This Oregon occupation has to end immediately.

[Lions_fan]

I'm tired of the jokes about snacks, underwear, yee-hawdists. It was funny the first two days or so but now it's serious. We all know that if these guys were black, Muslim, Native, ect this wouldn't be going on. But we're passed that also. The government is allowing these guys to control the narrative. It seems to be the attitude of the government that as long as they're out in the wilderness and no-one is being harmed they'll wait them out. But more harm is being done than they realize. They're holding daily press conferences getting their side of the story out. People are starting to believe their bullshit and it's being used as a recruitment tool. I've been watching videos and reading forums run by militant groups and people are asking where do they sign up to join. They have people believing the Hammonds were tried under double jeopardy. That's bullshit! Yet nobody from the government is coming out countering their lies. The silence from our government is legitimizing these whackos.

I've had the past week off work so I've been watching this very closely. This siege may look ill prepared but it isn't. They've been planning this since at least Dec 15th. That's when Ammon Bundy had a meeting in Harney County and established the Harney County Committee of Safety along with his another militia member who lives in Harney County. They way they set this up was smooth. There was only about 40 people there and some weren't even from Harney County. Bundy suggested they set up a Safety Committee and he had his buddy from Harney County created it. Their objective is to overrule the democratically elected government of Harney County. This is a shadow government created by outsiders. The media is reporting on this group like they're a legitimate group. They even have a website http://www.hccommitteeofsafety.org/ which is registered to Bundy. You can't claim to represent the people of Harney County when less than 0.001% of the people were there to form it.

Here is that meeting

Here is a resident trying to explain to him why this isn't right and he admits he doesn't even know the structure of Oregon government

Here he is proposing the committee

?t=51m11s

Here he is calling for a vote to form the committee

?t=54m41s

Now look at the news articles reporting on this group as if it's legitimate

Another tactic they're using is posing as if they're government. They dress in U.S. military garb. They use U.S. military and government lingo, "stand down", "security perimeter", "committee of safety", "articles of resolution", they've replaced the refuge sign with one that says Harney County Resource Center or some bullshit to make it sound official. Everything they're doing is to make it look as if they're a legitimate organization and it's working.

But the last straw for me was yesterday. The 3%'s from Idaho pulled heavily armed in a convoy of 18 vehicles. How are more heavily armed groups being allowed to enter the area? This group is so extreme they scared the Bundy's who asked them to leave. But when they left they pulled up on the FBI heavily armed 18 cars deep. I saw this video posted yesterday in here and the dismissive comments pissed me off. People were complaining about the man yelling in the background. That's Pete Santilli, a right wing militia propaganda reporter who's doing live streams from the compound and daily reports from the area. I've seen his youtube subscriptions increase from 30,000 to over 50,000 just this week. These people are not to be taken lightly. Their message is getting out there. So the 3%'ers roll up on the FBI WITH GUNS and not a single agent draws their weapon or searched them. One of them told them to leave and the guy from the 3%'ers told him it's not going down like that and took over the meeting. They talked to the FBI and handed them their bullshit "Articles of Resolution" and exchanged business cards. This made them look like a legitimate organization. Then they left the FBI and went to the County courthouse and demanded to speak to the Sheriff. They had armed men posted on the roads that led to the courthouse to "establish a security perimeter". The Sheriff came out and engaged these people. Pleasantries were exchanged and handshakes and hugs. The Sheriff even said that he respects them. They also handed him their bullshit "Articles of Resolution". Once again, they walk away looking like a legitimate group. Now they're bragging about what they accomplished yesterday. link:

More recruits for them!

We may have gotten to the point where it's to late for the government to raid the place. People are starting to sympathize with these people and by letting them control the narrative. These groups feel emboldened. The guy from the 3%er's told the FBI there's a more extreme group headed there. I guess if the government wasn't doing anything and I wanted to get my whacko groups name out there I would go too. This isn't funny anymore and the inaction by the government is making this country less safe. This occupation must end immediately!

