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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Two Standards??
I was pondering the other day, in light of the massacre in San Bernardino, their were many calls for the Muslim community to offer some sort of statement of regret or apology for the actions of the two shooters. This got me to thinking, when Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City nobody demanded an apology from a representative of the White-Christian community. Why should our Muslim brothers and sisters be required to publicly renounce San Bernardino when White-Christians at Oklahoma City got a pass? Perhaps it's time we quit trying to lay blame and instead seek answers to our differences as a peoples. We now know conclusively that race does not exist. Like it or not we are all one people, don't you think it's about time we starting acting like one?
randys1
(16,286 posts)Xenophobic, etc.
Now I think all religion causes more harm than good and I despise a religion that makes Women second class citizens.
But I also despise a religion that teaches all Gays should die, and many xtians do just that.
So, like I say, all religion, bad.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)napkinz
(17,199 posts)clarice
(5,504 posts)linuxman
(2,337 posts)Wasn't motivated by Christian ideology.
He was an anti government and white supremacist type, but Christianity was never a part of his motivation.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Christians are evil...
napkinz
(17,199 posts)December 1, 2015
BY SHAUN KING
Less than 48 hours after Robert Lewis Dear shot 11 people, killing a police officer, a young mother and an Iraq war veteran at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Republican congressman Michael McCaul started making irrational and unfounded excuses for the shooter. I don't think it would fall under quite the definition of domestic terrorism, said McCaul, Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, during an interview on ABC News This Week with George Stephanopoulos. It's a tragedy. Its, I think, a mental health crisis.
-snip-
Are we actually supposed to believe that he randomly or accidentally targeted a Planned Parenthood clinic? Are we supposed to believe that it was only his poor mental health condition that caused him to choose such a place to cause murder and mayhem?
Early facts suggest it was far more nefarious and was indeed a form of domestic terrorism. According to NBC News, in his early interviews Dear referenced Planned Parenthood selling "baby parts" as part of his rationale for the attack. Just three months ago, conservative propaganda videos about Planned Parenthood went viral. They were clearly seen by Dear and impacted him deeply. Could it be that McCaul isn't quick to call Dear a terrorist because he, himself, is so publicly opposed to Planned Parenthood?
What's wild is that conservatives regularly speak about how ISIS uses propaganda videos to influence impressionable minds all over the world. They know that the purpose of those propaganda videos is to incite people to join their cause. Yet, somehow, conservatives think none of the steps that lead to terrorism abroad produce terrorists here.
read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-colo-planned-parenthood-shooting-terrorist-attack-article-1.2451292
clarice
(5,504 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)Family and friends mourn KeArre Stewart, Jennifer Markovsky and officer Garrett Swasey in wake of shooting at Colorado Springs facility on Friday
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/30/victims-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-shooting
The victims of the shooting at a Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs that left three people dead and nine wounded were preliminarily identified by local authorities on Sunday.
Two civilians a mother of two and an Iraq war veteran and one police officer were killed in the attack, for which suspect Robert Lewis Dear, 57, was taken into custody. Dear is scheduled to appear in court on Monday to be advised of the charges that could be filed against him...
~snip~
Jennifer Markovsky, a 35-year-old Hawaii-born resident of Colorado Springs, was killed while accompanying a friend during an appointment at the clinic. Her friend was shot in the hand.
~snip~
The second victim, Iraq war veteran KeArre Stewart, a 29-year-old father of two, ran back inside the clinic after being shot to warn those inside to take cover, his brother Leyonte Chandler told NBC News. Stewart had stepped outside to get better cellphone service when he was shot.
~snip~
Also killed in the attack was Garrett Swasey, a police officer for the University of Colorado-Colorado Springs , who was the first victim identified after the Friday shooting. Swasey, 44, left behind a wife and two children. He was at the university when he was called to assist with the active shooter situation.
(bolding within the article is mine)
napkinz
(17,199 posts)clarice
(5,504 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)that just makes it "sound" as though they have some role to declaim, that they're in some part responsible
it's a classic ploy, get people on the defensive: if CAIR took the path of fighting back and saying "WTF are you doing asking US about these human dumpster-fires?" then that gets criticized; if someone says "you must hate Marshall Islanders" and the target says "but I DON'T hate the Marshallese" then again it puts all the onus on the defender, to make them seem desperate
countryjake
(8,554 posts)napkinz
(17,199 posts)countryjake
(8,554 posts)They are all so incredibly relevant today.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)napkinz
(17,199 posts)acknowledge acts of terror carried out by followers of radical Christianity (because it's their own people who are carrying out those acts).
countryjake
(8,554 posts)What you said!
meow2u3
(24,764 posts)It's pronounced "cease you ess (implies "cease US" and that's exactly what CSUS wants to do to the country--put an end to the United States and replace it with a Christian version of Iran.
If Daesh wants to call itself ISIS, why not describe the Christianist version?
napkinz
(17,199 posts)meow2u3
(24,764 posts)Especially with the allusion to ISIS, I think CSUS befits these far-right, blasphemous, phony Christians.
melman
(7,681 posts)it's tiresome.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Once a year, I get together with a bunch of guys I grew up with. All white. We do a golf weekend.
