Obamacare is not perfect

[wilt the stilt]

but it a hell of a lot better than what we had before. No pre-existing conditions is huge as is no cap. Yes, there are some negatives. It is meant to help people who have less money with subsidies. It is not meant to help you pay for healthcare if you retire in your fifties.

If you retire in your fifties then you should expect to pay for your own healthcare and not ask the populous to support you so you can travel. I personally own my own business and I pay $1900 a month and I am 64.

[zipplewrath]

1. Huge for some

The vast majority of people were relatively unaffected by the ACA, by design. The coverage plans that were created were modeled on existing coverage that was already widely offered. The increase in those covered was only about 5% or so, of which half already qualified for government assistance of some sort. There was a larger percentage of people, between 10-20%, that saw a reduction in their premium costs, or were able to get vastly better plans for little or no increase in premiums. And, yes there were a small percentage that got coverage because of the pre-existing exemption, and an even smaller population that no longer had to worry about bumping up against lifetime or annual maximums.

The vast majority of the rest of the population however either saw increase in their costs, or saw no impact what so ever. Labor unions had to get to work in negotiating new plans so they wouldn't be classified as "Cadillac" plans.

But costs are still out of control. The rates of inflation of medical costs are still in the 3-5% range and over the next 10 years are expected to exceed even that. Single payer is coming, because soon too many people won't be able to afford their premiums, much less their health care. My only worry is that it will be the GOP that brings it. And wait until you see what THEY decide is mandated.

[wilt the stilt]

2. I have been a huge supporter of single payer

since I own my own business. The unfortunate thing is i don't believe it will happen until businesses thrown in the towel. Obamacare is not a vehicle so you can retire in your fifties.

[zipplewrath]

7. Multinationals

I suspect, among the many drivers for this, will be the multinationals wanting to get out from under paying this as a direct cost here, when it is a shared cost in their other markets. Additional pressure will come when the costs of employee healthcare rise so much that it becomes more and more difficult for middle size companies to manage the costs. Since Obama care did little to nothing to control costs, and in fact may have hastened the steady rise of insurance costs, that day may come sooner than later.

[wilt the stilt]

14. I personally would love that

total scam right now for the businesses and the consumer. No one realizes how bad it was before Obamacare unless you were buying your own insurance. It was dreadful and i did it for 8 years. i understand it better than most.

[Xolodno]

42. Many business do want it.

It would free up resources, money, time, etc. the HR department uses in negotiating, assessing plans, revising plans, getting/eliminating plans.

Oh and the high premiums on Employment Practices Liability probably go down (and more insurance companies might be willing to offer it as well)

The so called "businesses" that the GOP say they don't want single payer are companies who do their best not to offer health insurance or your "Joe the Plumber" guy as all he see's it as another tax he has to pay for his employee's (and the employee see's it as less money in their pocket on the portion they pay).

[mike_c]

3. much of the rest of the world shakes its head in wonder...

...at the cluelessness of Americans and their health care options. Obamacare is only an improvement in the context of abysmal choices. No right minded Canadian or citizen of the EU would ever want to replace their current national health care systems with Obamacare. For the rest of the industrialized world, Obamacare would be a massive step backwards. That it's considered a step forward here only underscores the strangle hold that the 1% have on life in America, where even sickness and injury are milked for shareholder profit.

[wilt the stilt]

5. we have a sick system here

and the patient needs healing.

[HughBeaumont]

10. THIS.

STILL waiting for that list, Repubs, on the single/multi-payer countries that are clamoring for our sensibly sensible for-profit Wealthcare being the rule and not the supplement . . . .

. . . . any day now . . .

[Kip Humphrey]

4. What we had before ACA was no insurance. What we have now is no insurance.

You can be proud to spend $1900/month for health insurance if you like but we would like to have healthcare instead of your vaunted health insurance even were we able to get the insurance. To their credit, ACA did give us an excuse from paying the tax penalty for all that's worth.

