Notice anything?

[Lochloosa]

[world wide wally]

1. A coincidence?

[femmocrat]

2. I expected PA to be higher.

We have our share of gun nuts here, applications for concealed carry permits are on the rise, and our local news is filled with daily shootings.

[treestar]

3. Right wingers like to cite Chicago

Interesting that it is lighter. And New York being that light is quite interesting - it contains the largest city - right wingers love to go on about violence in cities. Yet look at the darker states being more rural than not.

[Brickbat]

4. The San Bernardino shooting, Sandy Hook and Aurora theater shooting all happened in blue states?

[ladyVet]

22. I don't think you're supposed to notice that. nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Splashy, but tiny points of sensationalism in a nation awash in gun deaths.

Ultimately 'massacres' are just the flame to which the media moths are drawn, while they mostly ignore thousands of deaths at the 'retail' level rather than 'wholesale' level.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. And, btw, some of those 'blue' states really aren't.

Take Ohio for instance. Shown in blue, but we have a Republican governor, state level officials, almost all Republican state legislature, only a few Dem Representatives and one Dem Senator. So we had enough crossover support for first black President to be considered a 'blue state'. Whoopee. It doesn't change the fact that our legislature is shutting down abortion clinics left and right, trying to introduce draconian pregnancy bills, that our secretary of state is helping local districts keep minorities from voting, that we get more regressive taxes, attempts to destroy unions and make us right to work, and that state property is sold off to cronies of those in power.

I imagine if you talk to other folk in some of those 'blue' states, that you'll find that 'blue' is just a veneer as well.

[GummyBearz]

35. Then I guess the map really has no meaning

and therefore no legitimate conclusions can be drawn from it.

[Rex]

5. That some of the poorest states have the highest amount of gun violence?

[pintobean]

6. I wonder if that's due to suicides.

[Rex]

7. That is a good point, many of these deaths are suicides

that get lumped in with other forms of gun violence. I've read a large portion is suicide.

[pintobean]

9. Two thirds is what I've seen referenced.

Also, I'm sure St. Louis, which is very blue, skews the rate for the rest of the state. Our murder rate is on pace to exceed 1995 levels, a year we were number one in the country. I don't think the comparison in the OP means very much.

[Rex]

12. Well I am not buying what is being sold either.

YES red states have gun violence...but so do blue states. And a lot of it is self inflicted.

[steve2470]

8. Those Hawaiians need to start packing, gosh darnit!!!

Whatever they are doing in HI, it's obviously working pretty well.

[jeff47]

11. I went on vacation to Hawaii once.

We're snorkeling, looking at pretty fish, and this old, beat up pickup truck pulls up to the beach. A man, a woman and a kid.

The man gets out of the truck, and pulls a bucket out of the back. He walks out onto the rocks and takes a net out of the bucket. Spends a minute or two looking into the water, and then throws the net. Hauls it back in, and there's a decent pile of fish that go into his bucket. He then walks back to the truck, and they drive off.

So I'm left thinking that this guy just fed his family with about 2 minutes of "work", while living in a tropical paradise. I can understand the lack of stress that then leads to a lack of violence.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. I hate to help the gun nuts out but this seems to show firearm deaths, not just shootings.

There could be other factors at play like quick access to emergency medical care.

[2naSalit]

19. In my state

Montana, there is a long drive to most healthcare facilities if you don't live in a city... I know of three people who killed themselves with a gun after a cancer diagnosis and even more who just decided to drink themselves to death after a terminal illness was diagnosed. It's not just the access to healthcare, it's a mindset where the will to live goes away.

[KansDem]

13. New York ranks third after Hawaii and Massachusetts in lowest number

Impressive, considering its large urban populations. What is the secret of its success?

[Lucky Luciano]

17. Make it too expensive to live in NYC and the poor go elsewhere!

Though there is a significantly can't redneck contingent in rural NYS that appears to have low death rates too I guess.

[MynameisBlarney]

14. Wow.

That is something.

[Lurks Often]

15. Here is a list with the actual number of murders per state

The columns are sortable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

The top 5 states with the most murders using a firearm, in order: CA, TX, FL, NY & PA. CA & NY have strict gun control laws, TX, FL & PA don't have strict gun control laws.

[homegirl]

16. Cherry picking stats

is misleading. You should give the per capita numbers. That puts many states way ahead of CA and NY.

[Lurks Often]

20. The OP cherry picked the stats too

The actual numbers should be listed as well

[Major Nikon]

36. WTF are you talking about?

The numbers in the OP were rates per 100,000 and all states were listed. Nothing cherry picked about it. Listing actual numbers with no onus to population is the epitome of "cherry picking" and is nothing more than meaningless gibberish given from either gross ignorance or willful intent to deceive.

