General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe GMO-labelling movement is about faith, not facts.
The fight over genetically modified ingredients is almost over. The industry is backing down. In the next few months, one way or another, packaged foods made with GMOs will be labeled at your supermarket.
The only question that remains is how, exactly, the labels will be regulated and to what extent. The first state law to require GMO disclosures, passed two years ago in Vermont, comes into force this July, and recent efforts to reverse itin the courts and in Congresshave failed. Now the big players in the food industry are lining up to make concessions to widespread public sentiment and to stave off conflicting and confusing legislation. In January, the Campbell Soup Co. (which also manufactures Swanson broths, Pepperidge Farm cookies, and V8) promised it would label all its U.S. products to indicate which contain ingredients derived from GMOs. Last week, General Mills and Mars Food made a similar announcement, and then so did Kellogg and ConAgra.
For huge companies like these, the real-life facts about GMOsI mean, the facts about their actual effects, or noneffects, on human health and the environmentare secondary. So what if advocates for labeling come off as anti-science zealots or denialists with no more respect for expert consensus than a bunch of climate skeptics? So what if study after study shows that GM foods are safe? The people want what they want. Transparency sells.
If youre the kind of person who frets over Americans lack of scientific literacy, this accommodationist position may send you into a sputtering rage. A persons right to know, you might contend, should be in balance with his or her right to avoid unnecessary panic. The mere presence of a label has dire implications. It tells consumers that there is a meaningful distinction to be drawn between GMO and non-GMO ingredientsa material difference in the language of the Food and Drug Administrationand one that should be taken seriously. Yet genetic modification describes a process, not an end result, and theres no evidence that this process leads to special risks. Some bioengineered options on the supermarket shelf could be better for your health than other products. Some could be better for independent farmers and their families. And some could be worse. The scarlet GMO blankets all this variation and replaces it with dread.
full: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2016/03/the_gmo_labeling_movement_is_about_faith_not_facts.html
I don't get it. DU will laugh at creationists and anti-vaccine kooks, both of whom hold pseudoscientific views not supported by most of the literature. Same with Bigfoot hunters or conspiracy theorists. But anti-GMO propaganda gets lots of recs and the greatest section. Even though the supposed case for GMO labeling ("it'll help consumers make an informed decision!" is just as full of it as the case for voter ID laws ("they'll prevent fraud!" . Why? WHY?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Or maybe I'm just slow. Well, I know I'm slow. I used to believe the anti-GMO stuff.
alp227
(32,020 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)You should place your ads after some of the hubbub dies down.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Oh, wait. I forgot. That is all the anti-GMO movement has to offer.
Nevermind.
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2016/01/the_greatest_hyopcrises_of_the_anti-gmo_moviement.html
Also, it's interesting to note that you're new here, and I am not. Hmm.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)http://nutritionstudies.org/gmo-dangers-facts-you-need-to-know/
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/01/the-very-real-danger-of-genetically-modified-foods/251051/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/216714-dangers-of-gmo-foods/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/08/06/genetic-modification.aspx
http://responsibletechnology.org/gmo-education/health-risks/
"Today, the same biotech companies who have been found guilty of hiding toxic effects of their chemical products are in charge of determining whether their GM foods are safe. Industry-funded GMO safety studies are too superficial to find most of the potential dangers, and their voluntary consultations with the FDA are widely criticized as a meaningless façade."
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/genetically-engineered-foods-may-be-far-more-harmful-than-we-thought/
http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/press-releases/3766/are-gmos-safe-no-consensus-in-the-science-scientists-say-in-peer-reviewed-statement
https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/dangers-gmo-foods/
"The FDA does not require a single safety study on GMOs. This became policy in 1992 overseen by Michael Taylor who was formerly Monsantos attorney. He was actually assigned a new position designed specifically for him by the FDA, when the agency was ordered by the White House to promote GMOs."