[Old Codger]

1. This is beyond

Anything sane at all, the government won't hesitate to pat search a 10 year old who forgot something in her backpack, or to shoot someone who "made a move toward his waist" but the idiots can do anything they please and the government will probably deliver their snacks and socks to them

[L. Coyote]

5. OFCS, how are we supposed to take you seriously? "the idiots can do anything they please

Yeah, "the idiots can do anything they please and the government will probably deliver their snacks and socks to them" if they stay in their cells! Just you wait.

And I mean just that, "WAIT" and let the pros do their jobs as they know best. Of course, it hardly matters what someone posts online, what matters is what the people you insult are doing at their difficult jobs. We should be thanking them.

[Lions_fan]

7. The pro's will do their jobs.

Yea the pro's will do their job. And why we're waiting on them to do their jobs they've already recruited thousands more to take their place and those thousands will look at them as martyr's. This country is full of young white males who feel their privilege is being taken away by the government. They're ripe for the picking

[L. Coyote]

9. I'm not paranoid about this. The sky is not falling. This is Oregon!!

#grammar ... martyrs ...while ...

" young white males who feel their privilege is being taken away by the government"

Show me one!

[Tipperary]

51. I have yet to see a "young" white male yet.

White and male for sure, but middle age seems to be the average here.

[Rex]

27. And pointing that out drives people crazy!

Glad I don't live in a world so narrow, that I have to make EXCUSES for RWING domestic terrorists...that must be a shit world to live in.

[L. Coyote]

2. Harney Co. Committee Of Safety Asks Occupiers To Leave in "a peaceful, honorable fashion"

Harney Co. Committee Of Safety Asks Occupiers To Leave in "a peaceful, honorable fashion"

.......[center]

The Chair of Harney County for the Oregon Republican Party is one Tim Smith, vocal supporter of the Hammonds.


And a certain Tim Smith is a member of the Harney County Committee of Safety (HCCS).


Which has a web site and the domain is owned/registered to Ammon Bundy at an address in Phoenix, AZ.


[/center]

Quoting from Ammon Bundy's Harney Co. CS webpage:

The primary duty and responsibility of the Committee of Safety is to coordinate the people in their own safety. This is done through correspondence, preparedness and defense. ....

(You have to wonder if this part will be in the Republican platform this year.)

Prior to the Revolutionary War, Committees of Safety existed in the frontier or wilderness areas where the government did not provide any troops or other protection against Indian attacks. The community got together and built stockades, enrolled militia, commissioned officers, and set watches, all to secure the property and lives of the association members from threats from the savages.

It is the function of the Committee of Safety to call up able-body men and women to stand in defense of unalienable rights. The Committee of Safety is the governing body for the Militia and directs the Militia in its defensive actions.

So, here’s your pre-schism hierarchy I presume, given what’s posted online at Ammon Bundy’s Harney County website:
Oregon Republican Party > County Chair > Committee of Safety > Militia

We downloaded the website and screen captured the graphics before we posted this online with other media the other day. ................

[Voice for Peace]

33. Im confused about this

But it sounds important. Have severe limit on internet, cant see video or get to most links)

[handmade34]

3. !!!

[Lions_fan]

4. While we joked about snacks they've garnered enough sympathy for people to bring them

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

[L. Coyote]

6. They have been losing sympathy and supporters. Yes, some things were brought in, food, wood.

Even hay for horses. Occupy Wall Street operated kitchens too, I was there and saw it myself. People eat.

[Lions_fan]

10. Ok if that's what you think

Just remember. Everybody isn't as smart as you.

[Rex]

17. Plus unlike the crushing riot police at OWS sites, these RWing assholes are allowed

to come and go as the please! Watching people flop all over themselves with lame excuses for REPUBLICANS is so sadly predictable...it is like clock work.

[saltpoint]

8. The polling I've seen so far on

this insurrection suggests that a majority percentage, U.S. respondents did not support these groups, did not support what they were doing, or why they are doing it.

They are in violation of law and have intruded upon property that does not belong to them. I don't think any of us are suggesting that this is not serious business.