I'm guessing you railed against welfare queens in the '90s, the $15 minimum wage, and Donald Trump sending his kids to public university for free.
Question: are you a lawyer, lobbyist, or insurance broker?

[wilt the stilt]

6. i am certainly not proud to pay $1900

and I have been a proponent of single payer since 2001 when I opened my business. i paid my own way until 2009 and then one of my customers offered me a package to come on full time and I accepted it. I am back on my own and paying through the nose. Why do you think I would be against the $15.00 minimum wage or be for any of the other trash that you state. I used to be a waiter and I made that famous 2.13 an hour.

I could tell you the horrors of paying your own way. Things like out of pocket with the most popular package was $5,000 per person and they only covered 70% . You were allowed only 6 visits to the doctor with a $40 copay. your deductible was $2,000 and if you had a preexisting they wouldn't cover anything for a year. One of my friends daughter was excluded forever for acid reflex. Also no prescription coverage until you spent $300.00 per person

all this in 2002 for $1100 per month nice insurance. Blue Cross.

I actually cold call and sell software and services for a living. I am in high tech.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. That's What You Got From That Post?

I cannot fathom how you made those inferences about the OP. Seems way over the top. Sort of like looking for a fight when none was imminent.

[wilt the stilt]

13. hey prof

this is in my face

I'm guessing you railed against welfare queens in the '90s, the $15 minimum wage, and Donald Trump sending his kids to public university for free.
Question: are you a lawyer, lobbyist, or insurance broker?

[SHRED]

8. I know my situation pisses you off

In fact you went after me and had a message hidden by a 6-1 vote:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7743270

The thing is you do not know my situation yet you jump to nasty conclusions. That is why your post was hidden by an overwhelming majority.

Why not focus on the cost of healthcare instead of attempting to tear down me or anyone else?
You are paying way too much and that is the healthcare system we have that needs changing.


...

[wilt the stilt]

11. If you look at all my posts

I have been a proponent of single payer for 15 years when i opened my own business. I have paid through the nose for a long time.

how is this for a scenario.
I could tell you the horrors of paying your own way. Things like out of pocket with the most popular package was $5,000 per person and they only covered 70% . You were allowed only 6 visits to the doctor with a $40 copay. your deductible was $2,000 and if you had a preexisting they wouldn't cover anything for a year. One of my friends daughter was excluded forever for acid reflex. Also no prescription coverage until you spent $300.00 per person

all this in 2002 for $1100 per month nice insurance. Blue Cross.

So I have lived it for a long time and i know there are problems with it. The poor are supposed to be subsidized not people who retire in their fifties.

[SHRED]

15. I see

Look, the only thing that was holding me back from retiring was pre-existing conditions.

Are you telling me that after working my entire life, saving, staying out of debt, raising two kids, sacrificing so I could have the opportunity to retire, and paying off the house...are you telling me that that plan should not be implemented and instead I should keep working?

ON EDIT: Is that what you would do in my situation? You'd keep working at a job you were at for over 20 years that you were burnt out on? Be honest.

---

[wilt the stilt]

16. What I am saying is if you retire

in your fifties then take personal responsibility and pay your own way. Don't ask the taxpayers to subsidize your retirement. The rest of us have to wait until we are 65 and get medicare. If you want to retire early then be responsible and pay your own way. Retirement age and medicare is set up to be 65. Early retirement for social security is 62. You are 59 so it is your call to retire. Don't ask the taxpayers to subsidize your travel.

Your burnt out? there is a reason why they call it work and not play and leisure. I woke up at 4:00 in the morning on Tuesday morning and I flew to DC. i had 3 meetings and on Wednesday i ad 3 more. 6 meetings in 2 days. I flew home last night and I am on the phones today.

That is work. Do you think I like waking up at 4:00 in the morning to fly?

okay, pay your own retirement until you reach the age where society has deemed that you receive support. that would be 65.

[SHRED]

17. Your premise skewed

That you are paying for me which is not how the ACA is funded anyway for the most part.

My wife and I's AGI qualifies us for help with the premium.
I didn't make these rules yet you blast me?