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And Kimbrell, Jeffrey Smith (three times!).... Oh, goodness, indeed.
Heck, you even have this guy in there:
http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2014/01/864-jonathan-latham-allison-wilson.html
And this guy:
http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2015/06/1398-ty-bollinger.html
Oh, and as for your friend, Jeffrey Smith:
http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2014/09/1157-jeffery-smith.html
So you are supporter of snake oil peddlers? Really?
PS:
The war against genetically modified organisms is full of fearmongering, errors, and fraud. Labeling them will not make you safer.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/are_gmos_safe_yes_the_case_against_them_is_full_of_fraud_lies_and_errors.html
The debate over genetically modified organisms is a great case study in how to think critically.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/08/critical_thinking_lessons_for_the_anti_gmo_movement_generalizations_evidence.html
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)You have to be kidding.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)but it was the only name I recognized.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's also disheartening.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Stick to phrases like "me no science, science scary". It'll be easier for you.
womanofthehills
(8,703 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 30, 2016, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)
Time for a wash.
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/04/time-to-call-out-the-anti-gmo-conspiracy-theory/
revbones
(3,660 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)I personally find their propaganda impressive, but unfortunate.
roody
(10,849 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Isn't that the corporate gospel? "Let the market decide?"
Even if GMOs are proven 20 years down the road (after studies on their LONG-TERM effects), they get drenched in pesticides ... so I'll take my food without the side of pesticides, thanks.
The bees thank you, too.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)About those harsher herbicides that glyphosate helped replace:
http://www.crediblehulk.org/index.php/2015/06/02/about-those-more-caustic-herbicides-that-glyphosate-helped-replace-by-credible-hulk/
What does Chipotles switch to non-GMO ingredients mean for pesticide use?
http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2015/05/what-does-chipotles-switch-to-non-gmo-ingredients-mean-for-pesticide-use/
http://thefoodiefarmer.blogspot.com/2015/06/spraying-isnt-dousing.html
http://www.nurselovesfarmer.com/2014/08/how-much-glyphosate-is-sprayed-on-our-crops/
http://www.foodinsight.org/pesticide-food-safety-farmer
Oh, and organic products also use pesticides, often with just as much toxicity, some even more. They sometimes don't work as well, so they may need to use more of the stuff.
womanofthehills
(8,703 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's not much different. You have no justification for labeling. Your last meme is ludicrously bad proaganda. It is embarrassing to you, whether you realize it or not.
A GMO label tells you zilch:
http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2016/03/what-does-a-gmo-label-tell-you-about-herbicide-use/
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)That is just sad.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's not. It just shows that you can't support labeling with science and logic.
http://fafdl.org/blog/2014/08/16/a-principled-case-against-mandatory-gmo-labels/
http://www.itsmomsense.com/oppose-mandatory-gmo-labeling/
womanofthehills
(8,703 posts)Take your Monsanto check and go buy a bunch of GMO's to eat. You are an embarrassment to this site.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Your ugly personal attacks do not change that reality. You cannot support your stance on this issue. I can. That's your problem.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-people-oppose-gmos-even-though-science-says-they-are-safe/
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/are_gmos_safe_yes_the_case_against_them_is_full_of_fraud_lies_and_errors.html
wisechoice
(180 posts)If we need GMO science, let government handle the food science and get the corporations out of controlling the food, just like important public services such as police. Can't trust corporations with our food safety. Until then label the GMOs so that we can punish Monsonto
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Also, many other companies develop GMO seeds.
And all types of seed are patented.
There is far more research done on the far more predictable GMO seeds than on any other type of seed from any other type of seed development technology.
I'm pro government science, but the funding is far away right now.
Labeling one seed development technology and not all of them shows that this is just a marketing trend that got out of hand. It serves no purpose. It gives you no actual information of benefit. And it can't be justified logically.
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/04/time-to-call-out-the-anti-gmo-conspiracy-theory/
womanofthehills
(8,703 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)That's your response?