But the groups are promoting themselves as beleaguered victims of the federal government. Ammon Bundy explained that Jesus himself was displeased with the Hammonds' verdict. Their first official act as a militia was to put out a call for snacks.

We're letting the cement heads have it, and humor is one of the things in our arsenal.

[L. Coyote]

13. Exactly, the meme of the day nailed it, from butt of rifle to butt of jokes in a flash.

I hope they are enjoying being the laughing stock of the world, and I'm certain the locals are not enjoying it one iota, so they are now also reviled by the very people they use to rationalize their crimes. It is like: [center]

[saltpoint]

15. Yes. It's difficult to see the

"militia" groups emerging victorious in this insurrection.

Their decision to occupy this sanctuary is a taunt to the authority of the federal government but also a flip of the bird to the people of Oregon. It's an abdication of their citizenship and it mocks many others who try to uphold community.

Armed defiant little pissants.

[Bettie]

39. They emerge victorious

when they can do this over and over without any consequences.

This is the second time, there will be more.

[saltpoint]

45. Agree that consequences are more than

called for in these incidents.

This one isn't over yet.

[Lions_fan]

14. Ok

Ok. Maybe I have a different view on the situation because I've been reading to much about it. I see most of the people mocking them but when I visit their sites I see them using this to recruit and it's working. Posting pictures of them shaking hands with the Sheriff. Bragging about holding meetings with the FBI, while armed. Impressionable people are being recruited because the government has allowed these groups to look legit. Saw a video of a 36 year old man at the with the constitution in his hand saying he's never read it before but now he's studying it and thinking about joining a militia. This was on the youtube channel of a militia member. I go back to work tomorrow so I'll hide my head in my work and try not to put to much into what I'm seeing.

[saltpoint]

18. Well don't you take any blame for the

"militia" men's poor judgment.

They made a direct and conscious decision to shove their heads deep into their assholes, and they proceeded to do just that.

I grant that there will be a few people who join up because it offers them an instant community. Where is somebody on the cosmic scale when the esteem of domestic terrorists matters more to them than their responsibility as members of a family or as citizens of a nation?

It's pathetic. I agree with you that it could potentially be dangerous.

I think the sheriffs of several surrounding counties should hold a press conference to condemn the occupation. Have no idea what these sheriffs' politics are. But the "militias" seem willing to talk only with a sheriff. It would be a strategic blow for the sheriff to denounce their actions.

[Hoyt]

11. Worse than the jokes, we have some gunners here who actually think they should be left alone, noting

that the building is not used and their guns are legal. But, whatya expect.

[Rex]

20. I expect them to be conditional when it comes to laws, like Ted Cruz.

They have zero credibility on this site.

[SwankyXomb]

42. They make up for it by aggressively swarming posters who disagree with them

Nothing but a bunch of Blue Tarp Democrats, and much like the Blue Dogs, we don't really need them.

[Rex]

44. Their views too closely aligned with the OR milita group imo.

All it takes is a little rattling of the chains and they are quick to yell about the 'gun grabbers'. I guess they forget what site and party they belong to. There are no 'gun grabbers' here, that is RWing talking points to the nth degree.

[SwankyXomb]

46. Mostly white, mostly male, right-wing fundamentalists with lots of guns

Why, if they weren't needed here to keep up their vigils at DU against anyone not completely capitulating to their warped misinterpretation of the Second Amendment, they'd certainly be standing shoulder to shoulder with their kindred souls in Oregon.

[steve2470]

12. I'm really torn about this

Last edited Sun Jan 10, 2016, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)

On the one hand, I wanted them out and in jail days ago. They broke federal law, and they should be in jail and tried for it. They did it with weapons, which is even worse.

On the other hand, I don't want anyone (especially law enforcement) suffering injuries or deaths because of these idiots. I have no doubt that they will shoot to kill law enforcement.

I'm confident law enforcement has all the details on how and when to proceed as safely as humanly possible. For now I'll trust law enforcement's judgment. Unfortunately, I think eventually another Ruby Ridge will occur, because these like-minded fools want that.

