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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGay cop worries first Pride could be his last after Black Lives Matter calls for ban
It was a day of extreme emotions for Const. Chuck Krangle, a Toronto police officer and a former member of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Despite working in the city for eight years, Krangle, who is openly gay, had never been to Torontos Pride parade. But this year brought his chance to attend when he was assigned to work Sundays parade.
Krangle was blown away by the spectacle, by the fun, and by the number of fellow officers taking part.
I was like woah, what a coming together, Krangle, 30, said in an interview. I had no idea that there were that many cops that march in this, from all different agencies, he said, adding that one of the highlights was speaking with Toronto police chief and parade-goer Mark Saunders.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/07/04/gay-toronto-cop-objects-to-black-lives-matters-call-for-ban.html
King_David
(14,851 posts)Pride Toronto is backing away from the promises made to Black Lives Matter Toronto during a protest that temporarily shut down the Pride Parade.
My priority yesterday was to make the parade move, Mathieu Chantelois, the executive director of Pride Toronto, told CP24 the following day on July 4, 2016. Frankly, Black Lives Matter is not going to tell us that there are no more floats anymore in the parade.
Instead, Chantelois said it is up to the community and the membership of Pride Toronto to determine whether or not the police should march in Pride.
http://www.dailyxtra.com/toronto/news-and-ideas/news/pride-toronto-backtracks-from-black-lives-matter-promises-196966
BLM Toronto's demands don't have much weight and they don't represent every single black LGBT person anyway. Pride Toronto can be inclusive (I haven't seen any evidence that they weren't) without their help. Frankly if BLM Toronto kicks a fit and decides to target the LGBT community in Toronto, then we will see where their intentions really lie.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Pride Toronto
5 hrs ·
Pride Toronto would like to thank everyone for participating in our history-making, first-ever, Pride Month. Thank you for coming to sit with us and taking part in a safe and successful Pride.
We are committed to creating a safe and inclusive festival for everyone and hearing from our whole community and stakeholders, including the most marginalized voices, on how to do so.
Pride Toronto never agreed to exclude police services from the Pride parade. Law enforcement are critical to ensuring a safe festival and parade. Toronto Police will continue to lead security planning for future parades and we thank them for their efforts. We have had, and will continue to have, discussions with the police about the nature of their involvement as parade participants.
This August, Pride Toronto will host a public Townhall to gather feedback about the 2016 festival. In advance of the meeting, we invite you to share your thoughts by contacting: cochairs@pridetoronto.com
We look forward to hearing from you,
Pride Toronto
539 Likes102 Comments93 Shares
https://www.facebook.com/PrideToronto/posts/10154254208122037
Skittles
(153,178 posts)WTF is wrong with BLM?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Much like the public.
Skittles
(153,178 posts)totally ridiculous
KMOD
(7,906 posts)The only exclusion asked for is that there not be armed, uniformed officers on parade floats in the Pride parade.
That really is not a lot to ask for, and it certainly will open dialogue over the next year as to how to address the issues of the black LGBT members.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)No. 8 - no police floats.
What's the tragedy here? They have a whole year to talk this out.
Skittles
(153,178 posts)ALRIGHTY THEN
KMOD
(7,906 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)do you agree with BLM on that as well?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Why would race be relevant in this area?
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)Isn't that the aim?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)pnwmom
(108,990 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)have had their rights violated.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)who feel they have to be in the closet.
http://www.memphisflyer.com/MemphisGaydar/archives/2016/05/20/gay-memphis-police-officer-sues-the-city-for-discrimination
MPD's LGBTQ liaison role was re-started in 2014 after a lull in participation, and Clemons was the first MPD officer named to the role after its re-launch. In that role, he's responsible for helping to build trust between the LGBTQ community and the police department. But Clemons alleges that role has backfired, causing some superior officers to discriminate against him because he is gay.
After being appointed as liaison in August 2014, Clemons claims he was harassed, reprimanded, and humiliated by other officers.
Much of the discrimination came from an officer named as Lt. Hulsey in the lawsuit. One incident says Hulsey approached Clemons on Beale on July 4th, 2014, and "yelled and degraded Officer Clemons in front of thousands of citizens at a Fourth of July event. ... Officer Clemons believes that Lt. Hulsey engaged in this behavior due to sexual stereotypes and, in particular, a belief that Officer Clemons was not sufficiently masculine, was too feminine, or due to a belief that men should only date women, not other men."
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2016/04/20/gay-d-c-cop-alleges-harassment-in-lawsuit/
Former MPD Officer Christopher Lilly charges in his lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia that he was subjected to repeated anti-gay name-calling and other forms of harassment, including the placement of AIDS stickers on his locker.
The lawsuit names the city and the MPD as defendants. It accuses the MPD, among other things, of discriminating against him on the basis of his sexual orientation and gender.
It says the harassment and discrimination against Lilly began in December 2010 when without Plaintiff Lillys knowledge or consent, his sexual orientation, homosexual, was publicized, maliciously and intentionally at the Fourth District.
