

... but the scenario in your last paragraph would be premeditated murder if they could prove that's what you did. In Zimmerman's case they did not prove it to the jury's satisfaction. Maybe Hoyt is right in his post above - that the jury didn't WANT to make that connection. I don't know. But that's where the prosecutions case fell apart. I do wish it were a crime in FL to be a bigoted asshole. But they'd have to build a lot more prisons.

[TexasBushwhacker]

47. We did actually have a case in Texas

A man, armed with a gun and a video , went to tell his neighbors, who were having a birthday party and drinking, that they needed to quiet down. Of course, if noise was that big of an issue, he should have called the cops.

He claimed he "stood his ground" but he was the one to walk over, with a gun, to confront neighbor . The jury found him guilty, but the conviction was overturned in December of last year. So now there will hopefully be a second trial.

[Whiskeytide]

49. I think you can...

... make a pretty convincing argument from the fact that he taped it and the cheesy, self serving statements he made that he was looking to kill his neighbor and set it up as a SYG incident. I hope he's put away for life.

[Old Codger]

20. If I ever

Come face to face with Zimmerman I would immediately fear for my life....and react accordingly..

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

58. The jury was loaded with the wife of a guy who had business deals with GZ's attorney

you know, the lady who affectionately called him "Georgie" and was seeking a book deal.

The verdict was a given in Tubby George's favor, no matter what case the prosecution made.

[brush]

110. You've got to be kidding

Travon Martin was the one that stood his ground and fought for his life because of a stalking, cop wanna be racist, armed bully.

The jury, zimmerman and the DA and sorry ass prosecutors are all to blame that that killer is walking free.

And twisting your so called "logic" in pretzels to make it seem the zimmerman verdict is correct astounds me no end.

[Whiskeytide]

145. Why is that astounding?

The primary issue for the jury was whether or not Zimmerman had reason to believe he was in danger of being killed or seriously injured when he pulled the trigger. Every report I've seen seems to conclude that Trayvon was whipping his ass.

All of Zimmerman's conduct up to that point is - for the most part - irrelevant to the question that was before the jury. Zimmerman's defense was not SYG - it was self defense. So, again, the question for the jury was did he have reason to believe he was in the process of getting his ass handed to him on a platter when he fired the shot.

Now, if Trayvon had killed Zimmerman, then he could have pled a SYG defense, and all of Zimmerman's bullshit conduct would have been relevant to Trayvon's state of mind at the time. But that's not how it went down.

And please understand I'm not arguing with your general premis. I don't think justice was done in Trayvon's case any more than you do. I just don't think it was the jury's fault - or even the prosecution's fault. It was the way the laws were written. The law does not make someone guilty of murder because they are a bigoted asshole. Everyone wants to focus on that fact, but it just wasn't what the case was about. It sucks. But it simply wasn't the issue.

[hack89]

146. Trials are skewed in a big way towards the defendant for obvious reasons.

The problem is that many of the things we know happened or suspect happened never made it in front of the jury. The jury only got a small part of the story because there were no eye witnesses or physical evidence that the prosecutor could use to actually prove what we think happened.

[brush]

149. The prosecutor did a piss poor job for sure

zimmerman claimed Trayvon Martin bashed his head onto concrete 15 to 20 times — come on.

Any prosecutor, unless he was trying to throw the case, would have expert testimony and documented instances to demonstrated that anyone who had their head bashed on concrete that many times would be seriously concussed, knocked cold or dead, yet zimmerman was able to calmly walk into the police station after the incident hardly the worst for wear.

And one juror was so obviously biased in zimmerman's favor that she referred to him as "Georgie".

The DA was so "ready for her close up" and what this could do to her career that she overcharged so there was no way that a white man (I know zimmerman is only half white but he was portrayed as a white defending himself against a thug black guy) was going to be found guilty in this situation on her watch.

The racists won and I will never get how people on this board are defending the verdict.

[hack89]

150. Once you accept that courts do not dispense justice but rather interpret laws

you understand why such flawed verdicts come about. That is why defendants have such an advantage going in - the system is supposedly designed such that guilty people go free rather than innocent people go to jail. The reality is much more complex than that, especially when race is involved, but our justice system will by design let some guilty people walk free.

