How does a couple with a 7 month old baby daughter decide

[milestogo]

that they never want to see her again? They had to know they were committing suicide.

Human nature never ceases to amaze.

[Photographer]

1. I've been asking myself the same question all day.

[ileus]

2. I want to know, he's getting 72 Virgins, What was she getting?

What is promised to her, that made her say "Let's do this!"

Wonder if she ever pondered that? He's gets 72 new virgins, she gets dumped???

[Cleita]

8. Maybe he ordered her to obey him.

The imam at the mosque he attended said he didn't know what she looked like because she was fully veiled when he met her. It would point to her being very traditional.

[B2G]

49. From everything I'm reading, SHE radicalized HIM. nt

[Cleita]

70. They are making assumptions. There is no evidence right now as to whom radicalized whom.

I'm always skeptical of "Eve" theories of the fall of a man. I came from a family where my father dictated everything he wanted my mother to do and she did obey him even when she didn't want to. Fortunately, my dad didn't ask her to do any harmful or criminal deeds. It was more along the lines of what she should wear, whom she had as lady friends and what we ate at the table. If he had asked her to learn to shoot a gun. she probably would have done it even though she didn't want to. I don't know if her obedient wife schtick would have gone as far as killing though should he have ordered it.

[B2G]

73. Any you are making assumptions based on your upbringing.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-france-terror-women-20150125-story.html

[Cleita]

75. No. I am putting out a theory and I could be wrong that maybe she's not at fault.

Women have been blamed for the fall of men since the beginning of history. Eve brought about the fall of Adam. Helen brought about the fall of Troy. Cleopatra ruined Mark Antony. Need I go on? It could be she was Bonnie to his Clyde but until we know, we need to look at her as possibly being a victim as well.

[Yavin4]

91. Sorry, in no way is she a "victim".

I'm not buying that argument for a second. Neither of them are victims in any sense of the word.

[Cleita]

98. You have your opinion. Until more information comes out, I have mine. eom

[renate]

87. reading your post makes me so sad....

That must have been so horrible for your mother and horrible for you to see it happen. It sounds like a deeply uncomfortable environment to grow up in. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, of course, but if I'm not, you have my sincere sympathy.

[flamingdem]

12. Hah, true dilemma, but I suspect she was "turned" and for that reason

she was in Saudi Arabia. Fanaticism we can't hope to understand.

[Marrah_G]

18. LOL I'm going to assume their version of heaven doesn't give equality

Maybe she gets to take care of the virgins? Do their laundry, cook for them?

[Yavin4]

48. Why do you assume that it was the husband that convinced the wife?

It's just as likely, maybe even more likely, that the wife convinced the husband in this case.

[B2G]

50. This. nt

[Cleita]

71. That nasty Eve again raising her fruit eating devilish head bring about the fall of a man. eom

[Yavin4]

89. Women are immune from being evil?

And, it's always the man's fault if she goes wrong? Look at the facts in this case. It's just as likely that she radicalized him.

[Cleita]

90. Read my post #75 on this thread. eom

[ileus]

72. No what I asked is if Allah promised 72 Virgins to Him, what is she promised

in the afterlife???

[librarylu]

88. It's a mistranslation.

He may get splendid companions of equal age. No idea what she would get. Some grapes, maybe?

"There is no promise of 72 virgins for martyrs, terrorists or suicide bombers anywhere in the Quran."

http://www.justislam.co.uk/product.php?products_id=216

[ileus]

95. Do they know this???

[Waldorf]

3. Called radicalization. Going out as martyrs seemed to be the most important thing in their

life.

[Chan790]

4. That's the crazy part.

Everything about their actions suggests that they expected to get away with it. They could have fled far away...they were off-site when the police arrived and had an hour headstart to anywhere in America. They went home. Their conduct suggests that they thought they were going to, and in-fact had, gotten away with it without being identified; that they would be able to return to their normal lives and perhaps even repeat the crime again later in time.

[JI7]

5. they hated others more than they loved her. they would probably killed her

If she was older and did something they thought brought "dishonor".

[smirkymonkey]

13. That is what I don't get about radical muslims. It seems like it would be human

nature to love your children more than life itself. But they seem to love their hate more than their children. I will never understand that.

[Ilsa]

27. "...seem to love their hate more..."

