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Why Not Getting Married Is Smart Economics For Women (Original Post) marmar May 2016 OP
K&R. smirkymonkey May 2016 #1
I should show this infographic to women I date IronLionZion May 2016 #2
(you get dates??!?) lastlib May 2016 #7
Cats! IronLionZion May 2016 #8
Never woulda thought of that! Thanks! lastlib May 2016 #11
Reverse #3 and it's certainly a good reason TexasMommaWithAHat May 2016 #3
I saw a similar discussion on this last year (maybe same data?) I think.... Adrahil May 2016 #4
K & R with thanks! ancianita May 2016 #5
Correlation or Causation? One_Life_To_Give May 2016 #6
Most seem like money based arguments Egnever May 2016 #9
You must have more than you need... scscholar May 2016 #26
Of course Egnever May 2016 #41
My GF and I have chosen not to marry because of... Javaman May 2016 #10
Social security spousal and survivor benefits may be a reason to re-think. JustABozoOnThisBus May 2016 #12
If one you is unable to work before accumulating TexasMommaWithAHat May 2016 #17
Yeah, it's the latter... Javaman May 2016 #21
I'm 52 and never wanted to be married PasadenaTrudy May 2016 #13
+1 nt Javaman May 2016 #22
I wonder how much of the difference is due to children? FLPanhandle May 2016 #14
Exactly PasadenaTrudy May 2016 #16
As for as your last line - it's smart only for individuals - not society TexasMommaWithAHat May 2016 #18
Except I suspect Social Security will be privatized by then FLPanhandle May 2016 #19
I surely hope not! TexasMommaWithAHat May 2016 #20
One study purported to show that childless career women had the same career arc & income as men. Hekate May 2016 #30
Unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities make substantially more than men Major Nikon May 2016 #36
Are you suggesting men don't want children? davidn3600 May 2016 #38
Ah, I see you harbor some resentment there. I wasn't exactly addressing you here. Hekate May 2016 #42
Bob's your uncle Major Nikon May 2016 #35
That data is what scares ReTHUGs malaise May 2016 #15
This only proves what most us knew what marriage was really all about... davidn3600 May 2016 #23
Well, and the unpaid labor of women, assumed to benefit men, Warpy May 2016 #24
Married men do so much better? Really? davidn3600 May 2016 #34
Argue with the charts Warpy May 2016 #44
So if women are doing more work at home, and men are doing more work for pay.... Major Nikon May 2016 #40
Why do you think it's a legal contract with many clauses delineating responsibilities & rights? Hekate May 2016 #31
i'm terribly far off, in terms of money, married as i would be single fizzgig May 2016 #32
Wow. I took a look at that from my families situations. Very jwirr May 2016 #25
"Women earn more when they don't marry, men earn less" lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #27
Good point. I would have quit my well paying job by now if not for supporting the family. FLPanhandle May 2016 #28
I have a very definite opinion on what people I've never met should do with their own lives. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #29
+1 fizzgig May 2016 #33
Getting married is for suckers daleo May 2016 #37
I never could get past the part where you could only be with that one person.... Skittles May 2016 #39
Not getting married is not a statement of independence Emelina May 2016 #43

IronLionZion

(46,025 posts)
8. Cats!
Tue May 17, 2016, 10:01 AM
May 2016

Keep at least 20 of them running around and learn how to knit! You'll never feel lonely or cold again!



TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
3. Reverse #3 and it's certainly a good reason
Tue May 17, 2016, 08:46 AM
May 2016

why men don't want to marry, either.

And marriage (or long-term cohabitation) can and frequently does increase living standards even if only one person is working. I'm pretty sure that those years I stayed home with the kids saved this household a lot of money in childcare.

Two parents raising children in the same household are usually better off due to the dual income, in-home childcare by one of the parents, or some combination of both.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
4. I saw a similar discussion on this last year (maybe same data?) I think....
Tue May 17, 2016, 08:46 AM
May 2016

the interpretation of the data is not as deep as it could be. I think the emphasis on marriage itself is misguided. I think, for example, that in many cases, women who get married and have kids are more likely to be conservative, and therefore inclined to privilege their husband's career.