I disagree with your assessment of the DA. It was a high profile case where she felt obligated to go to trial due to public outrage as opposed to negotiating a plea deal on lesser charges (remember most cases are settled out of court). What was telling to me is that she did not take the case to the grand jury - I think she knew that they would not buy off on murder charges.

The DA should have charged him with manslaughter and fought for a plea deal.

[brush]

153. So you agree the DA overcharged?

Of course she did. She also should have made sure that that prosecutor present expert testimony and/or documented incident where someone's head hit concrete forcefully since zimmerman claimed Martin bashed his head on the concrete sidewalk 15-20 times.

Anyone with any sense knows you don't just get up and walk away from that. I assume the DA and the courtroom prosecutor have sense. Unless they were purposely throwing the case, all they had to do was google this incident or others like it to demonstrated what happens when a head hits concrete.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-knocked-unconscious-cracks-skull-racial-slur-article-1.1397834

IMO they threw the case. No white man was going to be convicted against a black man on their watch.

[Skittles]

124. it was TRAYVON who was defending his life - against an ARMED BULLY

WHY is that so hard to understand???

[GGJohn]

125. And the state failed to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt,

so this murdering POS got to walk because of the gross negligence of the prosecution team.

[onecaliberal]

128. The state proved it just fine. The Jury was always going to set the killer free.

[GGJohn]

130. Wrong.

The majority of legal scholars have said the state failed miserably and the jury, under our system of justice, made the correct decision.
Even Jimmy Carter said the jury made the right decision, hardly a racist RW'er.
And you have no clue on what the jury was always going to do, you're just speculating.

[onecaliberal]

135. It defies logic to say Zimmerman didn't purposely

Kill trayvon. He followed him, and pulled a gun on a child armed with skittles because he didn't think someone with black skin belonged there. I don't give two fucks what any legal scholars said. It's common fucking sense.

[GGJohn]

137. That doesn't negate the fact that the state failed to prove it's case

beyond a reasonable doubt, juries don't convict or acquit on common fucking sense, they convict or acquit on evidence, of which the state totally screwed the pooch on, even their witnesses were more beneficial to the defense than the prosecution.

If you want to assign blame for this POS murderer walking free, blame it on the state for fucking the case up.

[onecaliberal]

138. Reasonable doubt, surely you jest.

No one has an ounce of common sense anymore.

[GGJohn]

139. Again, juries don't convict on common sense, they convict on evidence,

of which the state did a piss poor job of presenting.
The state's closing argument basically asked the jury to ignore the lack of evidence and convict on emotion, that's not how our system works, and that's why he walked.

[brush]

151. Agreed that the state screwed the pooch but I say they did it purposely

zimmerman claimed Trayvon Martin bashed his head onto concrete 15 to 20 times — come on.

Any prosecutor, unless he was trying to throw the case, would have expert testimony and documented instances to demonstrate that anyone who had their head bashed on concrete that many times would be seriously concussed, knocked cold or dead, yet zimmerman was able to calmly walk into the police station after the incident hardly the worst for wear.

There was an incident in NYC where some drunk white guy yelled racial slurs at a black couple sitting in a sidewalk cafe. The black guy took offense and punched the drunk who then fell back and hit his head on the concrete sidewalk, ONCE, he was knocked cold. Here's a link to an incident:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-knocked-unconscious-cracks-skull-racial-slur-article-1.1397834

The prosecutor could have used this or other incidents proving that zimmerman lied.

Anyone with any sense knows this is what happens when heads hit concrete, yet the prosecutor allowed zimmerman's story that his head was bashed multiple times on concrete to stand without challenging it.

[GGJohn]

162. Good post.

I'm not sure that the prosecutor's purposely threw the case, but they sure didn't seem to have their heart in it to win.

[kcr]

156. Wow

There are still some of you around. Unbelievable.

[GGJohn]

163. WTF is that supposed to mean? eom.

[Taitertots]

159. Legal actions can't constitute the basis for self defense

Briefly following and approaching someone cant be the basis for self defense.

[Skittles]

172. bs

he looked for trouble and he found it

Fuck him - Zimmy's life is shit now - he would have been better off if justice had prevailed

Done here; I do not like wasting my time

[Taitertots]

174. Go call a lawyer if you don't believe me

I agree, fuck Zimmerman.

That doesn't change the fact that following briefly and approaching someone isn't illegal.