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)Just talking about a homeowner who grows veggies in the backyard garden (no pesticides, saves his own seeds each year). We live in a duplex. They live in the other 1/2. He has a hive at the back of the yard near the woods. Lots of farms grow corn around here, though, so I have to assume GMO + pesticides. He's lost 2 hives of bees in the last two years.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Don't make excuses.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Beyond simple perception or branding, what is the absolute and objective negative in open labeling?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)and that threatens jobs.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)It's like requiring table salt to have a big label saying "Contains Chlorine".
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Eventually, when backed against the wall, those with secrets to hide always resort to "the truth will create panic!"
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,703 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The fact that you don't even know what the problem is with your second meme is quite telling. Of course, since you think Vani Hari has something to offer the world besides ugly con games aimed at making herself rich, that's not surprising.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I assure you people are more addicted to eating food then smoking, but go ahead with that canard if you think it counts for something.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Unnecessary panic would be people avoiding products because some idiot with no credentials on TV or some website says it's bad, even will ALL scientific evidence stating the contrary.
progressoid
(49,988 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)progressoid
(49,988 posts)Sorry, I can't tell you who it was.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)AxionExcel
(755 posts)Never fear. DU gets a systematic and unrelenting barrage of pro GMO, Inc. PR, and Organic Hippie Punching, so you can heave a sigh of relief about that.
It is tragic in a weird way that you will have to learn to tolerate democracy (92% of Americans want labels), and will also have to put up with information and accessible knowledge. But you and your Elite 8% Cohort can always refuse to read the labels and maintain the purity of your ignorance.
alp227
(32,020 posts)It's sad that big companies bend over to every crank and quack complaint and accommodates every level of ignorance in the name of "informing".
Great argumentum ad populum. Ask LGBT couples in California how well majority rule worked out in 2008.
I'm a thinking progressive, not just a "stick it to the man" hippie. Unlike in 1968, information is cheap and readily available for those who want to open their minds.
mythology
(9,527 posts)At one point people thought slavery was good for black people. Just a few years ago people thought aids was a gay disease and same sex marriage was bad.
George Bush had a 90% approval rating in October 2001.
Appealing to the majority opinion regardless of if it's correct or not doesn't hold a lot of weight scientifically.
Johnny2X2X
(19,063 posts)This movement is not based on fact and it's simply slapping a "Good" or "No Good" label on foods for no scientific reason. Consumers will make less informed decisions because of it.
And the only reason why "Big Food" is now OK with it is that they've positioned themselves to game the system to charge people more money for the same foods.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The true believers of those movements who were (and probably still are) convinced they alone had a monopoly on the truth. If you didn't believe cell phones caused brain cancer, vaccines cause autism, high tension power lines are harming kids, Cheney orchestrated 9/11, government orchestrated mind control, aliens are abducting people, water fluoridation causes submission to the NWO, a big-pharma conspiracy is suppressing natural cures, AIDS was bio-engineered by the government, then you MUST be part of the conspiracy. Whether they admit it or not, pretty much all the biggest anti-GMO fanatics hit up on one or more of those creatively speculative topics as evidenced by the truly nutty sources they parrot out. Many of these favorite sources have close ties to the far right wing, up to and sometimes including anti-Semitism, which is why the crazy talk is covered by the TOS when it ventures too far into tin-foil-hat land.
So yeah, it really is very much like religious belief where anyone who calls bullshit on an imaginary friend MUST be a tool of the devil. Same tune, different verse.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Something you disagree with is just like something false. That's an awesome way to discredit. Too bad it doesn't work.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Here's another anti-GMO, anti-vaccine. pro-pseudoscience web page, flying its flag proudly.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/anti-gmo-pro-vaccine
Anti-GMO and anti-vaccination campaigns two faces of the same movement?
http://www.marklynas.org/2016/03/anti-gmo-anti-vaccination-campaigns-two-faces-movement/
Meanwhile, noting your post above, it appears that you buy into another conspiracy: That anyone who follows the actual science on GMOs must work for Monsanto or another similar company.