Following Plaintiff Lillys outing, any officer to come into contact with Plaintiff Lilly subjected him to scrutiny, retaliation and ridicule by means of vulgar language, slandering his name and abilities to function as a police officer and questioning his abilities to serve due to his sexual orientation, the lawsuit says.
It says the alleged harassment escalated in January 2011 when after returning from duty Lilly found his locker plastered with Blair Underwood posters, forty (40) District of Columbia HIV magnets stuck to his locker and a large spurt looking puddle of unknown white liquid meant to simulate ejaculation.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Look, I'm not anti-police. I have three close friends who are current serving officers and five friends who are retired from service.
And we all agree. It isn't the police who are being discriminated against.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)We are not in disagreement here.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The fact that so many have killed people of color is considered a problem - at least by BLM. It makes giving police a spot where people are celebrating PRIDE in themselves as they are reasonably objectionable.
Behind the Aegis
(53,975 posts)Seems if you are gay and cop, some seem to think you shouldn't be allowed to consider yourself part of the LGBT community. Shame.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Of course LGBT police officers will be included.
And of course police officers in general are included.
What the black LGBT members asked for is that armed and uniformed police officers not be included on parade floats.
This brouhaha is way overkill and clearly shows that we are still a long way from understanding race relations.
Thankfully, the folks involved do get it, and dialogue has been opened.
Almost all members of the Canadian Pride group, the Canadian Police Departments, and the Canadian public view this as helpful progress.
Some DUers seem angry, but I don't put much salt into their feelings, since most of them are not Canadian, LGBT, or black.
Behind the Aegis
(53,975 posts)What I don't need is the privileged, heterosexuals, dictating how my community should or shouldn't handle itself. You are also wrong in saying "What the black LGBT members asked for is that armed and uniformed police officers not be included on parade floats. "
There it is, number 8, they aren't asking for removal of "armed and uniformed police officers not be included on parade floats".
What this shows we are still a long way from understanding issues of sexual orientation.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)May I ask why that angers you so very much?
I always try to learn by listening. But I truly don't understand the ire here.
I'm not hearing the same ire from my real life gay friends, or police friends.
But I truly would like to listen and learn as to where your anger is coming from.
Behind the Aegis
(53,975 posts)It is very simple. And, so we are perfectly clear, it isn't the single issue of the police floats, it is the condescending attitude from privileged persons telling us how our community shouldn't and should be.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and reiterate your point, the attitude we are receiving after we've already been slapped in the face is adding insult to injury.
Behind the Aegis
(53,975 posts)That's why we are hearing about "some of my best friends" and other trite expressions, which when used against our community, are often excused and dismissed as us being "too sensitive and angry."
KMOD
(7,906 posts)for exemplary service in his handling of a case involving a male domestic abuse victim. I would be more than happy to provide a link to you, as I am very proud of him.
Behind the Aegis
(53,975 posts)What the hell does this have to do with anything?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)condescending privileged people. That's just ridiculous.
Behind the Aegis
(53,975 posts)The "condescending privileged people" aren't African-American. You do realize there are more issues of diversity than ethnicity and race, right?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is decrying things that they are espousing in their own posts.
They elected themselves "Speaker of all black people".
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That isn't condescending at *all*. /s
KMOD
(7,906 posts)http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/black-lives-matter-is-dramatic-unsettling-and-inconvenient-thats-the-point/article30758467/
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/05/single-float-for-police-might-be-compromise-teitel.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/black-lives-pride-1.3665955
kevinbgoode1
(153 posts)so the exclusion demand isn't just about cops in general, or even gay cops, but black cops too.
yardwork
(61,698 posts)It is very, very important that uniformed police officers march openly in gay pride parades. Their doing so was an incredible step forward.
I won't go into all the reasons for this. If you are interested, please do some reading.
JanMichael
(24,890 posts)"In the following weeks, Judge Davies began legal proceedings against Governor Faubus, and President Dwight D. Eisenhower attempted to persuade Faubus to remove the National Guard and let the Little Rock Nine enter the school.
Davies ordered the Guard removed on September 20, and the Little Rock Police Department took over to maintain order.
The police escorted the nine African-American students into the school on September 23, through an angry mob of some 1,000 white protesters gathered outside.
Amidst ensuing rioting, the police removed the nine students.
On September 24, President Eisenhower sent in 1,200 members of the U.S. Armys 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and placed them in charge of the 10,000 National Guardsmen on duty. Escorted by the troops, the Little Rock Nine attended their first full day of classes on September 25."
I'd rather have the 101st, or those Little Rock cops, in any parade that supported basic human rights. Of course once the melee was over the racist asshats got their way again. But man it was awesome seeing those 101st airborne soldiers back down the nasty pieces of shit. They weren't about to do shit with those guys there.
