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Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:33 AM

 

Help me out understand this, DU! Why are we still allies with Saudi Arabia??

Considering their horible laws and persecution of minorities and of most basic human rights, why are they our allies?

Oil? Is that all it takes for us to consider such a country an ally?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I can't figure it out for the life of me.

71 replies, 5564 views

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Reply Help me out understand this, DU! Why are we still allies with Saudi Arabia?? (Original post)
darkangel218 Nov 2015 OP
smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #1
tammywammy Nov 2015 #63
inanna Nov 2015 #2
951-Riverside Nov 2015 #3
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #4
Yorktown Nov 2015 #7
trillion Nov 2015 #34
trillion Nov 2015 #37
Behind the Aegis Nov 2015 #39
Shankapotomus Nov 2015 #40
951-Riverside Nov 2015 #54
Steven the Somnolent Nov 2015 #5
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #9
Steven the Somnolent Nov 2015 #12
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #13
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #11
newthinking Nov 2015 #6
RiverLover Nov 2015 #41
OnyxCollie Nov 2015 #8
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #10
MFrohike Nov 2015 #14
6000eliot Nov 2015 #15
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #16
merrily Nov 2015 #47
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2015 #17
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #18
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2015 #19
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #20
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2015 #21
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #22
treestar Nov 2015 #30
NuttyFluffers Nov 2015 #43
Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #23
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #24
A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #27
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #28
A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #29
treestar Nov 2015 #31
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #32
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #36
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #38
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #59
Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #50
tazkcmo Nov 2015 #56
JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2015 #52
Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #58
JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2015 #64
PowerToThePeople Nov 2015 #66
CJCRANE Nov 2015 #25
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #26
CJCRANE Nov 2015 #45
Smarmie Doofus Nov 2015 #57
trillion Nov 2015 #33
darkangel218 Nov 2015 #35
polly7 Nov 2015 #55
hifiguy Nov 2015 #69
darkangel218 Dec 2015 #71
Ichingcarpenter Nov 2015 #42
Locrian Nov 2015 #44
CJCRANE Nov 2015 #48
Locrian Nov 2015 #49
BelgianMadCow Nov 2015 #46
cantbeserious Nov 2015 #51
hobbit709 Nov 2015 #53
KamaAina Nov 2015 #60
LineReply $
Glassunion Nov 2015 #61
Act_of_Reparation Nov 2015 #62
PowerToThePeople Nov 2015 #65
Xolodno Nov 2015 #67
hifiguy Nov 2015 #68
darkangel218 Dec 2015 #70

Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:38 AM

1. We get less than 20% of our oil from them, it could be less.

Why indeed?

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:23 PM

63. 13% in 2014. n/t

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:39 AM

2. Yeah. I'd say it's the OIL. n/t

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:48 AM

3. Do you know that Iran provides transgender surgery almost free of charge?

 

but they're considered our enemies.

Although it has some of the strictest laws on sexuality and same-sex relations in the world, Iran also has a reputation for an extremely liberal sex-change operations industry.

According to the BBC, the Iranian regime recently made sexual reassignment even more accessible by announcing that health insurance companies must cover the full cost of sex-change operations, which can cost upward of $3,000.

Iran performs more sex-change operations than any country in the world except for Thailand; the surgery industry has attracted patients from all over the Middle East and as far away as Eastern Europe. Official statistics for 2007 put the number of transsexuals in Iran between 15,000 and 20,000 people, with unofficial estimates suggesting many more -- up to 150,000, the Guardian reports.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/iran-sex-change-operation_n_1568604.html


OTOH in Saudi Arabia the only thing you're getting chopped off free of charge is your head if you come out.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:50 AM

4. I wasn't aware of that, wow!!

 

So what's the reason SA are still allies? Is it the oil or something else?

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:02 AM

7. Well, Iran hangs gays..

 

KSA, head chopped off, Iran, hanged, not much of a choice..



