General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUnderstanding Brexit: "View from Wales: Town showered with EU cash votes to leave EU"
I strongly urge anyone who is still laboring under the misapprehension that there was organised, rational, considered thought behind the majority of Leave voters' decision to read this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale?CMP=fb_gu
To go there along a new dual carriageway and stand next to the towns new sixth form and training college, a glass and steel architectural showpiece next to its new leisure centre, a few hundred yards away from a new train station, is to stare into the abyss of the UKs failed Remain campaign.
Even Kelly, who has just finished a training session on a brand new football pitch, backtracks slightly after asking that question. Well, I know they built all this, he says, and motions his head at the impressive facilities that are all around us. But we put in more money than we get out, dont we?
snip
Are there any immigrants in Ebbw Vale? No! Hardly any. And the ones there are are all working, all contributing. Its just illogical. I just dont think people looked at the facts at all.
Its a town with almost no immigrants that voted to get the immigrants out. A town that has been showered with EU cash that no longer wants to be part of the EU. A town that holds some of the clues, perhaps, in understanding quite how spectacularly the Remain message failed to land. Theres a sense of injustice that is far greater than the sum of the facts, and the political landscape has fractured and split. Zak Kelly says that many of his friends, in what is Nye Bevans old constituency, voted Ukip.
Adding definitions for Americans:
dual carriageway: highway
sixth form: high school, basically
training college: like a vocational college
football: soccer
UKIP: fascists
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,538 posts)The irony is that the EU wsd best at making sure peripheral communities were not left behind.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)Clinton plans to do if Hillary is elected.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)have had 80% unemployment and many live a life on the dole. The heart was ripped out of them when the mines were closed under the Thatcher government in the 80s and never recovered. It's not right to criticise them for this decision, when there are a lot more educated and wealthier people elsewhere who got caught up in some bygone age nostalgia, and voted Leave.
Rex
(65,616 posts)People still suffer from their fucked up conservative policies.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Reagan did the same thing to the airline industry. I will never understand conservative logic - have to burn down the city in order to save it. Same thing happens in Red states where the governor is a regressive republican type - creates huge breeding grounds for far right nationalism.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)going to give unless new leaders in the centre emerge.
Igel
(35,383 posts)But a lot of it is heart over mind: I'm pissed off so I'm going to kick because I want people to know I'm pissed off.
Then they find they destroyed something they relied on. It felt good at the time, but they didn't really take their vote seriously. They didn't vote the issue, they voted some other issue. They sometimes don't even realize that they've substituted one question for another. (This is a common form of shoddy thinking.)
"I'll vote for Brexit to snub Cameron because he wants me to vote for it but he said X 3 years ago and I'm still mad about that."
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)First one: "I am hacked off! F*ck you all in the government!"
Second one: "Ok, seriously now lads."
They got all the kicking as you describe it out of the way in the first vote, then voted sensibly the second time.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)scare tactics from the Irish Government and the EU about all the jobs that would be lost, that would otherwise be created. "Vote YES for Jobs" !
During the time of "reflection" between Nice 1 and Nice 2, a few trinkets were added, packaged and presented as a new and improved Nice Treaty, so we weren't voting on the same thing, apparently !
There simply has to be another UK Referendum to try and sort this.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I agree, we must try.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)truths. It's easier to ignore, and tell people what they think they want to hear.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)Economically distressed former coal mining area
EU = one of the few sources of reliable inward investment
Relatively few immigrants
Heavily pro-Brexit
tblue37
(65,524 posts)REP
(21,691 posts)So there's some irony for you.
Most (not all) of the Welsh speaking areas - those with high populations of actual Welsh - voted to Remain.
Glyn Ebwy is mostly non-Welsh.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Glorfindel
(9,740 posts)Those most heavily dependent on the Federal Government hate it the most.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Same thing, just a different country.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)season but I bet there won't be now without EU funding.
Response to auntpurl (Original post)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Nationalism is not something to aspire to.
I'm sure it's fine though. Rampant nationalism and economic recession in a European country have never led to anything bad.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #18)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)These are lies fed to a gullible public by the media and craven politicians.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #21)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Which is against the rules of this website. You're new so I thought I'd tell you.
The UK is required to take a certain number of migrants under EU agreement. The number is so small as to be insignificant. Other than that small number, we're on an ISLAND and can do what we like with our borders. The border situation is about to become a LOT more complicated in Ireland, leading to likely violent unrest.
The UK has its own currency and central bank.
The UK has won all but 7% of its economic policy arguments with the EU.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #23)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Those are not migrants! That is free movement between EU countries. Jesus Christ. For god's sake. I just...it is to laugh.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)and can't fathom that something that was on fox news/dead bart/FR/etc isn't the total 100% truth.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)That one didn't last long.
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)to conservatives.
Seriously, he made a TOS there for show and no one knows why. That person was probably one of the cons there who got tired of the echo chamber conservatives created by banning liberals (to the delight of skinner I am guessing at this point).
Just like with brexit the jury voters there have buyer's remorse. Gotta love it
Rhiannon12866
(206,597 posts)We have seen worse - just today.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)And I see in ATA the new system is making it harder for you. Hope they get it straightened out soon.
Rhiannon12866
(206,597 posts)Not being able to see what was posted earlier makes it tougher, just an adjustment. But we're always here - and watching.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I believe our friend is back - just below. Thank you!
Rhiannon12866
(206,597 posts)Response to auntpurl (Reply #26)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)tarring them with that dogwhistle brush?
Yes, that's true.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #33)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I'm sure you're being deliberately coy and you actually understand full well that when the media uses the word "migrants" these days, they are dogwhistling for Syrian/Afghani/etc refugees, and the consumers of this media hear it loud and clear.
Response to auntpurl (Reply #41)
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Rex
(65,616 posts)they don't cause trouble and work very hard. I will never understand people like you.
Response to Rex (Reply #31)
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auntpurl
(4,311 posts)The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)There isn't a conservative in the US who wouldn't sell out their country for more money (See: corporations, slave labor, profit, jobs leaving the US so the very few can make more money - which cons believe someone will trickle down to them if they just work harder - like 80 hours a week, no breaks, etc)
Cameron didn't want this vote, but he promised it to gain a seat in parliament. He did it to kiss some ass believing that there was no way in hell it would happen. He was wrong (and like a coward is resigning). The UK and other countries in the Eu had their own countries and the EU was a framework they all agreed to.
But some people sucked up the propaganda and now have buyer's remorse.
If it is what the people want, that is fine with me. They must have some sovereignty or they wouldn't have been able to make this vote - right?
Response to The Straight Story (Reply #24)
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The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)Was that forced on them by the EU or the US?
The EU and the UK worked together, often to the benefit of the people of the UK (look at the film industry as one example).
You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. People were afraid of immigrants (like the idiots on the right here with trump - and yet under Obama illegal immigration is down, deportations up - you can't explain the stupidity of conservatives) and like republicans here based their decisions on unfounded fears.