An interesting bit about Eisenhower:
"Eisenhowers decision surprised many Americans. He did not favor integration. Born in 1890, he grew up in a segregated society and served for more than 30 years in a segregated army. Not long after the Brown decision, he remarked, You cant change peoples hearts merely by laws. He also told reporters that he could not imagine a situation in which he would use federal troops to enforce integration. Yet after watching events in Little Rock, he ordered federal troops to the city to enforce the law. He told the American people: Our personal opinions about the [Brown] decision have no bearing on the matter of enforcement. . . . Mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.[7]
The editors of the New York Amsterdam News, a newspaper geared toward the African American community, said of the Presidents decision:
It is not too difficult for a man to stand up and fight for a cause with which he himself believes to be right. But it is quite another thing for a man to stand up and fight for a cause with which he himself does not agree but which he feels it is his duty to uphold. President Eisenhower is a battle-scarred veteran of many a campaign who has been hailed from one end of the world to the other. But we submit that his victory over himself at Little Rock was indeed his finest hour.[8]"
cwydro
(51,308 posts)BLM has overreached on this one.
Democat
(11,617 posts)They could demand that it becomes a BLM parade instead.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It it fascinating to see the targets that BLM chooses.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=3 color=#009999]Whether they be black, white, brown, or any other skin color.
I also support the ALL the community regardless of whether they be civilian, law enforcement, or military.
And I believe they should ALL be represented, and that there should be room for a law-enforcement float if LGBTQ Law enforcement want one.
Finally, I believe this divisiveness is harmful. I fully understand that BLM is speaking out for people who have been mistreated by the police constantly, and I appreciate their commitment for standing up for them. However, I feel this particular demand (#8) is mistaken. and only helps those who want to pit one LGBTQ person against one and another.
I believe the ultimate goals of both pride and BLM would better be served through inclusion. LGBTQ police are still LGBTQ and are important for full LGBTQ acceptance. Further, having voices in law enforcement helps create the reforms needed to end the violence against the black community. Rather than exclude, it seems to me banding together would help everyone.
Simply put, I feel we are all stronger together than we ever will be apart.
These are my own opinions, and I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself.[/font]
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,436 posts)Love your anime avatar too (anime fan here)!
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 6, 2016, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999][center]Otaku Pride![/font]
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Chemisse
(30,816 posts)Toronto had one group holding another group's event hostage and making demands to release it.
Did BLM even talk to the Pride organizers about its concerns? Can't they find a different way to get publicity about the plight of black LGTB?
I just don't like these strong-arm tactics that BLM has been engaging in. They had a huge groundswell of support following the shootings in Ferguson and elsewhere. But their leaders have brought them down a path that marginalizes the group, turns off many supporters, and provides more fuel for racists.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)So that they could have this action.
Remember, they were asked to be one of the honored guests of the parade.
romanic
(2,841 posts)If BLM weren't invited to the Pride parade then I would give them that and understand why they demanded inclusivity.
But since they were invited as honorary guests, I take thier demands less seriously since being invited to the parade showed the event was being inclusive to black LGBTers. IMO they just wanted to halt the parade for attention and to take a swipe at police publicly.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It seems like the law enforcement one in particular was the most controversial of those. The other demands would probably have been agreed to easily in a meeting ahead of time.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)Let the LBGT community halt the next BLM protest.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Certainly an issue that needs addressing.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Apparently they have descended to the "every cop is an evil oppressor pig who should be shot" level.
anoNY42
(670 posts)BLM will allow gay native americans, gay construction workers, gay bikers, or any other members of the Village People from bring on floats as well.
yardwork
(61,698 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)the problem of police violence/corruption/mistreatment is very serious.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)They think *only* heterosexual black lives matter. Truth is, all lives matter.
ashtonelijah
(340 posts)Waltz in and try to tell LGBT people how to do things. Black Lives Matter protesters decided, that mere weeks after 49 gay people and their friends were shot dead in a club, and after which dozens were saved by law enforcement, that they would use their invitation to a gay pride parade to stage a hissy fit in the midst of it, shut down the parade, and give a list of demands to LGBT people -- part of which was that law enforcement (the guys who came to our rescue just weeks ago, some of whom are LGBT) not be allowed a float in the parade.
And BLM decided to do this, after having done nothing substantive for the cause of gay rights. They weren't even wearing any rainbows or anything to show support of pride. All they cared about was their own agenda, the memory of dead LGBT people in Orlando and the pride which their lives stood for be damned. Intersectionality? That was the moment you were invited as honored guests to take part in a pride parade, despite having really done nothing to deserve the honor. And you used it to insult and attempt to hold hostage those who extended that to you.
And you say, oh, LGBT law enforcement can be there -- just not as law enforcement. You still have to keep that part of yourself closeted at gay pride events, because BLM demands it.
Quite frankly, this group of BLM folks can go to hell. Screw them and their arrogant, homophobic, authoritarian attempt to take over OUR pride event.
I have defended BLM for years. And I'm done with it. And I'm done with them. Between this and their repeated insults hurled at civil rights heroes like John Lewis, I'm just done.
cagefreesoylentgreen
(838 posts)were Latinos. This is not something I've been seeing BLM bring up either, except in the context of white supremacy or some nonsense that is inapplicable and inappropriate to what happened.