[L. Coyote]

22. They know full well what the penalties are

and seem to be acting to avoid felonies. But some obvious felonies are already committed.

ORS 161.610
Enhanced penalty for use of firearm during commission of felony

..... Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.605 (Maximum prison terms for felonies) or 137.010 (Duty of court to ascertain and impose punishment) (3) and except as otherwise provided in subsection (6) of this section, if a defendant is convicted of a felony having as an element the defendants use or threatened use of a firearm during the commission of the crime, the court shall impose at least the minimum term of imprisonment as provided in subsection (4) of this section. Except as provided in ORS 144.122 (Advancing initial release date) and 144.126 (Advancing release date of prisoner with severe medical condition including terminal illness or who is elderly and permanently incapacitated) and subsection (5) of this section, in no case shall any person punishable under this section become eligible for work release, parole, temporary leave or terminal leave until the minimum term of imprisonment is served, less a period of time equivalent to any reduction of imprisonment granted for good time served or time credits earned under ORS 421.121 (Reduction in term of incarceration), nor shall the execution of the sentence imposed upon such person be suspended by the court.

(4) The minimum terms of imprisonment for felonies having as an element the defendants use or threatened use of a firearm in the commission of the crime shall be as follows:

(a) Except as provided in subsection (5) of this section, upon the first conviction for such felony, five years, except that if the firearm is a machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or is equipped with a firearms silencer, the term of imprisonment shall be 10 years.

.... felony crime of motor vehicle theft ... person must serve the full sentence and may not have the sentence reduced for any reason.
... requires that persons convicted of the following crimes serve at least the following sentences ... burglary of a residence ... 36 months.

[steve2470]

26. yes, also federal felonies nt

[L. Coyote]

30. The sentences can really add up too! Especially with all the mandatory minimum laws.

That without terrorism law which also applies, thanks to drug laws about weapons and crime.

[steve2470]

32. I really really hope they are rounded up eventually and charged

I can understand, with the last incident in Nevada and this incident, the whole "wait them out" approach. However, the other part of that approach, as we all know, is to arrest them! If they are not arrested this time, I think they will grow even bolder and take over some federal property closer to populated areas or more high value.

Throw the book at them! There's plenty in the books to do it this time (and there was last time too). Thanks for the research!

[Lions_fan]

31. I want a peaceful resolution

I don't want the FBI to storm them and have a shoot out but they could start by not allowing them to hold daily press conferences. Not allowing people to come and go as they please. The Bundy's left the compound and went to church today. I'm starting to wonder if they broke any laws or not. They claim they're waiting them out but these folks are moving around like they own the place.

[steve2470]

34. I agree, in principle

I'm thinking the feds and local LEO's have not done that yet because they fear it will trigger a violent incident, no matter what the LEO's/feds do and no matter how calmly it's handled.

As I said in my other post, I think another Ruby Ridge will happen eventually, die martyrs for the cause kind of thinking. Who knows, it might even happen in Oregon before it's all over.

[Nevernose]

49. Your desires are mutually exclusive

These but jobs are armed and have threatened violence if LE interferes with them in any way. If LE tries to stop them from coming and going, or holding press conferences, there is every reason to believe that violence will ensue.

[Rex]

19. Gun humpers seem to like the situation.

Watching them make excuses for RWing domestic terrorists is amusing, thankfully it is nobody I talk to on a daily basis.

[Quixote1818]

21. The Safety Committe has turned against Bundy

Don't know if you knew that or not: http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/harney-county-group-asks-occupation-to-leave/

Don't get me wrong though, the Gov. may need to put the clamps down on this sooner rather than later.

[L. Coyote]

23. The FBI has jurisdiction, not OR gov. Albeit, they can be charged with crimes under Oregon law

Search Oregon Law

[L. Coyote]

24. Harney Co. Committee Of Safety Asks Occupiers To Leave in "a peaceful, honorable fashion"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7517682

see above also

[Rex]

28. If more violent and out of control terrorist groups show up, then what I wonder?

Was it such a good idea to let them assemble without any consequences? Big mistake imo.

