Is there any difference between a maggot infestation and the NRA after a mass shooting?

[whereisjustice]

Both show up to feast where ever there is death, while the corpses are still warm.

Both are an excellent bait food. For fish. For Congress.

No, I guess there isn't much difference between the two.

[Thor_MN]

1. Well, maggots can serve useful purposes. The NRA, umm... nothing comes to mind.

[Major Nikon]

43. Unintentional humor?

http://wonkette.com/453659/nra-chief-obama-trying-to-steal-your-guns-by-not-stealing-your-guns

[Vinca]

2. Stop insulting maggots.

[nolabels]

58. Maggots are not insulted, they just just looking for the next meal

When I was mechanic working for waste company, on a hot day, the things (fly maggots) would sometimes fall off or maybe kind of jump off, and if i was anywhere near, on my creeper or whatever, they were making a bee line for me. They really don't care if the meat is alive or dead, they just want something to chew on.

[whereisjustice]

104. As many people pointed out to me, maggots are more honest creatures than the NRA

BTW - the visual of that story is Stephen King worthy.

Likable truck mechanic turns into crisis solving folk hero when maggots evolve a limited intelligence and take over Congress.

Non-fiction of course. Don't forget the movie rights!

[nolabels]

120. All things considered though, it would seem to me that maggots would be on the side of the NRA

It's like both elements are opportunists who find it easiest to prey on the helpless dead victims. You know how the maggots are, always looking for free meals. Something that happens when a hunter can't find his wounded prey and it dies hidden in the bush (or when not so bright men go to war and kill more than they can bury).

[whereisjustice]

122. A maggot might find it hard to pull a trigger, but perhaps NRA would build a gun so dangerous

even a maggot could fire it.

[nolabels]

124. Somehow it all kind of makes sense to me that a maggot would want to pull the trigger

I must confess, i am a spaghetti western fan, kinda

[branford]

3. Would you care to actually cite the NRA's comments about the Oregon shooting?

I haven't been able to locate any official statements by them at all concerning the tragedy, including their Twitter, Facebook, and web pages.

You've literally been cursing the NRA in dozens of posts in multiple threats over the last day or two. You are, of course, free to have any opinion about them. However, if you're claiming they're "feasting . . . while the corpses are still warm" concerning the Oregon shooting, and presumably want to enter into some kind of discussion since you authored an OP on a discussion forum, it would be, at a minimum, courteous to actually cite the NRA's statements you find so particularly egregious.

[whereisjustice]

4. I'll take that as a no.

[branford]

6. I'll take that as you're advancing nothing but strawman arguments,

along with juvenile and emotive outbursts, and don't really care what the NRA (or any other group) actually says, because you can apparently read their hearts and minds.

If you would like to actually have a discussion about what's wrong with NRA positions and policies (a very long list), I would welcome the opportunity. Puerile comparisons to "maggot infestations" and totally unsupported allegations claiming they're "feasting over the dead" in Oregon are certainly not the foundation for any civil discourse.

Whether you like them or not, the NRA-ILA is a laser focused, determined, highly organized, and frighteningly effective lobbying organization with just one purpose, protect the right to keep and bear arms in the USA. If the fight against the NRA is primarily comprised of meaningless babble, it's no wonder every recent poll from Gallup, Pew, and others indicate generational highs in support gun rights and against restriction, with such support steadily increasing.

[whereisjustice]

7. Yep, that's a no.

[msongs]

9. the purpose of the NRA is to sell guns for its corporate gun making owners nt

[branford]

13. I'll of inquire of you as I did the OP.

Can you provide any citations where the NRA made official statements even remotely "feasting over the dead" in Oregon?

[GGJohn]

28. No, that would be the NSSF,

the NRA is about firearm safety, and gun owner's rights.

[ellisonz]

105. ...

[GGJohn]

106. Awww, how cute. eom.

[backscatter712]

123. No, that's just the marketing pabulum. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

16. You're wrong about the mission of the NRA

The modern NRA exists to protect the lucrative marketplace for arms. Hiding behind 2A preservation is a marketing tactic.