Nailed it, IMO.

[snooper2]

54. they love and obey their mythical sky creatures more than real life

that is what happens when you literally follow your holy book

[blm]

56. Same with most religious extremists - family, too often, falls to the wayside.

Their belief in apocalyptic world views looms larger in their thoughts and takes over their lives.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Fixation.

I've been answering this question all day. How did my husband leave his family with young children? He wasn't thinking about us. That's how.

[Politicalboi]

7. They may have saved her life

With all the guns and ammo about their house, something bad is more of a possibility for that baby had they lived and raised her.

[BeyondGeography]

9. That's against nature

They were out of their minds.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Easy. Someone at his place of employment pissed him off...

and he talked his wife into giving up her life in defense of his honor.

Workplace violence happens that way all the time. Piss someone off; they go home, pick up the spouse and the baby, drop the baby off with a lie about where they're going, and shoot a bunch of people dead. Since workplace violence seems to be part of the narrative, that seems to be the only explanation.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

37. Workplace violence would explain a momentary

lapse in judgment by one person, but the perps were planning attack(s) for some time.

They had to have known that committing terrorist acts would leave their child without parents.

[FrodosPet]

40. It's NOT terrorism

It is a workplace shooting. Islam had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

41. You're joking, right?

How do you explain all the pipe bombs back in their home?

Just a hobby?

And workplace violence because a co-worker accused Islam of being a violent religion?

So, he goes out and commits violence?

[FrodosPet]

42. Alas, yes I am

Damn this whole thing is so frustrating.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

44. Whew.

You had me, there.



My son is rooming with a secularized Muslim young man at university. He's a cultural Muslim the way much of my family is cultural Catholic.

And, yeah, I worry about both of them on campus, but I don't think that underplaying the role of radical Islam helps. It just makes people angrier when they believe they've been lied to.

This is why the right is gaining power in Europe, imo. The powers that be (generally left) have been ignoring or minimizing real problems with radical Islam among their Muslim citizens, and the rest of the populace is sick of it.

Everyone is going to pay when the right gains power, I'm afraid.

[theboss]

63. There is no way this is your standard workplace violence

And how insane is it that there is such a thing as "standard workplace violence?"

Has there ever been a situation of workplace violence where there was an accomplice not associated with the employer?

[Person 2713]

11. They had a specialist on who wrote a book on women who choose to do suicide bombs etc.

Once they have a child they feel they are ready to take on the mission . They have completed their work on earth. They have produced a child who will be cared for after they make the holy sacrifice
Their child will know their mother was doing Gods work when she died. What better way than sacrifice to try to make sure your child grows up in a holy world you help create by being a martyr

I guess like a soldier maybe killed in battle , his surviving children will remember him as a hero.

IMO post partum depression could be a factor but most likely they are caught up in the religious fervor and want a chance to do their part in fighting the most holy war

[CanonRay]

61. So, assuming the child's grandmother will raise her

do you think she will raise the child as a strict Muslim? I think if it were me, I'd keep that child as far away from organized religion (of any stripe) that I could. It is what made her an orphan. I will never understand this incident or the perpetrators.

[Person 2713]

109. Depends on the guardians beliefs I suppose

[hifiguy]

66. That is a textbook definition of

Complete damned insanity.

Religion is beyond question humanity's WORST invention.

[Person 2713]

107. How about those parents with their church group who beat their child to death because

the teen wanted to leave the church . At least these religious nuts left their kid safe before they went out in a blaze of bullets but yes even with the analyst explanation of female suicide archetypes it still comes down to complete insanity

[hifiguy]

108. Them too, no doubt about it.

Religion is poison. Period.

[cwydro]

14. No way to understand this.

I find it horribly sad for that child.

[underahedgerow]

15. Fanatical religious dementia? When they come to believe thier imaginary cause is more

important than their own flesh and blood. Plus, the child was female, and in the eyes of Islam and some others, a lesser human being, perhaps.

[Marrah_G]

16. Religion

[LittleBlue]

17. They loved their God more than they loved their daughter

[linuxman]

19. Radical Islam is a hell of a drug.

[meow2u3]

36. It isn't just radical Islam--more like radical fundamentalism. Period.

Remember last week's Planned Parenthood massacre in Colorado? Radical Chrstianity is also some powerfully addictive drug.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

110. True, but it didn't seem like that piece of shit had much to live for

Alone, divorced. No kids, or at least not young ones.

