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JohnyCanuck

(9,922 posts)
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 10:40 AM Oct 2015

GMO Propaganda and the Sociology of Science

GMO Propaganda and the Sociology of Science

by Kristine Mattis

snip

Research has shown that upstream scientists – such as biotechnologists, agricultural technicians, or any scientists who create technologies – carry far less concern for potential risks than do downstream scientists – such as public health practitioners, epidemiologists, and environmental toxicologists. Where was the voice of the downstream scientist on the Daily Show? I’ve worked with biotechnologists personally who have expressed to me that they do not even consider risk or unintended consequences of GM technology. I also sat in a toxicology class where an upstream scientist said that he and his colleagues could never have imagined the rapid and prolific emergence of superweeds in response to Monsanto’s glyphosate-resistant GM crops (and the copious use of glyphosate). Meanwhile, environmentalists immediately and fully predicted the resultant herbicide-resistant superweeds that these agricultural experts did not.

Jon Stewart’s report on GMOs also noted the recent Pew poll that showed 88% of scientists – represented by members of American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) – believe that GMOs are safe. What neither Stewart nor Pew mentioned is how many of those scientists are well-versed on the issue of GM technology. Though they were launched into the American food supply in the early 1990s, most of the public and scientists alike, specifically scientists with expertise in entirely different fields, knew little to nothing about GMOs prior to 2008. It was that year that the documentary “Food Inc.” introduced Americans to what Europeans and others around the world already knew about GM technology. Indeed, the E.U and other nations had already banned GMOs under the precautionary principle policy, and most European nations now faced with Monsanto’s global market propagation are still choosing to ban the technology.

Perhaps 20% of the scientists in the Pew poll work directly or indirectly on GM technology – either upstream of downstream. But science, like every other industry, is a social structure. For career purposes and in order to maintain ties to the larger community, scientists tend to support other scientists – especially the scientists who have the money and prestige. The scientists with money and prestige are largely upstream scientists. Upstream scientists are not threatened, discredited, defamed, and scrutinized the way downstream scientists are. Downstream scientists have to produce immaculate, indisputably rigorous research – and even when they do they are questioned by the ubiquitous industrial PR machine. Downstream scientists are not a large part of the community.

snip

At the heart of this new rhetoric by Monsanto is the popularity of technology and the status of science in our society. However, science and technology are not equivalent. Science is the systematized study of knowledge, while technology merely applies that knowledge – for good or for ill. Science and technology are all too often conflated both by the public and by scientists themselves. It cannot be overstated that upstream technological scientists are prioritized and favored while downstream toxicologists and the like are continuously monitored and intimidated because they threaten industry. (See Drs. Tyrone Hayes, Ignatio Chapela, and Gilles-Éric Séralini for just a few well-know examples of attacks on downstream scientists.) While downstream science, which may point out frightening truths about risks, can be unpleasant, upstream science is often full of the wonder and excitement of technology. The conflation of science and technology has been exploited by the GMO industry to support the acceptance of their products under the guise of scientific authority.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/05/gmo-propaganda-and-the-sociology-of-science/
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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GMO Propaganda and the Sociology of Science (Original Post) JohnyCanuck Oct 2015 OP
Evidently the author is counting on nobody following up on her examples Major Nikon Oct 2015 #1
Meanwhile your heroes have their hands full defending themselves from RICO violations GreatGazoo Oct 2015 #2
Question... Major Nikon Oct 2015 #4
Seralini can speak for himself. JohnyCanuck Oct 2015 #3
Sure, Seralini's "study" isn't junk science, just ask Seralini Major Nikon Oct 2015 #11
Yup. Anyone, and I mean any-fucking-one, defending Seralini... SidDithers Oct 2015 #9
"Upstream" scientists? "Downstream" scientists? How about 88% of ALL scientists... LAGC Oct 2015 #5
Your logical fallacy is: Association Fallacy. GreatGazoo Oct 2015 #8
WTF are you talking about? Major Nikon Oct 2015 #18
Science for the win! GreatGazoo Oct 2015 #20
Try again with a cite that actually supports your assertion and you might have something Major Nikon Oct 2015 #24
Oh noes! Pesticides!!1! progressoid Oct 2015 #29
Seralini! NuclearDem Oct 2015 #6
Agricultural experts were aware of the risks of weed resistance to glyphosate from the start. yellowcanine Oct 2015 #7
The results speak for themselves Major Nikon Oct 2015 #25
Yes, the lack of resistance has been quite remarkable. yellowcanine Oct 2015 #27
Why isn't the anti-GMO side demanding "GMO Free" labels? jeff47 Oct 2015 #10
Exactly... SidDithers Oct 2015 #12
Well, they definately need to set up some sort of standards jeff47 Oct 2015 #13
But, but then they would have to include/exclude things like cheese, and they don't want that!!! HuckleB Oct 2015 #15
Oh good. Dr. Strange Oct 2015 #23
Those labels are already everywhere. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #14
Yup. That helps me to avoid spending money on companies that utilize unethical marketing. HuckleB Oct 2015 #16
I do occasionally have to buy ingredients with those labels NuclearDem Oct 2015 #17
Yeah, that is a definite problem. HuckleB Oct 2015 #19
An even better question is why the anti-GMO side isn't demanding "Mutation breeding" labels Major Nikon Oct 2015 #21
+1,000,000 ... 000 HuckleB Oct 2015 #22
And the beat goes on... CanSocDem Oct 2015 #26
bring out the clowns SoLeftIAmRight Oct 2015 #28
Facts are so stinky progressoid Oct 2015 #31
all we can make are tentative deductions SoLeftIAmRight Oct 2015 #32
No, we can make quite certain deductions. progressoid Oct 2015 #33
you seem to have a problem with your thinking SoLeftIAmRight Oct 2015 #34
the type of agricultural process fostered by GMO crops is not sustainable? progressoid Oct 2015 #35
I notice that you tend to the banal and avoid the essence while ignoring the complexity SoLeftIAmRight Oct 2015 #36
So which are you espousing? progressoid Oct 2015 #37
"all we can make are tentative deductions" SoLeftIAmRight Oct 2015 #38
"Perhaps 20% of the scientists in the Pew poll work directly or indirectly on GM technology" progressoid Oct 2015 #30