Now the old time NRA, that was a benign club for sports.

[branford]

19. I'm not really trying to defend NRA policies,

mostly because their advocacy tends to hurt Democratic candidates (because our party has recently taken such a shrill anti-gun tone).

However, there's more than ample substantive, true material to discuss, debate and criticize, without any need for juvenile insults or strawman arguments. Efforts to counter the NRA with what amount to little more than playground antics and childlike insults are the reason why they are so strong, and opposition to firearm restrictions steadily growing.

I would also note the distinction between the NRA and the NRA-ILA. The latter is the infamous lobbying arm of the organization. The former is still the largest and most respected firearm safety, training, sport and hunting organization in the USA. Even in heavily Democratic and strong gun control jurisdictions, they are still the gold standard in firearms training and use, both for civilians and law enforcement.

[Gormy Cuss]

21. NRA-ILA is the NRA.

To create an artificial divide between the two is a handy way to present NRA as benign, helpful organization when it's really not. The lobbying arm is the NRA and it taints everything else that may be perceived as good about the NRA. Members could change this but instead they consent to this lobbying.

[branford]

30. The divide is legal and quite meaningful.

I certainly never claimed that the NRA is "benign," but you basically proved my point with your post.

The NRA is a old, large and complex organization. If you want to oppose their policies and counter their influence, it's best to acknowledge their strengths and weaknesses. Using strawman arguments or ignoring the truth is just intellectually lazy and plain ineffective.

For example, whether you like it or not, the NRA is indeed the gold standard in firearms safety and proficiency training, as well the largest sponsor of firearm sport and hunting activities. That is one of the primary reasons why they are politically influential, and more importantly, can get the 95+% of non-NRA gun owners and others in the USA to the polls in opposition to gun control.

If gun control advocates want to counter the NRA's ancillary ideological influence when it participates in these more benign areas, those opposing the NRA need to establish credible alternatives. If the only real position espoused is the elimination of guns, rather than actual firearm safety and training, this will be a practical impossibility, and the influence of the NRA will continue to spread and grow.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. That the divide is legal doesn't mean much.

Most nonprofits and not-for-profits segregate lobbying activities into legally separate entities for practical reasons. 501(c) organizations for example can lose their tax exempt status if they're engaged in political activities.

The NRA-ILA is the NRA. Period. As to the NRA being the gold standard for firearms training, there's nothing remarkable about that. What is remarkable is that the NRA-ILA promotes an irrational fear of crime (essentially race-baiting) and that it promotes unfettered arms ownership.

[branford]

33. Both the NRA and NRA-ILA have the absolute right to promote virtually whatever they want

for whatever reason they want. The simple fact is that an organization that only claims 5-6% of American gun owners as members manages to affect to firearm zeitgeist in this country so thoroughly that they've become the boogeyman of the gun control movement.

Regardless of your feelings on the matter, a great many Americans own guns and support gun rights, and if the NRA didn't exist, something else comparable (or worse) would take its place. I would also note that the two biggest gun control victories in recent memory, the Heller and McDonald Supreme Court decisions (and more lower court decisions), resulted from the actions of the Second Amendment Foundation, not the NRA.

How do you propose to counter the influence of the NRA and other gun rights groups? Do you believe disingenuous strawman arguments and childlike insults, like those expressed in the OP, are a viable strategy?

[GGJohn]

24. I'll take that as you have been pushing a lie for the past couple of days,

You have no idea of the NRA's position, so you make shit up and post it as fact.

[Hoyt]

8. When they get around to figuring out what to say -- as NRA did after Sandy Hook -- it will be fear,

more guns, and please don't blame our precious guns for the actions of gun fanciers.

Of course, the NRA does not allow visitors to bring gunz into the headquarters building because they know how many sick gun toters are out there (except for the posh shooting range with a separate entrance where people can practice shooting targets that resemble people).

[branford]

12. So, even you cannot find any statements by the NRA "feasting over the dead" in Oregon.

As I said, nothing but strawman arguments and allegations, attempts at mind reading, and claims of clairvoyance.