What is it about Islamic fundamentalism that it seems like it bands multiple people together to carry out attacks? Young men and now women, with families.

How come with all the Christian propaganda out there in this country right now, you can't find five or six Xtian fundy nuts to band together and carry out an attack?

Strange.

[Rex]

20. Maybe they were forced to with some threat to their baby.

Who knows, my guess is a higher ranked terrorist told them to do it or the baby dies and they did it. Nothing else really makes sense.

[moondust]

21. I have a rough theory.

Last edited Fri Dec 4, 2015, 02:37 PM - Edit history (1)

It goes like this:

The suspects were naive enough to believe they wouldn't get caught. All the pipe bombs and ammo in their home suggest they were planning more than one attack, to take place maybe days or even weeks or months later. They would effectively become serial undercover jihadists leading dual lives. They had the perfect cover: wonderful young family with a new baby, good job, success story. Nobody would suspect them; and everybody that knew them is now stunned to find out that it was them. It doesn't make any sense that somebody with that much going for them would throw it all away committing acts of terror and mass murder.

But they screwed up. They wore masks into the Inland Center to avoid being recognized by his co-workers, but apparently some of them recognized his voice and build. Somebody there may have tipped off police as to his identity and police found the suspects' home. The suspects emerged from the home and police chased them to their ultimate deaths after a firefight.

Why would they do it? I dunno. Maybe just to cause general panic and terror in the land, possibly hoping to push the U.S. farther into the battle against ISIS. The public would naturally blame ISIS/terrorists for these unsolved terror attacks taking place every few days or weeks or months in southern California.

Who knows?

ETA: Seems to fit the definition of a SLEEPER CELL.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I think some of that makes a lot of sense.

For sure, there were elements of the thing which indicate they were trying to get away with it; the rental car, the masks, etc.

But if they were just trying to be stealth undercover terrorists, why start with the guy's own place of work? Seems a bit personal.

[Dorian Gray]

31. Yeah

you should choose a place that you have no link to. Seems poorly thought out on their part.

Having said that, I can't imagine they were in their right mind. At all.

How do you have a new baby... all that hope in a new life.... and do THIS????????

Ugh.

Hateful.

[jeff47]

52. Because one of his coworkers was also a fundamentalist jerk

and they apparently got in a lot of heated arguments about religion.

[pnwest]

62. Not the brightest bulbs

Because, like most criminals, they weren't the brightest bulbs on the string...overestimated their own cleverness, underestimated American cops. (I know, we all hate cops, but don't underestimate their abilities...)

[polly7]

29. I agree with you, also. I think they did believe they'd get away with it. nt.

[951-Riverside]

22. Easy: In their warped mind they sacrificed themselves for the baby...

or the baby isn't even theirs and/or they had the baby as cover so even if someone noticed something suspicious law enforcement wouldn't pay them any attention.

At least they didn't use the baby to do something far worse although if more of these savages are out there, they'll start using babies too.

[struggle4progress]

23. They thought they'd get away with it.

They rented an SUV for the big event several days in advance. They planted explosive devices with remote detonators. They wore disguises. And they drove away afterwards

The authorities caught up with them because when his name came up, investigators were able to tie him to an SUV rental matching the description of an SUV at the scene, and they encountered the SUV when checking out related addresses

[951-Riverside]

25. +1

Glad I'm not the only one to think this.

[milestogo]

24. Nobody ever gets away with a mass shooting.

SWAT teams shoot to kill. Maybe that's what was in their minds, but if so it was a gross miscalculation.

[MADem]

26. Girls have less value than boys to people with that kind of warped viewpoint.

I have to wonder if they wouldn't have delayed their rampage if the kid had been a boy...?

[treestar]

57. Quite possible

They'd have seen it as their duty to raise a Muslim.

[2naSalit]

68. I was thinking about that too. nt

[treestar]

30. Amen.

I cannot understand that at all.

[ladyVet]

32. Untreated mental illness.

Anybody who gets caught up in any religion (or anything else) to the point they want other people dead is mentally ill. It doesn't matter what religion it is. Religion is the wrapper the crazy is in.