[Lurks Often]

39. Yawn

Going simply by rate, it makes states like Vermont and North Dakota seem far more violent they are

The columns are sortable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

The top 5 states with the most murders using a firearm, in order: CA, TX, FL, NY & PA. CA & NY have strict gun control laws, TX, FL & PA don't have strict gun control laws.

[Major Nikon]

41. Bullshit

"The top 5 states with the most murders using a firearm" is utterly meaningless to anyone with enough synapses actively firing to realize California has 52 times more people than North Dakota.

[Lurks Often]

42. What's bullshit is blaming an object instead doing something about the underlying causes

You really want to see crime go down? Legalize pot, create REAL jobs for the people living in the poor sections of cities and surrounding suburbs, prosecute and put away repeat violent offenders, no more plea bargaining away charges when a gun is used in a violent felony. Go after straw purchasers and hit them with the full 10 year jail sentence and $100,000 fine.

That will reduce the number of shootings, not more laws on top of the already strict laws in place. Laws you stand no chance of passing at the Federal level in the foreseeable future.

[Major Nikon]

43. Wow! A clever repackaging of the tired old "guns don't kill people" line

Never saw that one coming.

[Lurks Often]

44. Is that all you can manage?

Feel free to post an idea that actually has a chance of passing Congress, holds up to judicial scrutiny and is acceptable to the majority of the states.

[Major Nikon]

45. You stole my line!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. So we should do nothing?

[Live and Learn]

21. K&R nt

[beevul]

23. "Rate" maps are misleading.

Low population plays as much part in higher rates, as high population does in hiding huge numbers of gun deaths in comfortably misleading rates.

See CA and AK for examples.

Or just look at a map of actual gun violence, where it happens:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172149251


It isn't so simple...

[raccoon]

24. My lord, SC is just about covered with purple circles.

I need to move, maybe to SD.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. Looks about right.

Ohio basically disappears.

Every newscast we see a shooting or two or four listed in Cincinnati or Dayton it seems.

[Major Nikon]

37. Maps like that are far more misleading

A population density map would look exactly like the one you presented. LA alone has 25 times more people than the entire state of North Dakota. So while living a mile away from your nearest neighbor might make you safer from gun violence purely by virtue of geography, that fact just isn't that relevant towards gun policy unless the solution is to get people to live farther away from each other.

[beevul]

46. To those not interested in looking at objective facts perhaps.

A population density map would look exactly like the one you presented.

So what?

So while living a mile away from your nearest neighbor might make you safer from gun violence purely by virtue of geography, that fact just isn't that relevant towards gun policy unless the solution is to get people to live farther away from each other.

The map I posted serves to identify both the location of the problem, and the magnitude of the problem, as opposed to projecting a misleading pretense that certain low population states have as much of a gun misuse problem as states like CA or Ill, which is exactly what the 'rate' maps do.

[Major Nikon]

47. Sure, about as objective as looking at a map of the number of anal warts

Just because there's far more people in LA who have heart attacks compared to Fargo, doesn't mean you are more healthy because you live there. If you think the incident number trumps any function of population, you have a poor understanding of statistical analysis.

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. Yes: People in GOP-dominated states commit suicide a lot.

Can't say I blame them...

[merrily]

28. For one thing, Arkansas more gun deaths than Vermont.

[meaculpa2011]

31. Vermont has the least restrictive gun laws in the country. n/t

[merrily]

32. Yet far fewer gun deaths than Arkansas. I'm not getting your point?

[meaculpa2011]

34. No point. Just an observation. n/t

[meaculpa2011]

30. There were 2,300 murders in New York City...

in 1990. Last year there were a little more than 300.

Still horrendous, but nowhere near what it once was.

I've lived in NYC my whole life. The nightly local-news murder rundown from 1960 to 2000 was mind numbing.

[lonestarnot]

33. Yeah notice America gone nuts.

[Sunlei]

38. missing are shootings where the victim survives. I think many more survive.

[kydo]

40. Ok. so rethugs will just off themselves faster

If only innocent people didn't have to get caught in the cross fire, I'd have no issues letting rethugs blast each other's brains out. It sure would speed up their extinction. But the innocent people that have to die in order to speed up ridding the planet of this scourge isn't worth it. As it is now many rethugs are old and already dieing off faster then they can brainwash replacement voters. It will just take a little longer before they are gone. Oh then happy days.