Let me also disabuse you of the myth that carry is not permitted at NRA meetings or in their headquarters. Although I'm neither a NRA member nor supporter of the organization, this claim has been repeatedly debunked. The only time that legal carry is sometimes not permitted at NRA functions is when a particular venue doesn't permit carrying of firearms, which at times occurs at their conventions or special events because they require such large and varied spaces, and the NRA always complies with local laws and regulations concerning firearms, even when they oppose them.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/21/1172739/-I-Called-the-NRA-Today-Oh-Boy
(check the update!)

[Hoyt]

14. Oh, there are plenty of vidoes of NRA's press conference after Sandy Hook. Then NRA Prez Keene,

standing there -- knowing his son, raised in the gun culture, was just released from prison after shooting a motorist in a road rage incident -- was laughable.

Sorry, don't have the transcript of them talking about armed guards, more gunz on campus, etc. But, I'm sure you have the video on your computer. Besides the written transcript is not nearly as revealing as those vile -- angry looking -- people pushing gunz after Sandy Hook? They'll be doing the same thing in a few days, and you know it.

[branford]

15. I'll try this yet again.

You're posting here to defend the OP and oppose my criticism.

All you need to do is simply provide just one actual citation to an official statement by the NRA that comes close to "feasting over the dead" in Oregon. Given the OP's and your opinions and beliefs about the organization, the task seemingly could be easier.

I also note that you appear to have abandoned your claim that the NRA doesn't allow visitors to carry firearms in their headquarters if otherwise permitted by law.

[Hoyt]

18. This is not a deposition, Counselor. You have to defend/apologize for gunz differently on a forum

like this.

[branford]

20. Yep, you got nothing. nt

[dumbcat]

25. So far you are 2-0

And still they keep throwing up strawmen.

[Duckhunter935]

60. Yep they tend to run away

When challenged over their outright lies.

[GGJohn]

27. Classic Hoytism

"One should keep their thoughts to themselves and let people think they are a fool rather than express them and prove the people right".
Words to live by.

[GGJohn]

26. And another classic Hoytism.

As you been informed numerous times before, it's not the NRA banning firearms from their conventions, it's the venue owners because of liability issues.
Where the venue owners have no issue with people carrying firearms, the NRA has welcomed them.
Now, go ahead with your usual deflection, snark, and insults instead of actually addressing my post.

[Bucky]

5. Maggots only feed off the dead; They don't afflict the victims' families

Nice try, but NRA is still lower than maggots

[whereisjustice]

10. I'm sorry for picking on good friends, the NRA - here's a way to lighten things up...

The NRA and his best friend the maggot walk into a bar.

The bartender turns to the maggot and says "You're ok, but you have to leave that piece of shit NRA outside."

When the NRA starts spewing some toxic bullshit about poll numbers saying guns keep people safe, the bartender calls the bouncer who throws the NRA out the door where he lands in the gutter, his fall cushioned by the million dollar talking points covering his ass.

When things settle down, the maggot high-fives the bartender and says, "Thanks, the place smells better already!"

I always chuckle at that one. Hope you do to.

[hatrack]

11. Maggots can be used to remove decaying tissue -iow, they can perform a valuable service

The same cannot be said of the NRA.

[GGJohn]

22. NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,

NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,

[malaise]

23. Big difference

maggots are part of the life cycle and the NRA is all about death

[whereisjustice]

28. The NRA is very proud to call themselves part of the maggot economy. But they're just parasites.

[GGJohn]

32. Hmmm, got a link to that?

Oh, wait, NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,

[whereisjustice]

34. yes - www.fuckyounraparasites.com, if that doesn't work try www.nrapondscum.com

[GGJohn]

35. Yep, just as I thought,

you've got nothing, but just for you.
NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,NRA,

[laundry_queen]

36. Really?

Maybe you need a break. Your posts on this thread are bordering hysterical.

[GGJohn]

37. Maybe those that have been slamming firearm owners here need a break,

it certainly wasn't us that started the politicizing of this tragedy.
But, no, I'm quite fine, I'm not hysterical, I'm actually having fun countering all your cohorts lies and innuendos.