[JI7]

14. same case but races switched and it would easily be a guilty verdict

[Tipperary]

15. He is scum. He always has been.

I just wonder why you post about him so much. No matter what you said during the trial and how right you think you are, he is still free and walking the streets. No one cares about him. I sure do not care about him and I cannot help but wonder why you talk about him all the time.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

83. Only sane man syndrome.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnlySaneMan


To it's credit, there were a lot of sane people here at DU, but there were more than a handful of those cavalierly dismissing our points, "Oh, Trayvon was a testosterone filled kid" or "He wanted to practice his MMA skills" and the like.

But to answer the deeper question, we are in there General Discussion forum, and therefore we are free to generally discuss the topics of our interests within the rules of the forum.

[Nitram]

17. Many of us repeatedly pointed out the inconsistencies

and obvious lies.

[JDPriestly]

19. He was out hunting. That's my belief.

[Skittles]

29. one of them was where he was supposed to be, minding his own business

the other one had a record and was armed and looking for trouble

yet Zimmerman STILL managed to "fool" people

F*** ALL RACIST GUN HUMPERS

[Mariana]

100. Yes, I think he was.

Most of his 911 call sounded like he was following a script, laying out his "justification" for having to shoot "in self defense". I think he was planning to shoot Trayvon right there, but Trayvon ran.

[JDPriestly]

104. I agree. He sounded like he was on the witness stand already. Absolutely.

That's what alerted me to the problem.

[Starry Messenger]

21. He stalked and hunted a human, and now he's gloating over the trophies.

I will never forgive anyone who defended that scumbag, even a little.

[SummerSnow]

23. Me either.

[KeepItReal]

26. Zimmerman defenders not even neutral. Just *knew* GZ was defending himself.

Refused to even accept that Trayvonn had a RIGHT to defend himself from a STRANGER following him back to his FAMILY.

[Starry Messenger]

46. They couldn't even accept that Trayvon might even have his own perceptions of the interaction.

No, he was supposed to know about and scrape to the self-appointed neighborhood snoop, with a FUCKING GUN on him, and judge himself pre-guilty of walking back to his house.

And I still think GZ slammed his own head in his fucking car door and inflicted those scratches on himself. I will never believe a WORD from this fucker.

[Taitertots]

160. He didn't. Following and approaching Martin was legal

[KeepItReal]

165. Some bigger unknown man follows you home and accosts you

I'm sure that's cool, also?

[Taitertots]

166. It's not illegal.

do you think it is?

[KeepItReal]

168. You would call the cops and let them sort it out. Trayvonn never got a chance.

eom

[Taitertots]

169. OK, I'll take your silence to mean that you know it's legal

No crime, no self defense.

"Call the cops"? Based on your claims I have the RIGHT to attack them.
"Refused to even accept that Trayvonn had a RIGHT to defend himself from a STRANGER following him back to his FAMILY."
So should I start beating people who briefly follow and approach me?

[KeepItReal]

170. It's called assault

"The act of creating apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact with a person.

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm"

Zimmerman, for the umpteenth time, followed and confronted that young man on his way back to his family. He was bigger and had a f*cking weapon.

Those are facts.

[Taitertots]

171. You better call a lawyer. Because you don't know what you're talking about

Briefly following and approaching someone is legal. It's not assault.

All this came up during the Zimmerman trial. The judge had to specifically instruct the jury that following and approaching is legal.

[KeepItReal]

173. From your DU posts, you think Trayvonn Martin attacked Zimmerman

Just say that up front.

You are entitled to your beliefs.

I'll leave you to them.

[Taitertots]

175. Nope. but nice attempt to deflect from your obviously false statements

Keep pushing your lies, maybe someday people will start believing them.

[darkangel218]

51. Neither will i

+1

[SummerSnow]

22. And now that those jurors let him walk ....

They should never be allowed to serve on juries ever cause they are stupid beyond repair.

[GGJohn]

28. The jury let him walk because the prosecution so screwed up the case that

they had no choice BY LAW but to find him not guilty.
If you want to assign blame, then blame the prosecution, not the jury.
Hell, half of the prosecution's witnesses were beneficial to the defense.

[Skittles]

31. you had to believe his RIDICULOUS story

there was NOTHING credible about Zimmerman - NOTHING

[GGJohn]

33. That's not the point,

the prosecution failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was 2nd Degree Murder, they put on weak witnesses, most of whom were beneficial to the defense, so the jury, going by the law, had no choice but to acquit him.
Blame the state for allowing that POS to get away murder, not the jury.

