With all of the hand wringing and concern that we don't "offend" anyone....

[clarice]

I haven't found a post about the REAL victims. Allow me.





[link:http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-victims-htmlstory.html|

[Renew Deal]

1. Is it true that someone lost 6 kids?

[clarice]

2. I don't know Renew....I haven't heard that...but possible. nt

[bunnies]

3. He was a father of 6. nt

[clarice]

4. Good gracious....that pisses me off. nt

[bunnies]

16. Its horrific. And right before the holidays.

That poor family. All those families. There are no words.

[clarice]

17. There ARE no words....I am literally shaking with rage and hate. *deep breath*nt

[Renew Deal]

8. Thanks

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. No, one of the vicitms was the father of six kids

http://abc7chicago.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-father-of-6-health-dept-employees-among-14-killed/1108413/

[Renew Deal]

6. Still terrible

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. It is

[clarice]

7. Just gone.....and for WHAT !!!!!!!! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I never try to answer those questions when it comes to crime

because I will go crazy

[clarice]

12. I know Dear....me too. But it's time that we all admit that we have a HUGE...

problem/issue in front of us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I crossed that bridge a long time ago

But since these were the scary other, and you are seeing this here as well... people will not deal with this... and yes self radicalization sucks... but the elephant is also the free availability of guns and a general culture.

[clarice]

15. With all due respect....I can agree with 1/2 of that. Be well....try not to worry. nt

[JI7]

9. father of six kids, another had a newborn , one was planning wedding

and too many other good people just dying when they should not be.

[clarice]

13. Not trying to cause a ruckus....

But if you were King....what would do about this terrible problem?
If you would rather not answer, that's cool.

[cwydro]

18. No, I think one was a dad to 6 kids.

Awful.

[840high]

61. no

[hifiguy]

19. That is just heart-crushing.

Sacrificed for nothing on the twin altars of barbarism: idjit religion and gunz. I despair for the fate of humanity.

[clarice]

20. What I also find Heart wrenching is the fact that.....

There are HUNDREDS of posts on DU deriding those who seem "anti-muslim"
But over 300 views of this post about the victims....... 19 responses. WTF ?????!!!!!

[hifiguy]

21. The contortions to which some here will bend in order to deny the truth

are astonishing and profoundly disheartening.

Sam Harris was and is right and that's all there is to it. While any religion or belief system can and will be used to justify barbarism, the facts of the modern world show that over the last few decades only one is consistently (NB, I said consistently, NOT exclusively) the source of the most barbaric and inhuman outrages imaginable. Too many people would rather be "politically correct" than face the truth.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

Of all human inventions, it is beyond any rational question that religion is the worst, most useless and most destructive.

[clarice]

23. VERY well put...but I wonder..

Anyone who loudly and consistently makes apologies/excuses for this behavior may not simply
trying to be "politically correct", But may have a totally different agenda than most Americans do.

[hifiguy]

26. I doubt it. It's in part a knee-jerk response

because many of us on the left are always ready to stand up for a perceived underdog. In most cases that is admirable, even morally necessary; in this case it's like deliberately putting out one eye and wearing a patch over the other. It's a conditioned reflex based in some sort of senseless and cause-free guilt. A dispassionate reflection on the assembled facts show it to be a grievously wrongheaded response.

But then I'm on the autism spectrum and my mind works like Data's or Spock's. Logic and nothing but.

[clarice]

28. Au Contraire Mons Freres...

You SEEM like one of the most reasened , level headed people that I have met here thus far. nt

[840high]

62. Certainly possible.

[smirkymonkey]

38. That makes me absolutely sick.

Sometimes I am embarrassed to call myself a liberal. Some priorities are really out of whack here.

[clarice]

40. Thank you SM.......I needed that *smooch* nt

[countryjake]

22. Here's another...

Stories of those who died in the mass shooting in California

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Stories-of-those-who-died-in-the-mass-shooting-in-California-360586881.html


Michael Raymond Wetzel, left rear, is seen with his family in this undated, family handout photo. Wetzel was one of 14 killed Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2015 in a commando-style assault on a holiday party in San Bernardino, Calif. (Wetzel Family via AP)


Most of the 14 people killed at a holiday banquet in San Bernardino County, California, worked in the same county public health department as the man who showed up with his wife and sprayed the hall with gunfire.