Hmm.
revbones
(3,660 posts)and I'd like to know about GMO's so I can avoid them.
I don't want to support Monsanto. I like farmers being able to recapture their seeds. I like bees. I like biodiversity. I like my bacteria to be naturally occuring without corrupted DNA. I don't like over-use of herbicides.
And I know enough of the industry its lax oversight and potential earth destroying disasters such as klebsiella planticola which could have destroyed all plant life on earth.
So comparing GMO labeling to a truther movement is not only ridiculous, it's highly suspicious.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Those that do save seeds, don't grow much food, and they can save all the seeds they want to save. It's just not very efficient.
And to clarify, Monsanto sells organic, non-GMO, and GMO seeds, as do other seed companies. All types of seeds can be patented, btw.
GMOs are far more researched than any other type of seed. They're also more predictable. They have led to fewer pesticides being sprayed, and to safer herbicides being used. Organic and non-GMO foods use pesticides and herbicides, too, and many of them are more toxic than those used on GMOs. Organic herbicides and pesticides are often less effective, as well, so they can end up using far more of the stuff.
You have no reason to avoid GMOs, other than baseless fear.
Thus, your entire argument is based on fictions. It is a truther type of movement, like it or not.
You have no reason to avoid GMOs, other than baseless fear.
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/bad-science-checklist-gmo-opponents/
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)That way when the anti-science crowd tries to float a well debunked argument, instead of trying to educate an obvious bubble dweller, you can just list the number of their parroted nonsense.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant to the point. Whether their arguments are false or not is irrelevant to the point.
The point was the method of their ad hominem attacks are no different than other half-fast conspiracy theory ad hominem attacks which is simply to claim anyone who disagrees with them is part of the conspiracy. That way they never have to consider any opposing arguments and can just comfortably live inside their bubble.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Won't labels cause the end of the world? I suggest we just not label anything, makes life more of a challenge!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)No wonder corporations are kicking our ass. Sheesh.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)is that it dilutes and destroys heirloom varieties of the same crops.
I know that's not necessarily an important fact to either side, but if you were growing an heirloom variety of corn for specialty markets/restaurants, you sure as hell would be upset if your GMO-planting neighbor's plant-pollen ruined your entire crop. Or worse, the GMO-patent owner took you to court for "stealing" their intellectual property.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Any plant developed using any seed development technology can do that.
Your heirloom plants can do that.
Thus, your argument makes no sense as an argument against any single type of seed development technology.
It's just bad anti-GMO propaganda.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)GMO crops "dilutes and destroys heirloom varieties of the same crops" to the exact same degree as any other dissimilar crop of the same species. Overseeding of adjacent fields has literally been going on for thousands of years.
The next time someone tries floating this allegation, ask them for an example of when and where this happened. Assuming you get any sort of coherent reply, inevitably you will be directed to the case of Percy Schmeiser who is heralded as something of a folk hero among the anti-GMO crowd. Now Percy certainly likes to travel the world and provide his sob story provided he's getting paid by the organic industry, but the problem is the story he tells publicly and the story that was told in court are quite different. Percy lied in court, he continues to lie, and certain people with an agenda continue to repeat those lies even though they have been well debunked.
As established in the original Federal Court trial decision, Percy Schmeiser, a canola breeder and grower in Bruno, Saskatchewan, first discovered Roundup-resistant canola in his crops in 1997.[4] He had used Roundup herbicide to clear weeds around power poles and in ditches adjacent to a public road running beside one of his fields, and noticed that some of the canola which had been sprayed had survived. Schmeiser then performed a test by applying Roundup to an additional 3 acres (12,000 m2) to 4 acres (16,000 m2) of the same field. He found that 60% of the canola plants survived. At harvest time, Schmeiser instructed a farmhand to harvest the test field. That seed was stored separately from the rest of the harvest, and used the next year to seed approximately 1,000 acres (4 km²) of canola.
