Our invasions and occupations created Daesh (ISIS)

[another_liberal]

The following is an interview with two-tour Iraq war veteran, Vincent Emanuele. He offers an eloquent argument against any future American imperialistic adventures of the kind he helped conduct as a Marine in Iraq. The costs, he explains, are far too high for both American foreign policy and the American people. An excellent audio version of this interview is linked in the article.

U.S. Marines in Western Iraq (AFP)


Former US Marine: 'Death and Destruction We Caused in Iraq Created Daesh'


The destruction caused by the US during its military intervention in Iraq was doomed to result in the rise of terrorism all over the world. Tortures and killings of innocent people expectedly led to a "blow-back" in the face of Daesh and other radical groups, former US marine Vincent Emanuele told Sputnik. The veteran confessed that US invasion of Iraq and actions of American soldiers in the country have led to the creation of the jihadist group. According to the former soldier, many of those who were deployed in Iraq ten years ago understood that the US military operation would have horrific consequences for the whole world.

"The death and destruction we've caused the people of Iraq would not go silently. [We knew] that there would be a response — and it would be a violent response — and that the more and more we stayed there, the more people we tortured, the more people we killed, the more innocent people, whose lives we destroyed, would eventually come back in the form of blow-back, unintended consequences and terrorism," Emanuele said.

Emanuele believes that the activities of Daesh terrorists are a logical outcome of the US intervention in the Middle East. Anyone whose relatives were tortured and killed would most likely respond to the violent actions of an aggressor in the same way, he argued.

"What would you do if you are in the position of Iraqi people being treated like this: having your mother slapped around, having your father tortured and killed, having your brother run over by a Humvee. How would you respond to that? " he asked, adding that this is exactly the way how such organizations as Daesh are created.

(snip)

Read more, and hear audio version, at: http://sputniknews.com/us/20151223/1032206074/former-us-marine-death-destruction-iraq-daesh.html

[CJCRANE]

1. That was just the starting point.

There have been other actions since then that have directly and indirectly nurtured this monster into being.

[another_liberal]

12. Greed, arrogance . . .

And out-of-control militarism have joined forces. We really have to stop them.

[newfie11]

2. Oh hell yes!

But the MIC Pukes must make more and more money!!!

May they rest in hell!!!!

[tecelote]

5. Hell Yes!

Take the profits out of our wars and they will end tomorrow.

We have a solution that perpetuates the problem.

It seems intentional since all we hear now is that regime change is more important than universal healthcare, jobs, etc.

If we can afford regime change, we damn well better be able to take care of our veterans!

[Chemisse]

3. It's so easy to just think we are good and they are bad.

It's also satisfying to people, as though they are rooting for their favorite football team.

It's harder to put yourself in their shoes and try and understand why this is happening. This anger doesn't come from some internal flaw or inherent evil, as so many would like to think. It is simply born through circumstances, such as described by this soldier. In fact, the same people who are the most anti-Muslim would be the most anti-American right now if they happened to have been born in Iraq or Syria.

So what do we do? In my opinion, just get the fuck out of the Middle East and let them solve their own problems in whatever way they wish. We are there because they are a threat to us, you say? Well, they are only a threat to us because we are there.

[davidn3600]

6. It really isn't that simple anymore

We really didn't create ISIS. The radicalism was always there. But many of the leaders like Saddam Hussein kept it under control. Even to Saddam, these people were crazy. So his government abused them and killed them, or imprisoned their families to keep it under control. Assad in Syria and the Saudis did the same thing. When we removed Saddam and failed to replace him with an adequate government, the intermediate chaos and anarchy allowed groups like ISIS to form and organize. So we didn't cause ISIS ideology, we only ended up providing an environment for it to establish itself. Today, the Iraqi government is too weak and corrupt to regain control. And Assad is Syria is fighting a Civil War. So ISIS is able to expand.

Leaving is unfortunately not going to work with ISIS. ISIS's ultimate goal is to create a global Islamic Caliphate. A transnational empire that does not recognize borders. What they want is a global Taliban-like government that enforces strict teachings of Islam and Sharia Law. They are going to continue to commit terrorism and spread propaganda whether we are in the mid-east or not. They will not suddenly leave us alone if we pull out.