[Lions_fan]

35. The safety committee is not a legitimate group

It's a group started by the Ammon Bundy. The saftey group also has to take a vote on their fake measure and these idiots appointed a group of 6 people so a 3-3 tie will make their fake measure obsolete. This group is a fake group and doesn't represent the people of Harney County. Only the government of Harney County represents the people of Harney County. I'm sorry but I get mad when people reference them, even if they did say they wanted Bundy to leave it doesn't matter because they're a fake group! When the Sheriff held a town hall the majority of the residents said they want Bundy to leave. That's the real representation of Harney County.

[Lions_fan]

25. More legitimacy

Oregon standoff: Roseburg state legislator ignores local warnings, visits protesters

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/oregon_standoff_roseburg_state.html

In the latest bizarre turn of events surrounding the ongoing armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge, an Oregon state legislator from outside Harney County arrived here Saturday with out-of-state elected officials in tow and met with the protesters.

Oregon Rep. Cliff Bentz, a Republican from Ontario, and Harney County Judge Steven E. Grasty said that they tried to warn state Rep. Dallas Heard against traveling to Burns. But Heard, a Republican from Roseburg, arrived anyway, they said, and brought officials elected to state office in Washington, Idaho and Nevada with him.

The outside elected officials told the militants that Harney County and FBI officials had put "great pressure" on them not to visit the refuge, Finicum said. The protesters communicated their grievances – including their view that the federal government should hand over public land to Harney County loggers and ranchers – to the elected officials.

"Many of them said the same things back to us. ... These are honorable elected officials," Finicum said.

Grasty did not mince words when describing Heard's actions.

"I find it really interesting that not only did law enforcement advise him not to go out there, [but] it seems to me that we now have a state representative who will not listen to local input," Grasty said. "And isn't that the same thing that our armed visitors are saying about the federal government? It's the same thing."

Heard called himself an "elected representative of the people."

"We represent all of Oregon," he said.

Heard declined to reveal the names of the out-of-state elected officials who joined him.

Grasty said at least one of the elected officials from outside Oregon was "clearly a Bundy supporter." Bundy, an Arizona businessman, is the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy.

"I said, 'Please, guys, you are no different than any other outside group coming in and trying to fix it,'" Grasty said. "I don't see that group as any different than the Bundys. I think they placed themselves in danger. ... Just their visit would encourage [the Bundys]."

Heard and the other elected officials were concerned about an armed assault on the protesters by law enforcement, he said.

"They were clearly told...there will not be any armed assault from law enforcement on that compound," Grasty said.

[Rex]

29. OF COURSE the GOP is totaly on their side and probably hopes for a violent standoff

so they can get extra votes this year using fear tactics...nevermind the fact it was THEIR OWN that started the entire thing.

Just more proof the GOP is a pathetic party full of terrorists and loons.

[Mojorabbit]

52. Good Lord. This is getting ridiculous! nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

36. It'll end when it ends. Between now and then it'll barely be newsworthy.

[Lions_fan]

37. Thanks Sheriff Ward and FBI. Now they're emboldened

After the Bundy's asked them to leave the refuge these bastards said they were only there to drop off their "Articles of Resolution" and would leave. But since the FBI and Sheriff Ward welcomed them with open arms they've decided to stay.

Oregon standoff tension mounts as so-called '3%' groups refuse to leave
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/10/oregon-standoff-three-percenter-groups

On Saturday, leaders of the militia group, which began its occupation a week previously, said the outside groups were unwelcome and unnecessary.

A day later, the new militias in town said they would stay until the occupation ended, raising further concerns about the potential for violence.

The leaders of the outside groups insist that they aim to act as mediators between the occupiers of the federal buildings, law enforcement and local residents – and say they will provide protection and security for all. They say they do not endorse the armed takeover of the refuge, by occupation leader Ammon Bundy, and want to ensure it does not end with a deadly shootout.