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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:26 AM

34. They still don't get a pass from me. Maybe it's the 16 yo girls they hang on the public boulevards

 

for unbecomming behavior that turned me off to them. I'm happy I've finally forgotten one of the girls that made the western news' name.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:30 AM

37. Okay, it looks like they do, but being gay comes with possible execution

 

so they allow people to get the surgery. Basically, if a gay man wants to keep his genitals, he's likely to get executed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran

"Any type of sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage is forbidden. Transsexuality in Iran is legal if accompanied by a sex change operation,"

"Sodomy (lavat) can in certain circumstances be a crime for which both partners can be punished by death. "

"The punishment for lesbianism (mosahegheh) involving persons who are mature, of sound mind, and consenting, is 50 lashes. If the act is repeated three times and punishment is enforced each time, the death sentence will apply on the fourth occasion."

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:50 AM

39. Transgender and homosexuality are not interchangeable.

While Iran's policy in regards to transgender issues revolving around sex reassignment is admirable, it's policy on homosexuality is

Illegal
Penalty: For men 74 lashes for immature men and death penalty for mature men of sound mind and is consenting. For women 50 lashes for women of mature sound mind and is consenting. Death penalty offense after fourth conviction.[38]


It doesn't vary too much from Saudi Arabia:
Illegal
Penalty: Prison sentences of several months to life, fines and/or whipping/flogging, castration, torture or death can be sentenced on first conviction. A second conviction merits execution.[38]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Asia

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:52 AM

40. I believe it is forced transgender surgery if you are gay

It's either the surgery or execution.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:31 AM

54. Looks like the HuffPost writer has a long history of putting out Pro-Iranian propaganda...

 

Such as this: http://mic.com/articles/89913/the-media-claims-iranian-actress-leila-hatami-is-about-to-be-flogged-but-here-s-the-real-story where she repeatedly bashes "Western Media" for reporting on the fact that an Iranian actress was threatened with punishment for kissing a man on the cheek at the Cannes Film Festival.

She ended the article by saying this:

Hatami has already paid her penance. She apologized, and thereby righted the tainted image of the regime. And that's what this entire scandal was about.


and this

http://mic.com/articles/78597/why-every-american-should-take-their-next-vacation-in-iran

and this

http://mic.com/articles/74599/what-the-media-is-getting-wrong-about-the-iranian-rockers-murdered-in-brooklyn

The Guardian's Paul Farrell, in an article titled, "The Yellow Dogs: the Dissident Rockers Who Made History in Tehran," described a band of rock n' roll deviants who made music against all odds. "They survived Iran," he wrote.

The media framed this story as the tragic loss of aspiring Iranian rockers who escaped oppression and persecution in an effort to pursue their dreams in a free society.

But there were two serious flaws with this narrative. Firstly, the notion that Iran is a tyrannical regime, that the only way to live in Iran is to survive it, as Farrell suggests, is blatantly false. Though there are rules in place that deny artists full freedom of expression, there is also a strong network of support for artists in Iran galleries and private spaces that back artists and musicians while circumnavigating the rules of the regime. And in fact, there are thousands of musicians in Iran, not just performing underground, but also in public, and the art scene is not only present, but thriving.


The individual using the pen name or nom de plume of "Sasha von Oldershausen" is clearly putting out Iranian propaganda in various American publications such as PolicyMic, The Huffington Post, The New York Times and New York Magazine. Since 2012 shes rotated though so many well known publications spreading pro-regime propaganda.



Mrs "Oldershausen" who is of Iranian descent, attended the University of Tehran a year before she began her mission of writing articles that put the tyrannical regime in a positive light.

No where in any of her articles that I've seen will you find any mention of Iran's ill-treatment for religious minorities, gays, etc.

I apologize for posting an article that was authored by what appears to be a mouth piece for the Iranian regime, I am clearly ignorant on the issue of how the LGBT community are treated in that region, I only posted out that article because it gave the appearance that Iran was the only nation that was mildly progressive.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:00 AM

5. Why are we still allies with Israel?

 

They got yer "persecution of minorities and of most basic human rights" right there!

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Response to Steven the Somnolent (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:02 AM

9. I don't think we can compare SA with Israel.

 

How did you even draw the conclusion that the two can be compared? I don't agree with many of Israel's decisions and actions, but you can't compare them with SA.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:06 AM

12. Talk to a Palestinian

 

S/he won't compare Israel to Saudi Arabia. There's another country.

