Fuck the Pope.

[Drunken Irishman]

I say that as someone who was raised Catholic. Behind all his pretty talk he's just as big of a bigot as the last one. He might talk more impressively about the poor, greed and global warming but his cloth is cut from the same assholes who are actively trying to deny the rights of millions.

The Pope is everything wrong with Christianity. The Pope is everything wrong with the Catholic Church.

I'm ashamed, and embarrassed, that I thought he was different or better. Forgive me for drinking the Pope-aid. He's just another piece of shit.

[Octafish]

1. Building bridges to the nation's Catholic community.

Nice.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. Meh

The bridges have been constantly wrecked by a Catholic Church that has used its pulpit to attack gays for as long as I can remember.

If there's no bridge it's because of douchebags like Pope Francis.

[zeemike]

81. And it is always important to punish them if they try to change.

After all where would we be without our evil boogie men?...nope keep them in their place so the anger is always present. Anger and fear makes us feel justified and Superior.

Attitudes like that is what makes war a permanent fixture in our life. And it makes resolution of problems imposable.

[Arugula Latte]

130. So meeting with Kim Davis is change? What, in making things even more medieval at the RCC?

[zeemike]

139. And what was said at that meeting?

Does your CT mind tell you they were plotting something?
Obama had a beer with a bad guy...did that bother you at all?

Jesus had diner with publicans and sinners...does that mean Jesus was one? Or could it be that he was reaching out trying to build bridges not destroy them. (I await the inevitable Jesus was a myth and the bible is a work of fiction so...)

This is what pisses me of the most, the meme that no matter what he does it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH...a sure way to keep the hate and division going. We are all in our respective camps now and by god we are supposed to stay there where we belong.

Well I say fuck that shit...it has brought nothing but more conflict and makes peace between people imposible and has solved nothing.

[Arugula Latte]

142. The pope told her to stay strong and continue her anti-gay quest.

Are you going to make apologies for him for that?

It's tricky to make "peace" between people when one side is actively working to take away the rights of more than half the population. We're always shushed and told to be nice little oppressed victims lest we dare say something that the medieval men in big hats don't like. Give me a fucking break.

[zeemike]

146. Link to that please.

Or is that just what you imagine was said? Which would make you a CTer.

Peace is not tricky if you act in good faith and name calling and derision is not the way to go...but I suspect that kind of advice will fall on deaf ears...becaise some people just love the feeling of anger...perhaps it is some kind of stimulus or something.

[Arugula Latte]

165. Wow, the denial and apologism is thick around here. Here you go:

On Tuesday night, her lawyer, Mathew D. Staver, said that Ms. Davis and her husband, Joe, were sneaked into the Vatican Embassy by car on Thursday afternoon. Francis gave her rosaries and told her to “stay strong,” the lawyer said. The couple met for about 15 minutes with the pope, who was accompanied by security guards, aides and photographers.

“I put my hand out and he reached and he grabbed it, and I hugged him and he hugged me,” Ms. Davis said Wednesday in an interview with ABC News. ‘Thank you for your courage.’”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?_r=0

[zeemike]

174. Well her lawyer said it so it must be true.

And that is all the reason one needs to hate the pope...he met with her.
All I am denying is the righteousness of your hate and the wisdom of the attack on someone who at least partially is on our side.

Not good enough pope, not good enough...only complete submission will be acceptable and even then it will probably be not good enough.
Yes that is the way to peace alright.

[ladjf]

226. It appears that he was encouraging an American citizen to

break our laws and impose her beliefs upon numerous citizens.

[Arugula Latte]

228. Yes it does. So typical of religious zealots.

Fuck these moronic "faiths."

[HERVEPA]

77. Pope building bridges to intolearance and homophobia

See Kim Davis visit

[Matariki]

93. Was that real? Her lawyer is a lying POS, so I am very suspicious he had a 'secret' meeting with her

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pope-francis-visits-america/kim-davis-attorney-claims-she-had-secret-meeting-pope-d-n435916

[HERVEPA]

96. It is real. confirmed by numerous reliable sources. Does this surprise you?

One bigot meeting another.

[Matariki]

98. "Surprise" me? No. Why should it?

I don't care. I like that the head of the Catholic church is addressing climate change and inequal wealth distribution, but I didn't expect him to do a 180 on Catholicism's weird ideas about sex.

[Matariki]

100. BTW - can you link to those reliable sources?

Not a challenge, just would like to see them. I don't trust her lawyer who has proven himself a huge liar.

[Bubzer]

113. +1

[beam me up scottie]

135. Is the Vatican a good enough source?

Kim Davis, Kentucky County Clerk, Met Pope Francis [View all]

Source: New York Times

Pope Francis met privately in Washington last week with Kim Davis, the county clerk in Kentucky who defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, a Vatican spokesman confirmed on Wednesday.

Ms. Davis, the clerk in Rowan County, has been at the center of a nationwide controversy over whether government employees and private businesses have a legal right to refuse to serve same-sex couples. She spent five days in jail for disobeying a federal court order to issue the licenses.

On Tuesday night, her lawyer, Mathew D. Staver, said in a telephone interview that Ms. Davis and her husband, Joe, were sneaked into the Vatican Embassy by car on Thursday afternoon. Francis gave her rosaries and told her to “stay strong,” the lawyer said. The couple met for about 15 minutes with the pope, who was accompanied by security guards, aides and photographers. Mr. Staver said he expected to receive photographs of the meeting from the Vatican soon.

On Wednesday, the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, confirmed that the meeting took place, but he declined to elaborate. “I do not deny that the meeting took place, but I have no other comments to add,” he said.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?smid=tw-share

[Matariki]

137. Yeah, thanks. That's what I was looking for.

[Matariki]

251. So it did turn out that Kim Davis is a big farking liar. Surprised?

http://reverbpress.com/discovery/spiritual/kim-davis-caught-lie-sex-couple-actually-got-secret-meeting/

[Trajan]

154. Those were the guys with the Inquisition, right?

Auto da fe, anyone? ...

I was born to the bosom of the Catholic church, and subjected to Catholic indoctrination for my first ten years ...

Then I tossed those aholes over the gunwales and never looked back ...

Pope Francis had my respect until he met with Davis, and that's all I needed to know ... Fuck him ...

[NightWatcher]

2. Screw all religion

It's merely a method of controlling the flocks of ignorant by manipulating hopes for grandeur and threats of damnation.