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
1. Evidently the author is counting on nobody following up on her examples
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 10:56 AM
Oct 2015

(See Drs. Tyrone Hayes, Ignatio Chapela, and Gilles-Éric Séralini for just a few well-know examples of attacks on downstream scientists.)

None of these so-called scientists have had their main conclusions verified independently despite several efforts to do so. Séralini is even on the payroll of the organic industry, yet never disclosed his conflict of interest.

I guess countering junk science with real science is considered harassment by some. Very telling that.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
2. Meanwhile your heroes have their hands full defending themselves from RICO violations
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:21 AM
Oct 2015
If farmers continued to balk at growing GMO corn, the suit says, “it would weaken Syngenta competitively, reversing its economic growth and momentum and potentially disabling it from recovering the approximately $200 million it had invested in Viptera’s development over a span of five to seven years.”

Therefore, the suit alleges, Syngenta “embarked on a plan to purposely undermine U.S. non-GMO corn growers and those resistant to growing Syngenta’s unapproved genetic corn traits.

“To that end, Defendants engaged in a scheme designed to inevitably taint and contaminate the U.S. Corn supply, effectively causing its economic vitality to be held hostage to MIR-162 trait GMO corn, knowing that the continuous marketing and sale of Syngenta’s MIR-162 trait corn seed would ultimately prejudice and disrupt the U.S. Corn export market and the U.S. Corn commodities market.”

Syngenta knew that it was “impossible” for farmers to keep Viptera corn separate from non-GMO corn, the suit says, and that the U.S. corn supply would inevitably become contaminated.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yg3q6hwCTNwJ:www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/103521/arkansas-farmers-say-syngenta-tainted-grain-supply-to-promote-gmo%3Fpage%3Dall+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Cargill and ADM have joined the lawsuits.

JohnyCanuck

(9,922 posts)
3. Seralini can speak for himself.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:31 AM
Oct 2015

Criticism: Séralini’s study was so badly designed that no conclusions can be drawn from it

Summary answer:
This criticism hinges on the incorrect assumption that Séralini’s study was intended to be a carcinogenicity study. The critics say that Séralini used too few rats of a strain prone to tumours, so the tumours seen may have occurred spontaneously and no conclusions can be drawn. But Séralini’s study was a chronic toxicity study, not a carcinogenicity study. The increase in tumour incidence was a surprise outcome. The logical response to the findings is not to dismiss them but to follow up with a full-scale carcinogenicity study on GM NK603 maize and Roundup.

Criticism: Séralini’s study does not conform to internationally accepted protocols

Summary answer:
No mandatory protocols exist for GM food safety testing. Industry is free to design its own tests, which are generally weak. Séralini designed a protocol to test the long-term health effects of a GMO and its associated pesticide. His protocol was the first to differentiate between the effects of the GMO and those of the pesticide.