[no_hypocrisy]

33. They love death more than life.

[treestar]

55. This ^^^^^^^

That is a quote from one of the 911 hijackers or OBL or one of his minions. They had the daughter to continue their blood line and that's all they needed to do, perhaps.

[Nye Bevan]

34. Last year an Islamic father participated in the stoning to death of his own daughter.

The heartbreaking footage shows the woman - who is accused of committing adultery - begging her dad to forgive her, saying "please father" and "forgive me".

But - despite his daughter being moments away from being brutally killed - he refuses and says: "I am not your father anymore".

He then turns to the militants stood nearby and signals for his daughters brutal execution to begin.

As the young woman lies in a pit, huge rocks are thrown onto her. Her father then picks up one of largest rocks and uses it to kill his helpless daughter.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sickening-isis-video-shows-moment-4475785

These people might as well be a different species.

[Fumesucker]

43. For good people to do evil things, that takes religion

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg

[Nye Bevan]

45. These are not "good people" (nt)

[Fumesucker]

46. If they were raised from birth as you were do you think they would be different from you?

Of if you were raised from birth as they have been would you be different than them?

[Nye Bevan]

59. I'm sure I wouldn't stone my own daughter to death,

no matter how I was raised.

[hifiguy]

67. One of my favorite quotes

Along with Carl Sagan's "I'd rather know than believe."

[treestar]

53. Big difference

A baby who didn't do anything.

[Nye Bevan]

58. Versus an "adulteress" who might be more worthy of punishment?

Last edited Fri Dec 4, 2015, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

I can't believe you just posted that.

[treestar]

92. I'm talking about from their mind, obviously

You are usually not one to go nuclear and try to paint another poster as meaning the worst thing possible. Surprised.

[Nye Bevan]

100. Point taken,

I would have said "Big difference from their point of view".

[bettyellen]

74. Holy shit- NO. Adultery should not be punishable by torture and death

[treestar]

93. I did not say that

I was talking about how they might look at it. Why does that mean I have to approve? I cannot believe how people react around here. It's like you are looking for an excuse. Obviously I don't condone torture, etc. Geez we cannot even talk about how other people might think without having to agree with them?

[bettyellen]

96. You said "big difference" but not to them. Sorry but that sounded like your thoughts

And bullshit to "looking for it". That is ALSO from a victim blaming mindset. You misspoke, clarify and deal with it like an adult.

[treestar]

97. that was obvious

No one on DU would be for the Saudi way of handling legal things. That could have been explained or asked about instead of jumping on the chance to think you found someone wrong. Adults don't do that.

[Demit]

102. It does seem like people are spoiling for a fight around here.

I've been seeing a lot of belligerent anger in threads today. I hope it subsides

[Warren Stupidity]

35. I think the child was part of their plan.

Their family continues, their obligation to their parents were performed and they were free to die for their imaginary gods.

[enid602]

38. baby shower

And murdering all those people was kind of a tacky way of thanking them for throwing the baby's shower just a few months before.

[Yorktown]

39. Religious indoctrination is a potent poison

[hifiguy]

105. Sometimes quite literally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Deaths_in_Jonestown

[Yorktown]

117. Religion: the ultimate Kool Aid

if you forgive the gallows humor

[hifiguy]

118. No problem. I have been fascinated by Jonestown

since it happened. I was 22 at the time. Read all the magazine articles, books, thought deeply about it and I still cannot understand it. I can understand an individual deciding that life is unbearable and ending it but what I cannot understand is why and how a group of that many people would let their wills, both collective and individual, be subsumed to the point that those people's were. I fail to understand today's religulous psychotics for the same reason.

But then I am a born skeptic and on the autism spectrum to boot. My mind works like Data's.

The greatest power humans possess is reason. It's nothing less than a tragedy that so few choose to use it.

[Yorktown]

119. Jonestown is a miniature replica of all religions

Remember the disciples ready to die, and the centuries of believers fed to the lions
(even if Christian propaganda greatly inflated the numbers)

Remember what one of the 'rightly guided caliphs' told the ruler of Egypt: we like death as you love life.

Religions are Jonestown sects that made it.

[hifiguy]

120. Blammo.

Absolutely. An established "religion" is just a kook cult that managed to survive, usually by converting the nearby "heathens' at the point of a sword.