[RKP5637]

8. Yep, that's the modus operandi of religion and plus $$$$$'s for Religion, Inc. n/t

[Fearless]

64. Bingo

[Tommy2Tone]

89. This

nt

[AlbertCat]

114. X 3!

Fear and guilt..... that you actually pay for with money.

[LanternWaste]

120. And national borders... and governments. Which do precisely the same thing.

And national borders... and governments. And economics. Which are all "merely a method of controlling the flocks of ignorant by manipulating hopes for grandeur and threats of damnation."

But no doubt, we'll rationalize one imaginary thing that we predicate so many of our decisions on as more real than another imaginary thing.

Seems to be the human condition to indict others for placing faith in the imaginary while we do the very same thing.

But we all of us rationalize it as something else.

[Arugula Latte]

132. Agree. I'm amazed modern people still fall for Big Mythology's grifting scam.

[Facility Inspector]

4. Something tells me the Pope is NOT your biggest problem

just saying.

[packman]

18. Agreed - some people are just always looking at the dark side

of everything, everyone.

[Facility Inspector]

30. I just couldn't imagine anyone other than a maladjusted teenager

with an Anarchy shirt or Sineaid O'Connor saying something so stupid.

[dbackjon]

103. Or someone that values equality for all Humans

So Fuck the Pope is a better message than your condescension.

[AlbertCat]

117. saying something so stupid....

.... and true.

The Wonder Pope trots out some lame sophomoric altruistic mush that most intelligent people have figured out long ago and everyone for some reason just goes all gooey! Talk about stupid!

Fortunately, he has no authority here.

[HERVEPA]

150. Major lack of imagination.

[Arugula Latte]

249. Sinead O'Connor was speaking out for the child rape victims of the RCC.

She was RIGHT.

It was and is a massive cover-up of centuries of sexual abuse.

Are you going to defend the church on that? Are you going to say that speaking out against institutionalized child rape is "stupid"?

Wow, I just shake my head sometimes at the comments on a so-called "progressive" discussion board.

[SidDithers]

19. The data you're using to come up with that conclusion is suspect...nt

Sid

[Maraya1969]

26. Suspect as is NONE or something I haven't seen?

[whathehell]

155. LOL

[NaturalHigh]

5. Stay classy.

[Drunken Irishman]

6. No need to be classy when it comes to bigots.

[whathehell]

158. I guess Protestant and Jewish leaders are "bigots", too, then

since they don't sanction gay marriage anymore then the pope does.

[progressoid]

202. Yes, if they oppose marriage equality, they are.

[whathehell]

211. That's the party line, is it?

I'll try to remember.

[progressoid]

212. I don't speak for the party.

There are obviously a lot of Democrats and supposed liberal religious leaders who think it's fine to oppose marriage equality and women's rights.
I happen to think they are bigots. And assholes.

[whathehell]

214. You don't?

Could have fooled me, lol.

What you, and some others don't seem to get is that religious leaders like the pope and others are following

something called "doctrine". It doesn't necessarily reflect their personal feelings or "bigotry".

That being said, some seem to view everything in simplistic, black and white terms -- I think they're assholes.

Have a good one.






.

[progressoid]

224. Too bad doctrine can never be changed.

Oh, wait. It can!

[whathehell]

233. Yes it can

just not in a "moment", if you will.

[progressoid]

234. Not in a moment, or even a millennia.

What the heck, the gays with their icky sex and women with their scary ovaries can wait another century or two while the RCC drags itself out of the dark ages.

[whathehell]

237. Sorry you feel that way..

[HERVEPA]

78. Tell that to the jerk pope who met with Kim Davis

[Arugula Latte]

166. Stay classy -- Yes, we wouldn't want to upset the anti-gay and anti-women leaders,

now would we?

back atcha

[Codeine]

7. Forget it Jake, it's PapalUndergroundTown. nt

[daleanime]

10. Of course he's a bigot....

I'll still work with him when he's right, and oppose him when he wrong....


Should I do anything other then that?

[tishaLA]

52. Perfect answer

[whathehell]

213. Should you do anything other than that?

Refrain from name calling, maybe?

[Kelvin Mace]

11. You can't advocate for accepting the reality of climate science

while ignoring the realities of unchecked population growth.

[PeaceNikki]

16. Or advocate for helping poverty while ignoring that forced birth propagates it

[cheapdate]

157. Or fight for structural changes in political and economic systems

that support social justice while dumping on otherwise strong allies over differences of opinion regarding sexual morality.

[PeaceNikki]

159. "differences of opinion"? No, what they do is straight up oppression.

And structural changes in political and economic systems require equality as well as reproductive freedom. Anything which discludes those is a farce.

[trotsky]

162. People are literally DYING in Africa...

because of the RCC's propaganda campaign to convince people that condoms don't work to prevent AIDS. He could stop that in an instant if he wanted to. No, really, he could.

This isn't just a "difference of opinion regarding sexual morality" here. It's literally a life-and-death issue.

[cheapdate]

178. People are also dying as a direct result of immoral and unethical capitalism

which steals from the many to enrich the few. That too is literally a life and death issue. As is the climate disruption caused by anthropogenic global warming.

None of these things are going to stop "in an instant".

Has Pope Francis spoken out against the use of condoms as a tool to stop the spread of AIDs in Africa?

[trotsky]

206. The pope can't control that.

He *CAN* control the teachings about condoms.

Why doesn't he?

[cheapdate]

207. How is it that he supposedly can't control

how we talk about, think about, and act on climate change and reforming capitalist economic systems but he can change how we act on the other issues?

How are they different? It seems to me they aren't.

[trotsky]

219. Are you kidding?

One is the CHURCH HE LEADS AND RUNS.

One is the global economic system.

They're a little different. One he controls, one he doesn't.

With one declaration, he could stop the blatant misinformation being pushed by the RCC in Africa. He can do that. But he hasn't. Why?

[cheapdate]

221. It has only just now dawned on me

what you were talking about, and that RCC is the Roman Catholic Church. I had assumed something else.

To your point, I have near-zero knowledge about the RCC in Africa. But the Pope certainly has the authority to dictate church policy, practice, doctrine, etc.

I'm not in any way religious, apart from occasionally entertaining vaguely pantheistic notions, and being a sometimes supporter of Odin (Wotan) and Freya.

But Pope Francis, for all his human faults, is a good person and I'm more pleased with him as Pope than I would have ever thought was possible.