Criticism: Séralini’s findings do not justify his conclusions

Summary answer:
This criticism centres on the incorrect assumption that Séralini’s study is a carcinogenicity study, and concludes that it is poorly designed for this purpose. But Séralini’s study was not a carcinogenicity study, but a chronic toxicity study. Thus Séralini avoided over-interpreting the increase in tumour incidence observed and did not claim that NK603 maize or Roundup are carcinogenic in humans. Further studies must be carried out before such conclusions can be drawn. What is concluded is that NK603 maize and Roundup had serious toxic effects on rats, including kidney and liver damage, increased mortality, and the increased and earlier development of tumours, especially in female rats.

More
http://www.gmoseralini.org/category/critics-answered/

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
11. Sure, Seralini's "study" isn't junk science, just ask Seralini
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:16 PM
Oct 2015

Meanwhile regardless of what they want to claim Seralini's study was about, days after it was released he was promoting it by showing blown up pictures of rat tumors. The site fails to mention the dubious nature of the published conclusions. Very telling that. So regardless of the objective of the study, Seralini himself was aggressively promoting the cancer results which he knew were complete shit.

Not surprisingly this crank site also fails to mention his toxicology data was also complete shit and not reproduceable. Nor does it mention Seralini's financial connections to the organic industry and homeoquackery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9ralini_affair

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Seralini#CRIIGEN

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
9. Yup. Anyone, and I mean any-fucking-one, defending Seralini...
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:09 PM
Oct 2015

can be immediately dismissed as a loon.

Sid

LAGC

(5,330 posts)
5. "Upstream" scientists? "Downstream" scientists? How about 88% of ALL scientists...
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:46 AM
Oct 2015

...who believe eating GM food is safe?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2015/01/29/the-public-and-science-disagree-on-gmos-climate-evolution-says-science/

Tired of reading this science-bashing bullshit on DU.

GMO fearmongers and anti-vaxx ignoramuses are just as bad as the climate change and evolution deniers.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
8. Your logical fallacy is: Association Fallacy.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:06 PM
Oct 2015

93% of the public trusts vaccinations, and 93% of the public wants GMO foods labeled. Science bashes logical fallacies.

Many people including scientists believe that the more pesticides you spray on food the more pesticide there is on the food. It is right there in the name: Roundup Ready

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
18. WTF are you talking about?
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:35 PM
Oct 2015

We're not talking about the "public", we are talking about people who are far more likely to understand the scientific method.

Many people including scientists believe that the more pesticides you spray on food the more pesticide there is on the food.


If they actually believe that, there's a pretty good chance they are woefully ignorant and have a simplistic view of a complex issue. For one thing, spraying crops during the developmental stage far before harvest kinda blows the hell right out of the ignorant assertion that more pesticide used = more pesticide on food. Some pesticides break down within hours or days. Some pesticides have a low toxicity to mammals, yet are very effective against the targeted pest. Some pesticides don't break down as readily and have higher toxicity to mammals. Not only that the EPA sets residual pesticide limits which are 100 times less what it would ever take to harm you and actual residual levels are generally far lower than the limit. Anyone who doesn't know such things or willfully chooses to ignore them would be a shitty reference for any sort of expertise on the subject and is more likely trying to piss on your shoes and tell you it's raining.

GreatGazoo

(3,937 posts)
20. Science for the win!
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:47 PM
Oct 2015
Do organically-grown foods contain fewer residues of toxic crop pesticides than conventionally-grown
foods do? The answer is an emphatic yes, according to a scientific study published
today in the peer-reviewed journal Food Additives and Contaminants.
The study
team included analysts from Consumers Union (CU), the Yonkers, NY-based publisher
of Consumer Reports magazine
...
The authors obtained
and analyzed test data on pesticide residues in organic and non-organic foods
from three independent sources: Tests done on selected foods by CU in 1997;
surveys of residues in a wide array of foods on the US market conducted by the
Pesticide Data Program of the US Department of Agriculture in 1994 through ’99;
and surveys of residues in foods sold in California, tested by the California
Department of Pesticide Regulation in 1989 through ’98. The combined residue
data sets covered more than 94,000 food samples from more than 20 different
crops; 1,291 of those samples were organically grown. "We’ve pulled together
the best available data on residues in organic produce to generate a clear picture
of the category as a whole," says co-author Karen Benbrook, who carried
out much of the data analysis for CU.