I think marriage is more of a CULTURAL marker than anything else. I know that my wife (super feminist academic) wanted a long term relationship and kids with me. But she would have preferred to NOT get married. OTOH, I'm an old romantic, and I wanted to get married. I convinced her to marry me through the seductive charms of tax advantages and medical insurance (she was in grad school at the time). I don't think marriage affected her career prospects much at all. In fact, we wound up relocating for her career, which ironically lead to a huge boost for my career!

But I think women who choose to marry are more likely to embrace traditional gender roles, which favor the man in terms of career and earnings.

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
6. Correlation or Causation?
Tue May 17, 2016, 09:21 AM
May 2016

Does getting Married cause it? Or is it a sign of other things which can cause the difference?

For example is the number of under 21 children living in the home the same for married vs cohabiting parents?

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
9. Most seem like money based arguments
Tue May 17, 2016, 10:08 AM
May 2016

And if money is your measure of your life I would argue you are never going to be happy married or not.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
26. You must have more than you need...
Tue May 17, 2016, 06:28 PM
May 2016

because for the average person every day comes down to what you can afford. Money rules every moment if you're not wealthy. You can't do things. You can't go places. You can't even eat. It's sad how oppressive and crushing money has become.

 

Egnever

(21,506 posts)
41. Of course
Wed May 18, 2016, 12:50 AM
May 2016

I live in America.

Need is a relative term. Do you need to go places? I am far from wealthy but I have never been a money centered person even when I lived under bridges.

Javaman

(62,728 posts)
10. My GF and I have chosen not to marry because of...
Tue May 17, 2016, 10:42 AM
May 2016

Social Security and tax filing reasons.

It works out best for the both of us.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,556 posts)
12. Social security spousal and survivor benefits may be a reason to re-think.
Tue May 17, 2016, 11:47 AM
May 2016

That is, if your decision is strictly based on economics.

There can be tax implications if one partner dies, as well.

Best to you both.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
17. If one you is unable to work before accumulating
Tue May 17, 2016, 03:31 PM
May 2016

enough "points" to get more social security than you would if you were collecting on your spouse's social security , you will have wished that you married. That's assuming you're both pretty young.

However, if you'r much older and one or both of you is able to draw on a former spouse's social security, then it's better not to marry. I have a friend in that situation.

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
13. I'm 52 and never wanted to be married
Tue May 17, 2016, 01:37 PM
May 2016

My b/f and I have been shacking up for 9 years. We are childfree and have a good life. Why fix what isn't broken?

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
14. I wonder how much of the difference is due to children?
Tue May 17, 2016, 01:43 PM
May 2016

I would suspect more married women in the study have children vs the never married.

Children are incredibly expenses and time consuming for women.

I wonder what the results would be if children were factored out.

Not having children is smart economics for both men and women.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
18. As for as your last line - it's smart only for individuals - not society
Tue May 17, 2016, 03:34 PM
May 2016

I applaud people who know themselves well enough not to have children if they don't want them,
but we do need the next generation to pay your social security.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
19. Except I suspect Social Security will be privatized by then
Tue May 17, 2016, 03:39 PM
May 2016

So the kiddos will be working and paying the bankers.

Hekate

(92,439 posts)
30. One study purported to show that childless career women had the same career arc & income as men.
Tue May 17, 2016, 07:47 PM
May 2016

That was only a few years back, and by the time I finished reading the article I was ready to fling it at something -- hard.

What it boiled down to -- and you will note it still does -- is that women who pattern their lives after the male model are "successful." All they have to give up is the one thing most of us are hard-wired to eventually want: a child.

(Note to readers who think I am saying "all" and "always" -- it's "most" and "eventually.&quot

The message is clear: Be a man in a skirt. There's only one model for success, and you will be rewarded accordingly.

Ain't America great?

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
38. Are you suggesting men don't want children?
Tue May 17, 2016, 10:53 PM
May 2016

Men want children too....but we have to go out and work ourselves to death to be your breadwinner so you can have your child and so you can feel like a mom.

Then you bash us because you don't make as much money as men do. You want to make as much money and be as successful as men, guess what....you will have to work just as hard as men do.

Hekate

(92,439 posts)
42. Ah, I see you harbor some resentment there. I wasn't exactly addressing you here.
Wed May 18, 2016, 01:48 AM
May 2016

That would be my response to your "money grubbing women/no love or romance" post.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
23. This only proves what most us knew what marriage was really all about...
Tue May 17, 2016, 04:19 PM
May 2016

....money.