[Skittles]

39. Zimmerman stalked Trayvon FOR NO REASON

then EXECUTED Trayvon for daring to defend himself. CLASSIC FUCKING GUN HUMPING PIECE OF SHIT COWARD. And fuck this - I am sick of seeing you defending gun humping cowards - DONE WITH YOU

[GGJohn]

42. You seem to have an anger management problem.

Last edited Mon Sep 28, 2015, 08:36 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not defending Zimmerman, that's a flat out fucking vile lie, I'm defending the verdict by the jury due to the gross negligence of the prosecutors.
They put on a very weak case, and because of that, the jury, doing there LEGAL duty, had no choice, by law, but to find him not guilty.
Again, if you want to assign blame, blame the state for doing such a piss poor job of prosecuting that lying sack of shit for murder.

[Punkingal]

101. They proved it to me...

I watched the whole trial. He was told to stay in his truck and did not do so. That was all the proof I needed that he stalked Trayvon and then murdered him.

[GGJohn]

117. Wrong, the dispatcher did not tell him to stay in his vehicle,

she said we don't need you to do that, dispatchers have no authority to order someone to stay in their vehicle.
I watched the whole trial from beginning to end, and it was pretty clear to me, and most legal scholars, that the state failed to prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt, and in our legal system, if reasonable doubt exists, then the defendant must be found not guilty, which is what the jury did.

That doesn't mean that, IMHO, Zimmerman is not guilty, as far as I'm concerned, he's guilty as hell, but in the eyes of the law, which is all that counts, he's not guilty.

[brush]

152. The jury bears some responsibility

They are adults with sense. One juror, the Latina, wanted to convict because she saw through the zimmerman lies but she wasn't strong enough to stand her ground against the white racists on jury and eventually voted to find the killer not guilty.

So please, stop with "the jury had no choice" crap. It's Flori-duh where whites don't get convicted in cases against blacks, even if they kill them.

[Nye Bevan]

37. First of all, he did not tell a "story" as he did not testify.

Second, the jury does not have to believe a "story" in order to acquit. The onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which they were not able to do, meaning that the jury acted correctly to acquit.

Having said that, Zimmerman is a sociopathic scum and I am sure that just like OJ Simpson things will eventually end very badly for him.

[hack89]

48. You do know that Zim didn't tell his story at trial

He didn't have to. The prosecution witnesses did it for him.

[SummerSnow]

50. Then the prosecutors are a bunch of idiots.Botched it on purpose hu.

[Nye Bevan]

54. They put forward the best witnesses they could find and gave it their best shot.

However, it quickly became evident that their legal case was so weak that they never should havd gone to trial. The best outcome would have been a plea-bargain to some lesser charge which would at least have resulted in some jail time.

[GGJohn]

55. I doubt they botched it on purpose, they caved to public pressure

even though they knew for a fact that their case was weak, why do you think Angela Cory refused to take the case to the Grand Jury?
Because she knew they would No Bill it, instead, she figured that she could bamboozle the jury into a guilty verdict with the emotion card.
Remember the closing argument by the prosecutor? He basically said to ignore the lack of evidence and convict on emotions, that's not how our jury system works.
The state so screwed the pooch on this that the jury had no choice but to acquit according to the law and let that POS walk.

[Hoyt]

61. When you read through all your obsfucation, you are saying Zman wasn't guilty. If you need a link

to your support of Zman, there it is.

[GGJohn]

62. You just don't know when to quit do you?

I never said Zimmerman wasn't guilty, try reading my posts before opening your mouth and proving that you know nothing.

So, how about that link? Got it?

[mountain grammy]

25. He was on patrol, looking for trouble,

what fun is that big old gun unless you get to shoot someone. I think that can be said of most of the gun nuts and gun hoarders in America. And if you get to shoot a black person, all the better. America has a really bad sickness when it comes to guns.

[Skittles]

27. THANK YOU

I believe only racist gun humpers could have believed his RIDICULOUS story

SHAME ON THEM

[DonCoquixote]

30. the sad truth is

It would not matter one whit if GZ died a pariah and a pauper, his job was done, to enable of a bunch of would be cowboys and storm-troopers to shoot black kids because they are scared. Since that verdict, we have had cops going trigger happy, and Dylan Roof assassinating a Democratic politician (remember, he did call for the reverend, who was also a state senator). As far as those who profit from the fear that all too many have of Black kids, mission accomplished.

