ISIS and the rebels are wiping out gay people in the ME

[CJCRANE]

and yet many liberals keep saying 'it couldn't happen here'.

There is little concern with the slaughter and subjugation of gay people, women, Christians, Shias, secular muslims and minorities over there.

Allied regimes also execute gay people and spread their ideology far and wide.

And yet many on the left still say 'everything's under control, go back to sleep'.

[glowing]

1. And what is the solution? More bombs? Send in our armed services?

Sending as many weapons as our arms dealers have into the region hasn't helped, if anything provided more death. What is the solution? I truly don't know the answer. Yes, people are being harmed, persecuted, killed, and I don't have one idea as to how to "fix" things for people in another region that is in such mayhem? I don't think our leaders do either.

[Elmergantry]

2. Do what we did to South Africa

Economic boycotts, etc..

[glowing]

9. Are you or the rest of the world ready to accept a boycott of OPEC?

Many in this country are not economically able to to handle the cost increase of an embargo.

[Elmergantry]

12. we now have plenty of oil due to fracking

We really dont need to import and as it is we only get a little from the me

[glowing]

13. But that's not how the market works, and you know that!

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Why not, you sound ready to accept the gendocide of LGBT you are arguing that nothing

should or could be done to prevent it, not even an attempt. How do you rationalize that?

[glowing]

17. Because our congress is bought! If it weren't for their sponsors,

we would have responsible gun laws and no one would be buying any assault weapons AT ALL!!! So, now you expect that this same congress is going to choose to boycott OPEC? As it is today, we have Hillary kissing the rings of Saudi Princes, and we know, absolutely know, their deplorable manner in which they treat women, LGBT, and anyone who isn't "in the family".

When the 9/11 families wanted to be able to sue Saisi Arsbia for its involvement in the attacks, President Obama spoke forcefully against a bill like that passing through congress. We know that one of the biggest reasons for going to war in Iraq was also due to oil and profits wanted on the market and to be controlled by corporations. (Before we went to the country and Iraq was its own independent run state, he wasn't playing "nice" with OPEC, he would sell barrels for less than the monopolized group wished to sell for. Also, they were a sovereign country that did not owe or base their money in the World Bank. And the country was under such strict embargoes from the first Iraq War, that they lacked basic services needed for many to survive. That embargo and lack of trade led to an estimated 1/2 million Irawi children dying because of lack of services). And today much of Northern Iraq near the Syrain border is in mayhem due to ISIS.

Libya is in free fall due to intervention as well. And like Iraq, they similarly had "state owned oil" services, a modicum of sectarian culture. (And in regards to Libya, it seems that oppositional leaders to Ghadffi placed donations into a certain Foundation, and then a certain push via State, France, wanting some of these colonial money back, and the media pushed for western military intervention). Now, ISIS and violence is destroying the Libian people. Again, influence from multi-national oil conglomerates that wanted that oil, well placed "donations", and a media, owned by a handful of powerful, wealthy people, has been the downfall of a region that hadn't previously been as much of a threat to the ME or the world.

AND you believe that our elected persons in office will stage an imposed Embargo on oil. The speculative markets for the barrel of oil could send the prices swelling to $400/ barrel. Perhaps they would for monetary compensation. On the other hand, much of the world would spin into a collective chaos and many, many, many poor people around the globe would die from starvation. Disease would ratchet upwards. People would begin "moving", becoming economic refugees into the "western" world more prevalent than ISIS is creating. By boycotting the ME, the world would enter into a depression, an economic collapse, loss of civilization, massive loss of lives (especially the innocent children already in precarious poverty situations), govts would not be able to oversee the needs of its people and many would collapse.

First order of business for the Amerixam People would to get money out of politics!!! Then we could have elected officials doing the business of the people for a change. They're attack against ME Muslim extremism and against gun violence would be two-fold... The first would be to change the direction of energy consumption to energy independence via renewable energies that don't rely on carbon based energy consumption. Not only would a direction change from dirty energy to clean energy benefit the environment and create a massive amount of jobs for people, but it would end our involvement of needing to buy oil on an open market or dealing with OPEC. Secondly, we would have real reform and gun regulations put in place to keep people like this and other nuts from being able to buy assault weapons. Basically, by treating any gun like we do owning a car, we would make the process of owning a weapon much harder for the average American to bother with. With a gun owner having to obtain training, license, insurance, safety devices to hold their weapons, limited amounts of bullets allowed to be bought, an outright ban on assault weapons, and a gun registration system that tracks the gun along with its owner along the system so that anyone's gun that ends up in the hands of someone who shouldn't own one occurs, that last owner is responsible for the subsequent deaths that follow from their weapon.

But just saying "boycott" knowing the system of govt we currently have in place, should go forward, is harmful to so many people from around the world. I am certainly NOT condoning the murder of anyone or any group. I understand people are hurting. I hurt when these mass murders occur too. And they happen all the time now. It seems it's just a matter of time before your space that you felt safe in is completely des tour by gun violence.