Jonestown really is a microcosm of all godhead-based religions. And that is a horribly sobering thought.

[malaise]

47. Remember culturally

daughters aren't important.

[RandySF]

51. Radicalized religion will do that to people.

[LisaL]

60. Having young children doesn't stop terrorists from committing their acts.

Boston marathon bomber had a young child.

[Tsiyu]

64. We in the US appear not to have received the memo

There is a malignant, metastasizing, desolating WAR going on in the Middle East.

Syrians and other refugees aren't fleeing to Germany for Oktoberfest. They're doing the same thing you or I or anyone smart would do when war has come to their homes: grab their little ones by the hands and flee from bombed out homes and streets and gunfire and Daesh demons kidnapping and raping their daughters, wives and mothers - and recruiting their sons.

We are far removed in our relative safety, but elsewhere there are bombings and bloodcurdling screams.

We've left a lot of military hardware behind.in the Middle East and it's in bad hands. We've left even more sorrow behind.

Those Ba'athists of Saddam's are now Daesh, thanks to our invasion of Iraq and absolute mangling of its new government. People in the Middle East who have lost everything due to the constant tribal/Russian/US/ blah blah blah invasions are now Daesh, partially thanks to us. There is much simmering resentment, not for our freedoms, but for our blatant destruction of their towns and people. Right or wrong, Christian or Muslim or Atheist, conservative or liberal, no matter which side of the fence you're on, you have to face the facts and see that goddamned reality is goddamned reality.

Human grudges are strange things. I live in the South, where Yankees are still hated to this day. People don't like to lose or experience degradation from invaders. People in the Middle East who get the wars brought to their doorsteps want people in the US to understand what that's like. That's what this sort of terrorism represents: YOU WILL FEEL MY PAIN.

There have been some pretty severe losses recently on both sides. Daesh members may be panicking and feel the need to step up attacks. We're killing Daesh members, and these are actual humans that other people, as difficult as it may be to hear, love and care about very much.

All of it is wrong. All of the religious sorts--who are deluded into thinking their god is so petty and weak, He or She or IT needs them to kill innocent people to make the world better--are frantic, manic zealots who are blinded by their devotion to a cause that makes them special, set apart, destined for reward.

Humans love that carrot on a stick thing, that feeling of being on a crusade, a holy mission only they can accomplish. They love imagining their God hizzownself patting them on the head and telling them how good they are. They like feeling superior, and they take that to indicate they ARE superior.

Then they get guns and go kill for their sky daddy.

What does their child matter? Just like the Christian parents who spent hours in a church with other members pummeling their son to death, zealotry blinds its victims from experiencing love.

All they know is hatred for anything that isn't them, or their Allah, Yawai, God, what the fuck ever....


My random $.02 so I could put off washing dishes and raking leaves.

Have a great weekend DU

[hifiguy]

65. Religulous idiocy.

It's a bottomless well of Teh Stoopid because it falsely promises Pie In The Sky When You Die for the Imaginary Man up there. That's a powerful lure for people who drop their brains and rationality in a dumpster.

[OldHippieChick]

69. My theory:

She had given her heart to someone in ISIS in Saudi. They discovered him looking for a wife on the internet and used her to bring him to Saudi for the Haj and they worked him along w/ her. She never loved him but was working him the entire time, which is why she had no connection w/ the child. He was always being used and manipulated.

[TeeYiYi]

85. A viable theory.

Makes sense to me.

TYY

[still_one]

76. I don't think they planned on committing suicide.

[Scootaloo]

79. Agreed

They fled the scene. They tried to conceal their identities. They expected to get away with it.

[Historic NY]

81. They probably thought they would get away....

a (Redlands) cop saw a vehicle matching the description given. They sped away alerting him .

"After the shooting at Inland Regional Center, authorities generated a lead that turned up a name. Detectives followed up on it at the home in Redlands. While there, a black SUV with Utah plates passed by slowly then sped up and raced off. A police car looking for the suspect vehicle spotted the SUV and took up pursuit."


http://www.wptz.com/national/urgent-redlands-suv-utah-plates-shooting/36769230

[still_one]

82. In a way it was just luck. They were no where to be found for several hours after the slaughter

[Ex Lurker]

83. I wonder if that SUV had GPS

it would be interesting to know where they were all that time, and who they might have been in contact with.