At the time, Roundup Ready canola was in use by several farmers in the area. Schmeiser claimed that he did not plant the initial Roundup Ready canola in 1997, and that his field of custom-bred canola had been accidentally contaminated. While the origin of the plants on Schmeiser's farm in 1997 remains unclear, the trial judge found that with respect to the 1998 crop, "none of the suggested sources [proposed by Schmeiser] could reasonably explain the concentration or extent of Roundup Ready canola of a commercial quality" ultimately present in Schmeiser's 1998 crop.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc_v_Schmeiser
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I figured y'all would come through and "educate" us. Don't care what y'all have to say, truly, so am not even bothering to read that. I'll go with what Rodale has written on contamination of crops. I trust the Rodale Institute. I do not trust the GMO-support crowd on DU.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Rodale has been pushing pseudoscience for decades. You really should be more careful where you put your trust. Rodale is a money making con machine.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)When you intentionally seek out obviously biased opinions and specifically reject those of an unbiased fact finding court of law, then that tells any reader all they really need to know about your "opinions". Just sayin'
kentauros
(29,414 posts)So maybe site some other source, and I'll skim it, if I feel it's a fully trustworthy source. However, I don't really want to just see the original source from the citations list at the bottom. Find a different source.
The Rodale Institute, though, is a scientific group I do trust.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Had you bothered to get no farther than the very first footnote, you would have found the actual court decision which says the same thing. So let's please not pretend this is about the reliability or lack thereof of wikipedia because we both know it isn't.
The Rodale Institute isn't a "scientific group". It is a group with the stated purpose of organic advocacy. So again, please don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.
Percy Schmeiser's fields went from trace levels of GMO canola in 1997, to 95-98% in 1998. These are findings of fact by the court. One would have to be pretty gullible to think this was a result of overseeding from adjacent fields. The court certainly wasn't convinced, and neither were subsequent appeal decisions.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Again, I don't really care about your opinion on this matter. The only reason you're not on ignore is that sometimes you post something worth reading
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's not even close.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Are as good as fact. Here's a clue, it isn't, the Rodale Group isn't scientific, they conduct no research. Your opinion is ignorance wrapped in confidence.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I guess you're not familiar with them then:
Rodale Institute is one of but a few organizations doing independent agricultural research in the field. We are not a think tankwe get our hands dirty around here. Our research department is committed to building healthy soil through organic practices and establishing research projects that
give farmers the tools and knowledge to increase soil health, crop quality and yields while simplifying farm management overall.
ensure citizens feel confident the food they feed their families is good for them and for the world around them.
And here's why I generally distrust the opinions of the pro-GMO crowd on DU: while you may or may not work in those fields, the way you "discuss" the topic generally comes across as the stereotypical "corporate shill" as we are all so quick to designate anyone who doesn't toe the established line for whatever the topic. Dissent is not allowed, as is evident in your assumption that I live in an alternate reality.
I will let you know that you're another DUer whom I don't have on ignore because sometimes you post something worth reading. Such posts are few and far between, but it's enough.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Its not that dissent isn't allowed, its just that arguments from ignorance are invalid, and that's all you have posted. You don't know biology, so you fear research into it, I don't understand your perspective, you seem to exist in your own bubble where the rules of evidence don't apply. I would sincerely recommend that you learn about the subject you are so critical of before posting about it.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I simply dismiss your opinion on it. Because you're just another Internet poster. I have no reason to believe anything you post, including links. It's up to me to learn what I need from the sources I trust and not to convince anyone but myself. Same as with anyone. We're not writing a white paper here. It's just a discussion board with no bearing on anything.