[laundry_queen]

38. LOL I don't think so.

And maybe you are just too sensitive to come to DU after a shooting - you don't sound like you are having fun, you sound defensive and hysterical. You can say you are having fun, but your posts are there for everyone to see.

And firearm owners who support the NRA here on DU deserve slamming. You are supporting an organization that supports republicans. That used to not be allowed here.

[GGJohn]

40. LOL, I do think so, and my opinon is the only one that counts with me.

I don't support the NRA per se, I don't belong to their org., never have, never will, but they do have a right to advocate firearm rights and lobby the Congress for laws in favor of gun owners.

And firearm owners who support the NRA here on DU deserve slamming. You are supporting an organization that supports republicans. That used to not be allowed here.

Since when?

[laundry_queen]

44. It was well before you joined.

Supporting the NRA had someone automatically labeled. Often they were banned, back before juries. But, things have changed, clearly.

And what the NRA does is not harmless lobbying. They overwhelmingly actively support republicans.

And it's clear you only care about yourself and your own opinion. Or you wouldn't post what you do. I don't post for your benefit, but for all those other people that don't want to get into it because of the piling on that happens in these threads from the likes of the gungeoneers.

[GGJohn]

48. The NRA supports anyone who shares their view on the 2A,

unfortunately, it's usually the repukes, the NRA has and does support Dems who share their views on the 2A, unfortunately, our party has abrogated the issue of the 2A to the repukes, and we've lost election after election due to this.

Dems who constantly call for AWB's, mag limits, one gun per month, outright bans, etc. are the problem, not the NRA.

[laundry_queen]

52. No

People who think owning a piece of metal is a right because some old white guy 300 years ago said so are the problem. As a Canadian, the whole 'owning guns are a right' is truly a big joke amongst other Canadians. Everytime we see the response to a mass shooting, there is a collective country-wide eyeroll.

[GGJohn]

54. Oh, you're a Canadian?

Well, in that case, you have no say in our firearm laws, you have an opinion, but it's irrelevant to our country.

BTW, I served with members of your Armed Forces, I have the highest respect for the professionalism and dedication of your country's soldiers, sailors, airmen.

[laundry_queen]

59. I sure am.

But if you think I don't deserve a say in this you are sorely mistaken - your gun fetish causes tons of deaths in our country due to a large amount of smuggled guns. I have every right to fight against your antiquated constitution as it directly affects my country.

[GGJohn]

61. No, you don't have a say in our laws, you may think you do,

but in reality, you really don't.

[laundry_queen]

63. It's DU here, not Congress

I can have my say on the internets as much as I would like. As long as I stay within the rules here at DU of course. So if you don't want to hear what I have to say on the issue because you think it's irrelevent, then you can put me on ignore.

[GGJohn]

67. Of course you can opine on DU, I never said otherwise,

but you have no say in how we run our country except on chat boards.

[laundry_queen]

68. Which is where

I urge Americans to make the changes that they can. At any rate, it's not like you have much say either. About as much say as I had in Harper being prime minister.

[GGJohn]

74. I have a hell of lot more say than you do,

see, I can and do vote, and I vote regularly.
And if you think that the firearms laws in this country are going to change in favor of what you and your cohorts want, well, my advice is not to hold your breath waiting for that to happen..
That's not to say I don't support some new laws, things like UBC's, more stringent prosecution by the feds for violations of firearm laws, let's beef up the ATF to go after the straw purchaser's, let's end the WOD and use the money to better fund mental health services, That alone will greatly reduce the firearm deaths in this country.

What I won't support are feel good, do nothing laws, like AWB's, mag limits, limits on purchases of firearms by law abiding citizens, mandatory insurance, which would do nothing, registration, the govt has no right nor reason to know what I do or don't own, etc.

[laundry_queen]

76. And I don't hold that particular view

I guess I'm less libertarian than you are. And that's not surprising.

By the way, your last part cracks me up, because you don't want the government to know, but all the corporations already do, unless you always pay cash and never use a credit card or loyalty card. I'd rather the government knew over a corporation. At least the government is theoretically accountable to the voters. The corporations are only accountable to their rich shareholders.