[trotsky]

222. You and I seem to have a different concept of what a "good person" is.

Someone who says that same-sex marriage is from the devil, that gay couples adopting children is child abuse, that promoting acceptance of transgender people is akin to the Hitler youth, who refuses to allow people to use condoms to save their lives... I just can't call someone like that a "good person."

It seems our discussion is at an end.

[n2doc]

25. I've had arguments with otherwise reasonable people over this

They still think technology will save us.

[haikugal]

94. Frightening isn't it?!

[n2doc]

99. And I just got into another one over Kim Davis's visit

Seems like in some people's eyes Francis can do no wrong.

[haikugal]

104. Yeah, religion will do that to you.

Good luck

[Kelvin Mace]

205. To quote a famous engineer

Ya canna repeal the laws of physics.

[itcfish]

12. Excuse Me

Show a little respect for some of us Catholics in DU. And no, this Pope is NOT the same as all the rest. He has given many hope, so please don't destroy all that he has built because he does not agree with you 100%

[Drunken Irishman]

17. I'm Catholic lol

[WheelWalker]

56. You could have fooled me. Guess I missed the sarcasm thingy in your OP.

[Codeine]

24. He didn't say "fuck the Catholics"

now did he?

[itcfish]

235. Right

Over your heads

[Bluenorthwest]

59. The Pope needs to show some respect to LGBT persons worldwide.

The OP spoke of the Pope who is a person, not a group of people.

[HERVEPA]

80. Uh, once again ,fuck the pope.

Homophobe met with Kim Davis.
And no, religion neither gets or deserves any dispensation from the truth.

[malaise]

13. All religion is BS n/t

[HERVEPA]

82. Good grief. I'm agreeing with Malaise again.

[ancianita]

14. With you, man. Believers are the bane of the planet.

[joeybee12]

15. KNR...

This pr saavy pope would have denied meeting with the idiot Davis had it not happened.

[Drunken Irishman]

20. Vatican confirmed the meeting.

[joeybee12]

23. Thanks...last I saw was "no comment"...nt

[SidDithers]

21. DU rec...

Sid

[Nye Bevan]

22. Did you say "Fuck Barack Obama" back when he too opposed marriage equality?

[roody]

27. I did.

[LostOne4Ever]

28. Does Obama still oppose gay rights like the pope does? (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

32. The Pope's position on marriage equality is identical to Obama's pre-May 2012 position.

I hope that the Pope continues to evolve on this issue just as Barack Obama did. As well as Bill and Hillary Clinton and many others.

[LostOne4Ever]

34. In other words....the pope doesn't share Obama's position

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Maybe you are saying the pope made statements of support of gay marriage like Obama did before he started running for pope like Obama did for president?[/font]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2009/01/obama-backed-same-sex-marriage-in-1996-015306

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Oh wait, no he didn't. He did the exact opposite and called gay adoption discrimination to boot:[/font]

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-abortion-and-homosexual-marriage[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]He wrote: “In the coming weeks, the Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family. . . .

“At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother, and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

Cardinal Bergoglio continued: “Let us not be naive: this is not simply a political struggle, but it is an attempt to destroy God’s plan. It is not just a bill (a mere instrument) but a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

The cardinal also noted that “today the country, in this particular situation, needs the special assistance of the Holy Spirit to bring the light of truth on to the darkness of error, it need this advocate to defend us from being enchanted by many fallacies that are tried at all costs to justify this bill and to confuse and deceive the people of good will.”

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]It is almost like Obama always was for gay marriage but changed his stance to make him electable and the moment it came up as president went back to his real position...

The pope has made NO evolution on this issue at all. IF HE does, I will commend him. Until then he is a bigot.[/font]

[whatthehey]

37. Obama thought gay marriage was derived from Satan? I missed that..

[Bluenorthwest]

61. That is false. Francis has called marriage equality 'a machination of the Father of Lies'

and he has claimed that LGBT people being parents is child abuse. You claim Obama said that gay rights were Satan's idea? The positions are not the same at all. Not even close.

[PeaceNikki]

31. Did Obama ever call it a threat? Call gay adoption "child abuse"?

[jeff47]

46. Could you quote where Obama said marriage equality came from Satan? (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

47. He said "marriage is between a man and a woman.... God is in the mix".

So he was saying that gay marriage is against God, just as Satan is.

[whatthehey]

51. Damn with that stretch we have a new Fantastic 4 member

Galliano is in the mix in a Harvey Wallbanger but it doesn't mean a Screwdriver is the anti-liqueur.

[Bluenorthwest]

68. You used the word 'identical' and many people have pointed out that they do not agree with your

definition of identical. You could have just said 'Obama also opposed marriage equality' but that's not what you wanted for yourself, so you said he and the Pope held identical positions which they did not. Words mean things. Religion and government are both made of words. So use them with respect.

[Nye Bevan]

72. Prior to May 2012 Barack Obama opposed gay marriage for religious reasons ("God in in the mix").

Today the Pope opposes gay marriage for religious reasons.

I see these as substantially identical stances. And again, I hope that the Pope eventually evolves in the same way that Obama has.

[Bluenorthwest]

83. The Pope said marriage equality was an attack on God's plan foisted by Satan and he called

our families a form of child abuse. Obama did not such thing. Jesus said 'let your yes mean yes and your no mean no'. Identical means 'exactly the same as' and you wanted that word even though it does not apply. I get the tactic, I just think it is furtive and evasive and not the sort of thing a person should do.

[Nye Bevan]

86. "Marriage is between a man and a woman.... God is in the mix".

OK, let's go with "substantively identical".

[jeff47]

73. You could have just said "No" and saved yourself some embarrassment. (nt)

[dbackjon]

105. I did. Many times

Was among dozens of LGBT DU'ers and their supporters banned from here for 2 years over it.

[DemocraticWing]

122. When he was pandering to homophobes? Then yes.

I'm glad he's changed now. I would not have voted for him in 2012 had he not.

[philosslayer]

175. So you voted for John McCain in 2008??

[DemocraticWing]

246. I supported Obama in 2008.

McCain is quite clearly worse on gay rights than Obama. In 2012, had Obama broken his promises to stand up for LGBT people, I would not have been able to justify voting for either major party candidate.

But he did keep his promises, and he got the votes of the LGBTQ community as a result.

[treestar]

140. A lot of people have changed their minds

If they didn't, gay marriage would still be imaginary.

I don't get the continuing to resent people when they've come over to your side. Seems pointless.