OBTW: when I add up our healthcare costs over the last two years since retiring it's well over $25,000 and that's a premium subsidy. I'm actually paying way more than I did when I worked (Public Service) which cost the taxpayer way more also since it was a "Cadillac" plan via Anthem that my public employer paid dearly for with tax dollars.

So I am actually costing less while stimulating the economy by opening up another position for someone else and spending all of my retirement to live and spend around the country.

[SHRED]

19. I'm done with you being petty

I'm not "gaming" anything.

[hfojvt]

32. so people can still get subsidies when they retire?

I had wondered about that.

I am not sure I agree with it, but I plan to take advantage of it in a couple of years. If, of course, Obamacare is even around in two years - which there is no guarantee of.

I kinda hate taking a subsidy anyway, but since I work for a local government, if I took healthcare from my employer it would cost the local taxpayers about $4,000 a year (and cost me about the same - in pre-tax dollars). That is not considered a subsidy though, it is considered part of my pay. The federal subsidy then might be considered the same way, except instead of having local taxpayers pay $4,000, I am having federal taxpayers pay $3,600.

[SHRED]

21. For anyone reading this here's what it's about

Here's my post.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027726497

And here is the hidden message o by WTS here within that post's thread. Judge for yourself

[pampango]

9. I doubt the man whom it is named after would dispute that statement. n/t

[Texasgal]

20. The subsidies don't help

much when your deductible is 6,000. and you are critically ill.

[wilt the stilt]

26. I lived the horrors

and it does suck. That is not my point. i am all for single payer and have been for 15 years. I paid my own way for years. i don't think the subsidies were created for people to retire early. i wish the subsidies were enough for a much lower deductible. I think the subsidies were created for the struggling people to get healthcare not for people retiring early because they are burnt out.

[Texasgal]

27. Flippant response.

Your only point is to call out another poster. Your OP sucks. You got a jury hide and a response and all you care about is calling out this other poster.

Rude.

[wilt the stilt]

30. why flippant

it is a thoughtful based premise and i will ask you.

Do you think the ACA subsidy was created for the struggling working family to afford health insurance or do you think it was created for early retirees who were not forced out so the can afford health care and travel?
honest and reasonable as far as I can tell.

[Texasgal]

33. I will not entertain you with a response.

This thread is nothing but a call out.

[wilt the stilt]

38. you can't answer

because you can't defend the premise of retiring early and asking people to subsidize you so you can travel.

[Wounded Bear]

22. How about those who are forcibly retired in their 50's?

It's not about welfare recipients traveling. It's about people who get squeezed out of the system surviving.

Your last paragraph comes straight out of the RW/libertarian hand book. Complete with the "I've got mine, so you should pay for your own, too" bullshit.

[SHRED]

23. Contrary to what wts believes...

... I am actually saving taxpayers for my healthcare costs now that I'm retired and paying much more out of pocket.

To your point...yeah...it is bullshit.

[Texasgal]

25. Gah! It's no ones business but your own.

The OP sounds like someone pissy that his comments got booted and wants to continue his arguement.

[SHRED]

28. Point well taken...thanks

[wilt the stilt]

24. i do not believe the person was forcibly retired

I believe if you follow the posts he wanted to have a PPO so the retired people could travel i do not believe in this case that was why the subsidy was created. One retired at 55 and one retired at 59. Our system does create real subsidies for you and it is called medicare but that doesn't kick in until 65. early SS is 62.

Burnt out is not a valid argument .

Each case is individual and people who are forcibly retired have a valid argument. people who retire and want to travel in my opinion do not have a valid argument.

[Wounded Bear]

29. You are arguing another case entirely...

one which you apparently got booted out of for comments unbecoming.

I have no desire to argue with you. Proceed.

[wilt the stilt]

31. i'll ask you the same question

Do you think the ACA subsidy was created to help struggling families to obtain healthcare or do you think it was created for early retirees by choice to afford health care so they can travel.

[hfojvt]

35. actually no

it is more like "I am working for mine, so you should too".