Although do NOT be surprised if later, after "finding Jesus" he does VERY well. If Florida can turn down Jeb's handpicked successor for the Governorship to elect someone responsible for several hundred million dollar sin Medicare, it is capable of ANYTHING.

[Skittles]

32. we have DUers who still think what Zimmerman did was A-OK

sick gun fucks

[GGJohn]

35. Really?

Can you post a link?

[Nye Bevan]

41. The only Zimmerman defenders were low-post count trolls,

who have been subsequently banned.

Despite the assertion of the poster you are responding to, nobody can give a link to a post by a currently active DUer that claims that what Zimmerman did was "A-OK" because no such post exists.

[GGJohn]

43. Can't the archives reveal such a post? eom.

[rufus dog]

59. Serious question

Read all of your posts on this thread then answer honestly.

Not an attack, but why are you defending the verdict so aggressively?

Wouldn't the normal thing to do is just walk the fuck away? Both Zimmerman with Martin and you in this thread. You can't answer for Zimmerman, but why are you so emotionally invested in defending the jury, prosecutors, etc.

Best part of my question, you can't ask for a fucking link.

[GGJohn]

60. Defending the prosecutors?

I've been slamming the prosecutors for putting on such a weak case that the jury had no choice, by law, but to acquit this POS because the state didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt the charges against him.

Apparently you didn't read my posts, and I can ask for a fucking link despite what you fucking say.

[rufus dog]

66. Lighten up Francis, or is it George

You state the case was weak, your fucking statement, you state they needed to play the emotion card to bamboozle the jury, your fucking words. Someone in this thread seems to have an emotional attachment to George being let go on flimsy reasoning.

"Even though they knew for a fact that their case was weak, why do you think Angela Cory refused to take the case to the Grand Jury?
Because she knew they would No Bill it, instead, she figured that she could bamboozle the jury into a guilty verdict with the emotion card.
Remember the closing argument by the prosecutor? He basically said to ignore the lack of evidence and convict on emotions, that's not how our jury system works.
The state so screwed the pooch on this that the jury had no choice but to acquit according to the law and let that POS walk".

As for a fucking link, have at it.
https://m.

[GGJohn]

67. Just about every legal scholar said it was a weak case, I'm just repeating what they said.

And are those members of DU?
Because the allegation was that there were members of DU defending Zimmerman, so, are they members here?

[rufus dog]

73. Let's see if the third try works

Why so agressively focused on supporting the outcome?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

90. Nye, we've been through this before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027118455#post83

There are several, active, long time DUers who picked up for Zimmerman all throughout his trial and even afterwards.

I even got excoriated by one of them for pointing out that inconvenient truth.

[Humanist_Activist]

74. I'll link to a thread...

There's one long term poster on their that is giving Zimmerman the benefit of a doubt.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002587612

Its a long thread and they are pretty far down into it.

[Logical]

142. It is odd how much interest you have taken in this post. Hmmmm. Nt

[GGJohn]

143. So it's odd when you take a great interest in a post?

Like this one? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
So, tell me, why is this odd?

[zappaman]

38. I loathe this fucker.

I hope karma is a real thing.

[tblue]

44. The real GZ is there to see on Twitter

He's even nastier than I ever imagined.

[niyad]

57. is this because of his posting a picture of trayvon's body?

[ohnoyoudidnt]

71. That is the latest event that made the news, of all his subsequent behavior after the killing

that showed the world what kind of person he really is.

[Major Hogwash]

63. Yeah, I remember those threads.

The amount of excrement the Zimmerman defenders posted here about it was unbelievable.

[GGJohn]

64. Then I'm sure you'll have no problem posting a link? eom.

[Major Hogwash]

68. Post a link to what?

[GGJohn]

69. That members of DU were defending Zimmerman. eom.

[Major Hogwash]

72. Naw, I don't want to embarrass you.

[GGJohn]

79. Embarrass me?

Why would it embarrass me?

[Humanist_Activist]

75. Here you go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023244247

Some of these loathsome characters are still among us on DU.

[GGJohn]

80. Finally.

Thank you.

[Anansi1171]

103. Search is YOUR friend.

Need others to do the work and prove it to you?

