If 20 children in Sandy Hook weren't enough, do you think

[SheilaT]

50 people in Orlando will finally be a death count high enough to make this country understand that it's long since time we gave up our obsession with guns?

And if not these 50, what count might make it happen? 60? 75? An even 100?

[Gomez163]

1. We've lost 90,000 people since Sandy Hook to gun violence.

[SheilaT]

3. People do tend to pay more attention

to larger numbers, rather than the one at a time.

I happen to be in favor of outright confiscation of guns, and I'm considered a nutcase.

[Gomez163]

4. I am in favor of reducing the numbers of guns and sharply curbing the

sale of the guns used in mass shootings, be they AR-15s or whatever.

And background checks that really mean something and that take longer to really probe the purchaser's background. Maybe have an FBI investigation like they do when you try to get a government job.

[LonePirate]

5. That makes two of us. Repealing the 2A and confiscating all guns are the only solutions.

[auntpurl]

2. I agree.

Sandy Hook was when the US passed whatever line in the sand exists for countries who want to protect its citizenry. If a school full of dead children didn't horrify people enough to insist to every elected representative that they MUST pass sensible gun control laws, nothing ever will.

[WiffenPoof]

6. Unfortunately...

...i completely agree with you. I wept for a long time after Sandy Hook.

[SheilaT]

7. Here's the thing.

Other countries don't allow such easy access to guns. And, isn't it just strange that they don't get anywhere near the number of gun deaths as this country does? And DON'T bother to bring up the few, the rare mass shootings that have happened in other countries recently.

I just like to remind everyone that after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996 Australia basically took guns away from most people and -- I know it's unfathomable -- they have not had a single mass shooting since. Could that *possibly* be related to the guns?

And if you think otherwise, and if you try to say that there are still lots of shootings in Australia, you're wrong. Just look at this chart:

[auntpurl]

10. Re: Australia, it's important to also note that the politicians

who passed that law knew in advance their political careers would be over. And they were over - they were all voted out of office. They did it because they knew it was the right thing to do, and to hell with their own political futures. That is bravery.

[SheilaT]

11. And how many citizens are still alive?

It is clear that many, many of our politicians are complete cowards where this issue is concerned.

[Travis_0004]

12. Since 1994 US gun deaths are down 50%

They have fallen at a faster rate than Australia in the last 20 years.

[SheilaT]

13. Oh, gosh, how fabulous!

That's actually a misleading statistic in that the 50% drop occurred between 1993 and 2000, and has remained essentially steady ever since.

If it had been dropping steadily the entire two decades, I'd be more impressed.

It's still obscene that anyone would use numbers like this to excuse the unconscionably high number of deaths from guns every single day in this country.

[Travis_0004]

14. It does show that when the AWB expired gun deaths did not go up

But passing it a second time will magically make them go down?

[SheilaT]

17. Confiscating guns could help.

If almost no persons had guns, well, just imagine.

[Kentonio]

15. The large drop in deaths was because of the ending of the crack epidemic

[Ms. Toad]

8. Nope.

Dead children count double. Dead LGBT individuals count maybe half. That makes the incidents roughly equivalent.

In case I need it, - but only half-hearted sarcasm, as I watch the ever-present (but thankfully declining) violence against LGB individuals - and the increasingly prevalent and still tolerated violence against trans* individuals - especially transwomen of color.

ETA: http://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/06/here-are-all-the-people-applauding-the-orlando-gay-club-shooter/

[SheilaT]

9. I also wish that photographs of those murdered by guns

were published in the news. Yes, have a clear warning so parents can turn off the pictures if they choose, but I think that people do not understand exactly what violence bullets do to the human body.

[frazzled]

16. If we put as much energy and work into demanding gun laws

as we did in enshrining presidential candidates and discussing their every burp and belch, we might get somewhere. The problem is that we (I include myself) get incensed for a few days after each of these incidents and then go straight back to normal.

I have attended gun-control rallies outdoors in the bitter cold of a Chicago winter, I have donated money to the Brady campaign, I have written legislators. I also, at some point over the past few years, began to give it all up as hopeless. My bad.

We need to expend as much energy and effort in discussing and gathering together publicly about gun control as we did in promoting the candidacies of either Clinton or Sanders. Shame on all of us.

I hope Hillary Clinton makes it a central issue of her campaign. We must not be afraid to say how much we hate the culture of guns in which we live.