[Historic NY]

84. I'd imagine their cell phones did.....

I don't know if Ford equivalent of On-Star has tracking/

[ecstatic]

77. Post partum psychosis?

Not sure what his excuse is though...

[Skittles]

78. once your logical skepticism is gone

you can be made to believe ANYTHING

[hifiguy]

106. Drop the mic, Skittles.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

[Skittles]

112. I have heard Christians trashing the beliefs of others

while they believe in virgin birth, rising from the dead, etc.

[hifiguy]

113. Of all human inventions,

religion is without question and by far the worst, hands down.

[TeeYiYi]

115. ...parting the Red Sea. ..nt

TYY

[TeeYiYi]

114. Absolutely...

...drop the mic! Thank you, hifiguy.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

TYY
ETA: A nod to Skittles:

78. "once your logical skepticism is gone you can be made to believe ANYTHING"

[bettyellen]

80. the kids are pawns in a bigger plan.

[Arugula Latte]

86. That's the danger of adhering to factless, evidence-free belief systems

and why our elevation of "faith" as a good thing is twisted and dangerous.

Irrational anti-science, anti-evidence beliefs need more pushback here and around the world.

[backscatter712]

94. Religion.

Islam in particular has a lot of Quranic verses that promote violence, and the Muslim world has a culture that glorifies barbarism.

Christianity also has these things, but today, because of sociological factors like more widespread poverty, war, etc. Islam is worse.

There, I said it. Let me know how the alert goes...

[hifiguy]

111. The simple fact is that Sam Harris was and is right.

Whether people want to admit it or not, the truth is what it is.

The contortions some here subject themselves to in order to avoid staring this truth in the face are extremely dispiriting. While any religion or belief system that appeals toand is based on placating an invisible and unknowable Final Authority can, and inevitably, will be used to justify barbarism, the facts of the modern world show that over the last few decades only one is consistently (NB, I said consistently, NOT exclusively) the source of the most barbaric and inhuman outrages imaginable. Too many people would rather be "politically correct" than face the truth.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

Of all human inventions, it is beyond any rational question that religion is the worst, most useless and most destructive.

The knee-jerk reactions seen here in the last couple of days which try to explain away the motives underlying this atrocity and the source of those motivations are in a way understandable but do not bear serious scrutiny; Many if not most of us on the left are always ready to stand up for a perceived underdog. In most cases that is admirable, and in many it is morally necessary; in this case it's like deliberately putting out one eye and wearing a patch over the other. It's a conditioned reflex based in some sort of senseless and free-floating cause-free guilt, which is a mental dysfunction beyond the scope of this post. A dispassionate reflection on the assembled facts show it to be a grievously wrongheaded response.

It's not without precedent. Back in the 1920s and 1930s many of the US left denied or would/could not allow themselves to believe the reports of Stalin's almost incomprehensible brutalities, atrocities and purges, and now the same mindset of denial is being repeated, once again in the face of contrary facts. There is such a thing as a belief system, be it Stalinism or islam - and I am not conflating the two, merely using them as individual and separate examples - that have in their DNA what can only be called evil or barbarism. How often must history teach this lesson? Xtianity seemed to have outgrown this - though I have no time for it or any other religion - but the same sorts of ignorant and barbaric yawps that stoked the pogroms and the Inquisition are once again being heard in this country not only from unhinged dingbats like the PP shooter but from actual presidential candidates.

But then I'm on the autism spectrum and my mind works like Data's or Spock's. Logic and nothing but.

[hollowdweller]

99. Radical Islam is like the Hippie movement

People grew their hair long, questioned western civilization and rebelled against the status quo.


With the radical Islam thing it's also a phenomenon of the young, people wear hijabs and grow their beards long. They question the status quo.

Both were a worldwide phenomenon.

However while there were people like the Weathermen and stuff the hippies were more rooted in peace and love where the Islamic thing is rooted in killing unbelievers.

[valerief]

101. Gawd told them. nt

[PeteSelman]

103. They were embarking on a killing spree, why would they give a fuck about the kid?

ISIS is a death cult. I'm surprised they didn't bring the baby along quite frankly.

[TeeYiYi]

116. They were saving that for another day.

re: "I'm surprised they didn't bring the baby along quite frankly."

TYY