Care about the truth and do your own work!!

[GGJohn]

115. Not the way it works,

if you make a claim, it's up to you to provide the proof with a link, not the other way around.

[Rex]

65. The jury got it wrong.

He never had to defend himself, he could have drove off in his car. He never had any right to stalk and kill another person. Horrible verdict. Really a sad day for justice.

Zimmerman is scum and hopefully he won't murder someone else. I think he is a loose cannon.

[Vinca]

78. This man got away with murder, pure and simple.

Zimmerman isn't bright enough to fabricate a good ambush story.

[hack89]

81. The fact that he never had to tell his story at the trial is the real issue here

he never had to present his side of the story because of how bad the prosecution case was. A decent prosecutor would have found a way to get his story before the jury.

[Nye Bevan]

87. No matter how good a prosecutor is, he has that pesky 5th Amendment to contend with.

And while I can see the desire to force someone like Zimmerman to testify, try to think about how horribly misused such a power would be if it was available, especially when applied to poorer, not so articulate defendants with substandard lawyers.

[trumad]

82. We have approximately two in this thread who use the guise of a faulty prosecution---

to cover the fact that they support Zimmerman.

Every single thread slamming Zimmerman---these two Zimmerman defenders hop in and spout the faulty prosecution meme.

Again---it's the exact same two in every thread.

They think they are clever---not even close.---oh and BTW: Big gun lovers as well.

[GGJohn]

84. That's an outright lie.

Nobody is defending him.

[Nye Bevan]

85. The OJ Simpson prosecution was horribly botched

to the extent that I can see why a juror might have had cause for reasonable doubt and voted to acquit.

Trumad's response: "OMG you support OJ Simpson!"

[trumad]

89. LOL

Sorry---couldn't help to giggle.

[GGJohn]

92. You often talk to yourself? eom.

[trumad]

97. I do..

I said to myself..I betcha I know who will reply to my post....I wasn't disappointed.

[GGJohn]

118. Maybe you weren't disappointed,

but you are disappointing with your baseless accusations.

[trumad]

119. Again...why are you chiming in on this.

I didn't mention you. It's as if you have a guilty conscience or something.

[GGJohn]

121. Again, why are you being so obtuse?

It's sooooo obvious who you were talking about with your baseless lies about people here defending Zimmerman.
Stop trying to be cute and just come out and say it.

[trumad]

126. Ha

[GGJohn]

127. Yep,

about what I expected.

[Nye Bevan]

93. How about this guy who thinks that the jury "made the right decision"

and that Americans should "respect its verdict"?

Former president Jimmy Carter said the jury in the George Zimmerman trial "made the right decision" and agrees with President Obama that Americans should respect its judgment.

......

"It's not a moral question," he continued, "it was a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/17/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-jimmy-carter/2524809/

[Tommy_Carcetti]

95. From all indications, the jury verdict was untainted and free from any sort of tampering.

Therefore, in the eyes of the law, it was a legitimate verdict.

That does not mean, however, that it should be free from criticism.

Juries have been, and will continue to be, wrong from time to time.

I believe this to be one such circumstance.

[Hoyt]

98. Exactly. They call Zman a "POS," then turn around and support the verdict and

an armed Zman stalking/intimidating an unarmed kid.

At the time, I was still allowed in the Gungeon. Just a few months before Zman murdered Martin -- and got the gungeoneers all excited about another armed self-defense case, what kind of gun he carried, etc. -- there was a thread about what to say if you pull a Zman and shoot someone in a questionable situation. They like Zman concluded that you don't say much, just keep repeating you were in fear of your life.

Some changed their blatant supportive tune within a few weeks when they realized that Zman's actions weren't going to look good and might threaten their future access to more gunz. They are transparent.

[trumad]

99. Again---every single Zman thread that has been posted in the last several months...

has the same old characters hopping in under the guise of defending the verdict.

[Rex]

105. Same people were giving cover to Wilson after he fled town like a murdering scumbag.

They all have a pattern that is easy to see.

[Hoyt]

106. Yep. I get that shootings are justified sometimes, and as more info comes out it becomes clear.

But some folks just automatically assume the one with a gun is in the right, and it's almost impossible for them to accept there was as less lethal way to handle the situation, and maybe the gun elevated the situation. They might post a bunch of ambiguous words, but you know they lean toward the gun fancier.