An official list of the dead was released Thursday, and families, friends and co-workers came forward to share some of their stories...

The bigots and gun nutz of our country should be bombarded with the profiles of these tragically innocent people.

[clarice]

24. Sh%$...Fu$#...Pi$$....Bas$%rds !!!!!!!!!!!!! nt

[clarice]

25. 358 views and 13 responses and counting. nt

[hifiguy]

27. I will kick this one regularly for the next few hours.

Seems like some just don't want to hear this.

[clarice]

29. You ROCK !!!!! nt

[Kingofalldems]

30. I weep for the latest victims also.

Of course there was another terrorist attack last week. They were real victims too.

[clarice]

31. 474 views, 15 responses. nt

[smirkymonkey]

39. Grrr!

That just makes my blood boil!

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

32. Thank you.

I'm glad I clicked on this thread.

[clarice]

33. I am glad too TexMo minus hat. nt

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

34. Name comes from a fantastic photo of Ann Richards

wearing a cowboy hat. One day, that would be my avatar.

[clarice]

35. I know EXACTLY what picture you mean.....classic. I wonder....

Whay aren't we allowed to pick our own avatar?

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

36. I believe you can.

You have to pay, but I haven't paid, since I keep telling myself I don't have time for this.

[clarice]

37. Oh right !!! .....me either. lol nt

[smirkymonkey]

41. K&R. Thank you for posting!

It's about time we got around to the real tragedy here.

[clarice]

42. Thanks again SM....do you have any rationalization for the lack of concern over the victims?nt

[Kingofalldems]

45. Are you concerned with the victims are are you just trying to criticize DU?

Already 4 responses from you in this thread complaining about DUers.
Example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027416055#post20

In this response it looks like you are calling some here Un-American:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027416055#post23

[randys1]

51. Thank you for making the point I dare not make

I would love to express my sadness for the victims but would rather do it in a thread that doesnt start out by insulting me for having a liberal political position.

[AnnetteJacobs]

53. Hypocrisy from the get-go.

[closeupready]

72. Yup. +1000.

Disgusted by the lack of self-restraint on her part. Perhaps her emotions are getting the best of her, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. She IS a long-time member, after all.

[smirkymonkey]

47. I really don't know. Maybe people are too preoccupied with fighting over

the gun and racism issues. I really would have expected better from DU.

[clarice]

49. Ditto. nt

[cornball 24]

56. I am in total agreement

with both you, Clarice and, sadly, so few others on DU. I cannot believe all the irrelevant minutia that is being posted here at a time when innocent people have been annihilated by those who exploit our way of life in their malevolent efforts to destroy us. I don't give a flying shit about all the back and forth intellectualizing that is being posted. The fact of the matter is that people who gathered together in the spirit of camaraderie were slaughtered by those whose ideology is anathema to our way of life.

[smirkymonkey]

57. Thanks cornball24 and welcome to DU!

It gets a little heated around here at times, especially with these types of issues. However we need more caring people like you to stick around.

[Crunchy Frog]

58. Would you be happier if they'd been slaughtered

by a deranged, white, male "lone wolf"?

Would they be better off having suffered a higher class, more all American sort of slaughter?

Our "way of life" (I'm assuming you mean unrestrained gun ownership) leaves us wide open for exploitation by terrorists, as demonstrated by two incidents of domestic terrorism in less than a week.

Maybe some aspects of our way of life need to be reexamined.

[cornball 24]

59. Please,

do not assume. I am disgusted by the lack of background checks and all things responsible for the availability of guns to ANY person(s) whose intention is to use said guns for the commitment of evil acts. I am appalled by the power of the NRA and its lack of regard for regulation of firearms. To "assume" that my reference to "our way of life" has anything at all to do with guns is a very subjective interpretation on your part. FYI, I refer to the MANY freedoms available here in America, one of them being your right to reply to my post with your "would you be happier if they'd been slaughtered..." balderdash!

[Crunchy Frog]

60. If I misunderstood the meaning of your post, I apologize.

[cornball 24]

63. Accepted. Have

a peaceful evening, my friend.

[Crunchy Frog]

65. Thanks. You too.

And welcome to DU.

[clarice]

66. You ROCK!!!!! nt

[arcane1]

52. I had no idea this OP was about the victims until I clicked on it.

I passed it over several times because I thought it would be about political correctness or something.

