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Timmy5835

(373 posts)
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 06:13 PM Dec 2015

Why Two Standards??

I was pondering the other day, in light of the massacre in San Bernardino, their were many calls for the Muslim community to offer some sort of statement of regret or apology for the actions of the two shooters. This got me to thinking, when Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City nobody demanded an apology from a representative of the White-Christian community. Why should our Muslim brothers and sisters be required to publicly renounce San Bernardino when White-Christians at Oklahoma City got a pass? Perhaps it's time we quit trying to lay blame and instead seek answers to our differences as a peoples. We now know conclusively that race does not exist. Like it or not we are all one people, don't you think it's about time we starting acting like one?

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Why Two Standards?? (Original Post) Timmy5835 Dec 2015 OP
Sadly the answer is we are a racist country. randys1 Dec 2015 #1
... Electric Monk Dec 2015 #2
yep ... napkinz Dec 2015 #5
Sorry....it ain't gonna work.....get off of "The Narrative". nt clarice Dec 2015 #16
McVeigh linuxman Dec 2015 #3
That is true. hifiguy Dec 2015 #22
Thread closed...but no one here will accept that. ileus Dec 2015 #25
Republicans can't fathom that white Christian males can be radicalized by propaganda ... napkinz Dec 2015 #4
Yes...but what about the San Bernardino massacre? nt clarice Dec 2015 #17
Because of what occurred this Wed. we forget last Friday's terrorism victims? countryjake Dec 2015 #27
good point ... napkinz Dec 2015 #6
Until it bites you right on the ass. nt clarice Dec 2015 #18
and every time they DO do the damn-gracious thing and denounce it, MisterP Dec 2015 #7
The answer to your question is Bigotry... countryjake Dec 2015 #8
what's the difference ... napkinz Dec 2015 #9
Thanks, napkinz, for all of the gifs you've provided in this thread! countryjake Dec 2015 #10
you're welcome countryjake napkinz Dec 2015 #11
Republicans only recognize acts of terror carried out by followers of radical Islam. They refuse to napkinz Dec 2015 #12
+ a million recommendations! countryjake Dec 2015 #15
I coined CSUS to describe radical Christianist terrorists meow2u3 Dec 2015 #19
Christis, Christianists, Tealiban ... they all work napkinz Dec 2015 #24
Just a suggestion meow2u3 Dec 2015 #26
Do you post solely in memes? melman Dec 2015 #20
... napkinz Dec 2015 #21
This white guy can answer that question ... JoePhilly Dec 2015 #13
Yes,,I think it is time they did. nt clarice Dec 2015 #14
Was McVeigh killing in the name of Christianity? ileus Dec 2015 #23
Point to the "White-Christian Community". Igel Dec 2015 #28
Were ryan_cats Dec 2015 #29
Thank you. 840high Dec 2015 #30

randys1

(16,286 posts)
1. Sadly the answer is we are a racist country.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 06:20 PM
Dec 2015

Xenophobic, etc.

Now I think all religion causes more harm than good and I despise a religion that makes Women second class citizens.

But I also despise a religion that teaches all Gays should die, and many xtians do just that.

So, like I say, all religion, bad.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
3. McVeigh
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 06:22 PM
Dec 2015

Wasn't motivated by Christian ideology.

He was an anti government and white supremacist type, but Christianity was never a part of his motivation.

napkinz

(17,199 posts)
4. Republicans can't fathom that white Christian males can be radicalized by propaganda ...
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 06:23 PM
Dec 2015
Robert Dear’s deadly Planned Parenthood attack was act of terrorism, even if conservatives refuse to admit it

December 1, 2015
BY SHAUN KING

Less than 48 hours after Robert Lewis Dear shot 11 people, killing a police officer, a young mother and an Iraq war veteran at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Republican congressman Michael McCaul started making irrational and unfounded excuses for the shooter. “I don't think it would fall under quite the definition of domestic terrorism,” said McCaul, Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, during an interview on ABC News’ “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.” “It's a tragedy. It’s, I think, a mental health crisis.”

-snip-

Are we actually supposed to believe that he randomly or accidentally targeted a Planned Parenthood clinic? Are we supposed to believe that it was only his poor mental health condition that caused him to choose such a place to cause murder and mayhem?

Early facts suggest it was far more nefarious and was indeed a form of domestic terrorism. According to NBC News, in his early interviews Dear referenced Planned Parenthood selling "baby parts" as part of his rationale for the attack. Just three months ago, conservative propaganda videos about Planned Parenthood went viral. They were clearly seen by Dear and impacted him deeply. Could it be that McCaul isn't quick to call Dear a terrorist because he, himself, is so publicly opposed to Planned Parenthood?