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Response to Steven the Somnolent (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:06 AM

13. Gotcha.

 

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Response to Steven the Somnolent (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:05 AM

11. Also, care to elaborate on that?

 

I might not know what's going on in Israel. Care to elaborate? (Aside from the Palestine conflict, what else us happening? We can't talk Israel Palestine conflict in GD)

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:01 AM

6. We just made the largest wepons sale in history to Saudi Arabia.

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Response to newthinking (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:02 AM

41. +1

nt

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:02 AM

8. We sell them lots of weapons.

 

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Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:03 AM

10. AHA! Thank you.

 

That would explain it.

$$$$$$$$$$ from weapon sales.

I didn't know.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 01:53 AM

14. Because our elites are idiots

They prefer the "stability" of a regime that's directly and indirectly supported most of the Islamist terror in the world to trying something that might actually work. They might get called nasty names for trying something new, rather than failing in the tried and true way.*

*Obama's the one partial exception. He's willing to push the boundaries of what's possible. Whether it will prove to be enough will require time.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:01 AM

15. A more important question is why are we fighting their war for them?

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Response to 6000eliot (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:05 AM

16. That too.

 

Why are we allies and protecting them so much? Why aren't we demanding them to step up and take lead in the war against DAESH?
Other posters above said we sold them weapons.

Could it be that just money is involved in our alliance?

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:16 AM

47. "Follow the money." Best, briefest political advice ever given.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:08 AM

17. having spent more than 20 years there - I will say this - As bad as the royal family is - and they

are bad - You ought to see the people who would replace them if they lost power.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:14 AM

18. I disagree with you. How much worse can it get??

 

They behead people for merely speaking their mind. They have 0 tolerance for minorities. Its a sick society.

We shouldn't consider them allies.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:29 AM

19. most likely the matawa - the "religious police" would be the only cohesive group who could take

power - or else it might break into extremely horrific tribal war.

I didn't think it was possible that the situation in Iraq could could possible get worse than Saddam Hussein - but it did.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:32 AM

20. We still shouldn't consider them "allies".

 

Only because a worse regime could take over.

Thats messed up.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:42 AM

21. allies is probably not the best word - machiavellian symbiotic relationship is more the situation

Having dominant influence over the flow of oil through the Arabian Gulf has been a U.S. strategic objective since FDR

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 02:43 AM

22. Well, thats just sick. IMHO.

 

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:44 AM

30. True, same with Saddam

and Egypt. We are likely propping up the least horrible government they can get in those countries.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:53 AM

43. having lived there myself i agree 100%

they're our "allies!" (because the alternative is worse.

and when talking about geopolitical diplomacy, there's always a 'worse'.)

remember this kiddies, the saudi gov't is seen as too liberal and corrupted by the west. that means the alternative active power structure/s within the populace is being placed in check. you might find a similar situation in our own backyard, if you're paying attention.

"apres moi, c'est deluge."

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:36 AM

23. Two obvious reasons:


1) It's in the US's economic interest.

2) They're a force for stability in the ME. Exceptionally brutal, repressive stability, but still stability. It's precisely the same argument that is often raised to explain why removing Saddam was a bad idea.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:38 AM

24. I don't understand the second reason.

 

What stability?? Weren't some of the 911 terrorists from SA???

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:26 AM

27. Imagine what the Arabian peninsula would be like

If the ruling family was removed in what is seen as the birthplace of Islam. Just how stable do you think it would be if the various sects and denominations of Islam were essentially cut loose to fight it
out for control of Mecca?

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:29 AM

28. It's not stable as we speak

 

Since some of the 911 terrorists were from there.

They're a terrorist breading ground.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:43 AM

29. It's a hell of a lot more stable now than it would be with a power vacuum. n/t

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:44 AM

31. the 911 terrorists being from there

does not mean it is not stable - that's a different issue.

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Response to treestar (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:57 AM

32. Really?

 

How do you explain the beheadings?? "Different issues" as well ??


Yikes.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #32)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:28 AM

36. Real quick. What's your operating definition of "stability"?

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #36)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:30 AM

38. There is no stability with barbarians.

 

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:18 PM

59. Right, so you're just throwing words around

 

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Response to treestar (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:59 AM

50. Daesh has carved out a nation sized territory made up of parts of actual nations. Not stable.

 

If it was stable there would be no Daesh. And you might notice that there is.

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:02 AM

56. Look at Syria.

That's what will result when the House of Saud burns down.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:08 AM

52. A force for stability?

So is Assad.