[treestar]

77. Some valuable insight into

how other countries work when they have gun laws? Notice the Canadian government has not taken over as a dictatorship.

I am American and really dislike it when people talk to Canadians like this. Or any other country's citizens. They can have opinions on gun control. We all know they won't vote in US elections, so there is no point in saying that.

[GGJohn]

82. I don't care what other countries do with their gun laws, I have no say in it,

just as other countries citizens have no legislative say in our gun laws.

I have the highest respect for Canadians, I served alongside members of their Armed Forces numerous times, but I won't tolerate any citizen of another country telling me how we should change our firearm laws because they don't like them.

[Duckhunter935]

85. I notice Canada

Scrapped it's firearm registration program.

[laundry_queen]

113. Just the long guns, not hand guns. Still need a license to own any gun.

And the only reason it was abolished was the cost ended up being way more than was promised and the right wing conservatives cited the cost when they ended it. 2/3 of Canadians supported the registry when it was ended.

[Duckhunter935]

114. And it would cost much more here

[laundry_queen]

115. It wasn't a good reason to end it

And as I noted it was a right wing government that cited the 'cost' as the reason, while 2/3 supported it continuing. If there is another mass shooting (it was a mass shooting that ushered it in in the first place) you can bet it would be reintroduced if the conservatives aren't in power. The only reason they didn't like it anyway was the Liberals were the ones who introduced it. It wasn't really about the money. It was about pandering to their base.

[Duckhunter935]

116. What would have changed if

were in force for any of the mass murders involving guns?

[laundry_queen]

117. I'm not going to fall into the trap

of arguing over the types of guns used in each mass murder and if each type should or shouldn't be registered. Regsitration generally discourages people who will use it for nefarious purposes in the same way looking at someone in the eye and greeting them when they walk into your store leads to less theft. In liquor stores, ID'ing people when they walk in instead of just when they purchase leads to very low theft rates but if I ID someone, I can't know if I prevented THAT theft. I can't say if it would have prevented any specific mass murder. I can't say if the gun registry has already prevented many. It may have, but I cannot prove a negative. Generally, though, countries with strict gun control have less mass murders per capita.

[Duckhunter935]

118. that is where we differ I guess

Since a vast majority of weapons used in the mass murder events were fully legal, purchased from a federally licensed vendor, the shooter passed the required background checks prior to receiving the firearms. I can not see spending millions of dollars for a system the more than likely would have made no difference. I would rather spend that money on proven things like mental health, universal background checks, strengthening the current NICS and prison overhauls. Funds are limited and feel good laws are last in line for funding.

And it was no trap, you just do not want to admit it would not have changed a thing at all.

[laundry_queen]

119. But it does change things

you just won't admit it does change things because you can't point to a specific instance.

So you pretend it doesn't, though statistics state otherwise.

[Duckhunter935]

121. Which ones???????

[beevul]

70. Oh bullshit.

your gun fetish causes tons of deaths in our country due to a large amount of smuggled guns.

That would be the smugglers causing that, not our laws.

[laundry_queen]

71. It's the math

The sheer number of guns on your side of the border makes it easier for smugglers. Fewer guns means less smuggling.

[beevul]

72. That logic is just as wrong as you use it, as it is when drug warriors use it.

I take it you agree with the states suing CO over legalizing MJ there, for making it easy to smuggle into those other states?

[laundry_queen]

73. There is no comparison with drugs

You can post all the ROTFL smilies you want but drugs are not an equivalent analogy to guns. But you go ahead and use it, and everyone can read it and form their own opinion on the revelevence of your post.

[GGJohn]

75. There's no comparison with drugs?

Are you frickin serious? Ask the Mexican people if there's a comparison between drugs and firearm violence, how about the Columbian people during the time of Pablo Escobar?

Illegal drugs and guns go hand in hand are the source of many murders, in this country and other countries.

[treestar]

78. the drug violence is because of the guns

drugs only generally harm the people who take them and maybe some bystanders. Guns are a threat to other people.