“We are hopeful for a resolution quickly – one that is mutually beneficial for all parties involved,” Brandon Curtiss, president of a group called 3% of Idaho, told the Guardian on Sunday morning. “We are trying to carry a role as a neutral party and a buffer zone.”

YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT!

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit that tracks hate groups, has labeled Curtiss and his Idaho group anti-government extremists. So-called “three percenter” groups across the country have faced criticisms for armed protests that advocate positions against immigrants, refugees and minorities.

The “three percenter” moniker alludes to the small percentage of colonials such groups claim fought in the American revolutionary war. About 376,000 people fought for the American army and militias, or about 15% of the 13 colonies’ 2.5 million people, although the standing size of forces was small at any given time.

Anti-government militia groups have grown by one-third in the last year, according to the SPLC.

Curtiss is also a co-founder of the Pacific Patriots Network, another group now stationed in Burns that has a history of controversial armed protests.

But people on here are telling me there isn't successful recruitment going on.

[Rex]

38. Well they are kinda freaking out and can say nothing but

"well gosh I think laws are conditional after all!" which is no surprise but I do wonder...why is it that of ALL the groups out there, authoritarians think laws are conditional? That the law only applies to every other group BUT them?

We should go ask Blue Tarp Man what he thinks!



"Dam I've been spotted! Better put my pecker up!"

[Lions_fan]

40. Who's representing the people of Harney County?

They have said they don't want the Bundy's or the 3%ers there. Their kids return to school tomorrow. None of these groups are from this area and they're terrorizing the people from this area.

[Rex]

41. Agree and since they come and go unhindered, their range is large.

The entire thing is a clusterfuck.

[backscatter712]

43. Here's my fear.

Today, it's Y'all Qaeda, Yokel Haram, jokes at their expense.

But this could lead to the next Timothy McVeigh, the next Oklahoma City Bombing, or the next Eric Rudolph.

They are getting bolder because our government sits on their fucking asses while these shitheads engage in terrorism.

Sooner or later, the government's going to have to end these fuckers. Better now before they get worse. If it means going Waco on them, so be it. Bring in the tanks. Make an example out of them that'll keep the cockroaches hiding for the next decade.

Yes, I know it'll look bad. It has to be done. Best now, so maybe our ADHD media will be talking about other shiny things by election time.

[Lions_fan]

50. I was ranting when I wrote the post

But that's my fear also. I understand they want a peaceful resolution and so do I. But allowing them to parade around, coming and leaving as they wish, holding press conferences and meetings with the sheriff, isn't a good look. These are criminals intent on overthrowing a federal department and they make sure this is known. If it comes down to the FBI having to raid the place, God forbid, these people will be seen as martyrs instead of the criminal traitors they are. Now you've got politicians visiting them against the advice of the local government and FBI. This isn't a legitimate group that should be meeting with elected politicians. The whole thing is a clusterfuck. All they had to do from the beginning is restrict their movement. This would've been over. Now you have the 3%ers, they're so extreme they scare the Bundy's, refusing to leave the area. They say they're there to keep the peace which means they are there to prevent the FBI from approaching the refuge area. This is gonna get nasty and it didn't have to be this way if they would've cut them off from the public the very first night.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I joke about it

but I joke about a lot of dark things (like oh local floods, or my years in EMS) but from the git go I called this what it is ... not just dangerous, but white supremacy on parade. Ok parade is the wrong, word.

Take into account some of the jokes are coming from the same place mine are coming from... because these guys are damn scary and the Feds screwed the pooch when they refused to so a thing in Nevada... this is the child of that one.

[MohRokTah]

48. Ain't gonna happen

The Feds are terrified of the Bundys so they get to do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences.

That's the lesson of this and the last encounter. The Bundys are above the law. Right Wing Terrorists are bowed down to. The worst that happens with rightwing terrorists is they are negotiated with.

The terrorists won in Nevada. They are just going to keep claiming the prizes of their victories.