[JI7]

149. Obama opposed Any bans on gay marriage.

[Humanist_Activist]

171. I did. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

29. I completely agree

I am VERY disappointed.

[LostOne4Ever]

33. Quite a few of us were wrong about this man when he first became pope

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]The important thing is that we followed the evidence and realized our mistake.

Thanks for coming around [/font]

[Elmergantry]

106. You actaully believe he was going to change Church Doctrine?

You have a lot to learn about the CC. Changing doctrine doesnt happen. Shifting Church emphasis on its teachings does however happen. Thats all you have witnessed from Francis.

[LostOne4Ever]

111. The church will change doctrine if its survival depends on it

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]If enough people see the evils of the doctrine and leave that could happen one day.

Do I think that is going to happen right away? No.

But putting continual pressure on them will make that more likely to occur in the distant future.

Conversely, praising him without actual change will only defeats the hope of the church ever changing. The pope love on DU only makes change take longer.[/font]

[Elmergantry]

116. Not a chance in hell. (pun intended)

They were more willing to fed to lions first. That hasnt changed.

[LostOne4Ever]

123. I will tell that to Charlemagne nt

[Elmergantry]

124. If you are claiming he had the Church change a Doctrine

By all means please explain. News to me.

[LostOne4Ever]

134. Oh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabus_of_Errors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dignitatis_humanae

[hr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vix_pervenit

[hr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery#Catholic_teaching

[hr]

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Church never changes doctrine...it just "develops"...[/font]

[Elmergantry]

141. Understand what is meant by "Doctrine"

"Official Church Doctrine" I refer to are those teachings proclaimed to be infallible and thus unchangeable. Once declared as such, often thru a papal bull, there is no change. Up until it is declared the teaching is fluid (for a lack of a better term). For example the church teaching about the assumption of Mary was present from the beginning, but remained subject to discussion in the magesterium until it was declared infallible in the 1950's. Abortion was declared intrinsically evil infallibly by John Paull II. Same for homosexuality. So no matter what flowery words a Pope may say, once a teaching is considered infallible, it doesnt change. Ever.
So one shouldnt get their hopes up.

BTW Some current Church teachings that are not declared infallible: death penalty, contraception.

[LostOne4Ever]

147. And even those will change

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]If the leadership thinks that their church is about to die entirely.[/font]

[Elmergantry]

148. Obviously a matter of opinion.

But I cant see it. The last time the Church ever was remotely close to dying out due to doctrinal differences was during the Protestant Reformation. There was no change of doctrine as a result of it, and the Church still exists. Todays disagreements on Church doctrine and the possible dying due to it comes nowhere near the level of doctrinal discord witnessed by the Reformation.

But I guess we agree to disagree.

[SmittynMo]

35. I can't believe everything I just read

Yeah, so you got an issue with the pope. Why advertise?

[Arugula Latte]

133. What?

Why "advertise" if you have an issue with a Republican? Why even comment on a board or even hold any opinions, for that matter?

[MrMickeysMom]

245. It's not just the Pope...

I think their are major issues here of what is posted and how it's delivered. Nothing low key will do for the proper effect.

It's like that movie, Kindergarten Cop, when Arnold Swartzeneger comes into a classroom full of these little kids and one of the little, tiny, squeaky big headed boy puts up his hand, only to announce, "Women have vaginas and boys have penises!"

Then, everyone in the audience thinks it's so classic. I mean... How cute is that?

[gaspee]

36. Not just gay rights

That's bad enough, but his and his entire church's views and rules for women - half the human population - disqualifies him from being a decent human being. When the catholic church starts treating women as full human beings capable of self-determination and not as baby machines, I might change my mind. And when are they going to give up the whole - woman was created from man thing? Last I checked in medical textbooks, men aren't missing a rib.

[99th_Monkey]

38. UN-rec -nt-

[mmonk]

39. By all means, throw the baby out

with the bath water. We all need a god all can worship like Jamie Dimon

[Bluenorthwest]

75. That's very dishonest, you are suggesting that those who object to bigotry and anti choice views

worship Jamie Dimon? That's nasty stuff. You are accusing everyone who does not accept anti gay and anti choice activism of serving money. You are pushing up right beside making a massively bigoted statement.

[mmonk]

84. I do suggest it. As Nancy Pelosi said,

Elizabeth Warren doesn't represent the Democratic Party and it's views. I'm not dishonest at all.

[Bluenorthwest]

161. Well you are incorrect. People who oppose bigotry are good people who are not bigots, those who

condone bigotry contribute to the atmosphere of real world violence that causes bias attacks against LGBT persons in great numbers in this country. Abroad, those of you who defend the Pope are defending the policy of teaching people to abstain from using condoms, even in places like Africa where over 100,000 persons a month die from AIDS year in and year out. They are defending the policy that refuses to the poor in those countries any sexual education or honest disease prevention information or tools.
That's what you are saying, those who are good endorse that as honorable and all the rest are servants of money. You spit on those who try to save lives with knowledge and science and you offer praise to those who offer deadly dogmatic dictates to people who look to them for guidance. You say that to be critical of this action is to be in service to Jamie Dimon?
Who then is in service to the millions in Africa living with HIV, the orphans left by the AIDS death march? Do they cross the minds of any of you who are so hot to relate all of these issues to petty American political concerns? Obviously not.

[MineralMan]

40. I'm not sure that posting "Fuck the Pope" is useful

in any way. I disagree with his support of Kim Davis and her flaunting of the law. However, it serves no useful purpose to hurl imprecations at the Pope. Better to simply disagree with what he did when he does something that goes against real morality. Calling him a "piece of shit" doesn't do much, either, except to piss off a lot of people you might want on your side.

[For Freddie]

115. Thank You...

For wisdom and balance. One can disagree with someone without hating them and abusing them. But it takes maturity to learn that.
I remember my vehemence toward Nixon. It was not helpful for me or my kids. Hate is Fear it makes us weak.

Religion is Family. Even when we leave the church we still love those still enmeshed with it because they are family. My Daddy had every view the Pope had about women children and family. He was born in 1919, his parents in 1894 and his grandma in 1863. I knew all of them. And loved them. Didn't agree with them but loved them.
Saw them as part of the past culture.

We see the sadness in many who leave churches, LDS, Catholic, even Orthodox Judaism and leaving loved ones and family behind.
So I have learned to be careful with hate speech about this and other issues. We don't HAVE to hate what we disagree with or who we disagree with. It bleeds us of positive energy to change and heal all the errors of the past.