[clarice]

54. I'm sorry I gave that impression. Thanks for stopping by. nt

[MerryBlooms]

43. .

[clarice]

44. That was awesome....thanks.nt

[clarice]

46. 600 hundred views....approx 20 legitamate responses... you know....

I used to believe that the best thing about the liberal mind set, was being possessed of a warm, caring, giving heart.
That conviction has been ruined for me today. Thanks to those of you who REALLY know what compassion means.

[FrodosPet]

48. Sad times, in so many ways

From San Bernadino to Colorado Springs to Paris to Raqqa, I mourn the victims of evil violent men. Even if our species is too fucking obstinate to seek and find peace throughout the world, I hope the families and friends and communities of the victims can find some healing in their souls.

[clarice]

50. sigh. nt

[clarice]

55. 850 views....22 legitimate responses. nt

[hifiguy]

64. Kick.

[LanternWaste]

67. I imagine if we pretend really hard, the hand-wringing becomes obvious.

I imagine if the irrational and the gullible pretend hard enough, the hand-wringing does indeed, become obvious to their creative imaginations.

[smirkymonkey]

68. K&R

[closeupready]

69. Just what the hell is your reference to "hand wringing" supposed to mean?

Are we here on DU supposed to all jump on your 'bomb them to hell and let God sort them out' bullshit?

Not doing it, nope - not now, not ever.

As someone who feels as badly for those who lost their lives and their loved ones, I really think you went beyond the pale here with your two-faced slap at liberals here.

[clarice]

70. Peace. And Merry Christmas. nt

[closeupready]

71. You and I and everyone know exactly what your backhanded slap at liberals

on the board here was supposed to mean, and no, I'm not going to buy into Islamophobic bigotry. Not now, and not ever.

I do hope you are able to think through your emotions over this, and I'm pretty sure you will.

Merry Christmas to you, as well.

[clarice]

73. I think that you missed the entire point. No worries, these are very trying times. nt

[closeupready]

74. Ok, if so, then I apologize, Clarice.

[clarice]

75. No need to apologize.....but gratefully accepted. Allow me to explain...

My op was directed at liberals/repubs/moderates/libertarians/media etc.

I am just sick of the attention,apologizing,rationalizing,nit picking that goes on
concerning the "politicizing" that always happens after a tragic event like this (from ALL sides)

So very little concern is paid to the actual VICTIMS of these crimes. I was just much more
frustrated at the liberal base because we pride ourselves on caring and compassion. You have to admit,
over 1200 views, and barely 30 legitimate replies expressing remorse for the victims is pretty lame.

[closeupready]

76. While I respect your right to an opinion, I don't see it that way.

I think that's all I want to say here, but I hope your week goes well. Cheers.

[clarice]

77. Back atcha. nt

[Orrex]

78. Could you repost the officially sanctioned list of things we're permitted to worry about?

You know, the one that shows the correct way to prioritize our concerns and our discussions?

Thanks--it would be ever so helpful.

[clarice]

79. I would be delighted...but I only have time for a couple....

1. You're own priorities.
2. Loss of innocent human life.

[Orrex]

81. Everyone doesn't address those in the same order, or in the same way

Some see anti-Muslim sentiment as an exacerbating factor that further escalates tensions in an unhelpful way, potentially worsening the overall crisis.

Others see the number of deaths inflicted by terrorists and weigh these against the number of civilians we've murdered with firebombs and drone strikes.

Others can crunch the numbers and see the rates of gun-inflicted homicide as an intolerable obscenity, demanding a response beyond prayers or mourning for this dozen or that dozen victims.

Ultimately, it's up to the individual to find an appropriate response, even if it's an evolutionary process that doesn't satisfy others' sensibilities.

[clarice]

82. 100%.....A very VERY vexing situation. nt

[NaturalHigh]

80. K and R. Thanks for posting, Clarice.

[clarice]

84. Thanks NH. nt

[Squinch]

83. Thank you.

[clarice]

85. No..thank YOU. nt

[Squinch]

86. Is it me, or is that an unusually pleasant looking group of people? The waste of life and

potential is heartbreaking.

[clarice]

87. No matter how hard I try.... I still can't wrap my head around it. nt

[Squinch]

88. Again. Which is the horrible thing.

[clarice]

89. feel ya. nt