What's wild is that conservatives regularly speak about how ISIS uses propaganda videos to influence impressionable minds all over the world. They know that the purpose of those propaganda videos is to incite people to join their cause. Yet, somehow, conservatives think none of the steps that lead to terrorism abroad produce terrorists here.

read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-colo-planned-parenthood-shooting-terrorist-attack-article-1.2451292

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
27. Because of what occurred this Wed. we forget last Friday's terrorism victims?
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 08:21 PM
Dec 2015
Planned Parenthood shooting victims include Iraq vet who tried to save others ~ 30 November 2015
Family and friends mourn Ke’Arre Stewart, Jennifer Markovsky and officer Garrett Swasey in wake of shooting at Colorado Springs facility on Friday

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/30/victims-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-shooting

The victims of the shooting at a Planned Parenthood facility in Colorado Springs that left three people dead and nine wounded were preliminarily identified by local authorities on Sunday.

Two civilians – a mother of two and an Iraq war veteran – and one police officer were killed in the attack, for which suspect Robert Lewis Dear, 57, was taken into custody. Dear is scheduled to appear in court on Monday to be advised of the charges that could be filed against him...

~snip~

Jennifer Markovsky, a 35-year-old Hawaii-born resident of Colorado Springs, was killed while accompanying a friend during an appointment at the clinic. Her friend was shot in the hand.

~snip~

The second victim, Iraq war veteran Ke’Arre Stewart, a 29-year-old father of two, ran back inside the clinic after being shot to warn those inside to take cover, his brother Leyonte Chandler told NBC News. Stewart had stepped outside to get better cellphone service when he was shot.

~snip~

Also killed in the attack was Garrett Swasey, a police officer for the University of Colorado-Colorado Springs , who was the first victim identified after the Friday shooting. Swasey, 44, left behind a wife and two children. He was at the university when he was called to assist with the active shooter situation.


(bolding within the article is mine)

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
7. and every time they DO do the damn-gracious thing and denounce it,
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 06:43 PM
Dec 2015

that just makes it "sound" as though they have some role to declaim, that they're in some part responsible

it's a classic ploy, get people on the defensive: if CAIR took the path of fighting back and saying "WTF are you doing asking US about these human dumpster-fires?" then that gets criticized; if someone says "you must hate Marshall Islanders" and the target says "but I DON'T hate the Marshallese" then again it puts all the onus on the defender, to make them seem desperate

countryjake

(8,554 posts)
10. Thanks, napkinz, for all of the gifs you've provided in this thread!
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:17 PM
Dec 2015

They are all so incredibly relevant today.

napkinz

(17,199 posts)
12. Republicans only recognize acts of terror carried out by followers of radical Islam. They refuse to
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:24 PM
Dec 2015

acknowledge acts of terror carried out by followers of radical Christianity (because it's their own people who are carrying out those acts).








meow2u3

(24,764 posts)
19. I coined CSUS to describe radical Christianist terrorists
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:48 PM
Dec 2015

It's pronounced "cease you ess (implies "cease US&quot and that's exactly what CSUS wants to do to the country--put an end to the United States and replace it with a Christian version of Iran.

If Daesh wants to call itself ISIS, why not describe the Christianist version?

meow2u3

(24,764 posts)
26. Just a suggestion
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 08:07 PM
Dec 2015

Especially with the allusion to ISIS, I think CSUS befits these far-right, blasphemous, phony Christians.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
13. This white guy can answer that question ...
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:37 PM
Dec 2015

Once a year, I get together with a bunch of guys I grew up with. All white. We do a golf weekend.

First ... during this weekend, I'll hear the N word more times then I will the rest of the year. A couple of these guys, not all, are definitely racists, although they do not think they are.

Second ... when we get together, we talk about other guys we knew "way back in high school".

Most of those guys we talk about are also white (we lived in a white area). And we usually end up talking about bad thing that have happened, like how "Jack" lost his job because he drinks too much, beats his wife, and has multiple DUIs. Jack has screwed up his life. Sad. Bad Jack bad.

And if we talk about a black guy that we knew back then, or more likely a black guy one of use has worked with more recently ... and THAT GUY lost his job because he drinks too much, beats his wife, and has multiple DUIs ... the discussion is about how that black guy is like "them". Its what "they do". Bad blacks bad.

A white guy screws up ... HE screwed up.

A black guy (or other minority) screws up ... THEY ALL screwed up.