[CJCRANE]

3. How about quit arming the various rebel groups and the regimes that share their ideology?

More than $200 billion of weapons has been sent to radical regimes and rebels and is still being sent.

[glowing]

6. I did mention that. But I'm sure if we didn't sell them on the front end, they could get them on a

back end, black market deal. Ultimately, it is up to the people to stand up and say "enough is enough". But I'm afraid, that a "peace movement" in the sites of ISIS would just be mowed down. There is so many dynamics involved in the ME and a religion that is interpreted in a very hard-line conservative manner. I honestly don't have any idea what would help?

[lame54]

14. liberals are arming them?

[Quantess]

4. I know what the solution isn't.

The solution isn't to shhhhh shush the ugliness of islamic extremism away, or pretend it's islamophobic nonsense.

[glowing]

7. Who does that? Am I going to say 1.4 billion practicing Muslims are extremist terrorists? No.

Are there extreme elements of the religion that are harming people in the vilest of manners, absolutely!!! I've never heard a single person just pet the head of ISIL and say they are just "misunderstood". What is your point?

[Quantess]

11. My point is that many liberals

are afraid of being seen as islamophobes, and minimize muslim extremists' violence and terror. They want to shhhush it away.

When anyone dares to call it what it is, the hyper-defender of islam counters by claiming that it is unfair to blame all muslims, even though nobody said "all muslims".

[pampango]

20. So too many liberals are being 'politically correct'? "Trump pans ‘political correctness’

in post-Orlando address."

Trump: Clinton, Obama protecting terrorists to be 'politically correct'

In Statement on Orlando Shooting, Trump Says “We Can’t Afford to Be Politically Correct Anymore”

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/283298-trump-decries-political-correctness-in-post-orlando

[Quantess]

22. Yes.

But let me be clear that there are rotten individuals who become corrupted by their religion. I personally know muslims who seem like very nice, law-abiding people, but of course they aren't extremists.

Slightly religious people are not the problem. Religious fundamentalists are.

[pampango]

23. Congratulation. Trump and the NRA agree with you.

NRA: 'Political correctness' allowed for Orlando attack

[Quantess]

16. Like, what you just did.

[glowing]

19. So, disavow all Muslims en masse? That's the solution?

I'm to hate and mistrust every Muslim becaus of their religion? Do you know who aiSIS is killing the most of, other people in the countries that ISIS operate in and are also Muslim.

I don't think hate is a solution in any reaction. I don't even like that violence has to be part of the solution, but talking nicely to ISIS or other extremist Msulim groups isn't probably the best solution at this time when they are a powerful force, well armed, and are in "battle" mode.

Eventually, or even while, there needs to be a concerted effort via education and maybe economic incentive, for govts in the ME to evolve and to support a more secular govt, an insistence on humane laws that don't push women and other groups into a subservient classification, and promote education.

[Quantess]

21. Okay, this is a misunderstanding.

What I was trying to say is that the typical knee-jerk response to any criticism of Islam, or mentioning any crime committed by an individual muslim... is to claim that the criticism was directed toward ALL muslims.

Nobody said, "all muslims".

[jack_krass]

24. Solution? Simple: BAN THEIR GUNZZZ!!!!!!

Last edited Tue Jun 14, 2016, 11:44 AM - Edit history (1)

According to most people in this forum, TEH GUNZZZZZZZ along with gun humpers and ammosexuals(followjed closely by white christan males), are the root cause of every problem.everywhere.

So lets just convince those people to ban their gunz(or at least limit the number of rounds per carrtridge) and their countries will magically become like Australia in a matter of months.

[JonathanRackham]

5. I'm wondering if the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were planned.

Planned to put the region in chaos, abandon it and watch it. Do nothing. Sure US troops have died but many more locals have died as a result of localized tribal warfare.

The world sat back and watched Rwanda, Cambodia, Bosnia ..... All countries killing their own people.

In the US we tolerate violence over and over in minority communities and pay it lots of lip service.

[CJCRANE]

8. The problem now is that the ideology is spreading like wildfire. We can no longer just sit back

and watch it happen 'over there'. With mass migration and social media their reach is everywhere.

It's already starting to happen in the heart of Europe and there are signs that there are Isis cells or at least sympathizers all over America.

We are sleepwalking to disaster if we don't realize that we're in a new paradigm.

[JonathanRackham]

10. It's clashes of ideology and culture.

In the 1930s, 1940s we saw it in Europe. Rome vs Christians. Catholics vs Protestants in Ireland.

It can happen on a large scale or small scale. Countrywide or neighborhood.

People want tolerance and equality and some fear losing identity. I've seen strong ethnic based families struggle with children moving and mixing with other cultures.

My one Polish uncle married an Italian girl, end of the world for my grandma back in the 60s. Culture and tradition are strange.

[Fumesucker]

18. Sigh....