[Nye Bevan]

107. Do you count Jimmy Carter as a "Zimmerman supporter"?

Former president Jimmy Carter said the jury in the George Zimmerman trial "made the right decision" and agrees with President Obama that Americans should respect its judgment.

......

"It's not a moral question," he continued, "it was a legal question and the American law requires that the jury listens to the evidence presented."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/17/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-jimmy-carter/2524809/

[Hoyt]

108. I admire President Carter today, but maybe he had a flashback to his days in South Georgia

when he was not so sensitive to racial issues.

Or maybe he was just trying to keep people calm.

[GGJohn]

120. LOL.

You just can't resist yourself can you.

[Captain Stern]

94. There were several gross inconsistencies to Zimmerman's story.

It's unfortunate that the prosecution didn't do a very good job pointing them out.

I think it's more likely, than not, that Zimmerman tried to physically detain Martin before the police got there, and that Martin fought back in self defense. However, if I were on the jury, I would have had to vote to acquit.

[Skittles]

113. so

you can stalk someone for no reason, produce a weapon / physically try to detain them, then execute them when they fight back, in fear of their life

try to imagine that scenario if it wasn't a black teenager

[Captain Stern]

122. That's not what I said at all.

Here's what I actually did say:

"I think it's more likely, than not, that Zimmerman tried to physically detain Martin before the police got there, and that Martin fought back in self defense".

I think there were several things about Zimmerman's story that didn't make sense. That's why I don't think that things happened the way he claimed (on the video presented to the jury by the Prosecutor) they happened. However, the folks on the jury are supposed to only consider the evidence that is presented to them. In my (amateur) opinion, the prosecutors didn't do a good job of pointing those things out to the jury. If I was on that jury, and only heard what they did, I would have voted to acquit. "More likely than not" isn't anywhere close to "Beyond a reasonable doubt".

By it's nature, our justice system isn't perfect, because it's controlled by people. People make mistakes. In an ideal world, only the guilty would be arrested, and they would all be convicted, and no innocent person would ever be arrested for a crime they didn't commit. I think that the way our justice system is set up (when it's not corrupted) does a decent job of recognizing our imperfections. It's set up to err on the side of not sending innocent people to prison, or worse. If a mistake must be made, it's better to let a guilty person go free, than imprison an innocent person.

If a video of the entire incident was revealed today, I think it would show that Zimmerman was guilty of manslaughter or 2cnd degree murder. But that video hasn't emerged, and I think the jury voted the way they should have.

[Skittles]

123. Zimmerman had a history of being a bully and an aggressor

he targeted an unarmed boy, stalked and executed him.....the fucker should have been arrested immediately....his story was NEVER credible and you do not need a video to understand that

the oddest part is, Zimmerman's life would be SO much better if justice HAD prevailed....now he is a bad joke: that sick, gun humping racist piece of shit got away with murder, and now he's bragging about it

[Captain Stern]

131. Personally, I think our world would be better without Zimmerman sharing it with us.

My point isn't that Zimmerman is a good person, or that he was in the right when he killed Martin. My point is that the jury in the case made the 'right' call. Not 'right', in that they figured out exactly what happened (it wasn't their duty to figure out exactly what happened), but 'right' in that they did their duties correctly. The prosecution didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed a crime. They just didn't. Maybe they were incompetent, or maybe it was intentional, or maybe they just didn't have enough evidence to prove their case. Maybe Zimmerman was just lucky that nobody was around to record a video of what happened.

Unfortunately, sometimes people get away with doing bad things. That's the price we pay for trying to keep people out of prison that didn't do bad things. (emphasis on 'try').

[GGJohn]

132. Very well said. eom.

[Skittles]

133. I absolutely disagree

the jury had to buy his ridiculous story and I found him not credible in ANY way

[GGJohn]

134. The jury never heard his story from his lips,

he didn't testify, the defense recognized that the state put on such a weak case, they felt no need to put him on the stand.
Whether or not YOU found him not credible has NO bearing on the jury, they listened to the evidence and decided that the state failed to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Captain Stern]

136. No, the jury didn't have to buy his story. They had to find that it was practically impossible.

It was the prosecution's job to show the jury that Zimmerman's story was practically impossible. They didn't do that. In fact, it was actually the prosecution that presented Zimmerman's story to the jury in the first place. Zimmerman never even had to testify. Zimmerman never had to speak a word in his defense at the trial because the prosecutor presented a video of him getting to tell his story....where there was no cross examination whatsoever. Zimmerman was essentially allowed to tell his side, (at least a day or two later. not sure when the video was made), exactly the way he wanted to tell it, and not get questioned about it. I think that would have made sense if the prosecutor was about to rip his story to shreds....but they didn't do that. That's what the jury saw.

