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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDoes Engineering Education Breed Terrorists?
Like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Azahari Husin, and Mohamed Atta, these men sought to commit acts of terror in the name of Islam.
But all six also shared something else. They had studied engineering.
Researchers have long noticed that an oddly large number of jihadists have engineering backgrounds. Recently two social scientists, Diego Gambetta and Steffen Hertog, scrutinized the numbers and concluded that, yes, the proportion of terrorists who are engineers far outpaces expectations. Why is that? The researchers, who have pursued this question for the past several years, offer answers in a new book, Engineers of Jihad: The Curious Connection Between Violent Extremism and Education (Princeton University Press). In the process, they join two current debates: about the seeds of terrorism and about the blind spots that can afflict engineering education.
Snip
http://chronicle.com/article/Does-Engineering-Education/235800
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)since they know how to build bombs 'n stuff.
LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)the Sept 11 pilots went to flight school to learn how to fly.
I think it should be easy to profile these people as most engineers know how to do a certain amount like building robots or radios. Have certain interests along those line. People who have no knowledge should stand out.
Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #3)
Butterbean This message was self-deleted by its author.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I'm an engineer. When I went to college, most of us did not have a very specific interest. We were "sciency" and wanted a good career in technology.
Not sure this line would be very fruitful.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)What percentage of people from the countries where terrorists derive most frequently go into engineering programs when going to school abroad? I suspect it's fairly high.
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)that's what architects complain about all the time! engineers can be a bit... compartmentalized. it's very useful most days.
they, of course, have equally disparaging opinions about us.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)but if they are hyper-religious, engineering can't overcome that either.
I am an engineer and I don't like the tone of this thread.
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)
what they aren't is empathetic.
from the article: Not surprisingly, earlier releases of the research sparked objections from many engineering professors. Several "were absolutely irate about those idiots from the soft sciences who dont understand anything," says Hertog, now an associate professor of comparative politics at the London School of Economics and Political Science. Others saw the papers as an attempt to smear the profession.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)a member of the IEEE?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)though I don't agree with their rabid pro-nuclear power stance.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Because when I am working in the lab making sure your phone calls will work, it is WAY different than some other dude ensuring a bridge won't collapse in six years
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)structural
electrical
mechanical
plumbing
geotech
envelope
all of them are potential terries!
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Western countries for advanced education or jobs.
MowCowWhoHow III
(2,103 posts)Wednesday 23 March 2016 16.47 GMT
Two university students have been convicted of wanting to kill on Londons streets in the name of Islamic State in what counter-terrorism officials believe was the most significant jihadi plot targeting Britain in a decade.
Police, soldiers and civilians were the intended targets of the conspiracy, with a moped being used to stage drive-by killings after the terrorists had gained a gun, silencer and ammunition from a London-based criminal.
Ringleader Tarik Hassane, 22, pleaded guilty to having directed others in the plot through encrypted social media programs, while he was a medical student.
His friend Suhaib Majeed, 21, a physics student at Kings College London and a prize-winning maths student, was convicted of the plot by a jury at the Old Bailey. Both were born and raised in west London and friends from Westminster City school. They were lured by extremist Islamist online propaganda and personal contacts to throw away glittering futures.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/23/two-convicted-over-moped-drive-by-london-terror-plot
JCMach1
(27,558 posts)of parents push their kids into two fields: engineering, or medicine.
They do this, despite there being a HUGE glut of engineers in the MENA region.
This only adds to the problem... kids who are disgruntled about studying engineering get drawn into other things (Jihadism). If not disgruntled, discouraged as they simply cannot find a job using their degree.
I
maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)its a long article, but I made it 80% through at lunch.
Warpy
(111,257 posts)The vast majority of would be terrorists are guys who have driven themselves crazy but have no clue how to carry out any of their plans. These are the ones the FBI crows about capturing since they're the ones who talk in the hopes of finding somebody competent to buy reagents, wire timers, and generally build devices.
caraher
(6,278 posts)That's one of the fascinating and counter-intuitive findings. The engineers are not, by and large, the device builders!
name not needed
(11,660 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,340 posts)Blaming this religion is frowned on.
Jeffersons Ghost
(15,235 posts)They are not allowed to kill people, while we call them Holy Warriors (jihadists) and those fucking RIGHT-WING TERRORISTS can not call themselves "militia," while commandeering a US Federal facility built to protect wildlife!
LiberalArkie
(15,715 posts)Jim Jones was a Christian cult. And Waco was a Christian Cult. Etc.
I think once they have been started to be referred to as a Cult then they will start lousing followers.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Both are just criminal for-profit enterprises; ISIS happens to use some fake religious language; Mafia members use Catholic churches for weddings and funerals. No actual connection in either case.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,340 posts)How many people did they kill? How many did they injure?
They were trespassers and vandals, and probably committed some weapons violations. But that's about it. And law enforcement seemed to tolerate it for quite a while. They may have also expressed christian extremist views.
Not in the same category as the Paris and Brussels muslim extremists and their mayhem.
meow2u3
(24,764 posts)Longer answer: a combination of a criminal mind, desperate economic troubles, plus ideological zealotry breed terrorism. Engineering education only provides the means of such criminal minds to carry out their nefarious deeds.
caraher
(6,278 posts)Your short answer is surely true, but the nuanced long version contains surprises.
Orrex
(63,210 posts)This is long overdue. Ask any physicist.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)Everyone that reports to me is an engineer. I never fail to remind them that i'm a scientist. Jokingly, of course. Or maybe not. . .
Orrex
(63,210 posts)Oh, that zany Rutherford!
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)So, i guess i'm ok with that.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)malaise
(268,997 posts)Who made Agent Orange?
Depleted Uranium?
All the other chemical weapons?
All the bombs and nukes?
All the high powered weapons used against ordinary people?
This planet is suffering from a severe inversion of reality?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)See how easy that was?
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)caraher
(6,278 posts)The authors specifically investigate that. The engineers tend to be in leadership roles rather than serving as technicians building bombs.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)We must not discuss topics that might offend people.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)That professor was a real asshole anyway.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)The explosive devices they come up with aren't anything taught in an advanced class. They could just as well pack match heads into a water heater.
caraher
(6,278 posts)Pretty much every obvious "explanation" as to why there's nothing much to this is addressed therein.
That doesn't mean, at all, that engineering education inevitably breeds Islamist terror... just that this is an intricate story and the authors are well aware of all the very plausible explanations offered by smart people who nevertheless looked at the article and had a "TLDR" reaction.