[GGJohn]

84. Wrong,

the gun violence is because of illicit drugs and turf wars over drugs.
Guns aren't the threat, asshole with guns are the threat, a gun will do nothing without human interaction, all it is, is a lump of steel/carbon fiber, that could just lie there for years and years and not harm anyone.

[laundry_queen]

79. Headdesk

A little reading comprehension, GGJohn.

Drugs are not comparable in the way that making them illegal does not reduce use. Drugs are a mind altering substance. People will always seek out drugs to numb their own pain. Mind altering substances are as old as civilization.

People don't NEED guns. They are a relatively recent development in history. People won't have any physical effects if they give them up tomorrow. One cannot be addicted to guns. It's quite easy to give up the gunz. Drugs and alcohol though - not so much for those who are addicted.

And yes, guns are related to the war on drugs. Which is why I am for making all drugs legal and regulated. Less guns would be the result.

But the analogy that poster used had no bearing on my point on gun smuggling.

[GGJohn]

86. Ok, that's a fair point and I apologize for mis reading your post.

But your stating that people don't NEED guns is false, out where we live, firearms are necessity, for predator control, hunting for food, and I know this isn't a need, but target shooting is quite fun and relaxing to me after a hard days work on our farm.

[laundry_queen]

94. I meant there is no physical dependence

I get the whole farm thing - both my grandparents had guns on their farms for protection - although they hardly had to use them (they hunted, and sometimes had to scare a bear off). But handguns on farms are not necessary in the least. I think the Canadian laws are a great example of common sense gun laws. Heavy regulation of hand guns and less regulation with long guns. Banning of automatic weapons. Mandatory safety courses and licensing to buy a gun. People here still manage to have plenty of guns for their farms or for hunting, but we have a lot fewer mass shootings because it IS more difficult for those who want guns for nefarious purposes (especially those who 'snap') to get one.

[GGJohn]

96. It's my belief, and I admit I could be wrong because I don't live in your beautiful country,

that the reason you have much, much fewer mass shootings is because of a whole different culture.

[laundry_queen]

99. That is what a lot of people think and I'd like to say FU to Michael Moore on this

for propagating this belief in Bowling for Columbine. We don't all leave our doors unlocked either.

Our culture is different, but not really THAT different. All of your TV programs are ours too. We watch your news. Your movies. Play your video games. Keep current on your politics. Surf the same sites on the internets.

I do think there is a slight difference in that we are far less individualistic - because of our climate we've had to be. When someone gets stuck in the snow in a blizzard, you help them out because you could be next.

I do think our universal health care is a reflection of that cultural difference.

But overall, we really are not THAT different. Not in the scale of the difference in mass shootings, that's for sure.

[GGJohn]

100. Well, like I said, I could be wrong because I don't live in your country,

although I was a guest of your govt during my time in the service of our country.

[GGJohn]

98. Also, you're govt's approach on the issue of illicit drugs is much more sane

than ours, AFAIK, your country doesn't have a useless WOD that fuels a lot of our violence, plus you have single payer and a much better mental health care system, and, your country isn't in a constant state of war like ours.

[beevul]

87. I wasn't comparing drugs. I was comparing logic.

But you knew that.

[laundry_queen]

88. And I was saying it doesn't logically follow. nt

[beevul]

91. Oh it most certainly does.

You blame Americas gun laws rather than the people that actually smuggle guns into Canada, for some of canadas gun deaths.

Just like OK and NE blame drug problems in their states on CO legalizing MJ.



It is precisely the same thing.

You can say its different to your hearts content, but will forever fail in making it so.

[laundry_queen]

102. If you say so, especially if you underline it, then it must make it so.

I blame both though. Smugglers wouldn't smuggle if there was nothing to smuggle. It's not every day citizens using these smuggled guns. It's only the criminals. With drugs when they are smuggled, it's normal every day people who are now addicts who are the consumers. If there was no smuggling of drugs, then people make their own or move to another drug that is easier to get (prescription/alcohol). They cannot help it, they must have drugs. One cannot MAKE a gun (well that might change with those printers) and one cannot get it in Canada, therefore it must be smuggled.