Seems to me that a couple making $55,000 in retirement really can say "I've got mine" especially when they retired early.

I am hoping to retire at 56. Been counting the days for over a year now. I expect my pension will be about $4,800 a year. Not $48,000, but $4,800.

I think I can scrape by on that and savings until I am 62 and Social security kicks in another $700 a month. I may run the numbers though and decide I need to work part time another year (I am working part time now).

I feel worse for a person who is still working at 64 than I do for somebody making $55,000 in retirement. If anybody can say "I've got mine", it is the retired person. Yeah, $55,000 a year how will they ever survive without government assistance? Won't somebody please think of retired people above the median income????

[GeorgeGist]

34. The Medical Insurance Pharmaceutical complex ...

makes the MIC look like paupers.

[wilt the stilt]

36. This is how bad the insurance

was. one year my daughter had to have her jaw moved back because her underbite was so far out. If we didn't move her jaw she would eventually have lost all her teeth When you move your jaw back you lose your chin. No Dad is going to have her daughter with no chin. If we said we were going to reconstruct her jaw insurance would have paid nothing. So we had the surgery and I paid out of pocket to rebuild her jaw.
I paid over $25,000 out of pocket for that surgery. That doesn't include my monthly payments.

I know the horror.
That being said i am all for the subsidies but I am against someone asking us to pay so they can travel.

I am really for single payer.

[Texasgal]

37. Do you agree with

drug testing for TANF recipients?

[wilt the stilt]

39. absolutely not

complete bullshit and the republicans trying to demonize the poor. However i think we should drug test all legislators especially republicans.


Look, i am very liberal and I am all for single payer. However we are stuck with the ACA. Subsidies should be for the people who are between 20,000 and 75,00 with graduated scale for now. Healthcare should be around $2,000 deductibles $4,000 out of pocket. and a $20 copay.

We then work towards a single payer with a time table of let's say 10 years. this way the economy can figure out how to get there.

It should be for the working family or single person. It should not be for people who have decided on voluntary early retirement. Burnt out is not forced out.

In the earlier original thread someone suggested an emo(discounted local doctors) a reasonable request. his response we want to travel. That is when i had it.

Hey we all want to travel and take it easy. If you voluntary retire then you have an obligation to society on a whole to incur the expenses of retirement and not ask the taxpayer to pay you way.

[Texasgal]

40. Here lies the issue:

However we are stuck with the ACA. Subsidies should be for the people who are between 20,000 and 75,00 with graduated scale for now. Healthcare should be around $2,000 deductibles $4,000 out of pocket. and a $20 copay.

That's not happening. It is a huge problem if you are critically ill. My husband is on a liver/transplant list and is within inches of his life right now. He is on disability because he is on his fucking death bead.

Subsidy: 137.00 a month. Deductable: 6,000.00 Co-pay: Once deduct hits nothing for the PCP... but he only sees specialists now days. Bills: I'd say we are close to about 60,000.00 right now, this is all the shit the insurance didn't cover.

By the time this is all over with, we will owe close to over a 1/2 million in medical debt. Ofcourse, he could die and I'd be off the hook financially.

Oh, and just so you know. My husband is 59 years old and has worked his ass off all his life. He deserves more than this shitty ass plan and wimpy 137.00 subsidy . 500.00 a month with a subisdy is still very expensive.

You getting all bruised over a posters comments without knowing the whole story and not knowing their issues makes this conversation suck.

Oh, and before anyone pounces on me, Yes... I am atleast greatful we have insurance.

[wilt the stilt]

41. I am with you

so I agree i does suck and I lived it. I paid for 8 years and i am paying now so i know. the subsidies are inadequate and i say. that is why i say that it should be 2,000 deductible and out of pocket maybe 4,000. a hospital will set up a payment plan for you. I certainly have set it up in the past.

$4,000 should be the most you are liable for. If you go back to the original string from days ago he was offered an emo but "I want to travel" His wife retired at 55. Come on give me a break.

I resent when someone wants to retire so they can travel and they ask us to pay for it.