The EPA. Flint. How much of this is EPA's fault?

[ghostsinthemachine]

Lots of talk today with Republicans who think the EPA is the problem here and in the othe4 cases of lead poisoning via water. So tell me wise DU.

[ProfessorGAC]

1. Absent Thus Far. . .

. . .is any cogent explanation as to how a regulatory agency is responsible for the decision to change a water supply without their knowledge.

How can something be one's fault if one doesn't even know it's occurring?

On the outside chance that Snyder's people called someone at EPA to ask if it was ok and someone at EPA let them do it without doing the risk analysis, then fire that someone.

That, however, seems a highly improbable hypothetical.

[ghostsinthemachine]

2. Well the argument is that the EPA

Should have done something after the water source was changed.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. They Weren't Informed

What is there to do? Most of the lead was coming from the source piping at and inside of the homes. The EPA doesn't have the resources or the authority to test the water in each individual point of use.

Second, they were not informed of the change. I heard on cable news that they were informed after the change and that any change like this should have required pre-notification, which appears not to have occurred.


Last point: i said cogent explanation. That is a convenient explanation/scapegoating. That doesn't make it cogent.

[Recursion]

5. That's the hard part: the water at the source was safe

But it was more corrosive than lake water, and it leeched lead from the lead pipes that towns aren't supposed to have anymore. And even there the main trunk pipes (they only ones EPA can realistically check) had mostly been replaced already; the problem is that last mile of piping.

[Crepuscular]

7. The change to a new water source

was not what caused the problem, it was the lack of adequate corrosion control after the water source was switched. Had phosphates been added by the water treatment plant, the lead leaching would not have occurred. This was a screw up by the local water treatment plant, the state DEQ and the Federal EPA, all of them bear some responsibility for what happened.

[doggie breath]

9. Oh my god

someone actually gets it right for a change.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. I Know

And the EPA doesn't have the resources, thanks to our repub friends, to check every mile.

On top of that, who didn't know the water lines in Flint were old? Did someone think the city just got built?

[former9thward]

16. Except they were informed.

And ignored protests. That is why the Region 5 EPA administrator resigned. And deservedly so.

"EPA Region 5 Administrator Susan Hedman has offered her resignation effective February 1, and EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy has accepted given Susan's strong interest in ensuring that EPA Region 5's focus remains solely on the restoration of Flint's drinking water," the agency said.

In late June, then-Flint Mayor Dayne Walling wrote to Hedman, seeking information about the issue of lead in Flint's drinking water. She essentially shot him down in her response.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/health/flint-water-crisis/

Why people cover up for the EPA I don't know.

[Crepuscular]

6. The criticism of the EPA

is based on the fact that the problem that caused the lead leaching (lack of corrosion control) was initially identified by an EPA employee, who brought it to the attention of both his superiors at the EPA and the State DEQ. The DEQ ignored him and his boss at the EPA buried his report and essentially told him to shut up about it.

Both agencies share the blame for the lead leaching issue not being addressed in a timely fashion. This was a bi-partisan regulatory cluster fuck and trying to score political points for one side or the other does nothing to help either the people of Flint or prevent such a disaster from happening in the future.

[ghostsinthemachine]

8. Okay

Thanks. This will come in handy.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. If You Say So

We have one party that has been trying to bury the EPA. I'm not sure i'd be so cocksure about taking that side.

[Crepuscular]

12. If you will notice

I didn't take a side, I said that both "sides" fucked up.

Sorry, I'm not an Uber-partisan who tries to turn every issue into a political battle. Flint was a cluster fuck and the people of Flint were the ones who paid the price but the issues that caused that cluster fuck were more about bureaucratic indifference coupled with incompetency on the part of multiple agencies. Changes need to be made so that such an occurrence does not happen again but partisan attacks to try and pin it on "the other guy" do little to help and simply contribute to the climate of divisiveness that is pervasive in this country.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Nice Try

There is no middle ground. Unless of course, you are trying to pretend you're not taking side.
I am taking side.
You are pretending not to attack the EPA.
I'm blaming the governor.
Pretty obvious difference
One of us will throw the EPA under the bus. The other of us won't.

[Crepuscular]

15. Reasonable people

find middle ground. Extremists don't.

The fact is that both sides, the EPA and the DEQ are both at fault in the Flint debacle. Giving one side a pass for partisan reasons may make you feel good but it smacks of intellectual dishonesty. If you are fine with that, good on ya.

[former9thward]

17. You are defending inaction when they were informed.

Not surprising.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. On one hand, we have a US EPA under constant attack by the GOP in the house and senate

demanding that they stop their efforts to clean water, air, etc.

Then we have the spectacle of house GOP attacking an EPA administrator because she was not getting answers from MI execs.

On the other hand, we have corporate assholes promising jobs and security, and wanting to treat government like a business, with cost cutting at all costs, with putting in cronies to run roughshod over elected bodies, and with knowledge that something terrible is happening to the water supply for an entire city. But luckily, that city was mainly populated by "those people." You know, "coloreds."

Which to blame? An EPA being attacked when they act, and attacked again when they try to follow congress' lead? Or a corrupt businessman who does not know how government operates or is supposed to operate, especially when it involves the lives and health of people of color?

Snyder, to my mind, is a closet racist. He simply would not be bothered about some people complaining about their water.

[Whiskeytide]

13. I think the decision to change the water source...

... with inadequate testing and a complete lack of consideration as to how it might impact the community falls squarely on the State government and Snyder - they wanted to run the city in a such a way to cut costs everywhere and gave little or no consideration to the safety of the citizens of Flint.

After it happened, the EPA may share some responsibility for the criminally slow response. That appears to be mostly Snyder's problem too - but someone at the EPA looks to have dropped the ball as well as concerns went unaddressed for months.

That's what I'm getting from it. Blaming the EPA and trying to make them out to be the primary culprit is a deflection tactic by Snyder.