I don't see your analogy as the same in the least. Are OK and NE drug deaths from MJ? If not, then it's not the same. At all. And did their MJ drug deaths go up? Somehow I doubt it. Did those MJ drug deaths come from MJ specifically smuggled from CO? If not, then it's just politicians blowing smoke. Is CO the huge country with 10 times the population bordering these poor tiny states? No? not the same.

[beevul]

108. Now youre trying to muddy the waters.

You blame Americas gun laws for some Canadian gun problems, just like NE and OK blame CO pot law for some of their own drug problems.

The specifics of the problems in question are quite beside the point, its the logic being used to conclude blame that is being discussed.

You are using the exact same logic as the anti-drug warriors use again and again and again.

Its not the same because I say so or underline it, its the same because its the same.

[Duckhunter935]

62. And another one from another country

Great that you are involved in our country's political issues. To bad you have no vote. But firearms owners in this country can and do vote in very high numbers.

[laundry_queen]

65. What's wrong with that?

I get this from time to time on DU that as a Canadian what i have to say is irrelevent. It always cracks me up - if I had the same opinion as you, you would be saying, "SEE? Even people from other countries feel the same way!" But because I'm not of the same opinion, it's, "You don't belong to this country you have no right to comment."

ETA Have you looked at your signature?

[Duckhunter935]

66. Nothing and you can say whatever you want

One of the great things about this country is we try not to limit speech. I just pointed out the fact that you have no way to actually vote and firearms owners that are citizens do and they tend to vote in very high numbers. Not a good tactic to alienate the many democrat or independent firearms owners. Quite counterproductive in my opinion.

[laundry_queen]

69. I agree it alienates them

which is why I understand why democrats run from gun control. So, we make it acceptable to talk about the 2A and gun control online. Soon, it trickles up. There will be a tipping point.

[Duckhunter935]

81. Yes, some have been saying that for 30-40

Years.

[treestar]

80. A lot of Americans don't want so many guns around

Totally irrelevant. I vote too.

[Duckhunter935]

83. Good for you, so do I

[GGJohn]

95. Yet the majority of Americans think firearm rights are more important than more restrictions.

And the vast majority of Americans, 75%-25%, are against a handgun ban.
I vote also.

[GGJohn]

41. What I sound like to you is irrelevant,

and has no bearing on this thread.

[laundry_queen]

47. It absolutely has bearing

And it may be irrelevant to you, but other people may not have the same opinion. Although I know that doesn't matter to you either.

[GGJohn]

49. Well, you're right about one thing,

others opinions don't sway me in the least.

[laundry_queen]

50. As I have said, you have made that very clear

And it explains a lot about your position as well.

[GGJohn]

51. IRL,

my position is the same position of millions upon millions of fellow American citizens.

[laundry_queen]

53. Because you are spoonfed the propaganda from the day you are born

It's not surprising some fall for it.

[GGJohn]

55. LOL.

I think for my own, as do millions upon millions American citizens.

[laundry_queen]

56. Just like people who think advertising 'doesn't work on them'

It does. It works very well.

[GGJohn]

57. Well, you believe what you want to believe,

but it's only conjecture on your part.

[laundry_queen]

64. It's a fact

Study upon study shows so. You are the one who 'believes'.

[beevul]

93. Are you special?

Or have you just been spoonfed different propaganda?

[laundry_queen]

97. Did you analyze American propaganda in high school?

Because we got to analyze Canadian propaganda. It was eye opening.

But I'm definitely not special. I had a slap chop.

If you can point out the anti-gun equivalent of the NRA, then I might agree with you.

[beevul]

101. Agree with me on what?

If you can point out the anti-gun equivalent of the NRA, then I might agree with you.

Agree with me on what?

If there were actual demand for an anti-gun equivalent on the same scale as there is demand for orgs to protect gun rights, I suppose there would be one. That kind of speaks for itself IMO.

Its not the fault of the nra that the 'million moms' shrank to 7 moms and a pizza.

I had a slap chop.

I'm almost afraid to ask what that means, or whether theres a toque involved.