First ... during this weekend, I'll hear the N word more times then I will the rest of the year. A couple of these guys, not all, are definitely racists, although they do not think they are.
Second ... when we get together, we talk about other guys we knew "way back in high school".
Most of those guys we talk about are also white (we lived in a white area). And we usually end up talking about bad thing that have happened, like how "Jack" lost his job because he drinks too much, beats his wife, and has multiple DUIs. Jack has screwed up his life. Sad. Bad Jack bad.
And if we talk about a black guy that we knew back then, or more likely a black guy one of use has worked with more recently ... and THAT GUY lost his job because he drinks too much, beats his wife, and has multiple DUIs ... the discussion is about how that black guy is like "them". Its what "they do". Bad blacks bad.
A white guy screws up ... HE screwed up.
A black guy (or other minority) screws up ... THEY ALL screwed up.
I pointed this out to my friends ... they did not appreciate it. But I also know, they know I'm right. The idea that some one else's screw up being applied to them makes them mad. Duh.
So why am I still friends with some of these guys? Because back when we grew up (just above poor in Philly), our friendships (much of them sports related) kept us from ending up on drugs, in jail, or dead. We helped each other survive, and ensured that none of us made some single mistake that ruins your life.
Having said that ... some 30ish years later ... there are a few of them that I don't talk to except on these golf trips.
And if not for our shared pasts growing up and survivingin Philly, I'd never take those few on as friends now.
clarice
(5,504 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Was McVeigh even a christian? Did he claim to be one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying himself as agnostic.
Just because he was white doesn't mean he was a Christian, and he sure wasn't operating under any Christian doctrine that requires non-christians die.
Why would I apologize for a lie in someones head?
Igel
(35,309 posts)Make sure it's one that defines itself that way. Having you define them is nicely pointless and arrogant beyond belief. These things are best left to the people involved.
I'd like to find the "Council on American Christian Relations." There
The large group saying that there is only one Xian religion and which, when something like a Xian kills somebody denies that he was ever a Xian. There was a World Council of Churches--I assume it still exists, but it wasn't popular in many quarters and much of its work was ignored by most people in the trenches.
So you really won't find many like that. Why? Because we have a long-standing tradition of denying that other Xian groups "are part of us." They're Xian, sure, but because they say they are. Everybody self-defines, and when push comes to shove the Baptists don't recognize the Pope's authority, and he doesn't recognize the authority of the Episcopal council that rendered a verdict on gay marriage a few years ago. When the Puritans left England, it wasn't because they felt a deep kinship with their fellow Xians in England.
In other words, we have different confessions. We know that there are different confessions. Our history is built on having different confessions. And when a member of one group does something, we don't expect the Pope to apologize for what a Jehovah's Witness does, nor for the Mormons to apologize for what a Southern Baptist does. Any more than the Catholics felt a deep kinship with the Huguenots.
There's a double standard because there are two quite distinct, quite different situations and contexts.
But as soon as there's a Muslim-related incident, there's a rally-round-the-Qur'aan moment where it's Islam that's under attack, a singular, unitary Islam. In fact, one of the problems that many Muslims have with the Salafists isn't that they're Salafi but that they're takfiri. They go around calling other Muslims "kafir" or "infidels."
It's squirrelly with Shi'ites and Sunnis and the cross-cutting Sufis. They fight and kill each other, but as soon as there's an outside threat again pull together to say they're in unison. There are different schools of fiqh or interpretation in Sunni Islam. There's the Shi'ite/Sunni split. There's traditional versus mystical. But there's one Islam, and when a Sunni bombs a Sufi shrine, when a Shi'ite attacks a Sunni, the newspapers still say, "We're all one faith."
But to the extent that they have to decry people like Farook as "not having a religion" instead of being part of some oddball hate-filled sect of Islam--a dodge that doesn't seem to work very well when in most cases the dorks doing the killing say they're doing it for Islam--they feed the meme. There's one Islam; you're Muslim or you're not-Muslim. Since Xians self-define, it's self-defeating to say that a self-defined Muslim "has no religion", just as it's self-defeating to after the fact say that the killer is kufr. You're takfiri or you're not, saying "we can't say somebody's not a Muslim" until he does something that brings shame to your religion makes you look like you're lying or just suddenly a convenient truth only after it's inconvenient to stick with the former truth.
I still vaguely consider myself Xian. The Pope? He'd have problems thinking of me as Xian. We have sufficiently different ideas of God and Jesus that apart from a few surface similarities, they're distinct deities. His Jesus was resurrected on a different day, commanded different things. It's like confusing MLK and MLK Jr. because they have the same name--they're just that different.
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)Were you here during the PP shooting?
To recap:
Racist, sexist Christian male kills at PP clinic. All Christianity is to blame and so are the Republicans and the NRA and they have to own this. That is the mild version.
Two Muslims kill 14 people, we must wait, we must pray with the Muslims as they might face a backlash and best of all, we must wait until all facts are in.
Bottom line, according to the continued Democratic Underground bleating, is that America is racist and if you don't agree, you are racist and best check your white privilege.
I'm sure the people in the middle would never notice this hypocrisy.