I am a graduate of St. Cloud. Lived in Minn. 5 years. in the early 1970's. Live in Az. 32 years. Like the weather better here.

[damnedifIknow]

41. Disturbing to know he met with that ignorant bigot Kim Davis

[Tommymac]

42. Praise the Pope.

I say that as someone who was raised Catholic but is now a sincere agnostic. Behind all his pretty talk he's just a human struggling to find Truth in a Crazy World ruled by a few very greedy people and the minions they have brainwashed. He does talk most impressively about the poor, greed and global warming and his cloth is cut from the same people who are trying to find real solutions to Global problems using honesty, intellect and heart.

The Pope is flawed, as is Christianity. The Pope is attempting to right some wrongs he sees within the Catholic Church.

I'm ashamed, and embarrassed, that I thought he was another conservative ideologue bound totally by the strictures of his forebears. Forgive me for not drinking the Pope-aid sooner. He's dealing with a shitty hand that he was dealt by the oligarchs who control the Globe to help the 99% as best he can within the constraints of his chosen belief system.

[Arugula Latte]

170. Since when did the RCC and its head concern itself with "truth"?

They have used their nonsensical mythologies (a dead dude coming back to life, virgin birth, damnation in a fiery pit, blood turning into wine, etc.) for centuries as tools to control and oppress people, namely women and gays. And all their grifting and plunder has paid off handsomely as they've raked in untold riches and savagely wielded power over the duped residents of many of this planet's countries.

[Tommymac]

208. Not as much as the oligarchs have in the last half century.

I'll stick to my opinion - Pope Francis is basically a good person. He is the leader of a major religion. And he has to play some politics too. Within his framework I am impressed how liberal he is on a lot of things, especially the Climate and fighting the oligarchs.

I applaud him for going against the conservatives in his Church as much as he has. Compare him to the previous ultra conservative German Pope - omg what a bastard.

That said imho all organized religions are basically cruel and indifferent to those who are not mainstreaming them - that is partly why I am an agnostic. And why in the long run all organized religions must go. But until that happens - one step at a time.

[riverbendviewgal]

43. The Pope has said good things but

I am waiting for him to owe up to his participation in the "missing" Argentinians that occurred while he was head Jesuit in the 70s.

He never spoke up for those.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War

[angrychair]

44. For me

Its not so much the man as the institution.
Francis may well be a good person but he works for a falsehood and his sole purpose to his existense is to entice others to believe in that falsehood.
There is nothing above us but the greatness of the universe and nothing below our feet but the wonder of an underground world.
The only thing that keeps us from either is us.

[floriduck]

45. If you can't say anything good about the Pope,

then say it about Bernie Sanders.

[wolfie001]

48. Seems to me the Pope threw all the proGay Marriage proponents under the bus!

....and he did it in a backroom, cowardly way. Maybe Sen. McCrappy pants was in on it because he just spoke recently about that lunatic's right to discriminate. She has a governmental duty to run her department in a non-biased way. They'll lose in the long run but this road block set up by the Pope will slow the process immensely. Sad and pathetic

[saturnsring]

49. raised Catholic.

[kentuck]

50. I'm not a knee-jerk reactionary...

I'm not a knee-jerk reactionary.

I'm not a knee-jerk reactionary.

[Android3.14]

53. You lost some respect on this one

Hopeful agnostic and recovering Catholic here. Yesterday I thought you were better than ranting and frothing. Apparently I was wrong.

Anything specific the Pope can do to make you happy?

The childlike disappointment by some because the Pope doesn't tear his shirt and denounce all 2000-plus years of Catholicism or promote their pet issue is less than pathetic.

[Lordquinton]

127. LGBTQIA and Women's rights = Pet issues

You read it here first.

[Arugula Latte]

169. So dismissive of more than half the population...

I don't think you've "recovered" enough from your Catholicism.

[whatthehey]

58. It might be more useful - although then again - if you "prayered" for the RCC to enter modern times

And stop doing their best to prevent family planning and HIV mitigation, condemning countless people to poverty and death; stop getting in between women, their doctors and their own bodies; stop calling same sex families child abusers derived from Satan and a threat to "real" families.

But no, somebody saying "fuck" to Frankie Photo-Op is worse than all that to you, eh?

[Logical]

60. Prayer works? Really? Nt

[Codeine]

66. Are you shitting me?

Did I stumble into fucking FreeRepublic by mistake?!

[zappaman]

156. Well, is it getting harder to tell these days...

[JTFrog]

85. I don't prayer with you. n/t

[Codeine]

101. Ha!

Well done

[Arugula Latte]

143. LOL!

Talk about horrific things -- have you ever looked at the bloody reign of terror, (literal) rape, and pillage the RCC has waged for centuries? It's amazing people continue to defend this medieval, oppressive institution in which a band of rich, privileged men scam the gullible by waving silly primitive myths in front of them as bait so they can control them, exploit them, and keep them subservient (especially women).

A lot of us have had enough of all the kowtowing to this disgusting grifting scam known as the RCC.

[Codeine]

179. I think he realized how dumb he sounded --

all evidence purged.

[SpankMe]

55. You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Yes, he hasn't changed centuries old church doctrine on anything.

But, his tone and implementation of doctrine has attenuated the harshness with which the church treats certain subjects. This may be a stepping stone toward some changes in the future. (The church is not known for its speed in evolution on issues.)

Abortion is still a firm no-no, but he says that women who have abortions can be forgiven. You didn't see the previous pope saying this.

He's declared that the environment has rights! You think Ratzinger would have said that?

The man's 80% or more in line with progressive values. Let's take what we can get on that front and build on it.

[LostOne4Ever]

65. Actually His position on the environment is identical to Ratzinger nt

[Lordquinton]

129. Less than 50% in line

Given that he still believes in oppressing women and LGBTQIA.

His other views are pretty much identical to his predecessor (Who resigned in disgrace over the child abuse scandal, which is something else Francis has made no real change in, but has talked really nicely about making change)

He offered a year of absolution for women who have had abortions, which pretty much just reminds everyone that those women did something wrong and need forgiveness, when in reality he's the one who should be begging for it on that issue.

Yea, I won't be happy until he allows women as priests and performs a marriage for two women. It's 2015, he's learned to use Twitter, he can learn to not be a misogynistic bigot.

[90-percent]

57. f.t.p.