[laundry_queen]

103. Slap chop

http://www.slap-chop.com/

Definitely not a Canadian invention, lol.

And it only seems like there is no demand because the NRA drowns out all opposing groups currently. And they have industry behind them because it makes them money. No money in anti-gun groups means no country-wide organization. Follow the money.

[beevul]

109. How does billionaire bloomberg fit into your paradigm? N/T

[laundry_queen]

111. Show me the numbers and I'll let you know. nt

[whereisjustice]

45. A roach, maggot, hook worm are having lunch and an NRA walks up to them and says "mind if I join"

The roach says Fuck You, piece of shit.

The hook worm says Fuck You, piece of shit.

The maggot says Fuck You, piece of shit.

The NRA gets excited and says:

I love shit! I am shit! But why just one piece?

I love those jokes. Humor it's the universal language even an NRA parasite can understand.

[rock]

39. Sure there is

Maggots not smell bad! (True fact, the rotting meat that they're found in may fool you but they have no detectable smell.)

[Recursion]

42. Maggots prevent gangrene

Even maggots thrive less on death than the NRA.

Even for people who believe in the 2nd amendment: I firmly believe there is no greater threat right now to the right to keep and bear arms than the NRA.

[whereisjustice]

46. Right wing NRA maggots killing more than any other hate group in USA, thats for sure.

[PatrickforO]

89. Here's what I think about the whole gun control controversy:

In science experiments, rats that are overcrowded and live in poor conditions tend to strike out viciously at each other. Rats that live in good conditions with plenty to eat and enough fresh water and some living space tend to live peacefully with each other.

If we look at the current inequality of wealth and income, the dramatic decline in the purchasing power of the middle class, people still victimized by insurance companies rationing their healthcare and big pharma soaking them for drugs that should be affordable, threats to Social Security, how college is increasingly out of reach for our children, the forever war, domestic spying, and the increasing number of environmental disasters, we see that Americans resemble these rats that are overcrowded and live in poor conditions.

I mean, think about it: most Americans have less than $10k in savings, are a paycheck away from actual hunger and are stressed out by low wages, maybe working more than one job, with no real economic security. Combine this with the current state of racist overreach by law enforcement, and you have some very unhappy 'rats.'

This unhappiness, this stress, is I believe the root cause of much of the gun violence. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for gun control, but if we remove these stressful conditions from the American people in general, it may do more than any gun control legislation to alleviate the increasingly serious problem of gun violence. It's happening every day now, pretty much, but many Americans, perhaps as many as 150 million, live in daily uncertainty and huge economic stress. A living hell.

So institute policies that alleviate this 'living hell' and maybe we will be more peaceful as a people. Funny, I think we have a candidate who is advocating these kinds of policies...

[workinclasszero]

90. Yes maggots have a purpose in life /nt

[whereisjustice]

92. Let me try to bring some clarity by relating a heart warming story about guns

A groups of worms, maggots and NRA are feasting on a corpse recently shot dead.

The maggot turns to the NRA and says - "hey, dude slow down, your hogging all the food, there won't be enough for everyone else".

Clearly hurt, the NRA then gets up and leaves.

Later on the NRA returns with an assault rifle and bullet proof vest and proceeds to shoot every one at the table.

The dying maggot asks the NRA, "why?"

The NRA looks at him and says, "because the second amendment," and finishes off the poor maggot with a final shot to the head.

The NRA then quietly goes back to finishing his dinner in the peace he so desperately wants to bring to the world.

The End

Hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. Perhaps it will all bring us a little bit closer together on the issues of right wing nut jobs, their guns, their sovereign nation, neo-confederate bullshit, and their impulse for violence as a means to solve every problem.

Until then, enjoy picking up the dead and burying them in your backyards because nowhere is safe with NRA around.

[deathrind]

107. 45th...

School shooting this year...and people still claim it is not a "gun problem"...by that logic there is no drug problem either.

[Orrex]

110. Well, a maggot infestation doesn't generally bring a horde of supporters to DU

So there's that.

[font color="white"]Bracing for the 'Hide.'[/font]

[stonecutter357]

112. K&R!