It's a partnership based on money.

The idea of love and romance only exists in fairy tales.

Warpy

(112,187 posts)
24. Well, and the unpaid labor of women, assumed to benefit men,
Tue May 17, 2016, 05:18 PM
May 2016

which is why married men do so much better than unmarried men or married women. The CW still thinks that women do all the shitwork at home, freeing the man to be married to his job and burdening her so that she can't be married to hers.

While it's changing, it's doing so slowly and employers haven't caught on.

Herbal romance is how they sucker us into accepting such an unequal arrangement.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
34. Married men do so much better? Really?
Tue May 17, 2016, 10:10 PM
May 2016

I know of married men who literally worked themselves to death to be the "provider." Men today are still pressured by society to be providers.

There are LOTS of men out there who rather be doing something they actually like doing, even if it doesn't pay well. But they have to provide for their family, work dangerous jobs, work overtime, work stressful jobs. There is enormous pressure for this and every single man in this country feels it. And women, who are looking for marriage, demand it. It's expected for the man to be the primary breadwinner. It's still a hypergamy society.

Warpy

(112,187 posts)
44. Argue with the charts
Wed May 18, 2016, 04:29 AM
May 2016

and remember, women are now firefighters, smoke jumpers, and coal miners these days.

And the word you're looking for to define today's society is "patriarchal."

Also learn the difference between a statistical norm and defining every individual. Of course there are outliers to statistical norms. However, as a statistical norm, married men do better financially as a class.

Major Nikon

(36,870 posts)
40. So if women are doing more work at home, and men are doing more work for pay....
Tue May 17, 2016, 11:19 PM
May 2016

How does spending more time away from their home and families benefit men exactly? I think you are confused on who is getting the shit end of that stick.

Hekate

(92,439 posts)
31. Why do you think it's a legal contract with many clauses delineating responsibilities & rights?
Tue May 17, 2016, 07:53 PM
May 2016

Also, as already noted, in this country women's labor at home is not monetarily rewarded -- i.e. there is no salary, no SS, no retirement plan. NO safety net to speak of for women and children if mom and dad split up.

Yet for some reason the LGBT community has fought long and hard for the right to engage in this legal contract that according to you has nothing to do with love and romance.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
32. i'm terribly far off, in terms of money, married as i would be single
Tue May 17, 2016, 08:52 PM
May 2016

i married my husband because i loved him and wanted to.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
25. Wow. I took a look at that from my families situations. Very
Tue May 17, 2016, 05:48 PM
May 2016

good analysis.

However, many of the men in our family have less education but have been able to have good paying jobs and often make up the difference in child care costs and doing a good share of the household chores including cooking. In other words these men are worth their weight in gold. Back in the day it was almost exclusively women who did that and not one recognized their value. They were just housewives.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
27. "Women earn more when they don't marry, men earn less"
Tue May 17, 2016, 07:10 PM
May 2016

Stands to reason, doesn't it? The expectation in US marriage is that the man will be a breadwinner, while mom stays home with the kids.
If you're a guy and a shitty breadwinner, you don't get married, and if you do, you'd better step up the game by taking more overtime and getting a better paying job.

Men who don't marry have more time away from work, and freedom to take jobs for the nonmonetary benefit.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
28. Good point. I would have quit my well paying job by now if not for supporting the family.
Tue May 17, 2016, 07:41 PM
May 2016

I'd be working on a boat somewhere for a fraction of the pay.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
29. I have a very definite opinion on what people I've never met should do with their own lives.
Tue May 17, 2016, 07:43 PM
May 2016

Namely, whatever the fuck is right for them.

Skittles

(154,774 posts)
39. I never could get past the part where you could only be with that one person....
Tue May 17, 2016, 11:16 PM
May 2016

for the rest of your life

that just sounds ridiculous to me

Emelina

(188 posts)
43. Not getting married is not a statement of independence
Wed May 18, 2016, 03:23 AM
May 2016

I would prefer a nation that sees its allegiance to family units rather than everyone being in a fractured state socially. Derkheim made it clear that family networks are our primary sense of being. His analysis is over a century old but I will stick to its validity.

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