The only reason I posted was for the benefit of those that are either like-minded or willing to look further into the point I made and make their own decisions. You and those like-minded to you have already dismissed my opinion out of hand, and that's fine, but I was never addressing that mindset.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)of hand, I researched it by going to the source you trust yourself, and was able to debunk one of their articles, which was junk from beginning to end. You are welcomed to present sources that actually stand up to scrutiny.
What sources you trust are those that display the same biases you do, you don't challenge your own viewpoint by giving your own beliefs and assertions, along with those of your trusted sources an honest assessment. You are doing precisely the opposite of what is critical thinking. The sad part is that you don't even recognize this, instead you try to dismiss everything as opinion, when this is far from the case, and so the bubble continues to be unbroken.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Wow, a whole one article! I'm impressed! And again, I have no reason to trust anything you print. Why do you trust what I'm saying then as being my actual opinion? I could just be stringing you along...
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)are immune to opinion and honestly, I just went to the source, searched "GMO" and selected an article, give me time and I could research the claims of their other articles and see which of those claims are inaccurate.
I mean, you could be stringing me along, but that would just make you a dishonest person. Are you being dishonest or a troll?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)particularly in trying to increase yields for organic farming to make it more competitive with conventional farming. Having read many of the abstracts, don't really see anything there that's really objectionable.
Its such a stark contrast with their hit pieces against GMOs that they publish on their website. Those are so unnecessary and makes them out to be cranks rather than simple researchers into techniques to improve organic farming.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)And I don't know why they wouldn't promote the work they're doing with the USDA. And I'm sorry I made my earlier statements of character.
Just so you know, one reason I don't read such reports is I don't have much of a science background (a long since passed and failed attempt at a geology degree.) The terminology tends to make my eyes glaze over. I'm glad you can read that stuff and could figure it out. Whereas I can only recognize some of it, and then it just becomes way too much effort on my part to decipher it all. I'd rather share with those more apt to read them
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)and some busy, office file type work, so I have a lot of downtime, so I will watch videos on youtube about science, or read scientific papers and break them down, things of that nature.
I also go on Wikipedia walks, which are always fun, and right now I'm listening to a podcast about the history of ancient Rome and a couple of skeptical and science podcasts. Not all at once, though I have found out that I can absorb what is said on podcasts and play Minecraft at the same time. That's odd. Can't read and listen to language, but Minecraft, no problem.
Also, just an fyi, but generally, even on "controversial" topics, Wikipedia has been shown to be about as accurate as any other encyclopedia.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)is about like having two people talk to you at once. I have used a form of guided meditation that uses that very technique and it's quite interesting. You eventually tune out both streams of talking (a different one in each ear) and relax. It's a means of getting messages through, such as for losing weight, and improving other things about oneself. And I can't remember what it's called now..
Anyway, yes I realize that about Wikipedia. I guess I'm thinking of some topics where I had read the "Talk" section and didn't agree with most of the reasons why something was being deleted. Those get just as heated as discussions here
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)This includes opinions that may happen to align with my own. I'd rather be shown facts and let me form my own opinions.
If you have any factual examples of the problem you identified in post 45, then they would be worth reading. I've asked others many times and the only thing I've ever seen offered is Percy Schmeiser, which is to say no example at all.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)about basic things?
Here's an example:
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"]You see, a bee doesnt know when a corn field is organic and when its genetically modified. Bees fly around freely; nobody is watching them, and nobody knows which plants they visit and which they dont. I read a great story about rooftop bees producing red honey in Brooklyn. Nobody knew why the local honey was red. Could it be some local nutritious miracle? No. They found a massive swarm of bees at the nearby maraschino cherry factory slurping up the red-dye colored high fructose corn syrup leaking from the building and bringing it back to the hive. Garbage in, garbage out, they say.
...