[Chemisse]

8. Sadly, it is a complex problem, as you point out.

We all want a simple answer, whether it's 'bomb them' or 'get out of there'. But it's such a kettle of interacting conflicts, it's hard to know what the effect of any action/inaction will bring.

[CJCRANE]

17. It is that simple. We tortured them then directly funded the groups that rose in opposition to us.

And our allies are the main supporters of these groups.

It isn't a secret anymore the world knows it.

DU is still in somewhat of a bubble in regard to this.

[another_liberal]

13. Love the last sentences in your comment . . .

Well said.

[rhett o rick]

4. Those that supported the invasion of Iraq should be held accountable. nm

[another_liberal]

14. So true . . .

More than a few of them should be in prison.

Instead, far too many are still in positions of influence in our government and the mass media.

[Turbineguy]

7. This idea is a form of American exceptionalism.

The people who run IS and join it have a free will. There is no need for them to do what they are doing other than their own desires.

[another_liberal]

19. Can we really stand in judgement . . .

Of the actions of a young man who grew up seeing his home devastated, his father and brothers imprisoned, his mother humiliated, his sisters raped, and his cousins murdered by the dozens, all to satisfy some sick need for violence and destruction on the part of men like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney?

As Americans, aren't we guilty of not doing more to stop what we knew was a criminal act by our government? How can one say we don't share the blame for what has happened to Iraq? Didn't our taxes pay for it all?

[JEB]

21. Kind of a "trickle down" guilt.

The shame of what "we" have done will be with us for at least a generation. Many can't face their shared guilt and live lives of denial and lies.

[Egnever]

23. While I am sure there is some truth to that

I think it is an oversimplification of what Daesh is and what motivates them.

[another_liberal]

24. Or maybe . . .

It is just the simple truth.

[Egnever]

25. Hardly

Do you have any idea what they do in the areas they control? Do you have any understanding at all of their goals?

Or do you just see them as terrorists getting revenge?

They have an end game in mind and it really has little or nothing to do with America other than we should submit to them along with the rest of the world.

[FrodosPet]

9. Our invasions HELPED create Daesh

The rise of jihadist Islam was inevitable. Saddam would have eventually died, his sons would not have been able to keep Iraq together.

What BushCo did was speed up an already developing process.

So the question becomes, what do we do next?

I guess all we can really do is get out of the Middle East and North Africa. Militarily, politically, economically, culturally. They stay on their side of the world, we stay on ours.

In this process, should we abandon Israel?

[CJCRANE]

18. Our allies are directly supporting these extremist groups.

It isn't like they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps as some would have us believe.

[yellerpup]

10. The logical outcome is suicidal rage.

We should admit what was really done and prosecute those who promoted it as war criminals. Maybe at that point they would stop killing and start talking.

[another_liberal]

15. Sounds worth a try . . .

What we are doing (and have been doing for a decade or more) is clearly not working.

[KingCharlemagne]

20. Each day that Bush and his Junta walk around as free men and women makes a gross mockery

of any principle such as 'universal justice.'

Bush's smirks and Cheney's ssneers represent the microcosm of this gross mockery, as does 'look forward, not backward.'

[raouldukelives]

11. When I first came to this website it was Underground.

I felt, because mainstream Democrats were banging the war drums and there wasn't a place for those of us opposed to war solely for profit.

Now, some are trying to whitewash what once made many dems feel under into above.

No more. No more lies. No more killing for wealth. Not in my name.

[another_liberal]

16. Hear! Hear!

Not in my name either!

[Flying Squirrel]

22. Equal and opposite reaction

Or something like that. It should have been obvious from the start... Maybe it was, and they just didn't care because it just helps to build and maintain the MIC.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. America has mastered the art of throwing kerosene on fires and then playing the burn victim.

But...this time it will be different...or will it?

[killbotfactory]

27. It's worse than that

[Bradical79]

28. Whoops, I alerted on this thread by mistake!

Thought I had a different thread opened in my tab. I apologize to any confused jurors as my case will make no sense, lol.