I pointed this out to my friends ... they did not appreciate it. But I also know, they know I'm right. The idea that some one else's screw up being applied to them makes them mad. Duh.

So why am I still friends with some of these guys? Because back when we grew up (just above poor in Philly), our friendships (much of them sports related) kept us from ending up on drugs, in jail, or dead. We helped each other survive, and ensured that none of us made some single mistake that ruins your life.

Having said that ... some 30ish years later ... there are a few of them that I don't talk to except on these golf trips.

And if not for our shared pasts growing up and survivingin Philly, I'd never take those few on as friends now.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
23. Was McVeigh killing in the name of Christianity?
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 07:54 PM
Dec 2015

Was McVeigh even a christian? Did he claim to be one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh


In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying himself as agnostic.





Just because he was white doesn't mean he was a Christian, and he sure wasn't operating under any Christian doctrine that requires non-christians die.

Why would I apologize for a lie in someones head?

Igel

(35,309 posts)
28. Point to the "White-Christian Community".
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 08:27 PM
Dec 2015

Make sure it's one that defines itself that way. Having you define them is nicely pointless and arrogant beyond belief. These things are best left to the people involved.

I'd like to find the "Council on American Christian Relations." There

The large group saying that there is only one Xian religion and which, when something like a Xian kills somebody denies that he was ever a Xian. There was a World Council of Churches--I assume it still exists, but it wasn't popular in many quarters and much of its work was ignored by most people in the trenches.

So you really won't find many like that. Why? Because we have a long-standing tradition of denying that other Xian groups "are part of us." They're Xian, sure, but because they say they are. Everybody self-defines, and when push comes to shove the Baptists don't recognize the Pope's authority, and he doesn't recognize the authority of the Episcopal council that rendered a verdict on gay marriage a few years ago. When the Puritans left England, it wasn't because they felt a deep kinship with their fellow Xians in England.

In other words, we have different confessions. We know that there are different confessions. Our history is built on having different confessions. And when a member of one group does something, we don't expect the Pope to apologize for what a Jehovah's Witness does, nor for the Mormons to apologize for what a Southern Baptist does. Any more than the Catholics felt a deep kinship with the Huguenots.

There's a double standard because there are two quite distinct, quite different situations and contexts.

But as soon as there's a Muslim-related incident, there's a rally-round-the-Qur'aan moment where it's Islam that's under attack, a singular, unitary Islam. In fact, one of the problems that many Muslims have with the Salafists isn't that they're Salafi but that they're takfiri. They go around calling other Muslims "kafir" or "infidels."

It's squirrelly with Shi'ites and Sunnis and the cross-cutting Sufis. They fight and kill each other, but as soon as there's an outside threat again pull together to say they're in unison. There are different schools of fiqh or interpretation in Sunni Islam. There's the Shi'ite/Sunni split. There's traditional versus mystical. But there's one Islam, and when a Sunni bombs a Sufi shrine, when a Shi'ite attacks a Sunni, the newspapers still say, "We're all one faith."

But to the extent that they have to decry people like Farook as "not having a religion" instead of being part of some oddball hate-filled sect of Islam--a dodge that doesn't seem to work very well when in most cases the dorks doing the killing say they're doing it for Islam--they feed the meme. There's one Islam; you're Muslim or you're not-Muslim. Since Xians self-define, it's self-defeating to say that a self-defined Muslim "has no religion", just as it's self-defeating to after the fact say that the killer is kufr. You're takfiri or you're not, saying "we can't say somebody's not a Muslim" until he does something that brings shame to your religion makes you look like you're lying or just suddenly a convenient truth only after it's inconvenient to stick with the former truth.

I still vaguely consider myself Xian. The Pope? He'd have problems thinking of me as Xian. We have sufficiently different ideas of God and Jesus that apart from a few surface similarities, they're distinct deities. His Jesus was resurrected on a different day, commanded different things. It's like confusing MLK and MLK Jr. because they have the same name--they're just that different.

ryan_cats

(2,061 posts)
29. Were
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 08:34 PM
Dec 2015

Were you here during the PP shooting?

To recap:
Racist, sexist Christian male kills at PP clinic. All Christianity is to blame and so are the Republicans and the NRA and they have to own this. That is the mild version.

Two Muslims kill 14 people, we must wait, we must pray with the Muslims as they might face a backlash and best of all, we must wait until all facts are in.

Bottom line, according to the continued Democratic Underground bleating, is that America is racist and if you don't agree, you are racist and best check your white privilege.

I'm sure the people in the middle would never notice this hypocrisy.

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