There has also been a great focus over the past few years on the colony collapse disorder affecting the honeybee population in the United States. At this point, there doesnt seem to be a clear reason for where or why the honeybees are going; only that with the honeybees goes the honey. And without honey, we lose a delicious and nutritious sweetener. But much more importantly, we lose an important part of the environment that ensures the sustainable production of fruits, vegetables, seeds and other crops. One theory is that the increased presence of GMOs in our crops has negatively affected our honeybees. In addition to hurting our ability to source a quality supply of domestic honey, GMOs are also hurting the honeybee population.
http://rodaleinstitute.org/gmo-honey/
First off, I wanted to say the tone of this entire article is biased and wouldn't withstand the standards Wikipedia enforces for all its articles, I wanted to point that out since you apparently trust a biased source over an unbiased one. Particularly egregious is there statement about GMOs hurting honeybee populations, this simply isn't true, at best its an unproven assertion, at worst, an outright lie.
And, having been curious about the so called existence of "GMO Honey", I found a couple of problems with this, first, corn isn't pollinated by bees, but by the wind, in addition, corn also isn't a source for nectar either, so isn't used to make honey.
Source: http://peacebeefarm.blogspot.com/2009/07/corn-produces-pollen.html
The only possible way to get GMO anything into honey is through errant pollen entering the bee honey after production, as pointed out in the article above. Mostly in the form of "Bee bread" a mix of proteins from pollen and honey that bees themselves consume, humans generally don't consume them unless as a supplement from supplement stores. In addition, unless you are eating raw honey, most of it is processed and filtered to remove contaminates such as pollen, so by the end, it contains zero DNA.
Source: http://glorybee.com/content/honey-facts-nutrition
ON EDIT: Forgot my conclusion! Doh! In conclusion, the fact of the matter is that this article is wrong, and it was one of the top two in an in site search for "GMO" that I did, I can, if you want, debunk their other articles.
marmar
(77,080 posts)How can more information be a bad thing?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)marmar
(77,080 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You are asking to label a single seed development technology, while not labeling all the other seed development technologies. And knowing that technology tells you nothing about the food itself, how it was grown, what modification was made, etc...
It's disinformation of the worst kind, and it's all derived from organic companies' ugly marketing campaign to demonize a specific seed development technology.
So, yes, indeed!
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/are_gmos_safe_yes_the_case_against_them_is_full_of_fraud_lies_and_errors.html
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Corn is corn regardless of what method is used to produce the seeds. What we are actually talking about is labeling a method of production which is unprecedented. So anyone who tries to tell you this is simply about doing something which is already being done is pissing on your shoes and telling you it's raining.
Furthermore this isn't about labeling and it isn't even exclusively about government mandated labeling. It's about a specific federal government mandated label, the purpose of which is to provide useful ingredient information to consumers which they can use to avoid ingredients which may produce an unwanted reaction. You do understand there's a hazard to filling this space with superfluous information, yes?
womanofthehills
(8,703 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 30, 2016, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)
Why do you side with corporations that lie in order to con people into their more expensive products that need use more land, and are no safer or better for the planet or its people?
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/04/time-to-call-out-the-anti-gmo-conspiracy-theory/
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)
We have a right to make food choices for ourselves.
No corporation or organization should be in control of the world's food source.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And what does that tell you?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The standard answer is corporations are evil, just not the ones that produce anything other than GMO because of well....reasons.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Thanks!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Trajan
(19,089 posts)Is less palatable to us scientific idiots than you realize, apparently ...
Give us idiots the labels, and we'll eat naturally evolved foods whilst flinging poo against the walls ...
Ooo ooo ooo Ah ahh ahhhh ....
Signed, Aerospace Systems Technician who has never seen a scientist make a mistake ... Ever ....
Oh wait ....
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)"Naturally evolved foods."
Really? You're going to push that kind of marketing silliness as a discussion point?
PS: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/regarding-science-mistakes-tropes-debunked/
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)where GMO corn has yet to fully be allowed in due to it's effects with the many varieties of maize. SO you keep chucking. Biodiversity is a very serious matter here., and yes that is gasp. I know, SCIENCE