So was Saddam Hussein.

So was Muammar Qaddafi.

I don't think "stability" is one of our goals.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:09 PM

58. Yes, as I pointed out.

Is it your view that removing Saddam Hussein was a good idea?

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:04 PM

64. No, I think GHWB made the initial error

He ran desert shield and desert storm because of Iraq invading Kuwait.

But his ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, had indicated that we had no interest in the relations between Iraq and Kuwait, clearing the way for Hussein's invasion.

We should not have been in that area, should not have invaded.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:14 PM

66. Sadam disproves your number two reason

 

We are left with, it is in the financial inerests of tptb.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:03 AM

25. Opposites attract. We're Yin, they're Yang.

Everything we stand for - they're against.

They create the extremists - we fight them.

Everybody wins.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:04 AM

26. Lol.

 

Sarcasm tag missing

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:09 AM

45. They complete us.

Without all the endless wars, terrorism and mass surveillance we'd probably just waste our money on frivolous things like education, infrastructure, supporting veterans, adequate mental healthcare etc.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #45)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 09:36 AM

57. They had us at "Hello".

 

Or is it "Marhabben"?

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:24 AM

33. Money. and yes, they are about to behead, crucify, and hang upside down, teenagers who protested

 

for equal rights. I believe there are over 180 people that they are going to behead and hang upside down on a cross for 3 days, that were arrested at the equal rights protest. And, yes, this is what they were actually sentenced to and it's going to happen any day now. Barf.

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Response to trillion (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 05:27 AM

35. Sickening :'(

 

..

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Response to trillion (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:52 AM

55. My cousin is an RN who worked in SA for awhile, years ago.

She and her coworkers were cordially 'invited' to the beheadings and amputations. They were actually proud to have these Canadian foreigners witness their brand of justice. She still labels it the worst country she's ever worked in .... and she's been, literally, all around the world.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #55)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:34 PM

69. Worst country on earth. Worst culture on earth.

 

The undisputed anus mundi.

Given the choice of exile to KSA or North Korea, I'd choose NK in a heartbeat, Kim Jong Cartman and all. At least there I could get knee-walking drunk on soju and try to forget I was in North Korea

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 6, 2015, 02:53 AM

71. Malik lived most of her life in SA apparently.

 

Enough said.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 06:19 AM

42. Because of Wall Street and 911

Listen I'm not that far off if you think about it.







and the Bush Crime Family

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:02 AM

44. oil = dollars

Saudi's keep the oil on the us dollar which allows the us to basically 'print' oil. If the standard ever changed from the $ - the US economy would collapse.

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Response to Locrian (Reply #44)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:30 AM

48. America has enough people, land and resources to thrive

and go it alone without suppressing its own citizens, using up its fighting men and women and laying waste to other parts of the world.

There is another agenda at work, one which puts other interests ahead of Americans.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #48)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:35 AM

49. sure it does

but that's not as easy and profitable for the people in charge.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 07:09 AM

46. That question has gone mainstream in Belgium

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/buitenland/1.2499670
Link in dutch, Makes the point Saudi-Arabia sponsors the radical form of sunni islam using petrodollars. Question "don't we need a clean oil campagn?"

An open letter to Hollande about the use of Bush rhetoric went viral as well.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:01 AM

51. Oil - Oil - Oil

eom

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 08:08 AM

53. Follow the money

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:34 PM

60. Simple.

 



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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:35 PM

61. $

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 12:39 PM

62. Because Saudi Arabia competes with Iran for political dominance in the Middle East

And, unlike Iran, we have influence in Saudi Arabia.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:08 PM

65. "Money trumps peace"

 

eom

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 03:20 PM

67. By default.

Iran gave the US the boot and wants nothing to do with the US. The other major regional player in the area was the house of Saud...and the US want's a footprint in the area, so they deal with the devil that's willing to play ball.

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Mon Nov 23, 2015, 04:30 PM

68. They are splended customers of the Merchants of Death.

 

And they have oil.

So we are "allies" with the worst country/worst culture on earth.

The O'Jays got this:

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Response to darkangel218 (Original post)

Sun Dec 6, 2015, 02:15 AM

70. So it turns out that one of the shooters spent most of her life in SA

 

Again, why are we still Allies with a terrorist breeding ground country??

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