The USDA data showed
that 73 percent of conventionally grown foods had at least one pesticide residue,
while only 23 percent of organically grown samples of the same crops had any
residues. More than 90 percent of the USDA’s samples of conventionally-grown
apples, peaches, pears, strawberries and celery had residues, and conventionally-grown
crops were six times as likely as organic to contain multiple pesticide residues.
The California data (based on tests with less sensitive detection limits) found
residues in 31 percent of conventionally grown foods and only 6.5 percent of
organic samples, and found multiple residues nine times as often in conventional
samples. CU tests found residues in 79 percent of conventionally grown samples
and 27 percent of organically grown samples,
with multiple residues ten times as common in the former. The levels of residues
found in organic samples were also consistently lower than levels of the same
pesticides found in conventional samples, in all three sets of residue data.


http://consumersunion.org/news/cu-research-team-shows-organic-foods-really-do-have-less-pesticides/

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
24. Try again with a cite that actually supports your assertion and you might have something
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 01:11 PM
Oct 2015

Oh wait, even then you wouldn't have something...

Conclusions
Chronic dietary exposure to pesticides in the diet, according to results of the FDA’s 2004–2005 TDS, continue to be at levels far below those of health concern. Consumers should be encouraged to eat fruits, vegetables, and grains and should not fear the low levels of pesticide residues found in such foods.

http://www.foodcontaminationjournal.com/content/2/1/11

progressoid

(50,011 posts)
29. Oh noes! Pesticides!!1!
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 01:15 AM
Oct 2015
About 99.9 percent of the chemicals humans ingest are natural. The amounts of synthetic pesticide residues in plant food are insignificant compared to the amount of natural pesticides produced by plants themselves. Of all dietary pesticides that humans eat, 99.99 percent are natural: they are chemicals produced by plants to defend themselves against fungi, insects, and other animal predators.

We have estimated that on average Americans ingest roughly 5,000 to 10,000 different natural pesticides and their breakdown products. Americans eat about 1,500 mg of natural pesticides per person per day, which is about 10,000 times more than the 0.09 mg they consume of synthetic pesticide residues.

http://potency.berkeley.edu/pdfs/Paracelsus.pdf

yellowcanine

(35,703 posts)
7. Agricultural experts were aware of the risks of weed resistance to glyphosate from the start.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:01 PM
Oct 2015

This guy does not know what he is talking about. Herbicide resistance to weeds was recognized as early as the 1950s. While it is true that glyphosate was thought to have a mode of action not as conducive to development of resistance, the fact that it was possible to produce crops resistant to glyphosate made it obvious that resistance could develop in weeds. Weed scientists were aware of this from the beginning of the development of Round-up Ready soybeans. I also don't think the distinction between "upstream" and "downstream" scientists are as clear as he claims. Science, wherever it is in the stream, will prevail in the end. If risks of GMO are real, we will eventually find that out. If not real, that will eventually be apparent also. His arguments make sense only in the very beginning of the development of a new technology - look at x-rays, for example. People thought they were so safe that there were machines in shoe stores for sizing shoes. But after a few years the risks became apparent. And adjustments were made so that x-rays could still be used but safely. Same thing will happen with GMOs, if there is a significant risk.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
25. The results speak for themselves
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 01:25 PM
Oct 2015

Glyphosate has had a phenomenal record of insusceptibility to weed resistance which is exactly what was predicted from the very beginning. Nothing before or since has been better.

yellowcanine

(35,703 posts)
27. Yes, the lack of resistance has been quite remarkable.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 03:33 PM
Oct 2015

But it is not time to rest on laurels. There are some nasty glyphosate resistant weeds out there - notably Palmer Amaranth. http://www.extension.org/pages/65209/palmer-amaranth-amaranthus-palmeri#.VhLQTPlVhHw

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. Why isn't the anti-GMO side demanding "GMO Free" labels?
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:10 PM
Oct 2015

Right now, the effort is on forcing "contains GMOs" warning labels.

Why not push for a "GMO free" label? Wouldn't that be far easier to accomplish? Doesn't even need any regulatory approval to start. I'm sure the anti-GMO people could set up some criteria, like early in the "certified organic" days that eventually evolved into the USDA organic label. And a "GMO free" label would give the same information the anti-GMO people say they want.

Instead, we're left with a lengthy regulatory battle over a "contains GMOs" label. Leaving people who are actually concerned about GMOs only able to buy certified organic...which makes more profit per acre than non-GMO, non-organic...hmmmmm....

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
12. Exactly...
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:17 PM
Oct 2015

Wheatabix is already doing this. I've heard their radio ads, touting their product as GMO Free.

I'll see if i can find a picture when I'm not on mobile.

Sid

Dr. Strange

(25,929 posts)
23. Oh good.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:58 PM
Oct 2015

I'm so sick of finding DNA bits in my salt. Just give me a chemical-free salt, that's all I want.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
14. Those labels are already everywhere.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:23 PM
Oct 2015

"GMO Free", "NO GMO", "Never GMO".