Well, at least he had the courage to neither confirm or deny that he had a secret meeting with Christian Right Superstar of the month Kim Davis!

-90% Jimmy



And, frankly, I'm mixed. It is nice he's promoting a lot of Bernie's Presidential platform, but I can't get past things like THE SECOND LARGEST REAL ESTATE HOLDER IN NYC IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH! That's a lot of expensive real estate presumably dedicated to serving, protecting and feeding the poor and less fortunate.

[WheelWalker]

62. Fuck the Irish...

if they can't hold their liquor.

[bobthedrummer]

63. As a non-denominational Christian from the Judeo-Christian culture I'd say you are the real bigot.

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. The pope wants LGBT people discriminated against, because of their nature

That's what makes him a bigot. You are accusing a DUer of being a bigot for taking the pope at his word about his desire for discrimination.

You're wrong, and rude.

[bobthedrummer]

257. So you say, not the Pope. You are absolutely wrong about "nature", and bigotry muriel_volestrangler

Look at all nature, leave out God as Creator, look at all natural law and what does one find?
Eggs and seeds indeed. Males and females. That's where I or anyone else not blind to a simple fact of LIFE can get labeled "wrong",right???

[muriel_volestrangler]

258. Really? You have gone on record on DU as pointing out that male and female is what is 'natural'

and thus that the pope is not the bigot for his anti-LGBT work?

Let's just check out today's Catholic LGBT news:

VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican on Saturday fired a monsignor who came out as gay on the eve of a big meeting of the world's bishops to discuss church outreach to gays, divorcees and more traditional Catholic families.

The Vatican took action after Krzysztof Charamsa, a mid-level official in its doctrine office, came out in newspaper interviews in Italy and Poland saying he was happy and proud to be a gay priest, and that he was in love with a man whom he identified as his boyfriend.

"The decision to make such a pointed statement on the eve of the opening of the synod appears very serious and irresponsible, since it aims to subject the synod assembly to undue media pressure," the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said in a statement.

As a result, Charamsa could no longer work at the Vatican or its pontifical universities, he said. Despite his dismissal, Charamsa remains a priest, although Lombardi hinted that his superiors could take further action.
. . . .

http://www.mail.com/news/world/3863332-vatican-fires-gay-priest-eve-synod.html#.23140-stage-hero1-8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027226700

It doesn't look good for the pope, or for people wittering on about 'natural law' being about 'males and females', does it?

[Arugula Latte]

183. The Pope opposes gay marriage, gay adoption, and women's rights to control their bodies.

Women are denied power in his institution.

Do you consider that bigotry? If not, why?

[Tommy2Tone]

95. Of course it our business when a bigot gets an audience with the pope.

I could not disagree with you more.

If it's wasn't a big deal why would he meet here secretly? The answer is obvious. He supports her views and will probably nominate her for sainthood. The media has portrayed hin sdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasda

[HERVEPA]

151. Hate to break it to you, but your imaginary cloud being is a figment of your imagination.

[Hiraeth]

70. All of him or just the parts that you don't like?

[Democrats_win]

71. This Pope is good, but the church is very bad!

In fact the church--Protestant & Catholic--has spent the past 35 years harping over abortion and gays. We now understand that the Bible barely mentions these while it always talks about the poor and being kind to others. Was the church simply fooled into performing the political wishes of the GOP? Or did their rich donors demand that they talk about Abortion & gays instead of God and Generosity? The sins of the church, one piled upon another, are reaching toward the heavens and God will surely notice.

[lobodons]

76. Not even the Pope

Not even the Pope is infallible.

[KentuckyWoman]

79. I'm pretty sure the Pope

doesn't fuck.

[wendylaroux]

110. you're

just pretty sure?

[KentuckyWoman]

210. Yup, just "pretty sure".

He promised he wouldn't do that sort of thing but broken promises and humans kinda go together like peas and carrots.

Leaders in the Catholic church included.

[Tommy2Tone]

87. Yea he lost me when he met with the witch in Kentucky

Till then he pretty much had me.

[tavernier]

88. Yeah, that word just isn't as attention grabbing

as it once was, since nowadays it's in every schoolyard, song lyric and bingo parlor.

I still prefer Shit. Covers all sorts of situations. It's a classic, and pertains to all of us, whereas I suspect the people who rely on Fuck only do so because they seldom get the opportunity.

[Act_of_Reparation]

92. That certainly was a fine display of self-congratulatory bullshit.

Do you feel better now?

[tavernier]

97. Bullshit works too.

Thanks for making my point!
😘

[hunter]

90. No thanks, he's not my type.

[SidDithers]

91. ...

Written for Ratz, but just as appropriate for Frankie.

Sid

[dbackjon]

102. Agreed - I never bought his kool-aid to begin with

[tinkerbelle]

107. It was a shit thing to do,

for sure. But religion seldom fails to disappoint, in my experience.

[Jester Messiah]

108. Dude... I get that religion is bullshit and harmful, but...

this guy is at least heading in the right direction. We need to encourage the trend. Naked hostility is not the way to do that.

[Darb]

121. I've been trying to suggest that and keep getting clobbered (and alerted on)

I guess it is all about gay marriage and abortion. Nothing else seems to register. I hope they realize that they are turning off some of their allies with the ridiculous hating on the Pope. Marriage equality is a reality, period. But I guess everyone must celebrate it or get shunned. Sounds familiar.

[Humanist_Activist]

173. "this guy is at least heading in the right direction." Well, rightward is right, but seriously,

what does this mean? He mirrors the positions of the previous Pope, the one that most on DU called "The Nazi Pope", and people praise this Pope for it.

[CharlotteVale]

109. Also raised Catholic and ITA. However, I never had

any illusions about him whatsoever. The Catholic Church is never going to change on gay rights. Or women's rights. It will just put a kinder gentler face on its hatefulness. And it's obviously snowing a whole lot of people.

[Gloria]

112. Saw a priest yesterday with the stop abortion crazies and gave him the big finger

Here in NM, this bunch has a ton of influence and they go up to Santa Fe to lobby...

So, TAX the shit out of them....as well as all the other "churches" that are in bed with the GOP...

I'm seething in general after that crap with Planned Parenthood...planning to call Chaffetz's office and ask to be reminded how much he's getting paid to sit there and lie through his teeth....

And, McCarthy and Hillary....Bill is completely right...it's deliberate...

SCREW them.