[GreatGazoo]

102. The one investigator, Serino, had Zimmerman dead to rights in questioning

Serino: OK, so you basically jumped out of the car to see where he was going?

Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

Serino: OK. That’s not fear. You know what I mean?

Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

Serino: That’s one of the problems I have with the whole thing, or I’m gonna have. I mean, I don’t have any problems at all, it’s just that… it’s gonna be a problem

(plays tape 2:14 to 2:17)

Singleton: It sounds like you’re running right there.

Zimmerman: I wasn’t running.

Singleton: Oh (unintelligible)

(plays tape 2:16 to 2:17)

Serino: What is that you’re whispering? Fucking what?

Zimmerman: Punks.

Serino: "Fucking punks?" He wasn’t a fucking punk. (clears throat)

http://thenearlyfamousbulletinboard.yuku.com/topic/16158/Transcript-of-Police-Interrogation-of-George-Zimmerman#.VgrJfZcQuUk

[Blue_Tires]

114. I remember spending thousands of posts explaining why

Zimmerman's following of Trayvon and the infamous 911 call were racial profiling... Fun times...

[yardwork]

116. I remember.

[Major Nikon]

129. It's important to remember that among certain circles, Z was a hero

Still is to some, but most aren't too vocal about it these days.

[DonCoquixote]

141. He will not be called to account

because people deny

Now, let's take an example here, right from DU. Now, I have fought with Clinton fans, BUT, the fact Bravenak was sent threats by US mail is despicable, and oh yes, it is a CRIME. Yet, I have seen people bend over backwards to try and accuse her of doing thsi to herself, or some Clinton operative, or all sorts of bull-oney.

Now, to show equal love, there was a thread where a MIRT member got caught BRAGGING about gaming the Jury system on another site. True enough, people denied denied denied even as the screens were printed.

The point being is that people will always trade justice for power, and if they do nto realize that THEY can be at the other end of the axe, well, that will never happen to them, right? If anyone thinks the Police and the powers that play Police like Pawns are not working RIGHT NOW towards the day when ANYONE can get shot for any reason, they are fools.

To quote a great and honest artist: "when you listen to fools, the mob rules" and the media is making damned sure fools get the mike.

[Nye Bevan]

144. Sending someone a letter saying you plan to alert on their DU posts is despicable

but it is not a crime.

[DonCoquixote]

147. threatening over mail is

and keep in mind, Bravenak has no way of knowing if this threat is something simple, or something worse, nor should she have to figure that out. The Hospitals, police stations, and yes morgues are full of people who go "I would never think that so and so was actually SERIOUS."

Dylan Roof must have looked like a silly joke at worst to a bunch of Church goes in Charleston. Sadly, all it takes is an easily obtainable weapon to change someone from "bad joke" to tragedy.

[Nye Bevan]

148. I could send any DUer a letter in the mail to say that I planned to alert on every single post

of theirs on DU, and that I did not like their opinions and that I hoped they would be banned from DU. And I would not be committing a crime. It would be a horrible thing to do, but would not break any law. Legally, a "threat" is a threat of violence, not a threat to alert on posts on an internet forum.

[DonCoquixote]

164. and again

Bravenak you or I can prove it will never get to anything worse because?

[Nye Bevan]

167. Nobody can prove that. But sending that letter is still not a crime (nt)

[Taitertots]

157. All you need to know to understand the verdict is....

-jury instructions that briefly following someone and approaching them is legal and it can't be a justification for self defense.

-witness who indicated that he saw what he appeared to be Trayvon Martin straddling and repeatedly hitting Zimmerman.

-4 minutes of silence during closing argument. Representing 4 minutes that are unaccounted for in the official narrative.

-star witness fell apart on the stand

[kcr]

161. Yes, indeed. The jury had to do a whole lot of cherrypicking

But it falls apart pretty quickly once all the facts are looked at. It was a travesty. You illustrated that quite nicely.