It's just more evidence that this has nothing to do with consumer advocacy and everything to do with destroying the organic industry's competition.

HuckleB

(35,773 posts)
16. Yup. That helps me to avoid spending money on companies that utilize unethical marketing.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:25 PM
Oct 2015

Any company that works to foment fear of safe foods like GMOs in order to pump up its sales does not get my business. There's just no justification for that.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
17. I do occasionally have to buy ingredients with those labels
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:29 PM
Oct 2015

but that's just the necessity of being vegan. Those companies, unfortunately, are the only ones that make the substitute ingredients I use in cooking.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
21. An even better question is why the anti-GMO side isn't demanding "Mutation breeding" labels
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 12:50 PM
Oct 2015

Some products produced by mutation breeding are labeled as organic because they meet the NOP standards. Anyone who lays awake at night worrying about GMO would be freaked right the fuck out if they knew some of their organic produce was made by flooding seeds with ionizing radiation in order to produce random genetic mutations. Nothing more "natural" than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding

The important thing to remember is the National Organic Program is nothing more than a marketing gimmick comprised of completely arbitrary standards that don't guarantee any improvement in nutrition, safety, or sustainability.

 

CanSocDem

(3,286 posts)
26. And the beat goes on...
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 01:33 PM
Oct 2015
"It cannot be overstated that upstream technological scientists are prioritized and favored while downstream toxicologists and the like are continuously monitored and intimidated because they threaten industry."


Thanks for the article Johny Canuck!



.

progressoid

(50,011 posts)
33. No, we can make quite certain deductions.
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 01:24 PM
Oct 2015

I'm certain that gravity will continue to pull me back to Earth. And I am certain the Earth will rotate and the Sun will rise in the east. Your relationship with reality notwithstanding.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
34. you seem to have a problem with your thinking
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 02:43 PM
Oct 2015

First - how is gravity propagated?
clueless

At what rate are you pulled back to earth - at best you can give a very rough estimate

the sun will rise in the east - so we should eat GMO's - are you one of the clowns?

when it comes to the long term use of GMO's you are clueless - the type of agricultural process fostered by GMO crops is not sustainable -

you might also want to consider the epigenetic effects

progressoid

(50,011 posts)
35. the type of agricultural process fostered by GMO crops is not sustainable?
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 03:10 PM
Oct 2015

Earlier you said, "all we can make are tentative deductions". But now you are making a very UN-tentative deduction.
You make this statement based on what evidence?



Also,

At what rate are you pulled back to earth?

F = Gm1m2/R2



the sun will rise in the east - so we should eat GMO's?
I never made such a connection. I simply stated that we can make certain deductions.




 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
36. I notice that you tend to the banal and avoid the essence while ignoring the complexity
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 05:31 PM
Oct 2015

you give an equation for the acceleration due to gravity and without shame ignore the constraints

and there is the rub

I made no deduction - I stated a belief

You should learn the difference

Thinking - knowing - believing - all very different

You seem to have beliefs about GMO's - I think you are wrong

progressoid

(50,011 posts)
37. So which are you espousing?
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 05:45 PM
Oct 2015

"all we can make are tentative deductions"

Is that Thinking? knowing? believing?

"agricultural process fostered by GMO crops is not sustainable"

Is that Thinking? knowing? believing?

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
38. "all we can make are tentative deductions"
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 06:33 PM
Oct 2015

this is what Einstein said

I agree with him and I would loved to had seen his face when you replied "the sun comes up"

bring in the clowns

I made it clear above that I BELIEVE that the "agricultural process fostered by GMO crops is not sustainable"

It is my belief - I have thought about it - I do not know it



progressoid

(50,011 posts)
30. "Perhaps 20% of the scientists in the Pew poll work directly or indirectly on GM technology"
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 01:55 AM
Oct 2015
perhaps because she perhaps is pulling that statistic out of her ass?


"The 11% of scientists who do not agree that GMOs are safe are likely the downstream scientists..."

Seems she is likely taking a wild-assed guess how many are downstream scientists.


"It may be that ~ 10% of scientists who think GMOs are safe actually cultivate the technology. It may be that the other 78% who agree about GMO safety may or may not have a great deal of knowledge about GMOs..."
Heck, it may be that she has absolutely no idea wtf she's talking about.



"That year the genetically engineered “StarLink” corn – not approved for human consumption – was recalled after it was found in corn products and may have resulted in scores of adverse human health effects."



Ah, yes. She doesn't know what she's talking about. For instance, Starlink corn did NOT result in scores of adverse health effects.
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehhe/Cry9cReport/recommendations.htm
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