[wendylaroux]

118. doesn't this pope man

know right from wrong??

[KamaAina]

125. Sorry, no can do.

He's celibate.

[Arugula Latte]

144. Supposedly.

It's not like any of those Catholic grand poohbahs would ever lie about a thing like that, right? Perish the thought!

[KamaAina]

145. Well, I am over 18

so my statement stands.

[mhatrw]

126. Who knew the Pope was Catholic?

Overreact much?

The Pope and the Catholic Church were just as wrong about gay rights and reproductive freedom before we knew the Pope glad-handed Kim Davis as they are after we know the Pope glad-handed Kim Davis.

On the bright side, the Pope's stance in favor of the rights of conscientious objectors should apply equally to Catholics who object to his church's teaching on gay rights and reproductive freedom.

[Tarheel_Dem]

128. I'm not Catholic, but I was diggin' on this Pope as much as anyone. The fact that he felt the need

to have a clandestine meeting with the most despicable woman in America, complete with wigs & camouflage, speaks to a disingenuous heart. I no longer heart the Pope, and that makes me sad. However, if he's able to change the discussion on climate change and taking care of the poor, I will be grateful for that.

[MineralMan]

131. No. Just Ignore Him.

Easier and far less messy.

[0rganism]

136. or do what the rightwingers do

i.e., cite him and quote him only when his positions on an issue align with theirs

[temporary311]

138. I'm not sure how different this Pope is from the previous one.

He just has more energy and doesn't look like the Emperor.

[WestSeattle2]

152. It's religion - it's all nonsense. The fact that so many fan

this guy with fig leaves is absolutely laughable.

[Rex]

153. Well if he cared about human rights, he would go after all the priests that rape boys in church.

Not to mention the Churches deplorable view on women and the LGBT community.

[Warren DeMontague]

160. No thanks.

He's not my type.

[nichomachus]

164. Not hate -- justifiable anger over a pompous anti-gay bigot. n/t

[EvolveOrConvolve]

200. You know what I hate?

I hate the propping up of misogynists by alleged Progressives in an attempt to crown him sort sort of moral, populist king.

[saturnsring]

229. i think a lot here are overlooking the good b/c of the bad, letting perfect be the enemy of good

I think that because im neither gay or a woman that I am less focused on that aspect and that I should keep that in mind in discussions of this kind. my point is that I think this pope is much better than the previous popes and he ought to be given some credit for it but I should also recognize that in other aspects he still the same pope.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

238. That's like saying one turd is tastier than another

At its root, the RCC is a misogynistic and anti-LGBT organization, and the pope, no matter how pretty they dress up his image, is still the leader of the RCC. So even if there are tasty nuggets of corn in this turd, it's still, at heart, a turd.

I'm not going to give credit to any pope, no matter how many feet they wash or homeless people they dine with, because as God's annointed those things should be expected. When this pope comes out in favor of women in the priesthood and gay marriage and gay rights, I might begin to respect him more. It'd also earn my respect if he decided to cash in some of the church's trillions of dollars in assets to eradicate hunger and treatable diseases in the 3rd world.

It's sort of an extreme example, but I'm not going to praise the KKK just because they adopted a section of highway and cleaned it up. It's still the KKK after all.

[Arugula Latte]

167. Yeah, I agree -- because people are STILL defending an anti-gay, anti-women BIGOT.

[beam me up scottie]

172. How dare we despise people who want to take away our human rights!!!

The fucking nerve of women and lgbt people, we should just smile while the religious bigots blather on and on about how we're not as worthy as straight males.

[saturnsring]

189. the church cant take away your rights

[beam me up scottie]

190. Doesn't stop them from helping my government take them away.

[saturnsring]

192. that's the right-wing and they dont need the church for that

take away the church and they would still be doing what they have been doing.

[beam me up scottie]

193. Ever hear of Prop 8? Hobby Lobby? Amendment 1 in Tennessee?

[saturnsring]

194. take away the church and those things would still happen they would

ever hear of the death penalty - the pope spoke out against it so now the right-wing is against it? - the pope spoke about global climate change so the rightwing is now all about the environment. hasnt he also spoken about taking care of the poor, the right is still about punishing the poor.

take away the church and the right would still be trying to victimize you, they dont need the church theyre just using it

[beam me up scottie]

196. So because the right does the same thing I should let the Church "victimize" me too?

How about I make it fair:



Fuck the Catholic Church, fuck the Pope and fuck ALL of the religious right wing bigots who think women and lgbt people are second class citizens.



Feel better now?


You're welcome.

[saturnsring]

197. goodnight

[EvolveOrConvolve]

198. Sometimes it's best to retreat

Especially when you're getting your ass handed to you.

[saturnsring]

231. i goodnite cause it was time to go home

[EvolveOrConvolve]

240. My apologies if it came off as negative

There's a large contingent of people at DU that when losing an argument, abandon it with the "I'm taking my marbles and going home" gambit.

[Codeine]

180. Well, with that syntax you'd fit right in

with that semi-literate lot.

[saturnsring]

188. lame

[EvolveOrConvolve]

199. You're equating our defending of pro-LGBT positions and reproductive rights to the freepers

It's like we're living in bizarro-world when an anti-LGBT and anti-choice religious leader is being defended on a Progressive web site.

[saturnsring]

230. i did some thinking on this and youre right, im wrong and i apologize

it's just he seems to me to be a different kind of pope and i thought he ought to get credit for it

[EvolveOrConvolve]

239. He's better in some areas, yes, but that doesn't make him "good"

Anyone who thinks LGBT couples shouldn't have the same rights as a straight couple is a bad person in my book, no matter how much he's been marketed as a great liberal lion of modern Catholicism.

If an organization blatantly fights against basic human rights, I consider them a hate group. Maybe that's extreme, but I'm tired of being told to be tolerant of an intolerant institution.

ETA: I'm glad that you apologized and admitted your mistake. It's something I rarely see on DU any more; most battles here are to the death, and your words belie a sense of honor that's been missing from DU for a long time.

[saturnsring]

253. thank you for your kind words

[melman]

176. How long would a thread last if it said "fuck the Grand Imam"?

Not very long.

[Codeine]

181. It's a War on Christianity!!

*swoon*

[LostOne4Ever]

182. I don't follow the Grand Imam but if he has said the same things about women and the LGBTQ community

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]He can go fuck himself too.

There I said it.

All the people who promote hate against women/gender and sexual minorities can go fuck themselves![/font]

[Warren Stupidity]

186. I dunno, your post is still here, so at least 80 minutes.

[beam me up scottie]

191. Is he going to be here next lecturing us about religious "family" values?

[WinkyDink]

217. Perhaps. After Europe.

[beam me up scottie]

218. If he comes here to promote religious bigotry then I'll post in a thread that says fuck him too.

[Humanist_Activist]

201. Is there a Grand Imam who holds a similar position to the Pope? n/t

[darkangel218]

177. I once said the same, but have changed my mind since

It's not the fault of the Pope, or his religion. It's the fault of those who chose to take religious beliefs literally, who become fundamentalists and who lose touch with reality. It's also the fault of those who try to make laws and mingle religion with the state/federal laws.

It's really not the Pope's fault in the end. He's not forcing anyone to do anything. Not his fault that so many have lost their mind.

Thats my 2c. I believe in freedom of religion, and to each their own.

[Peace Patriot]

184. This is infantile. Say what you want--

I totally support your right to do so (and imagined you in an Irish pub bringing down the house with this remark!) (--my first reaction was to laugh!). (I'm Irish.) But do know that people will take this in many ways that you may not have thought about--as a laugh, as an insult, as stupid, as infantile.

That's my take on it. Easy to say, "Fuck ___ (somebody)!" Not so easy to figure out how to deal with them. I think that most often that rude dismissal points to powerlessness. We can't get rid of Bush, no matter what we do, so we say "Fuck Bush!" What does it do? Nothing. Just lets off steam. What has happened to our political system, that that fuckwad got into the White House, is a much tougher thing to think about. How to reform the Catholic Church, so that it gives up its very un-Christlike male pomposity and hypocrisy (not to mention monarchy? Not easy.

[Arugula Latte]

250. The way to "reform" the Catholic Church is to stop supporting it with money and butts in the seats.

It needs to wither and die. It has inflicted enough harm on this planet -- particularly on female humans.

Shame on people who call themselves "liberal" and continue to prop up this malevolent medieval institution.

[Warren Stupidity]

185. By tradition Irish men have stood outside the doors of the awful church.

We have known for a long time that this organization is not out to do good, it is instead out to keep itself in business, and has a thousand years of institutional history on how to do that.

[ReactFlux]

187. spoken like a Drunken Irishman

[lonestarnot]

195. Eee gads.

[stopbush]

203. Fuck the pope, fuck Xianity and fuck religion in general.

[glinda]

204. What is even sadder is that her supporters not only are bigots and asses but

total Climate Change deniers. The biggest boat load of special interest bizarros to walk the face of this parched Planet right now.
How quick one meeting (if he understood the issues or not) unravels all of his better work.

[mountain grammy]

209. I've been thinking about this post all day...

and have concluded that I completely agree.

[Hepburn]

215. It pains me, but I now, too, agree.

I liked him...him and his little Fiat. Seemed to be a man of the people. And I am so anti-RC Church. Having a positive feeling about the Pope? Had been a really nice feeling.

Then the private meeting with Kim Davis? Yeah, fuck the Pope!

[WinkyDink]

216. Did you expect the Pope to be an Episcopalian?

[Walk away]

220. I have to agree. He's just a P.R. ploy to cover up a global organization...

famous for it's connection to organized crime, it's shameful harboring of decades (perhaps centuries) of pedophilia and sexual abuse and a string of Popes who rivaled Marie Antoinette for behind the, barely hidden, financial and sexual debauchery while so many of their faithful live in poverty.

This Pope "seems" like a nice man but, what nice man let's himself be used as the spokesperson for thousands of years of war, torture, intolerance?

[TeeYiYi]

236. Oh, what a nice guy...

TYY

[uppityperson]

223. It saddens me to read and hear more and more that people are expected to be all good or all bad.

Each of us is complicated, a mixture of this and bad. Appreciate the good, with against the bad.

[rockfordfile]

225. I agree

I agree to a point,but I think all religion is the problem.

[left-of-center2012]

227. I'm Buddhist - but the Pope earned my respect

He's now lost it.
All of it.

[YoungDemCA]

232. I'm just gonna repost what I posted in another thread the other day.

In shocking news, it has been confirmed that the Pope is indeed, Catholic.

Also, the Pope is both the leader of a worldwide religious organization whose hierarchy prides itself on resisting change, and a head of state. This shouldn't be forgotten.

[saturnsring]

247. perhaps this might help alittle. Pope Francis Rejects Kim Davis’s Account Of Meeting And Refuses To

Pope Francis Rejects Kim Davis’s Account Of Meeting And Refuses To Endorse Her Bigotry

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027223688

[LostOne4Ever]

248. See this post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7224105

[saturnsring]

254. The only thing that is really questionable is was it a private visit or not. in short , not.

The Pope briefly met Kim Davis as part of a group, had no idea who she was, said hello to her, and moved on.

The Vatican’s version of events is the opposite of what Davis’s supporters are claiming happened. The anti-gay marriage crowd claimed that the Pope met with Davis in secret and expressed his support for her bigotry. The right has been using the imaginary meeting as an endorsement of their out of step views.

The extremist conservative movement’s attempt to use Pope Francis for propaganda purposes has fallen apart. Davis’s invitation had been extended by Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the envoy in Washington. Viganò is well known to have gone further than others in the church in his campaign against gay marriage. The Pope did not invite Davis to meet him. In fact, according to the Vatican, Pope Francis had not been briefed on the situation and knew nothing about Davis.

The fact that the Vatican took such pains to distance themselves from Davis could logically be viewed as a rejection of her beliefs.
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/02/pope-francis-throws-kim-davis-bigotry-bus.html

[LostOne4Ever]

255. She never claimed he knew who she was and there is no evidence what he did or didn't say to her

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Further, she never said the pope set it up either.

You and the article are making up claims and inferring details NOT in either Davis's claim nor the vatican's response.

The sad fact is, he does support her as evidenced by the churches official stance on the issues and his own comments on Conscientious objectors.

The fact that the Vatican took such pains to distance themselves from her could logically be veiewed as damage control by a pope who has been trying to get liberals to come back to the church without actually changing anything.[/font]

[beam me up scottie]

256. Nope. Still say fuck all religious bigots.

He endorsed her bigotry when he defended her decision to deprive lgbt Americans of their rights by calling her a "conscientious objector".

[Smarmie Doofus]

252. He's a politician.

He wouldn't be "pope" if he wasn't.